Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on May 31, 2007, 11:13:19 PM
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I know what u are all going 2 say " the acks fine how it is" "its not to accurate, thats how accurate it was in WWII."
well, the ack in WWII was hand cranked and could not keep up will a plane flying at 400 mph through it, it was physically imposable for a hand cranked ack to turn at 400 mph, ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
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Someone call the Wahhhhhhmbulance:rofl
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Originally posted by redman555
I know what u are all going 2 say " the acks fine how it is" "its not to accurate, thats how accurate it was in WWII."
well, the ack in WWII was hand cranked and could not keep up will a plane flying at 400 mph through it, it was physically imposable for a hand cranked ack to turn at 400 mph, ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
You have to find a balance between realistic and whats best for game play. If you turn the ack down to low it only takes 1 person to de-ack then vulch the field, if the ack is also to low 1 suicide porker can come in pork ords dar and troops all in 1 sortie. But if the ack is to high it discourages people to try and de-ack the field all together knowing that there going to die doing it.
I think the ack settings now are just about the correct balance.
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yes, i relize that, but it kinda buggs me when im hitting over 400 mph and ack gets my engine, and i relize ti woulb be eaiser to de ack and so on but then ht should just put more ack
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Lets say the ack couldn't hit you at 400+ mph all that means is when people come in to de-ack they would dive from 15k take 1 or 2 out and repeat the process in till the field is de-acked that means 1 person could take out ack then pork it then continue to vulch on it. I don't think HTC will budge on this one.
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w/e im just saying atleast make it alittle less accurate
EX: instead of being 500% accurate make it like 80%
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The fact that people hate it, is often a sign that the system is working as intended.
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No. What is BS is the Pilot wound setup
Blood spatter then 10 seconds later, total blackout.
C'mon didnt anyone make it due to the adreniline??
I seem to remember more then one story of people in combat so jacked up on adreniline that they didnt even notice they were wounded at first.
Now while Im not expecting that.at least not all the time
there has GOT to be a better way.
The way its done now I'd rather just be killed outright
They only problem I have with the feild ack is too many people spend too much time hiding in it
but a well co ordinated attack can take it out easy enough
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If you read some of Closterman's accounts of low level field attacks in Tempests then you'll probably think the ack here is spot on. Here's a quote from him:
AJ: As for example when you attacked an airfield and you alone returned out of eight or twelve aircraft?
PC: Yes, we could send out six aircraft on a mission and only two would return. This unusually high loss was especially likely to occur on ground attack missions such as strafing enemy supply trains. We could not do much about this; the anti-aircraft coverage was intense and severe. The losses in the Free French Forces were similarly experienced in the RAF proper. You know, overall the Royal Air Forces and Royal Marines lost over 80,000 young pilots. The Americans too experienced heavy losses of airmen on their daylight bombing missions.
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Originally posted by redman555
yes, i relize that, but it kinda buggs me when im hitting over 400 mph and ack gets my engine, and i relize ti woulb be eaiser to de ack and so on but then ht should just put more ack
They did put in more ack.
You ever see how much tracer fire 1 lone plane attracts over an airfield? That you catch a couple rounds in that cross fire is not hard to believe.
And AA or AAA hitting a fast mover is not all that hard to a trained gunner. LTARs manage to hit out to between 1 and 3K with Osties often enough to hear the tales. Ask some old Vietnam pilots what being over North Vietnam was like, and they would be pushing toward Mach 1 speeds at times.
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ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
Guess again. Try watching some old footage of the Kamakazi attacks. Low altitude, 400 mph deflection shots. And as I am sure you will soon find out, more planes were shot down by flak than from planes.
The Puffy ack on the other hand needs work. Still can't figure out how those rounds pop around me when I am changing direction and altitude. And how the heck can the shoot behind mountains? :confused:
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by tedrbr
LTARs manage to hit out to between 1 and 3K with Osties often enough to hear the tales.
Yup, I've regularly had ltar's reach out and touch me before the AI even got close.
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Originally posted by LTARsqrl
Still can't figure out how those rounds pop around me when I am changing direction and altitude. And how the heck can the shoot behind mountains? :confused:
A box is drawn around you that all ack fires into. With puffy, the puffs are randomly generated within it. With solid fire, the rounds fly through a random point in the cube. This cube gets larger the faster you are moving, the farther away you are, and the more Gs you're pulling. The box stays centered around the aircraft, however.
HT actually stated at the last con's Q&A that the puffy-through-mountains is a feature. :huh
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yeah but sqrl, thats if there going head on or running away not a fly by, and i garentee it was like a 1 in 1,000 chance u hit a fly by
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Originally posted by redman555
yeah but sqrl, thats if there going head on or running away not a fly by, and i garentee it was like a 1 in 1,000 chance u hit a fly by
:rolleyes: Oh boy. Attacking a CV group, maybe one gun would be head-on. The rest are deflection shots. Same at an AAA installation or field.
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Yeah, but your not taking into account the fact that in a REAL WWII base, there were a heck of a lot more AA than in an AH field. Think about all the MG pits. Let alone the 20mm, 40mm 88mm etc. And they all were not pointed in one direction. You might get past the one you fly over, but the one just past it is pointing at your 6 all ready.
LTARsqrl <>
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It's going to be such a long summer, and none of these kids are going to pick up a book during that time.
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Hubsonfire. You know what a book is? WOW ! ! ! :rofl
LTARsqrl <> :aok
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LOL whaaaaa ack too bad..(translate... I don't have the skills to fly low enough or fast enough, and I don't want to jink..cuz i dove and compressed my LA7 from 35K)
I will add only one crank about ack..which i think is perfect now. A strike should lose planes to ack on an attack... it's a combat sim, for cryin out loud.
IF I cannot see the sea at 1K due to fog..
HTF can the cv's guns see me...and hit me.
I know it's cuz the code doesn't recognize that a cloud is there.. blah blah blah..but i kinda think it should....makes a cv kinda invincible under fog... not like any country as figured that out.. cough cough.
now that is frustration.
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Originally posted by LTARsqrl
Hubsonfire. You know what a book is? WOW ! ! ! :rofl
LTARsqrl <> :aok
wel duh skwirul, i saw a porgram on teevee abowt themz.
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Check this picture out.
Of the Spitfire pilots in this picture, 12 of them ended up shot down during the course of the war. 11 by flak (1 of them twice) and 1 by a 190. The flak was a far bigger threat.
The Flak in AH is fine
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall.jpg)
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Now thats perspective.
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to the men who fought and died hating what we now call a game.
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by redman555
I know what u are all going 2 say " the acks fine how it is" "its not to accurate, thats how accurate it was in WWII."
well, the ack in WWII was hand cranked and could not keep up will a plane flying at 400 mph through it, it was physically imposable for a hand cranked ack to turn at 400 mph, ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
This isn't WW2. Don't like the ack? Don't fly in it. Works pretty well for me.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's going to be such a long summer, and none of these kids are going to pick up a book during that time.
:rofl
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Originally posted by redman555
I know what u are all going 2 say " the acks fine how it is" "its not to accurate, thats how accurate it was in WWII."
well, the ack in WWII was hand cranked and could not keep up will a plane flying at 400 mph through it, it was physically imposable for a hand cranked ack to turn at 400 mph, ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
Funny thing is, I'm dead on accurate in a Field Gun out to about 2.5k. I enjoy hearing the whines, and "other folks" get all of the press.
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could ya teach me that Karaya? Last night I was firring on a 190 de-acking a base, and he made like 5 passes before I got him on the 6th! And I only got him on the 6th because he was foolish enough to go after a vulch instead of the ack so he got a bit too close.
Good thing the ack is so nasty or he might have been at it all day ! LOL!!
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The simple fact is...The fights have been more frequent and last longer since they added more ack and manned ack. A vulchfest is basically the death throws of a good fight. The longer you can delay the onset of the vulchfest, the better.. IMHO
In summary, ack is great..even more ack would be even better...It allows otherwise overwhelmed defenders subject to the horde-bang at least some chance of equalizing numbers to a point where mounting a meaningfull defense in the face of superior #'s w/ superior E becomes at least plausible ;)
As we all know groundfire accounted for 80% of all aircraft lost. It's debateable whether real WWII Anti-Aircraft artillery was more ore less accurate. What is certain is there was certainly more of it. Furthermore, unlike in real life, a large AA artillery piece was not detroyed by machine gun fire like it is in AH. The crew may have been disabled , but it could be re-manned...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Funny thing is, I'm dead on accurate in a Field Gun out to about 2.5k. I enjoy hearing the whines, and "other folks" get all of the press.
LOL I cant hit watermelon with feild ack.
When I get a kill in feild ack it is due mostly to blind luck then skill
BUT I am far better at shooting down planes with the main gun of a tank.
Which I find more fun anyway
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if anything the ack should be hardened so players can only kill it with multiple direct 20mm hits, make it impervious to .50 fire. the ack is what has generally improved the fighting. the timid players like the BoPs now up to defend because they can hang out in safe running distance to the ack and still have numbers to boot. the more ack the longer and deadlier it is to deack a borg targeted field preventing timid players like the BoPs from easily steam rolling bases even when they are in full lemming mode. a few willing defenders can effectively hold back three squads worth of BoPs timidity in their mad dash to conquer cartoonland.
now if only HTC would see it's way clear to harden the FHs and add manned 5" to the bases.........
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I don't dig being zapped by ack either, but I do think its much better than the old ack, it was far too easy to deack, and vulch...and I liked being able to deack and vulch..in one flight, but I knew that wasn't exactly realistic either....I'm not gonna gripe about the new ack, its better, I think.
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Originally posted by ColKLink
I don't dig being zapped by ack either, but I do think its much better than the old ack, it was far too easy to deack, and vulch...and I liked being able to deack and vulch..in one flight, but I knew that wasn't exactly realistic either....I'm not gonna gripe about the new ack, its better, I think.
Good point. Not a lot of real life examples of a single pilot breezing around deacking a base.
I wonder, though, if the increased ack has created a larger group of ackrunners? I wandered into the EW arena yesterday for a few minutes, and it seemed to me that the running to base ack was more prevalent. Perhaps not enough time there to make such a conclusion, but I'd enjoy hearing others' observations.
- oldman
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
could ya teach me that Karaya? Last night I was firring on a 190 de-acking a base, and he made like 5 passes before I got him on the 6th! And I only got him on the 6th because he was foolish enough to go after a vulch instead of the ack so he got a bit too close.
Good thing the ack is so nasty or he might have been at it all day ! LOL!!
Sure can, we'll try and hook up at a field and I'll run through some basic stuff. It just takes practice.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The simple fact is...The fights have been more frequent and last longer since they added more ack and manned ack. A vulchfest is basically the death throws of a good fight. The longer you can delay the onset of the vulchfest, the better.. IMHO
In summary, ack is great..even more ack would be even better...It allows otherwise overwhelmed defenders subject to the horde-bang at least some chance of equalizing numbers to a point where mounting a meaningfull defense in the face of superior #'s w/ superior E becomes at least plausible ;)
As we all know groundfire accounted for 80% of all aircraft lost. It's debateable whether real WWII Anti-Aircraft artillery was more ore less accurate. What is certain is there was certainly more of it. Furthermore, unlike in real life, a large AA artillery piece was not detroyed by machine gun fire like it is in AH. The crew may have been disabled , but it could be re-manned...
Zazen
Agree, I cannot count the times you and I have been in the Field Guns at the same field, stacking up cons like cordwood.
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This is a WWII sim ... the ack that we have in-game was not HAND CRANKED.
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One person can still deack if done right. Not safely though. You do it and you take a big risk. Kind of fair dont you think?
Not to mention that ack coul dnot hit you if you . . . . . . . hehehe, I not telling. Very usefull tool vs the ack runners :D
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Just as planes evolved over the course of the war, so did AAA. The early war AAA had a difficult time reaching high enough to do damage, didn't have proximity fusing, was visually directed, and yes, mostly hand-cranked. You see things like 37mm and 20mm manually directed guns, 4" guns with hand-cut fusing, etc.
Contrast that with the late war ack - radar directed large caliber guns with proximity fusing shooting down inbound V-1s for example. Quad 40mms (and not hand cranked anymore), along with 5" radar directed fire from ships. For sure, the old 88mm didn't have much trouble reaching up high to touch you.
We don't have the ack towers at fields, or the old Ma-Deuce (which was manually directed, but could still ruin your day pretty effectively if you came in at low alt). The current ack system while not perfect is a fairly reasonable compromise, although the puffy ack system could use work (frankly, I never see it shoot down much of anything - its worthless as it is).
And as far as hitting a crossing 400mph target coming low alt over a field goes - you aren't a crossing target to every gun (or gunner), and I've shot down plenty of guys as they go whistling right over a gun and drive right through the stream of lead.
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Now, it would probably be more accurate if we had MORE auto ack, but have it slightly less accurate. So, instead of having 10 of em in a town, bump it up to 15-20 but accuracy reduced 5-10%.
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"This is a WWII sim..."
Bzzzt.
Wrong!
On a scale of 1 to 14, 1 being lowest degree of accuracy, 14 being absolute metaphysical certitude, what are the chances that this is not a sim at all bucko?
14!!
Aces high is an online game using well modeled virtual WWII like aircraft BUT in a pure fantasy environment!
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Funny thing is, I'm dead on accurate in a Field Gun out to about 2.5k. I enjoy hearing the whines, and "other folks" get all of the press.
I wish someone would teach me how to be effective in ground guns. They'd be fun if I could hit anything.
I think the AI ack is just right. It keeps vulchers away and is pretty deadly, but isn't too hard to kill if you've got the nuggets to dive in.
Diving into a fully acked base is an adrenaline rush.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I wish someone would teach me how to be effective in ground guns. They'd be fun if I could hit anything.
I think the AI ack is just right. It keeps vulchers away and is pretty deadly, but isn't too hard to kill if you've got the nuggets to dive in.
Diving into a fully acked base is an adrenaline rush.
I think IRL it was much more of a pucker factor than an adrenaline rush ;)
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Practice, practice, practice. It's just gunnery. Just like any other weapons, once you get accustomed to the lead and drop, it's just point and shoot, without all that manoovering and stuff. :)
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Dont get me started on puffy ack. :mad: :furious
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Practice, practice, practice. It's just gunnery. Just like any other weapons, once you get accustomed to the lead and drop, it's just point and shoot, without all that manoovering and stuff. :)
It's hard to tell when you hit anything, especially when there's a vulchfest going on. I tried a LOT in a couple of the tours but never got any better.
I also read up on someone's writeup of it, something about the sight, but it didn't work for me.
It'd be nice to see a new writeup on it, if any of you ack-stars could spare an hour or so.
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Originally posted by Furball
Dont get me started on puffy ack. :mad: :furious
That reminds me, someone said a while back that one of the sound packs has an awesome puffy ack sound effect. Anyone remember offhand where it is?
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Originally posted by Furball
Nice sig Furball.
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Thanks :)
Although it hasnt had the desired impact yet :(
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
wel duh skwirul, i saw a porgram on teevee abowt themz.
And yes children, Hubs did spell "I" right....:D
And as far as flak shooting through mountains... it was a bankshot off the third boulder to the right. :noid
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Someone call the Wahhhhhhmbulance:rofl
LOL!!! :rofl :rofl :D
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Originally posted by redman555
I know what u are all going 2 say " the acks fine how it is" "its not to accurate, thats how accurate it was in WWII."
well, the ack in WWII was hand cranked and could not keep up will a plane flying at 400 mph through it, it was physically imposable for a hand cranked ack to turn at 400 mph, ack was only good at high alt and head on attacks.
If its pissing you off it seems to be working fine.
I think It would be nice to add puffy maned ack to fields also....
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Originally posted by Platano
If its pissing you off it seems to be working fine.
I think It would be nice to add puffy maned ack to fields also....
I'm thinking that would be really difficult to code and even harder to use.
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Originally posted by Platano
I think It would be nice to add puffy maned ack to fields also....
Think of all the kills you could steal.
Puffy ack needs to be removed from the game until they figure out some sort of killshooter penalty for it, or a way to cease fire when friendly planes are around. Getting blown away by it during a dogfight is lame. Is there killshooter for manned ack? I don't know because I rarely hit anything with it.
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yes, puffy ack has kill shooter, i accidently shot a allied plane when i he was being chased by a 109, it took me out of the gun saying u have been killed, but didnt say somone killed me
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o and u were saying make ack imperviuos to .50? Well i think the reason u can take an ack out so easly is prolly cause im assuming HT did something asif there were soldiers there on the gun, and u kill the soldiers u kill the gun? im just guessin but thats why i think ack is so easy 2 kill
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I like the ack, its effective but not too hard to kill. The biggest problem I see with ack is that its near impossible to get people to work together killing it. I can get 2 guns per pass in YakU- if im not going to fast:D
the problem is Im usually the only one going for it.
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Originally posted by redman555
yes, puffy ack has kill shooter, i accidently shot a allied plane when i he was being chased by a 109, it took me out of the gun saying u have been killed, but didnt say somone killed me
Ok...No it doesn't you must have been bombed or strafed.
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5" guns will not kill shoot you. As was said, you must have been bombed or something. You will see people on CVs shooting at friendly planes all the time. Tough not to when they take off right next to the 5"ers.
As for the kill shooting, 5" or 88mm Flak batteries would just put the furball a bit farther away from the field. As it is now, I can shoot the wing off a plane and someone will chase it to the ground blazing away at it the whole time.
88mm flak batteries (5"ers) at fields would help defend against attacks, but mainly against low level, lawn mowing Buffs. The 88s would be taken out as easy as any manned ack now. They are after all "Manned" and not armored.
Coordinated attacks can take out ack with no problem. It gets done routinely. Ack killing you is just the risks you take. If you’re the only one taking it down, you are either brave or stupid. LOL, Probably the latter if your complaining about it killing you.
LTARsqrl <> :aok
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our ack is nothing, this is Yontan airfield under night attack by night fighters
(http://www.nps.gov/archive/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003135-00/images/fig28.jpg)
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
our ack is nothing, this is Yontan airfield under night attack by night fighters
(http://www.nps.gov/archive/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003135-00/images/fig28.jpg)
Nice. That's time lapse :)
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Originally posted by LTARsqrl
The Puffy ack on the other hand needs work. Still can't figure out how those rounds pop around me when I am changing direction and altitude. And how the heck can the shoot behind mountains? :confused:
LTARsqrl <>
Now that I totally agree with! Shooting through mountains is unheard of in WW2 afaik. :huh And the speed with which the hi alt flak keep up with you at extreme ranges is not physically possible. The corrections are too accurate on turning fighters. I was also exploded by flak once in a 262, moving away from the ack base at med alt and 500 mph, the range and accuracy of those guns are totally unrealistic.
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Originally posted by 33Vortex
Now that I totally agree with! Shooting through mountains is unheard of in WW2 afaik. :huh And the speed with which the hi alt flak keep up with you at extreme ranges is not physically possible. The corrections are too accurate on turning fighters. I was also exploded by flak once in a 262, moving away from the ack base at med alt and 500 mph, the range and accuracy of those guns are totally unrealistic.
You've spent a lot of time in real flak have you?
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Ack is fine they way it is, we all have to fly in it and deal with it, I jink and dink and dunk. Sometimes I get hit...sometimes not.
As far as pilots wounds and people making it home, depends on what the bullet hit once it made entry, if it was a 20mm bullet then you basically had everything torn up as it is a big bullet.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
You've spent a lot of time in real flak have you?
Well, I've been married for 11 years so, yes I have :O
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Furthermore, unlike in real life, a large AA artillery piece was not detroyed by machine gun fire like it is in AH. The crew may have been disabled , but it could be re-manned...
Zazen
Zazen, not to be rude, but you are seriously underestimating the power of a .50 cal. They can and will destroy a gun (while most likely not the barrel of any large calibre) and more importantly it's traverse and elevation systems, along with any sighting or power supplies.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Well, I've been married for 11 years so, yes I have :O
:rofl
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Originally posted by redman555
instead of being 500% accurate make it like 80%
Jeanyus....
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There is a FINE line between: balance and gameplay / reality, and absurdity!
I like the ack. I fear it. Others dont and constantly fly through it without issue. I die immediately and have learned to fly LOW away from it while twisting my wings violently. It still gets me if I go for another round, but I always end up with a ding.
I do believe they should 'retard' the ack a bit if you are flying at mach past it...it does only make sense...not much, just a tiny bitsy tweak on it. :)
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Originally posted by Sincraft
There is a FINE line between: balance and gameplay / reality, and absurdity!
I like the ack. I fear it. Others dont and constantly fly through it without issue. I die immediately and have learned to fly LOW away from it while twisting my wings violently. It still gets me if I go for another round, but I always end up with a ding.
I do believe they should 'retard' the ack a bit if you are flying at mach past it...it does only make sense...not much, just a tiny bitsy tweak on it. :)
Funny, you just described how the WW2 pilots dealt with flak at an airfield. One pass, haul A**. They'd get as low as they could as they exited the field. And they didn't go back for a second pass.
Kinda sounds like HTC has it right :)
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I too think the ack is as appropriate as it's ever been.
You cannot presume to fly over an enemy field that is protected by ack, as in the real war, and do loopdyloops and expect not to get hit.
I hear my squaddies complain about it alot but I don't get taken down by it much as long as I don't maintain a steady course for too long a little damage is all I seem to take. Oh, and don't try to vulch while the ack is still up...:noid
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Funny, you just described how the WW2 pilots dealt with flak at an airfield. One pass, haul A**. They'd get as low as they could as they exited the field. And they didn't go back for a second pass.
Kinda sounds like HTC has it right :)
if only it indiscriminately killed friend or foe in the air. once it's firing at an enemy the missed shots should kill friendlies as well if they happen to be struck by it.
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It already does that Storch
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Originally posted by GooseAW
I too think the ack is as appropriate as it's ever been.
You cannot presume to fly over an enemy field that is protected by ack, as in the real war, and do loopdyloops and expect not to get hit.
I hear my squaddies complain about it alot but I don't get taken down by it much as long as I don't maintain a steady course for too long a little damage is all I seem to take. Oh, and don't try to vulch while the ack is still up...:noid
You mentioned the underlying theme in this thread.
"I can't vulch with the ack as tough as it is!"
Which was the point of it after all :)
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Originally posted by storch
if only it indiscriminately killed friend or foe in the air. once it's firing at an enemy the missed shots should kill friendlies as well if they happen to be struck by it.
Originally posted by hitech
It already does that Storch
Yes, but a bit more in depth; any mannable round that doesn't hit an enemy is null and void. No damage is done anywhere; no killshooter, no friendly fire. However, anything an auto-ack hits is damaged, friend or foe. I'm not sure if that's true with objects, however (ie if you sit in a chute behind an enemy hanger, if that enemy hanger is damaged by the enemy auto ack).
The easiest way to experience this is to attack slow-speed bombers under fire from a task force's automatic 5" shells. They'll pop you too.