Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hornet33 on May 30, 2007, 12:15:49 PM
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OK, lets beat this thing one more time.
If YOU take damage from a collision it's because YOU hit the other plane. You didn't get rammed. YOU rammed someone.
I bring this up because yesterday I witnessed a fight between a squadie and some noob who ended up flying right into the bottom of my squadies plane. The noob dies and then comes up on 200 accusing my squadie of ramming him, and was very impolite about it to say the least.
Why don't people get this???? If I as a player intentionaly ram anouther plane, I get the damage and the other plane flies away unhurt. That's how it works. I don't know how many times I've heard people say, "That guy just rammed me and then flew away and I got killed." What a bunch of bull. If you took the damage you hit the other guy. YOUR front end saw the collision, therefor it was YOUR responsiblity to avoid the collision.
I myself have been accused of ramming and I never even seen the other plane. I had a guy run into the back of my plane and then accused me of ramming him. How is that possible if I was flying in the same direction and was in front of him? Short answer, it's not possible. He hit me and he died.
Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.
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Oh sure you ace pilot. ;)
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Nothing to see here folks...please move along :cool:
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HAHAHAHA toooo funny
ive had guys fly into my 6 and the game said i collided with them.
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seems reasonable, i watched a film of one of my flights and a LA7 ran into the back of my plane, his bullits missed but his plane didn't, he broke into many pieces, i didn't understand at first but after reading this post it makes sense.:aok
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Not sure how accurate this is. Have gotten two different types of collision messages. "You have collided with ..." and " ... has collided with you". Sometimes I get the damage, some times I don't. Never can tell when, and I always try to avoid them, although sometimes when screaming through buffs it happens. That would be my bad.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.
Actually, you are the one that needs to get a grip. When zipcoad ace dives on my six, flies through me and the system sais I colided while he moves to his next ram, I don't think it is really my fault. If anything, it is HTs fault (cause he wrote the coad) :rofl (Thats a joke! ha ha ha, k?)
People get like that because of the way it works. In their end it might have looked like you ramed them. The way colisions work is not right and therefore cannot be trusted. When I clear a spit on my right and two seconds later I get a colision message and lose my left aleron, something is not working right. When I colide with a panzer and get a PW, something is not right. When out of ammo and intentionaly chace a guy around trying to colide with him and nothing happens, something is not right. When we colide HO and I get a PW only, somethign is wrong. Get the idea?
Now go back a couple of years and see if there are any colision whines. You can argue that if changed back people will hold the triger down and fly through you but guess what! Thats exactly what they do now. The only difference now is that I get to die while in a good fight because cherry picker zipcoad came in too fast and - you guessed it - he ramed me but he got no damage.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.
Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.
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Originally posted by Larry
Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.
When there is no collision message, you don't get damage from collision. Any damage you get in such a case is from enemy bullets.
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There is no collision, there are only 2 planes occupying the same space at the same point in time in one reality or the other. That is it.
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Originally posted by Lusche
When there is no collision message, you don't get damage from collision. Any damage you get in such a case is from enemy bullets.
I didnt say any thing about "no collision message". But it doesnt matter which one you get, if you the planes hit on your end you are getting damaged. If they didnt hit on your end then you will not get damage. I hardly ever HO most of my rams are in a turn fight or with Im droping down on bombers while they are under my nose and I get to close.
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The collision model is what it is, and is limited by the lag time of the 2 machines as well. I get it. One machine might not see what the other machine sees.
What I think gets people upset (me anyway) is when I see "so and so collided with you" (instead of "you collided with so and so"), and then you are missing pieces and he is flying away apparently unscathed. What this actually means is that my machine saw us collide - so my machine sets damage on me, his machine doesn't set damage on him, even tho my machine just told me he was the one who caused the collision.
If I get a "you collided" - hey, thats my pilot error - I figure I should die. I was pulling scissors last night and pancaked into the bottom of a fighter - my death, my fault. Its when you get a "he collided" and then you crash that gets people mad. Perhaps some kind of adjustment to the amount of damage you take could be made on that basis - if "you" collide, full damage, if "he" collides, lesser damage.
EagleDNY
$.02
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Originally posted by Larry
Wrong. When you get damage from a ram is because your computer sees the planes hit. The other guys computer shows them spaced apart. Its because of lag. The other night I was fighting LTARget he ramed me in a turnfight. he got a oil hit. I saw no ram. He was about 100 feet away when he ramed me. It doesnt matter if you get the "you have collided" or "CPID has collided with you" If you see the planes hit on your end you will get damage.
To reinforce Larry/Truekill . . .
This is what happened . . . I got too close to Larry/Truekill's plane. IIRC, I was pulling up as he nosed over and went down. My nose must have hit a part of his aircraft as we passed. I got the orange message saying "you have collided". And guess what! I took damage!
From Larry/Truekill's perspective, he nosed over and I pulled up, but I was still a fair distance away. He got a white message saying "LTARget has collided with you." Guess what! He did NOT take damage!
All is right with the world.
(Sidenote -- imagine the confusion, however, had I managed to shoot him just before I collided. He may have gotten the mistaken impression he took damage from the white "LTARget has collided with you" message. Hint hint.)
I think a lot of people for some reason miss the orange text -- something about the color (control mode 1 selected) makes you want to automatically ignore it.
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"so and so collided with you"
Any damage that you thought resulted from ^^^^ is the result of you being shot. Said another way, anytime you see the above message, it's informational only. If you recieved damage around that same time, you were shot and hit. Said a third way - if his FE detects a collision, any damage that's calculated to take place from the collision is on his plane - not sent across the Internet to yours. Only your machine seeing the collision from your point of view damages your plane. Of course, if he's firing when he slams into you, your going to see the "so and so collided with you" message at nearly the same time as he shreds your plane with his guns, and your going to ASSUME that the damage was from the collision.
And yes, sometimes a collision doesn't mortally wound a plane (everyone has had times where they "just squeaked by" another aircraft with a glancing blow - and their plane not been fatally wounded.) So if he lights you up, and then hits you with a glancing blow, you'll see "so and so collided with you", he'll fly off, and your plane will come apart.
From the bullets, not the collision.
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
The collision model is what it is, and is limited by the lag time of the 2 machines as well. I get it. One machine might not see what the other machine sees.
What I think gets people upset (me anyway) is when I see "so and so collided with you" (instead of "you collided with so and so"), and then you are missing pieces and he is flying away apparently unscathed. What this actually means is that my machine saw us collide - so my machine sets damage on me, his machine doesn't set damage on him, even tho my machine just told me he was the one who caused the collision.
If I get a "you collided" - hey, thats my pilot error - I figure I should die. I was pulling scissors last night and pancaked into the bottom of a fighter - my death, my fault. Its when you get a "he collided" and then you crash that gets people mad. Perhaps some kind of adjustment to the amount of damage you take could be made on that basis - if "you" collide, full damage, if "he" collides, lesser damage.
EagleDNY
$.02
You got shot
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Now I get it, here I thought it all had something to do with magnetisim:huh
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For those people who think the collision model is so far fetched I have a tid bit for you.
What happens when you get a collide message when the plane that supposedly collided with is 200-300 feet away? If your for the if 2 planes collide you both should go down this is what will happen.
You have to remember there are 4 planes not 2. There 2 on your FE and 2 on his FE. They are not in the same place in relation to each other or the ground. This is why you see planes fly below ground and still live. This is a lag issue not a cheating(whatever you call it). Its also why he can collide when hes not even near you.
Until we get uber light speed intranet with state of the art computers this is the best anyone can do for a realistic collision model. Bottom line if you collide its your fault. Maybe there wasnt anything you can do fine.......he CANNOT collide with you intentionally with out killing himself.
Would you like it so that he could?
CFYA
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Why is this so hard for everyone?
There was a collision model
There were no whines
The model was improved
There are whines
I wonder what the fix could be. Hmmmmmmm. I cant figure it out. Some one help me or will start talking about different FEs, realities, Net lag, my dog etc until everyone is confused
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Dedalos --
Think less about who's fault it is, and collisions make more sense. If your reality sees a plane fly through you from behind, and you didn't/weren/t able to avoid it, then you take damage in your reality.
If he didnt see you come that close, then he shouldnt take it.
This game can't be played on a central server -- look at the lag we already see using the FE system! There is just no way to do collisions any more fairly than they already are.
And no, I saw no change in collisions in the last 3 years. The only thing that's differnet is that I fly differently, and consciously avoid coming that close to the screaming hunks of simulated metal -- just as I imagine I would if I were flying a real airplane.
I dont recall any announcement about collision model changes in an update -- did you see something I didnt? AFAIK, HT has previously said there was no change....
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dedalos, I've flown a number of online combat sims over the last 7 or more years, and I can guarantee you that the only differences between the whines on the boards when I first flew online and and the whines today are the names of (most of) the players and the name of the game.
The first collision model complaint I saw then was substantially the same as it is now, except that the game I played then didn't tell you when the OTHER guy collided - and you never survived ANY collision. Otherwise, it's like a time warp.
The first is the last and every in between.
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Cut-n-paste time.
From one the previous collision whine threads.
Originally posted by Bronk
Why Ram whines are pathetic.
Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)
Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)
How would you feel taking damage looking at your film and seeing tangles front end view, hmmmmmm?
I know I'd be pretty POed.
This also works nicely for the "none should take damage" people.
Yea I should be able to put the nose of my ac through another.:furious :furious :furious :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Bronk
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Originally posted by dedalos
There was a collision model
There were no whines
The model was improved
There are whines
AFAIK the ONLY thing changed with the collision model was the implementation of the system messages in the text buffer.
Anyone have any info on this?? HT??? Skuz??
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It is you job as pilot of the aircraft to make sure your plane does not hit nor get hit by things, trees, tanks bullets, planes. Intentional or not, you've failed.
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Originally posted by Geary420
AFAIK the ONLY thing changed with the collision model was the implementation of the system messages in the text buffer.
Yes, this is my recollection too.
The whine then was that there was a collision, I go down in flames, the other guy flies off unharmed. What this meant was I collided and the other guy did not. But I was left ignorant of the fact that the other guy did not suffer a collision, therefore it looked fishy, and the whining commenced.
New system messages make it all clear. "You have collided" and I took damage while the opponent flies off unharmed -- as it should be.
"So and so has collided with you" and he takes damage, I don't -- as it should be.
Both text messages simultaneously - well, "surprise," we both took damage. Perhaps not the same amount, but we both took damage.
So, it went from a lack of information about the nature of the collision to precise information that is now ignored. After so many bazillions of threads and Bronk's wonderful pictures, this should all be clear.
I prefer the more precise information. If there are some that can't decipher it for some reason, then too bad for them.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK, lets beat this thing one more time.
If YOU take damage from a collision it's because YOU hit the other plane. You didn't get rammed. YOU rammed someone.
in a proper debate your arguement would collapse at the very first hurdle. It is indescriminate and naive.
You arguement is incorrect because what you say is totally untrue. I have been hit by planes in the rear when in level before and they came off unscathed whilst i was twirling to the ground. You seem to have a assumed because he is your squaddie he is automatically right.
Have you seen a screen shot or clip showing wether the message was 'You have collided with...' or '......has collided with you'?
i assume not.
yes maybe the text buffer message sometimes occasionally gets things wrong but ifyou stick by the book then i know for 100% certainity that your arguement is based on a false, over-exaggerated and delusional base of knowledge.
:aok
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Sorry, Laurie, he's right.
HT himself has come on and said that this is the ONLY way you take damage from a collision. BUT -- you need to stop thinking about whose fault the collision is, and realize that it doesn't matter who hit who -- if it happened on your computer, then you were the last one with a chance to avoid it...and its your damage. There just isnt any other way for it to happen in the coad.
Period.
If you take damage without colliding, its from the enemy's guns.
Stil adamant? Post the film.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Stil adamant? Post the film.
That will never ever happen.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Laurie
in a proper debate your arguement would collapse at the very first hurdle. It is indescriminate and naive.
You arguement is incorrect because what you say is totally untrue. I have been hit by planes in the rear when in level before and they came off unscathed whilst i was twirling to the ground. You seem to have a assumed because he is your squaddie he is automatically right.
Have you seen a screen shot or clip showing wether the message was 'You have collided with...' or '......has collided with you'?
i assume not.
yes maybe the text buffer message sometimes occasionally gets things wrong but ifyou stick by the book then i know for 100% certainity that your arguement is based on a false, over-exaggerated and delusional base of knowledge.
:aok
Then I challenge you to find out with me. Lets go to the DA and take turns ramming each other without firing any weapons and lets see what happens. I am 100% sure that if you fly into the back of my plane with no guns firing, you will crash and I will fly away undamaged. I'll bet $100 on it. You willing to put up?
Anyone????????
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Then I challenge you to find out with me. Lets go to the DA and take turns ramming each other without firing any weapons and lets see what happens. I am 100% sure that if you fly into the back of my plane with no guns firing, you will crash and I will fly away undamaged. I'll bet $100 on it. You willing to put up?
Anyone????????
I've posted pics, films and taken people to the da. Good luck I now pass the torch on to you.
:D
Bronk
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Just a quick question... How hard would it be for the servers to act as a kind of mediator between the different front ends? My FE says one thing NME's says another and HT's server plays King Salomon and resolves the conflict? Would it increase bandwidth, need extra computing power? Just wondering....
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Originally posted by clerick
Just a quick question... How hard would it be for the servers to act as a kind of mediator between the different front ends? My FE says one thing NME's says another and HT's server plays King Salomon and resolves the conflict? Would it increase bandwidth, need extra computing power? Just wondering....
The problem is.. there is no conflict to resolve.
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Originally posted by clerick
Just a quick question... How hard would it be for the servers to act as a kind of mediator between the different front ends? My FE says one thing NME's says another and HT's server plays King Salomon and resolves the conflict? Would it increase bandwidth, need extra computing power? Just wondering....
Don't work that way. The game is played on your front end. The server is just an info transfer point. So if your front end detects a collision you take damage. That info is then sent to the server, then to your opponent.
Look at the pics I posted. Look how far away from tangle I am when he gets the collision message.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
I've posted pics, films and taken people to the da. Good luck I now pass the torch on to you.
:D
Bronk
I know Bronk. At least you understand what is happening but there are so many others that don't have a clue, noobs and vets alike. I've just noticed many more complaints/whines about it over the last couple of weeks and it's getting old.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Don't work that way. The game is played on your front end. The server is just an info transfer point. So if your front end detects a collision you take damage. That info is then sent to the server, then to your opponent.
Look at the pics I posted. Look how far away from tangle I am when he gets the collision message.
Bronk
I understand that, but to rebut an earlier post there IS a conflict between the two as demonstrated by your pics. Why not have FE1 say "Hey, i've detected a collision. FE2 do you concur?" and then if FE2 agrees then BAM! If not then the tie goes to the rammer and you both fly on.
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Originally posted by clerick
I understand that, but to rebut an earlier post there IS a conflict between the two as demonstrated by your pics. Why not have FE1 say "Hey, i've detected a collision. FE2 do you concur?" and then if FE2 agrees then BAM! If not then the tie goes to the rammer and you both fly on.
Because of lag it will never agree. So you have to fly in your little slice of reality.
So fly to what you see.
Bronk
Edit: There is NO conflict. On my front end I hit, so I take damage. On tangles I was several yards away so he doesn't. He gets to see me go boooom.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Because of lag it will never agree. So you have to fly in your little slice of reality.
So fly to what you see.
Bronk
Like i didnt have enough troubes with reality already
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Originally posted by clerick
I understand that, but to rebut an earlier post there IS a conflict between the two as demonstrated by your pics. Why not have FE1 say "Hey, i've detected a collision. FE2 do you concur?" and then if FE2 agrees then BAM! If not then the tie goes to the rammer and you both fly on.
If you want it to work that way then both planes would need to take damage right? Considering net lag it could take as long as 15-20 seconds after a collision before both PC's registered a colision. Imagine seeing a close call on your FE. Nothing happens so you figure your OK and go off looking for anouther target. Your lining up and all of a sudden BOOM!!!!! Your in the tower with a collision message. Doesn't seem fair does it?
The way it is now is fair because the only damage incurred BY collision is on the plane that actually hits anouther plane.
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Originally posted by Laurie
in a proper debate your arguement would collapse at the very first hurdle. It is indescriminate and naive.
You arguement is incorrect because what you say is totally untrue. I have been hit by planes in the rear when in level before and they came off unscathed whilst i was twirling to the ground. You seem to have a assumed because he is your squaddie he is automatically right.
Have you seen a screen shot or clip showing wether the message was 'You have collided with...' or '......has collided with you'?
i assume not.
yes maybe the text buffer message sometimes occasionally gets things wrong but ifyou stick by the book then i know for 100% certainity that your arguement is based on a false, over-exaggerated and delusional base of knowledge.
:aok
Are you aware that you're completely wrong about this?
That, ladies and gentlemen, is why you see more whines, and more complaints about the system. People (not just laurie here, but many others as well) continue to reinforce incorrect ideas regarding how things work, and those who listen to them then reinforce the same ideas in the minds of the next players who ask them, and so on down the line. Adding the collision messages is the second biggest mistake HTC has ever made, after adding bomber drones.
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Well, heres my question. What happens when I see "You have collided" "xxxx has collided with you" but only you take visible damage?
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK, lets beat this thing one more time.
If YOU take damage from a collision it's because YOU hit the other plane. You didn't get rammed. YOU rammed someone.
I bring this up because yesterday I witnessed a fight between a squadie and some noob who ended up flying right into the bottom of my squadies plane. The noob dies and then comes up on 200 accusing my squadie of ramming him, and was very impolite about it to say the least.
Why don't people get this???? If I as a player intentionaly ram anouther plane, I get the damage and the other plane flies away unhurt. That's how it works. I don't know how many times I've heard people say, "That guy just rammed me and then flew away and I got killed." What a bunch of bull. If you took the damage you hit the other guy. YOUR front end saw the collision, therefor it was YOUR responsiblity to avoid the collision.
I myself have been accused of ramming and I never even seen the other plane. I had a guy run into the back of my plane and then accused me of ramming him. How is that possible if I was flying in the same direction and was in front of him? Short answer, it's not possible. He hit me and he died.
Get a grip people. If you die from a collision, it's YOUR fault, not the other guy.
so, let me get this straight...........i, completley defy the laws of physics, and drive my aircraft upwards into a diving aircraft? or better......i have reverse? i can actually go from 350mph foward to fly backwards into a higher aircraft? wow!! i have some serious skills, huh? its ashame they don't help me kill more though(couldn't hit water if i fell outta a boat)
seriously.....i've heard this EVERYWHERE::::if you get the WHITE collision message, then you were hit, and recieve NO damage(wrong from my experience) if you get the ORANGE message, then you DID the hitting, and will suffer damage(corect, at least for me). i've been hit at angles that were impossible for me to have contributed to with the exception of being in the fight, and went in with very large important parts missing, i've done the hitting...quite by accident.....and suffered the same fate. i don't know how it REALLY works, but it DOES NOT work like everyone's telling me/us.
:noid :noid
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Originally posted by Serenity
Well, heres my question. What happens when I see "You have collided" "xxxx has collided with you" but only you take visible damage?
And you know he took no damage how?
Missing flap or elevator is hard to spot at 200 mph.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Serenity
Well, heres my question. What happens when I see "You have collided" "xxxx has collided with you" but only you take visible damage?
The amount of tamage a plane takes in a collsion is variable. Usually, it is substantial (instant death, missing wing ect) but if you just scratched your enemies plane, you might come off with only a flap or a gear or a gun lost. You wouldn't be able to notice espeacially the latter kinds of damage on a enemy plane.
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Originally posted by CAP1
so, let me get this straight...........i, completley defy the laws of physics, and drive my aircraft upwards into a diving aircraft? or better......i have reverse? i can actually go from 350mph foward to fly backwards into a higher aircraft? wow!! i have some serious skills, huh? its ashame they don't help me kill more though(couldn't hit water if i fell outta a boat)
seriously.....i've heard this EVERYWHERE::::if you get the WHITE collision message, then you were hit, and recieve NO damage(wrong from my experience) if you get the ORANGE message, then you DID the hitting, and will suffer damage(corect, at least for me). i've been hit at angles that were impossible for me to have contributed to with the exception of being in the fight, and went in with very large important parts missing, i've done the hitting...quite by accident.....and suffered the same fate. i don't know how it REALLY works, but it DOES NOT work like everyone's telling me/us.
:noid :noid
Umm film??
Lemme guess no film.... am I correct?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Lusche
The amount of tamage a plane takes in a collsion is variable. Usually, it is substantial (instant death, missing wing ect) but if you just scratched your enemies plane, you might come off with only a flap or a gear or a gun lost. You wouldn't be able to notice espeacially the latter kinds of damage on a enemy plane.
It seems to be that I lost a wing, or emponage, but he goes on just fine, and appears to be maneuvering just fine. I say 'appears' because, as you said, such tiny damage is hard to spot at speed. But if I hit him hard enough to lose a wing, wouldnt he be missing something equally large?
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Once again you need to keep in mind the difference in your FE's. On your end you could fly straight through him and KABOOM.. tower. On his FE he may have just barely clipped you.
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Originally posted by CAP1
so, let me get this straight...........i, completley defy the laws of physics, and drive my aircraft upwards into a diving aircraft? or better......i have reverse? i can actually go from 350mph foward to fly backwards into a higher aircraft? wow!! i have some serious skills, huh? its ashame they don't help me kill more though(couldn't hit water if i fell outta a boat)
seriously.....i've heard this EVERYWHERE::::if you get the WHITE collision message, then you were hit, and recieve NO damage(wrong from my experience) if you get the ORANGE message, then you DID the hitting, and will suffer damage(corect, at least for me). i've been hit at angles that were impossible for me to have contributed to with the exception of being in the fight, and went in with very large important parts missing, i've done the hitting...quite by accident.....and suffered the same fate. i don't know how it REALLY works, but it DOES NOT work like everyone's telling me/us.
:noid :noid
OK -- first thing you have to get over is that the collision model is a no-fault system. What I mean by that is that there is no "blame" to be assigned in a collision -- either your computer detects that your plane and an object occupy the same space (in which case a collision has occurred) or it does not detect it.
If observed from the outside on your computer, the only thing that matters is if your plane and another plane intersect. It does NOT matter if his nose hits your plane, or your nose hits his, or whatever. THERE IS NO BLAME. It simply is, or is not, a collision. No one is the "hitter" and no one is the "hittee", only a "hit has occurred."
If your PC detects a collision regardless of whether or not you actually see it coming, you will get an orange message that says "you have collided". You will then take damage.
If you get the white message "so-and-so collided with you", then you DID NOT take damage UNLESS you simultaneously see the orange text. In that case, it was a rarity where both your PC and his detected a collision at the same moment (usually only occurs during HOs).
Back to the "Hint": If you get a white message that so-and-so collided with you, and you did NOT get a simultaneous orange message -- then any damage that appears to coincide with the white message is due to weapons fire - plain and simple. If he was close enough to smack into you, he was also close enough that tapping his trigger is bound to hit your airframe with catastrophic force.
Accept the fact that your PC may detect a plane fly into yours when that is not what occurred on the other guy's PC. It happens.
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Originally posted by Serenity
It seems to be that I lost a wing, or emponage, but he goes on just fine, and appears to be maneuvering just fine. I say 'appears' because, as you said, such tiny damage is hard to spot at speed. But if I hit him hard enough to lose a wing, wouldnt he be missing something equally large?
Once again, due to lag no. He may have just touched a wing tip on his front end.
On yours, your whole wing passed through him.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Serenity
It seems to be that I lost a wing, or emponage, but he goes on just fine, and appears to be maneuvering just fine. I say 'appears' because, as you said, such tiny damage is hard to spot at speed. But if I hit him hard enough to lose a wing, wouldnt he be missing something equally large?
The same positional shift that can make only one of the two planes experience a collision can make a simultaneous collision have vastly different outcomes.
Say you and I are in a head-on situation. At the last second, I pull up, but you blindly press forward in a straight line. Due to internet lag, there is a fraction of a second where I have pulled up on my PC but your PC does not yet detect that, and thus I still appear to be flying straight.
On your PC/front end, since I have not yet pulled up. You PC sees my plane smack your plane prop-to-prop, and thus your plane instantly disintegrates.
On my PC/front end, I was pulling up, but just a smidge too late. My tailwheel clips your horizontal stabilizer as I pass over your aircraft. I lose a tailwheel.
You float down in your chute saying "Dang, I got the orange message and the white message -- we should both have taken damage, but he is flying off unscathed! The bastage!!"
I am flying off looking back at your smoking wreckage saying "Wow, that was close. I better remember that tailwheel is gone when I land."
<>
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ok i am not getting this,but this is my understanding of this so far(if i am wrong PLEASE forgive me I am not the sharpest knife in the kitchen)
#1 XXXXX collided with you (sometimes i die sometimes I dont).
#2 you have Collided with XXXXXX ( sometimes I die sometimes i dont)
Now i have heard it was lag ect,ect but I see a flaw with this.
Even if i have a cable connection and you are on dial up,How does this work,even if i see the collision 5-50 secs before the guy on dial-up its still a collison.
This can be compared to a drunk and a sober person heading down the highway head-on (drunk person is dial up,sober person is cable connection)
SOBER person (cable connection) jesus your all over the place
DRUNK person (dial connection) hell no i am not HTC said connection dont matter.
SOBER person BS your warping in 90% angle
DRUNK BS HTC says its a problem with the internet
SOBER omg you ran into me
DRUNK nope EVERYONE says its you fault if you get rammed
SOBER but you ran into me from my 6
DRUNK yeap but EVERYONE says its still your fault maybe you should check your 6 more often
SOBER well how do i checki my 6 with all this lag i pay 65 bucks a month for this kick bellybutton connection
DRUNK LMAO i pay 9 bucks for dial up to kick your arse
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Originally posted by Simaril
if it happened on your computer, then you were the last one with a chance to avoid it...and its your damage. There just isnt any other way for it to happen in the coad.
Not true, I got a rear collision last night. Someone dived on me and hit me from behind, he survived, I didn't. In his FE he probably went from my high 6 to my low 12 across the top of my nose. But because of netlag my FE saw him milliseconds behind was his FE saw and rendered it as a collision. End of story
But I'm not worried, I know how the system works and theres not really any easier way of doing it. Its the same with all mmpog/sims.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Sorry, Laurie, he's right.
HT himself has come on and said that this is the ONLY way you take damage from a collision. if it happened on your computer, then you were the last one with a chance to avoid it...and its your damage. There just isnt any other way for it to happen in the coad.
Period.
If you take damage without colliding, its from the enemy's guns.
Stil adamant? Post the film.
Then this collision model is dumb to be frank, when your a hit by someone else from BEHIND how the hell is it your responsibility to react?
Why should I have to pander around for some brick-headed moron who thinks he's japanese and just had shot of alcohol?
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Then this collision model is dumb to be frank, when your a hit by someone else from BEHIND how the hell is it your responsibility to react?
Because the alternative is turning it off, which would make the game unplayable.
You'd be able to fly right through other aircraft 99% of the time and get off scot-free.
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lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla. WE KNOW. WE GET IT. :furious
What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back. After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added. Maybe you have not been around that long. Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this? I collide in 90% of my sorties. I cant even remember a collision before the changes. Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble. Was fixed the next day. The pint is, it has been changed. Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
I collide in 90% of my sorties.
If that really is true and not just some exaggeration... sorry, but then you should really think about your flying.
Just because someone does a very bad job staying away from other planes it does not mean the collision model is flawed.
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Originally posted by dedalos
lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla. WE KNOW. WE GET IT. :furious
What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back. After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added. Maybe you have not been around that long. Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this? I collide in 90% of my sorties. I cant even remember a collision before the changes. Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble. Was fixed the next day. The pint is, it has been changed. Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl
I think the collisions were turned off for a while, then they were turned back on, and people started whining, so we got the messages, then even more whining.
I cannot remember any other changes to the collision model though, even if there were any. I do remember that before the messages, I just assumed I was getting shot a lot more than I was.
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Originally posted by dedalos
lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla. WE KNOW. WE GET IT. :furious
What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back. After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added. Maybe you have not been around that long. Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this? I collide in 90% of my sorties. I cant even remember a collision before the changes. Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble. Was fixed the next day. The pint is, it has been changed. Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl
Do you remember when the Me163 came out it would blow up 50% of the time?
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Originally posted by Lusche
If that really is true and not just some exaggeration... sorry, but then you should really think about your flying.
Just because someone does a very bad job staying away from other planes it does not mean the collision model is flawed.
Maybe if you tried to get into a fight once in a while you'd know what I am talking about, lol.
Anyway, I give up. You are right. There is nothing wrong. Never was never will be :aok
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I say both people, when they collide, become a twisted wreck, they fall out of sky in one huge twisted ball of carnage, both die. It happened in WWII!
_____________________________ ___________
_____________________\|/_________________
_____________________/|\_________________
_____________________________ ___________
they both go boom, fall to ground.
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The text buffer never ever ever ever gets it wrong, as in no way in hell as in it can not be wrong.
The only thing that changed to the collision detection was the text messages were added.
Also there were more discussions of collision before the addition of the text messages.
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Wait a minute... this aint HiTech, all the wurds ar speled corructly!
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Originally posted by hitech
The text buffer never ever ever ever gets it wrong, as in no way in hell as in it can not be wrong.
The only thing that changed to the collision detection was the text messages were added.
Also there were more discussions of collision before the addition of the text messages.
HT, no changes made after the release of AH2? Still same model / buble as in AH1?
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Originally posted by dedalos
HT, no changes made after the release of AH2? Still same model / buble as in AH1?
There is no "bubble" ... as in "hit" or "collision".
The "bubble" is the aircraft and its volume in the X-Y-Z world.
The "bubble" is not bigger than the aircraft and it's not smaller than the aircraft ... it is the aircraft.
If any of the X-Y-Z coordinates of my aircraft (on my FE) intersect with any of the X-Y-Z coordinates of another enemy aircraft (on my FE) ... then I have collided and I will get the "you have collided with Dedalos" message.
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dedalos: You are now just trying to pick a new topic of discussion, your hole point was about the last addition of the collision text messages.
I do not believe we have ever had a bubble in collision detection in AH.
2nd you do understand how the collision process works and you just do not like it and you refuse to accept basic lag facts.
HiTech
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O.k. that's a little better on misspeling but Im no shure it realy hItEch yet cause i can actualy understand wha u sayin...
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Originally posted by Laurie
Then this collision model is dumb to be frank, when your a hit by someone else from BEHIND how the hell is it your responsibility to react?
Why should I have to pander around for some brick-headed moron who thinks he's japanese and just had shot of alcohol?
Sorry, this is yet more evidence that you think "blame" has or should have something to do with the collision model.
To answer your question, YES if you see a plane barreling down on you, it IS your responsibility to get the heck out of the way. If you don't, and that airplane hits you, IT IS PROPER that you take damage, REGARDLESS of whether or not that player saw/experienced the same thing.
Direct enough for you?
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and I doubt the Japanese population finds alot of humor in your words...
a recurring theme in most of your posts...
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Originally posted by hitech
HiTech
Aren't you still on vacation????
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I found out last tour if I just stayed on their six filling their cartoon plane with 20MM I didn't collide with them as much. If I see their front, I turn the other way and look for a way to get on their six.
Been working ever since.
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Originally posted by oldtard
ok i am not getting this,but this is my understanding of this so far(if i am wrong PLEASE forgive me I am not the sharpest knife in the kitchen)
#1 XXXXX collided with you (sometimes i die sometimes I dont).
If you are dying, it is NOT due to the collision. A white message XXXXXX collided with you indicates the opponent took damage.
Originally posted by oldtard
#2 you have Collided with XXXXXX ( sometimes I die sometimes i dont)).
The orange "you have collided" message indicates you took damage from a collision. It may or may not have been fatal damage, but damage occurred.
Collisions are not always fatal. Remember this.
Originally posted by oldtard
Now i have heard it was lag ect,ect but I see a flaw with this.
Even if i have a cable connection and you are on dial up,How does this work,even if i see the collision 5-50 secs before the guy on dial-up its still a collison.
The data transfer rate between your PC and his is the combination of the two ping times. If your speedy connection has a 20 and his dialup has a 400, the combined lag time is 420 for each of you as you dogfight. Neither of you is more "sluggish" than the other. If you see him warp in front of you, then he just saw you warping on his 6.
Someone earlier started the example of 4 planes. You have two planes that are on your PC, and two that are on his PC. You are seeing your actual position on your PC, and seeing a shadow of his plane. He sees his actual position, and the shadow of yours. There is a displacement, or lag, between your actual position and what he sees as the position of your shadow in his world.
I think HiTech described it once as two real planes pulling two drones on a cable. You see your real plane and his drone. The length of the cable is the combined lag the two of you are experiencing. It is the same for each of you -- but his cable in the earlier example would be longer than another plane whose player had a lower ping.
The ideal (and non-existant) world of instant, faster than light communications where each of you had 0 pings would be the only instance where you would see the actual position of the other airplane, and he yours.
Hope that helps.
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Why is this such a contentious issue?
It takes two planes for a collision to occur-so obviously you are both to blame.
End of story.
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Originally posted by gobucks
Why is this such a contentious issue?
It takes two planes for a collision
sigh....
It does not.
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Originally posted by gobucks
Why is this such a contentious issue?
It takes two planes for a collision
Originally posted by Lusche
sigh....
It does not.
unless you collide with ground it must.
I have to agree with gobucks on this one. With the lag, if I do my job correctly, I will not collide, plane and simple (pun intended).
I have had maybe 2 collisions this tour, usually due to my poor SA. I am not an uber stick as you are, but I found it's not that hard to miss the other plane.
Now if I can just figure out the shooting them down part...
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Originally posted by Scca
unless you collide with ground it must.
His post was
"It takes two planes for a collision to occur-so obviously you are both to blame."
And thats not really true. If I, for example, do run into an enemy trying to evade. There is a collsion just on my FE, not on his - because he successfully dodged me on his FE. Only I take damage, and only I am to blame.
It didn't take 2 planes, cause on his FE, there was no collsion. Only on mine, it's my fault.
The "it takes 2" arguemnt is always brought into play by people not understanding how that whole "2 realities " thing really works...
I absolutley agree with you, that any collision damage I take is only my own responsibility, no one else's.
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Originally posted by gobucks
Why is this such a contentious issue?
It takes two planes for a collision to occur-so obviously you are both to blame.
End of story.
Wellllll ... he partly right guys ... but what he doesn't understand is ...
It's the 2 planes on your computer gobucks ... not the 2 planes on my computer.
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I think a lot of folks are still hung up on fault, blame, and ramming (which implies intent), when the simple fact of the matter is that the game is just looking at positions, and letting people know when they get into a spot that is currently occupied by something else.
Yeah, there are instances where it really sucks (bomber drones... suffice to say I don't like drone behavior, but a little more caution solves that issue as well), and coming off a runway only to have your FE register a collision as some vulchtard zips by at weenie factor 2, but by and large it works and works better than the alternatives.
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If they can't figure it out with the pictures I posted.... well.
They never will.
Bronk