Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CHECKERS on May 29, 2007, 09:46:22 AM
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http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1999
$5,000,000 for fiscal year 2008 and $10,000,000 for each fiscal year thereafter.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
April 23, 2007
Mr. HINOJOSA (for himself and Mr. RENZI) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services
A BILL
To authorize appropriations for assistance for the National Council of La Raza and the Raza Development Fund.
110th CONGRESS - 1st Session
H. R. 1999
To authorize appropriations for assistance for the National Council of La Raza and the Raza Development Fund.
:mad:
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Hispanic isn't a race.
...this just in.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hispanic isn't a race.
...this just in.
but if put up sign telling people to order a sandwich in english you are racist? :confused:
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Originally posted by john9001
but if put up sign telling people to order a sandwich in english you are racist? :confused:
I certainly don't think so.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hispanic isn't a race.
...this just in.
Merriam Webster
Race
noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza
1 : a breeding stock of animals
2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
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I don't consider the English to be a race either.
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I will alert Merriam Webster, and the organization that calls itself (in Spanish) The Race.
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Be sure to alert the US census bureau as well.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/cenbr01-1.pdf
Hispanics may be of any race.
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So to what race does La Raza refer in it's name?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So to what race does La Raza refer in it's name?
:lol
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So to what race does La Raza refer in it's name?
This is actually getting funnier as it grows...
*Yo Sandy, pass another Heini, please* :rofl :aok
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Did you guys notice that this bill was authored by a Democrat outta Texas???
I did'nt think they had those. Anyway, take some time and go to La Raza's website, Here: http://www.nclr.org/
To me, they seem well funded, well organized, and motivated. Enough to put up candidates for national office. Who will vote for the best interests' of illegal immigrants, or Mexican Nationals.
To me, It seems like our Gov't. has seen fit to give money to a Special Interest group.
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Aztlan
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Did you guys notice that this bill was authored by a Democrat outta Texas???
I did'nt think they had those.
To me, It seems like our Gov't. has seen fit to give money to a Special Interest group.
Who are you Rip Vanwinkle? ;)
Texas is full of Democrats, always has been.
Just like California is even though you have had Ahnold and Reagan for Gov's.
Our govt is giving money to special interest groups?? No kidding? And all this time I thought our taxes went to making life safer and better for Americans.
:noid
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Anyone who puts a hyphen before American needs to be kicked out of this country and sent to the place they think is so important that they put it before American.
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As an Anglo-American, I am offended. ;)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So to what race does La Raza refer in it's name?
You'll have to ask them.
EDIT... no, they've already answered this question.
The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.
source (http://www.nclr.org/content/faqs/detail/39736/)
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Originally posted by Shifty
And all this time I thought our taxes went to making life safer and better for Americans.
:noid
It's my hope that our taxes can continue to make life safer and better for Iraqis and other people suffering from oppressive governments.
/sarcasm
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Originally posted by Sandman
As an Anglo-American, I am offended. ;)
You don't like England? England came from the word Angloland. But the Anglo, Saxon and Jute were from Scandinavia before they invaded England. King Arthur was Celtic, and was defending the island from the Scandinavian invaders.
The Celt were originally from Gaul (France), but the Romans forced them to the Island which was inhabited by Briton and Pict.
The Britons were thin and tall with dark hair and blue eyes. The Pict were short and stocky with dark hair and dark eyes (the word Pict meant tattooed people). The Celt, Roman and Briton forced the Pict into Scotland.
P.S. I am of Celtic and Apache descent, but I am %100 American.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'll have to ask them.
EDIT... no, they've already answered this question.
source (http://www.nclr.org/content/faqs/detail/39736/)
And here is an excellent short essay from a professor at UCLA.
What does "Raza" mean and where does it come from?
It has often been said that the practice of Chicanos to refer to the overall Mexican American population as "Raza" is inherently racist. This is because the translation of this term into English removes its philosophical baggage and makes it look as if Mexican Americans are the race, similarly to Nazi claims that the "Arian" was the race that should inherit Earth.
Understanding how this term originated is important to know its meaning. One must be aware that the term is originally from México and it was first promoted by José Vasconcelos, a respected and venerated Mexican intellectual (1881-1959). It was given shape in his book La Raza Cósmica (1948) and it was introduced as a response, based on "scientific" evidence then available as well as Catholic theology. I have translated parts of the prologue of the second edition and parts of the first chapter where the philosophy is defined.
In the early 1900's Mexican intellectuals were trying to come up with an identity for the Mexican people during a time of social upheaval. This social change was being fueled by two revolutionary changes in thought: Marx and Engels "Das Kapital" and C. Darwin's "Theory of Evolution of the Species." The first one challenged the position of the moneyed class (whether old or new money) while the second challenged the position of mankind itself in the general scheme of things and went against biblical teaching.
The most successful of them, José Vasconcelos, came up with a kooky concept where he claimed that the indigenous people of America had had their day in the sun but their mixture with the "better" Europeans gave rise to a new race, the mestizo. (In those days, it was common to divide Homo Sapiens into four races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Amerindian. Thrown as evidence, he cited the lost continent of Atlantis.) He called this new race "La raza Cósmica" and argued that it would be the one that would show "the way" to the rest of the world. It is a very catchy and feel-good concept. Over the years, that concept was semi-officially promoted by the Mexican government to give "atole con el dedo" to the population (that is where the custom of calling "Día de la Raza" to "Columbus Day" came from).
The concept was also taken by the Chicano activists (some founded "La Raza Unida Party," go see the PBS series "Chicano" for more information. A good bibliography can be found in its Web site.) but I don't think that any of them had bothered to read Vasconcelos' book. To this day, there are some who worship this concept together with the very nice slogan that Vasconcelos devised for the Universidad Autónoma Nacional de México (he was one of the co-founder of this most recent incarnation of the oldest University in the Americas): "Por mi Raza hablará el Espiritú." Given Vasconcelos' zeal for the Catholic religion, it would not surprise me that he had in mind the Spirit that is part of the Holy Trinity.
Source (http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~urrutia/chicano/RazaCosmicaOpinion.html)
Here is another article that expands on what Sandman had posted.
Is The Phrase "La Raza" Racist? (http://www.lasculturas.com/aa/aa031200a.htm)
ack-ack
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Latinos are not racist, they just don't like Anglos.:rolleyes:
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Latinos are not racist, they just don't like Anglos.
Anglos had blonde hair and brown eyes. So if your a Caucasian with blue eyes, or have brown hair, your alright?
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Spanish Translation of raza
f.
(de personas) race, ancestry
(de los animales) breed
Idioms:
de pura raza
(caballos) thoroughbred
(perros) pedigreed
La raza
Mexicans or Mexican Americans (as a group)
Spanish Translation of People:
(nation) pueblo
the American people: el pueblo norteamericano
(persons) gente f.
country people: gente del campo
(in definite numbers) personas
only about ten people came: sólo vinieron unas diez personas
(citizens) ciudadanos
(subordinates) gente, empleados
(inhabitants) gente, personas, habitantes m.
a city with several million people: una ciudad de varios millones de habitantes
(family) familia
(ancestors) antepasados
(human beings) personas, seres humanos
they're people, not animals: son personas, no bestias
(beings) seres m.
the furry little people of the woods: los pequeños seres peludos del bosque
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The term Raza means Race.
Are there races in the human species? After all, the characteristics of most animal races are strictly genetic, while human races have been marked by nongenetic, cultural attributes that have very much affected their overt characteristics. Performance in human activities is influenced not only by the genotype but also by culturally acquired attitudes -- Ernst Mayer 2002
The term raza translates as race, not people: race is not specifically genetic.
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The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) – is the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States – works to improve opportunities for Hispanic Americans.
isn't this org quite a bit like the NAACP?
its pretty contorted reasoning to say that in 2007, "La Raza" means "a cosmic mixture of many races" when they advocate for Hispanics only.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
its pretty contorted reasoning to say that in 2007, "La Raza" means "a cosmic mixture of many races" when they advocate for Hispanics only.
Hispanics may be of ANY race. (http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/cenbr01-1.pdf)
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Originally posted by Sandman
The government says so, so it is.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hispanics may be of ANY race
so i can be a Hispanic? oh boy, now i can get that govt grant to start my business.:D
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My Feelings On This:
(http://www.grimsreapers.com/images/adios.jpg)
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its pretty contorted reasoning to say that in 2007, "La Raza" means "a cosmic mixture of many races" when they advocate for Hispanics only.
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Hispanics may be of ANY race. - Sandman
i understand the distinction btw the terms, Sandman. However, the name of the oganization is not "The Any Race". The name they chose for themselves is "The Race." And they advocate for only one group: Hispanics.
they are just like the NAACP, which advocates for only one group. (dont try to tell me that the NAACP is made up of the black race, or i will filet you like a cheap cut of chinese dogmeat, starting with that shoulder) ;)
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Originally posted by john9001
so i can be a Hispanic? oh boy, now i can get that govt grant to start my business.:D
Unless you're from a country or ethnic backround that has a Spanish culture, you don't qualify.
Hispanic: Persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
Hispanic is also not a race but an ethnic backround. As Sandman pointed out, Hispanics can be of many races. There are Hispanics that are black, Asian and caucasion.
I think Richard L. Vasquez said it best when he wrote in his essay:
When La Raza is mentioned, it speaks of the fact that my children can have blue or brown eyes, thin or wide eyes, pale skin or the darkest skin. The hair may vary from kinky to straight. We dance to the rhythms of many nations. La Raza is the first unique creation of the colonial Americas. It is about inclusion, not exclusion.
And as he also pointed out in his essay, any term can be misused by zealots and there are some movements within the Latino community that are guilty of this and preach seperation. But they hardly speak for the majority of us, contrary to what most of you guys think.
On the other hand, there is some irony in the term. Back during the early part of the Spanish Conquista, "Por La Raza" was a termed used by the Church in its very harsh almost genocidal practices towards the native population. The practices of slavery and force indoctrination into the Church was done "Por La Raza". The systematic torture and killings by the Spaniards was done "Por La Raza".
ack-ack
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Well, my family has been here since before there WAS a United States....
One of my ancestors was a signatory of the US Constitution....
Ever since the beginning, my family has served this country....
Fought in every war, shed our blood, and sometimes died...
I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, That simple thing has value beyond measure..
And NOW, they are going to sell my birthright, and my childrens birthright,
For five thousand F*#King DOLLARS.....
If you people are THAT STUPID, THEN YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET!!!!
OG
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Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
Well, my family has been here since before there WAS a United States....
One of my ancestors was a signatory of the US Constitution....
Ever since the beginning, my family has served this country....
Fought in every war, shed our blood, and sometimes died...
I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, That simple thing has value beyond measure..
And NOW, they are going to sell my birthright, and my childrens birthright,
For five thousand F*#King DOLLARS.....
If you people are THAT STUPID, THEN YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET!!!!
OG
What a compelling argument. :rolleyes:
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whether or not La Raza is a racist organization, or has racist elements, it is a special interest organization that exists to advocate for Hispanics, and to focus their political power.
Whether or not the NAACP is a racist org, or has racist elements in it, it exists to advocate for blacks, and to focus their political power.
the liberal politician wants to give American tax dollars to fund La Raza. i imagine that he expects votes from them in return, which is how the game is played in American politics.
I think what CHECKERS may have been trying to point out is that it seems improper to fund these groups with our tax dollars.
what would you think about funding a white organization like that? - one that exists to advocate for whites? Or gay advocacy groups for LGTB people? Or funding a Muslim advocacy group? and so on...
where did all the plain old Americans go? why should we have to pay for a special interest group with tax dollars? you've got to give me a better reason than: "so we can get democrats elected."
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Isn't buying votes illegal?
Does this mean Neo-Nazi groups will start getting our tax money too?
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Originally posted by Xargos
Isn't buying votes illegal?
somebody tell the communist left (see Comrade Clintion) as they have been doing it through entitlement programs for years ...
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Sandman - about that chinese dogmeat comment i made earlier... i apologize... that was a little much. i thought it was funny at the time.
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What do they need money from the government for? Why should non members' tax money go to an ethnic special interest org's pockets?
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unless you're from a country or ethnic backround that has a Spanish culture, you don't qualify.
Hispanic: Persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
well, florida is almost like cuba.
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Originally posted by moot
What do they need money from the government for? Why should non members' tax money go to an ethnic special interest org's pockets?
so they can buy donks and have la virgen de gaudalupe airbrushed on the hood. sheesh don't you know anything?
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Originally posted by john9001
well, florida is almost like cuba.
I have news for you, we're buying lots of property in northern florida, gladly paying $5000.00 + per acre and getting ready to fund another raul alarcon radio station so we can have our loud weekend parties. have you considered georgia or alabama yet? remember the name of the state and just exactly who the european discoverers were and where they came from. bonus question, what was their expeditionary point of embarkation?
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so people from spain are hispanic too? or not?
Do we have a country called hispain? If not...... and as ack ack says.. they are several countries regardless of race... then what is the official list and who made it?
What are the official countries that being from makes you hispanic? what if any of your relatives ever came from there?
Is not "the people" the same as "the race" in all practical terms... both try to seperate a group of people based on... based on what? if there is no cultural or racial components then it is nothing. Is a negro born here who has distant relatives born in cuba a "hispanic"?
The point is... there is a group... "the people" or "the race" who want special treatment based on cultural and racial differences.
lazs
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the term hispanic should apply to people from the island of hispañola which today includes the nations of haiti and the dominican republic. I'm not sure where the term hispanic or for that matter latino came from or why it's applied across the board for spanish speaking people.
I know that amongst the spanish speaking communities we refer to each other as being nicaraguan, mexican, honduran etc. and there are some pretty significant cultural differences between the varied nationalities just as there are cultural differences between the regions within the United States.
the term hispanic is probably the invention of some politically correct pinhead who was looking for a replcement for the word spic which was more commonly applied prior to the advent of the term hispanic. hispanic is now often applied in the same context which spic was.
around here some of the crackers refer to us as oyes, queueballs and julios
but never to our faces, unless as sometimes happens in my case they confuse me with being one of you. I get a big kick out hearing a person make a derogatory statement about the @$%&$*@! julios in my presence then I'll turn and address a co-worker in spanish.
personally I could care less what you choose to call people but if you intend to offend any term will do.
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If you think you should have more rights or get special treatment just because of your race, then you are a racist.
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personally I could care less what you choose to call people but if you intend to offend any term will do. - Storch
i have to say, i truely like Cuban people. I even bought Ry Cooder's Buena Vista Social Club movie on DVD. :) I love the salsa. Cubans i know are go-getters. and i love the women. its a great culture. some of the Marielitos gave us a pain in the neck, but they are not representative at all. I'm just waiting for things to change over there so I can go over and check it out.
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so people from spain are "hispanics"?
I have been learning spanish for a while now.... I am not in the least fluent but...
what does "gente" mean?
lazs
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When I was staying in Spain back in the early 1970s, I was warned not to speak any mexican-Spanish because I might get my throat slit.
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Originally posted by moot
What do they need money from the government for? Why should non members' tax money go to an ethnic special interest org's pockets?
When a Nation of Laws Decides to Selectively Enforce Those Laws for Political and Corporate Gains This is the End Result, Legal Americans Pay ……:mad:
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Sandman - about that chinese dogmeat comment i made earlier... i apologize... that was a little much. i thought it was funny at the time.
It was worth a chuckle.... think nothing of it.
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Storchinet you don't look like that :
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Julio_Iglesias.jpg/250px-Julio_Iglesias.jpg)
??
;)
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gente means people
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no I look like me. well, at least to me I do. :D
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so if gente means people... la raza means the race? Let's face it... to many, if not the vast majority, of mexicans here.... hispanic is a race.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
so if gente means people... la raza means the race? Let's face it... to many, if not the vast majority, of mexicans here.... hispanic is a race.
lazs
Actually, the majority of Mexicans are caucasians. There are blacks that are Hispanic, there are even Asians that are Hispanic. I don't know how to explain this to make it more clear. Ethnic backround does not equal racial backround.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by storch
the term hispanic should apply to people from the island of hispañola which today includes the nations of haiti and the dominican republic. I'm not sure where the term hispanic or for that matter latino came from or why it's applied across the board for spanish speaking people.
Hispania was the Roman term for the Iberian Peninsula. (Hispania is a Latin term and Iberia is a Greek term)
Any culture that traces its roots to Spain or Portugal would be an Hispanic culture.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Actually, the majority of Mexicans are caucasians. There are blacks that are Hispanic, there are even Asians that are Hispanic. I don't know how to explain this to make it more clear. Ethnic backround does not equal racial backround.
ack-ack
in your mind , but not theirs.
the bigger question is, who will take over the USA? the hispanics or the muslims. it should be a interesting fight.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Hispania was the Roman term for the Iberian Peninsula. (Hispania is a Latin term and Iberia is a Greek term)
Any culture that traces its roots to Spain or Portugal would be an Hispanic culture.
thank you for clearing that up for me. I thought portugal and spain were part of gaul thus portus gallus= portugal the port of gaul. with your explanation the term hispanic would indeed make sense.
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The country's name was derived from the Roman city of Portus Cale, now Porto.
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I'd be interested in seeing a source for that. would you post one?
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Originally posted by john9001
in your mind , but not theirs.
the bigger question is, who will take over the USA? the hispanics or the muslims. it should be a interesting fight.
...
ack-ack
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I'm probably wrong, but from what i understand, people from spain are spanish, and not hispanic..
The places that the conquistadors occupied and or conquered where there was a mixing of the blood produced hispanics.
This spanish kid i knew in high school said sangre azul, which meant something like blue blood, or pure blood, and sangre de conquistadors, which means blood of the conquistadors, or i think conquerors.
I'm not spanish or hispanic, i'm just repeating what i was told a while ago.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Any culture that traces its roots to Spain or Portugal would be an Hispanic culture.
Portugal adopted the word Lusitanic for the same purposes.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by lazs2
so people from spain are "hispanics"?
I have been learning spanish for a while now.... I am not in the least fluent but...
what does "gente" mean?
lazs
Don't know about spanish but in portuguese it means people.
Mark
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Originally posted by Sandman
You'll have to ask them.
EDIT... no, they've already answered this question.
source (http://www.nclr.org/content/faqs/detail/39736/)
La Raza translated by any Spanish to English dictionary I can find means The Race. To call this a mistranslation is just plain wrong if not an outright lie.
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Originally posted by storch
I'd be interested in seeing a source for that. would you post one?
I googled Portus Cali and the first link is Answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-portugal)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Portugal adopted the word Lusitanic for the same purposes.
ack-ack
I thought Lusitanic meant: relating to the bottom of the sea, esp. just off the southern Irish coast.
Lusitania was a substate of the Roman state of Hispania.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I googled Portus Cali and the first link is Answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-portugal)
thanks for the linky, interesting read.
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Hispania, the name given by the Romans to the peninsula, was a strictly geographic label without specific cultural or political connotation. The peninsula had always been divided into geographic and ethno-cultural regions which differed greatly from each other. The most advanced of the ancient Hispanic communities was the kingdom of Tartessos in the south, covering roughly the modern region of western Andalusia. When first encountered by Greek traders, Tartesian society was centered in a number of fairly large cities and had a well developed economy based on agriculture, cattle-raising, fishing, commerce, and mining. Its technology was comparatively sophisticated, as evidenced in its mining, shipbuilding, irrigation, and ox drawn plows. The society was highly stratified, dominated by warrior and priestly castes and a small class of large landholders and wealthy merchants. Much of its land cultivation and cattle production was undertaken on the large estates owned by the upper classes, and the bulk of the population were peasants with few rights. In general, Tartessos was not greatly dissimilar to other relatively advanced urbanized societies of the Mediterranean. It was governed by a despotic monarchy legitimized by divine myth and thaumaturgy. The Tartessian state reached its maximum strength in the late seventh and any sixth centuries B.C., dominating the southern part of the peninsula and wielding influence in the affairs of the west Mediterranean. By the fifth century it had fallen under Carthaginian domination, whence it later passed to Roman rule.
http://libro.uca.edu/payne1/payne1.htm
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I think you guys are missing the point.. they call themselves the race.
The nazis called themselves a race just like the AB does now.. they were not of any particular race but...
All the worst of racism is there. What matters the detail? "the race" thinks it is a race and it acts out it's racist ideals based on that.
It is a minor detail that they are wrong... the root of the thing is that they think and act as if they were a race and they act on racist principles.
The effect is a race of racists.
lazs
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Are hispanics an endangered species all of a sudden?
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here is a slightly different take the issue:
"La Raza" (The Race) is a broad term which refers to those whose ancestry is indigenous to the area of Mexico (or "Aztlan"). MEChA members refer to themselves as "La Raza" or "Raza," but the term itself is used to indicate camaraderie among those in different organizations with the same objectives. There are a number of organizations who consider themselves to be La Raza.
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
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So in reality their a terrorist group...how quaint.
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Check out aztlan.net (http://www.aztlan.net) if you want to see what this is all really about and see who we are dealing with during this invasion.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought Lusitanic meant: relating to the bottom of the sea, esp. just off the southern Irish coast.
Lusitania was a substate of the Roman state of Hispania.
Portugal adopted the word Lusitanic for the same purposes (in reference to the former Roman province of Lusitania, which was a part Hispania; ultimately, regarding to the Lusitanians, one of the first Indo-European tribes to settle Europe).
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Check out aztlan.net (http://www.aztlan.net) if you want to see what this is all really about and see who we are dealing with during this invasion.
The Voice of Aztlan is hardly the voice of the Hispanic people. That site is run by an extremist group that is actually communist in their political beliefs. It is also listed on the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.
ack-ack
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Portugal adopted the word Lusitanic for the same purposes (in reference to the former Roman province of Lusitania, which was a part Hispania; ultimately, regarding to the Lusitanians, one of the first Indo-European tribes to settle Europe).
ack-ack
ack-ack is right.
The west, called Lusitania by the Romans, is set apart from the northern and central areas by watersheds. The Lusitanians had a better-developed agrarian culture than was to be found elsewhere save in the sophisticated south and east. More prosperous than the groups of the center and north, their society was also more sharply divided by class. During antiquity, this western area was largely ignored by the outer world and by the advanced eastern and southern cultures. It had few metals, the principal commercial attraction of the peninsula.
http://libro.uca.edu/payne1/payne1.htm