Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on May 29, 2007, 10:09:51 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276252,00.html
Normally this type of rhetoric doesn't really phase me, but for some reason, this gave me chills. Hopefully it's nothing.
Realistically, and replying with an educated and serious answer, if and when we are hit on our home soil again, how will it happen?
I guess thats the million dollar question, right? First off, I don't think there will be any more attempted hijacking of aircraft in flight in the foreseeable(sp) future. After 9/11, I just think there are too many people who would be willing to fight on the aircraft. However, that doesn't mean we won't see some type of attempted attack on aircraft using missiles during flight....
I dunno...Before I even go on, you tell me. Is this an appropriate discussion to have on this board? I am interested in everyone's opinions, however, I dont want to cross any lines.
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The word you're looking for is 'rhetoric'. They've been pumping out 'chilling' warnings like that for year. Letting it be a rudder to your life is giving terrorists exactly what they want.
(yawn) The principles this country is founded on has withstood the threat of nazis, communism, the legion of doom, Islamic fundamentalism, and more just fine. Unfortunately, Walt Kelley nailed it when he wrote "We have met the enemy, and he is us." The "us" in this case are the panicked masses who have supported the dismemberment of the constitution to gain some temporary "safety" from a group of funny dressers who had a lucky hit 6 years ago and have been rolling snake eyes ever since.
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BTW, Cav58d, the above isn't a direct response to your question, and I don't think you're one of the appeasers who I'm criticizing, it just seems like a natural lead-in to something I've been thinking about more and more lately, hope it's a constructive addition to the conversation and not a hijack.
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I don't let it effect/affect (whatever) my life. Once, after 9/11 on New Years Eve I was hesitant about going into Manhattan, however, I said "F" that, and haven't even considered changing plans or avoiding places since. Might as well kill me if I were going to live like that.
And this is most likely just some "we want to scare you propoganda". Quit frankly, this is prolly their only capability right now in regards to our home soil. However, as we have heard in the past. We have to be right 100% of the time. They only have to be right once. I'm twenty three years old. I would be completely amazed that I live the rest of my life and never experience another attack on American soil. With persistance, the odds are in their favor that they will eventually suceed. (whether that is next week, or 10 years from now).
I'm just curious as to what are the realistic possibalites (ugh my spelling sucks).
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They've got a converse 100%/once rule over their head too.
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True. =). I like the way you think sir!
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The word you're looking for is 'rhetoric'. They've been pumping out 'chilling' warnings like that for year. Letting it be a rudder to your life is giving terrorists exactly what they want.
(yawn) The principles this country is founded on has withstood the threat of nazis, communism, the legion of doom, Islamic fundamentalism, and more just fine. Unfortunately, Walt Kelley nailed it when he wrote "We have met the enemy, and he is us." The "us" in this case are the panicked masses who have supported the dismemberment of the constitution to gain some temporary "safety" from a group of funny dressers who had a lucky hit 6 years ago and have been rolling snake eyes ever since.
hear hear! the way I see it, a free society is, by it's very nature, vulnerable. I think Ben Franklin said it best, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." We can't 100% stop them from attacking us, what we need to do is to try to make them not WANT to attack us. Reagan agreed too, read my sig...
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Originally posted by cav58d
I'm just curious as to what are the realistic possibalites (ugh my spelling sucks).
I'd say the probability of another attack on U.S. soil is 100%.
Now, the question is... are we going to sacrifice our country trying to avoid it?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'd say the probability of another attack on U.S. soil is 100%.
Now, the question is... are we going to sacrifice our country trying to avoid it?
I agree.....
The intent of this post though was to try and discuss how the attack could be delivered and carried out....But I question whether you can even try and single it down because the possibilties are really infinite.
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Well... IMHO, the Al Qaeda are a bunch of short sighted morons.
There are far FAR better targets than the WTC or Pentagon.
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Imagine a coordinated Monday morning mass suicide attack on elementary schools across the nation. Talk about a plethora of ripe, juicy, undefended targets.
As far as our rights are concerned, when an intelligent enemy learns to use our constitution to destroy us, then that constitution is worthless.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Imagine a coordinated Monday morning mass suicide attack on elementary schools across the nation. Talk about a plethora of ripe, juicy, undefended targets.
As far as our rights are concerned, when an intelligent enemy learns to use our constitution to destroy us, then that constitution is worthless.
what you posit is indeed frightening, but let me ask you this... Is America "The land of the free" or is it "the land of the safe"?
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Check out this GARBAGE (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=82887)
I'm not so bent about the licenses as I am about the transponder idea. I wouldn't mind the licenses because I've seen people do some incredibly stupid **** out on the water, but there is no way in hell I would carry a transponder against my own will. Piss on that idea.
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<<"Anything to improve our coast and help everybody out, we need to do it. We just have to get control over this. I think it would be a good idea," said Singleton>>
that says it all, "We just have to get control", thats what is all about control, everyone wants control.
for your own good, of course.
"land of the free, home of the brave" are just words in a song now.
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I would hope the US has a covert group of agents that goes out at night, snatches fools like the jerk making video threats, and makes those people dissapear into the night, never heard from again. :D
Yeah yeah, it's not the "American Way", or is it?
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I feel the same as bsd and sandie that I don't care what the threat... If we have to become a police state to stay "safe" it is not worth it.
I even think all the measures at airports are too much.
as to the question? I think that it will be a dirty bomb in a blue city and that there will be a lot less blue voters after that. They won't waste a bomb on anything short of a filthy crowded city.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
as to the question? I think that it will be a dirty bomb in a blue city and that there will be a lot less blue voters after that. They won't waste a bomb on anything short of a filthy crowded city.
lazs
Agreed. It will most likely be an East coast city, like New York, Washington D.C. or Boston.
And its not a matter of if, its a matter of when.
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yep.. all blue cities full of loafer wearing, taxi riding, metrosexuals voting for socialism and telling us that if we leave the islamofacists alone.. they will leave us alone.
lazs
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If we have to become a police state to stay "safe" it is not worth it.
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Anyway you slice it, your world is going to deteriorate.
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If these terrorists, so called, want to start doing real damage on US soil, they should start giving illegal aliens free SUVs full of beer.
Illegal aliens kill an average of 12 innocent Americans on US soil every day, 4,380 per year. That's 21,900 dead US citizens on US soil since Sept. 11, 2001.
Illegals are more dangerous to you and I than mid east terrorists are. Heck even Aspirin is a more deadly threat to Joe & Jane US citizen, 7,600 related deaths per year
These "terrorists" cant even kill as many Americans on US soil as "job seekers" or aspirin... they should be embarrassed.
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Mr. President, why is aspirin still at large?
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Just Guessing, but I'd say the next one will be a loosly coordinated gunman attack. Having seen what the VaTech nutburger accomplished a few jackholes with guns can really put the scare in us. Add that to Yeager's elementary school idea and... yikes, that makes me sad.
Sort of Beslanx10 or something to that effect.
-Sik
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm curious as to how you feel we should make them want to leave us alone.
Originally posted by bsdaddict
We can't 100% stop them from attacking us, what we need to do is to try to make them not WANT to attack us.
Frankly, I think this part of the article indicates there is not going to be any negotiated settlement with these people in their current state of mind.
"Gadahn, who appeared in an Al Qaeda video last September in which he called on Americans to convert to Islam, demanded that Bush remove all U.S. military and spies from Islamic countries, free all Muslims from U.S. prisons and end support for Israel. He said a withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq alone would not satisfy Al Qaeda."
Nothing less than a totally islamic (their particular version of it too) globe will satisfy these people.
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What GWB shoulda done had he been a smart leader..
(He shoulda) pulled away from the middle east..Defend Isreal for sure,but let the Islamists fite each other for stupid indifferences..While we develop alternative energy resources.
Declare war on oil dependancy..Force the Arabs to come up with something other than oil to export..And watch them dwindle into something close to the current African continent.
It might have taken 5 to 10 years but but i think the whole world would have jumped on board(and been better off)..instead we got Iraq and Islamists semi-united against what should be the greatest superpower in the world....
Democracy...
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Watch Dubai. They're bootstrapping a new non-oil economy using the current oil money because they know it's just a matter of time before the cash starts to dry up. Which countries will survive the fall of petrol?
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i got a message for this al qaeda guy.
al, you be writing checks your butt can't cash.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? I'm curious as to how you feel we should make them want to leave us alone.
that's a legitimate question... unfortunately I don't have "the answer". I believe a non-interventionist foreign policy would help, but a lot of the damage has already been done. Simply pulling out of Iraq won't "fix" it, our foreign policy as a whole needs to be examined. Also, I feel like we've lost the moral high ground due to things like torture and renditions. What happened to the America that led by example? We've gone from being a good neighbor that everyone wants to emulate to the neighborhood bully that forces his will on others. Who loves a bully? Changing perceptions won't happen over night, it could take a generation or more. But IMHO we need to try to change how we're perceived, and that's something you can't "force", only "encourage".
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
that's a legitimate question... unfortunately I don't have "the answer". I believe a non-interventionist foreign policy would help, but a lot of the damage has already been done. Simply pulling out of Iraq won't "fix" it, our foreign policy as a whole needs to be examined. Also, I feel like we've lost the moral high ground due to things like torture and renditions. What happened to the America that led by example? We've gone from being a good neighbor that everyone wants to emulate to the neighborhood bully that forces his will on others. Who loves a bully? Changing perceptions won't happen over night, it could take a generation or more. But IMHO we need to try to change how we're perceived, and that's something you can't "force", only "encourage".
Well said
:aok
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But IMHO we need to try to change how we're perceived, and that's something you can't "force", only "encourage".
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It would help alot if we started lowering our standard of living. If we weakened (or destroyed) or economy by adhering to a punitive kyoto accord many would rejoice (pathetically, many americans would rejoice too). If more of us started riding bicycles because we couldn't afford gas, those people in oil rich/people poor countries would sympathize with us. If more of us died because we didnt have enough food to feed ourselves or medicine to heal ourselves, then the rest of the world would feel better about us. If we got rid of our military and opened ourselves up to attack, much of the world would be happier. We are hated by many because we are successfull. We are hated by others because our way of life threatens their monopoly on religious ignorance.
Yes, lets make the rest of this rather pathetic world want us to be like them.
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Originally posted by Yeager
But IMHO we need to try to change how we're perceived, and that's something you can't "force", only "encourage".
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It would help alot if we started lowering our standard of living. If we weakened (or destroyed) or economy by adhering to a punitive kyoto accord many would rejoice (pathetically, many americans would rejoice too). If more of us started riding bicycles because we couldn't afford gas, those people in oil rich/people poor countries would sympathize with us. If more of us died because we didnt have enough food to feed ourselves or medicine to heal ourselves, then the rest of the world would feel better about us. If we got rid of our military and opened ourselves up to attack, much of the world would be happier. We are hated by many because we are successfull. We are hated by others because our way of life threatens their monopoly on religious ignorance.
Yes, lets make the rest of this rather pathetic world want us to be like them.
ahh, the old "they hate us for our freedom" line... if that's so, wouldn't their hatred for us be proportionate to how free we are? Are we more or less free than we were 50 years ago? Why didn't they hate us back then?
Also, who's saying we should "get rid of our military"? I certainly haven't, and Ron Paul certainly isn't. That's a ridiculous statement. We need a strong military, strong enough to deter anyone from thinking twice about attacking us and strong enough to DEFEND this great country shoud we be attacked.
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saying that they hate us for our freedom is simplistic but not inaccurate.
They hate us for the example we show and the alternative we show to extremely brutal and repressive islamofacism.
lazs
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BS.. they hate because we are there (ME).
Quit drinking the koolaid!
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Originally posted by Yeager
But IMHO we need to try to change how we're perceived, and that's something you can't "force", only "encourage".
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It would help alot if we started lowering our standard of living. If we weakened (or destroyed) or economy by adhering to a punitive kyoto accord many would rejoice (pathetically, many americans would rejoice too). If more of us started riding bicycles because we couldn't afford gas, those people in oil rich/people poor countries would sympathize with us. If more of us died because we didnt have enough food to feed ourselves or medicine to heal ourselves, then the rest of the world would feel better about us. If we got rid of our military and opened ourselves up to attack, much of the world would be happier. We are hated by many because we are successfull. We are hated by others because our way of life threatens their monopoly on religious ignorance.
Yes, lets make the rest of this rather pathetic world want us to be like them.
I hear simplistic terms like "they hate our freedom", but not one member of my wife's Iranian born & raised family has ever mentioned that. Its actually the opposite, they wanted to come here because of our freedoms.
Muslims don't care too much about international lines separating countries, they consider fellow Muslim like thinkers to be brothers regardless... for 1000s of years they have taken up arms and rallied to support each other.
They bring up issues like the US installing a puppet .gov in Iran, the Shah, then supporting his brutal secret police who made 1000s vanish, torturing 1000's of others. Then our support for Saddam attacking Iran which cost untold 1000s of Iranian lives, which included Saddam using "WMDs" (gas) with the help of US intelligence.
These aren't just Iranian issues, many Muslims see it as a "big picture", a very long history of failed US policy that's resulted in untold 100,000's if not millions Muslim deaths.
Americans simply can't relate IMO, we have never had a foreign country come along and overthrow our .gov with "we know whats best for you people" arrogance, then turn a blind eye to blatant atrocities that followed. We don't know what its like to have a foreign country (the USA) support our neighbor in attacking us, on our soil, killing untold 1000's of our friends / relatives.
They have 50 years of reasons to hate on us.
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they hate because we are there (ME).
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Once the islamic caliphate is firmly entrenched in the ME you think thats where its going to end? These islamozealots have a vision of the entire world under that islamic caliphate. These religious freakazoids are just getting started. This war has just begun.
And persians are a completely different breed of cat ;)
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Originally posted by Yeager
Persians are a different breed of cat ;)
Yup and they can be "fixed".
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
They have 50 years of reasons to hate on us.
more of a reason to handle them before they can cause us real harm..
screw iran
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xmarine... your wifes family is fundamentalist muslim islamofacists and they wanted to come here?
you are being silly... the average muslim embraces the tennent of freedom of religion as outlined in the koran.
It is not the average muslim that hates the example western freedom represents...
It is the islamofacists who want to control their muslim population that hate us because of the freedom we allow.
It is simplistic in the extreme to say that "they" hate us because we are there..
You have to define who is "they" first. There are good muslims who would be happy if we left.. happy for a while that is... "they" would hate the islamofacists as much or more.
the other "they".. the ones that count... the ones who will die in order to kill us... "they" will always see our freedom as a threat to the way they want the world to be.
And that world is a brutal and intolerant world of nine centuries ago where every transgression is a death sentance.
A world where any joy or freedom or individualism is seen as an affront to allah punishable by death.
Do any of you appeasers really think you could live under fundamentalist muslim laws? You all go on about the seperation of church and state but with the islamofacists there is none.
you can't come to any comprimise at all with em.. and it is because you want freedom... freedom of religion.. freedom in the bedroom or to drink or whatever. You would be put to death before you got through the day.
lazs