Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on June 03, 2007, 06:25:42 PM
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Don't think i've ever seen AH down three times in a week.
I'm getting the shakes here.
Please HT, buy a generator or sumptin' so we don't suffer from withdraw.
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I just figured Skuzzy finally snapped.
"I JUST CANT TAKE THEIR CRAP ANYMORE!!! WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH THEY WHINE WHEN I TRIP OVER ALL THE CORDS IN THE BUILDING!! MWAHAHA!!!!"
:D
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I saw where there were some bad thunderstorms in the Dallas area this morning (I live in neighboring Arkansas)...when AH was totally down, it became apparent to me that the folks in Grapevine do not have a back-up generator...
It's not 1980 anymore...
Today, natural gas back-up generators aren't all that expensive anymore. They kick in when there is a power outage and kick off when it's over.
Even the dinky, local, "dollar-a-hollar" 3.6 kW local radio station has one.
It might be worth the investment.
68ROX
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I'm sure they're going to run right out and get a generator so we can keep up the nagging.
They probably enjoyed finally getting a day off.
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The withdrawal was harsh for me..How long did it last like couple of hours?
I didnt know what to do....
Found myself pacing back n forth with visions of a 109 disenigrating a spitfire 200 in front of it....
Had to sit down, relax, and pick up a book...:(
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Can I make a suggestion? Get an answering machine and leave it on announce only in regards to downtimes, or get an alternate site not connected to HTC to let us know.
For a second I thought Skuzzy ran to Brazil with the monthly income. :)
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Originally posted by Platano
The withdrawal was harsh for me..How long did it last like couple of hours?
:(
it was down all the way through "normal office hours" for me
if it wasnt sunday, i might think there was a conspiracy...;)
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Hmm, power outage and all HT needs to do is buy a generator to solve the problem? What about everything downstream from them Also taken out :D
Guys, the power went out in a region, no extreme measures need to be taken. And Answering Machines need power too!
:rofl
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It probably wouldn't matter if they got a generator, as their uplink would probably go down after a few hours of power-out.
It would be nice to have an alternate place to get info on the game status.
I immediately looked at weather.com when I noticed the site was down, and sure enough, nasty storm cell had passed through about 2 hours before.
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They were down for some 7 hours, that I noticed.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
I saw where there were some bad thunderstorms in the Dallas area this morning (I live in neighboring Arkansas)...when AH was totally down, it became apparent to me that the folks in Grapevine do not have a back-up generator...
It's not 1980 anymore...
Today, natural gas back-up generators aren't all that expensive anymore. They kick in when there is a power outage and kick off when it's over.
Even the dinky, local, "dollar-a-hollar" 3.6 kW local radio station has one.
It might be worth the investment.
68ROX
also 68 this is hurricane moth if im not mitaken evrything is dicouted for hurricane supplies like generators for instance it may just be in florida but I know that it is hurricane moth
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Originally posted by WMLute
Don't think i've ever seen AH down three times in a week.
I'm getting the shakes here.
Please HT, buy a generator or sumptin' so we don't suffer from withdraw.
Yea most of them had to actually TALK to thier wives, or play with thier kids, or do yard work, etc.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
I saw where there were some bad thunderstorms in the Dallas area this morning (I live in neighboring Arkansas)...when AH was totally down, it became apparent to me that the folks in Grapevine do not have a back-up generator...
It's not 1980 anymore...
Today, natural gas back-up generators aren't all that expensive anymore. They kick in when there is a power outage and kick off when it's over.
Even the dinky, local, "dollar-a-hollar" 3.6 kW local radio station has one.
It might be worth the investment.
68ROX
"Dollar-a-hollar"
LMAO
Yeah, I checked the site around 10:45am EST before I went to church and they were down then. They were down for more than 8 hours or so.
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It's still a video game guys. Go outside. Play with your kids. Start a new hobby during the down time!
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Life must have been just terrible before the internet!:rolleyes:
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I have a hard time believing they host the game servers and website locally at the office.
Why they wouldn't use a normal data center is beyond me.
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from my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong the game runs on a remote host and the boards run through the office in grapevine.
We've had several weeks of severe thunderstorms one right after another in this area. The last one must have caused power outages at both places.
All things considered I was busy enough today that it barely registered.
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While I was disapointed at teh outage, it was not really a bad thing. I played with my daughter and hung out with my lovely wife (even after the years spent together she still makes my knees weak) and just before work, I even continued working on my model p38J that I am building (it comes with decals for a metalic skinned bird, I am woring on making it Olive Drab). So yeah, while I do greatly love this game, it in no way is a substitute for the finer things in life (spending time with the fore mentioned wife and youngins, and being a family guy in general) :aok
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Have no kids, live alone, it was a rainy day off and planned to waste it flying.
Oh well, just plugged in Medieval II: Total War and went a-conquering for a few hours.
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Tool Shedders hit the power station just to tick off the furballers....
:noid
Regards,
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Originally posted by MWL
Tool Shedders hit the power station just to tick off the furballers....
:noid
Regards,
I've been found out!!!
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HTC should move to NYC :D :aok :D
Then this sorta thing wouldnt happen :D
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I just logged into Call of Duty and had fun pwning the Bolsheviks.
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Originally posted by Platano
HTC should move to NYC :D :aok :D
Then this sorta thing wouldnt happen :D
Wasnt there a huge power outage for on the east coast for like a week a few years back. A week w/o AH, I think alot of people will have mental breakdowns.
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I had a wonderful day. Took the family sailing and even took a dip in the ocean (brrrr)
Thx mr. blackout for giving me a day IRL :)
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Originally posted by ROC
Hmm, power outage and all HT needs to do is buy a generator to solve the problem? What about everything downstream from them Also taken out :D
Guys, the power went out in a region, no extreme measures need to be taken. And Answering Machines need power too!
:rofl
Telephone lines do not normally go down in a power outage. So yes, a small automatic transfer generator powered by natural gas to avoid refueling problems, coupled with a UPS would keep the server up and running.
Then the only thing that would bring the system down is if the telephone lines went down or the gas line ruptured.
And as a side benefit, the excess power from the generator could power the refrigerator and keep the beer cold. ;)
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Who want to try AH with a server plugged on a 56k modem ?
not me :)
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Originally posted by straffo
Who want to try AH with a server plugged on a 56k modem ?
not me :)
I don't think the server is on that kind of telephone line. :lol
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You cannot just slap in a generator into a commercial property. There are zoning restrictions which have to be met (a concrete slab is required, along with a fenced area to hide it, just for starters) and we do not own the building. Just FYI.
The weather has been unusually active this last week. We usually get hit with this once a year. Looks like we have a couple more days to weather before returning to the normal Texas weather patterns.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You cannot just slap in a generator into a commercial property. There are zoning restrictions which have to be met (a concrete slab is required, along with a fenced area to hide it, just for starters) and we do not own the building. Just FYI.
The weather has been unusually active this last week. We usually get hit with this once a year. Looks like we have a couple more days to weather before returning to the normal Texas weather patterns.
Thread pwned by skuzzy :lol
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Originally posted by Larry
Wasnt there a huge power outage for on the east coast for like a week a few years back. A week w/o AH, I think alot of people will have mental breakdowns.
No TK it was only for like the whole afternoon and it returned by midnight...
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:confused: i thought it was because someone was tripping over the server cord :noid
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You cannot just slap in a generator into a commercial property. There are zoning restrictions which have to be met (a concrete slab is required, along with a fenced area to hide it, just for starters) and we do not own the building. Just FYI.
The weather has been unusually active this last week. We usually get hit with this once a year. Looks like we have a couple more days to weather before returning to the normal Texas weather patterns.
Well then....
(http://www.windstreampower.com/images/humangenerator.jpg)
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:rofl
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Originally posted by Platano
HTC should move to NYC :D :aok :D
Then this sorta thing wouldnt happen :D
New York City!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????
Get a rope.
:D
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
before returning to the normal Texas weather patterns.
:aok
Only us Texans will understand the evilness and hidden humor with this statement. :rofl
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It still amazes me how people think a generator will fix storm related outages.
Natural gas for the generator, pumped with what? uh...e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y? A tank would not be the perfect answer because of the amount of fuel needed to keep the system running.
A backup phone system? Hmmm...there it is again....e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y! How long will your energizers last before they have to be changed?
Realize something folks, if your power goes off it is safe to assume that:
A: Your computer is off.
B: Your cable connection is dead(amplifiers have limited battery backup)
C: Your telephone is or will shortly be dead(junction points have limited battery backup)
D: Gas systems cant pump gas if there is no electricity..i.e.pumping stations use ELECTRIC pumps
If all of that happens, take a moment and be thankful that the power companies have folks out working in the storm to restore power. It could be a lot like the phone companies who are generally given 24-48 hours by state legislatures to make repairs.
I know there are other electric workers on this site, ask them. If HTC was down 7 hours due to a storm, so be it, a fishing I will go!
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Originally posted by SIM
It still amazes me how people think a generator will fix storm related outages.
Natural gas for the generator, pumped with what? uh...e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y? A tank would not be the perfect answer because of the amount of fuel needed to keep the system running.
A backup phone system? Hmmm...there it is again....e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y! How long will your energizers last before they have to be changed?
Realize something folks, if your power goes off it is safe to assume that:
A: Your computer is off.
B: Your cable connection is dead(amplifiers have limited battery backup)
C: Your telephone is or will shortly be dead(junction points have limited battery backup)
D: Gas systems cant pump gas if there is no electricity..i.e.pumping stations use ELECTRIC pumps
If all of that happens, take a moment and be thankful that the power companies have folks out working in the storm to restore power. It could be a lot like the phone companies who are generally given 24-48 hours by state legislatures to make repairs.
I know there are other electric workers on this site, ask them. If HTC was down 7 hours due to a storm, so be it, a fishing I will go!
I spent the afternoon workin on a couple of airplane models, defragged the HD, did some laundry, TS Barry was passing through so any outdoor stuff was out. Watched Flying Leathernecks...all in all a great afternoon.
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Originally posted by NHawk
Then the only thing that would bring the system down is if the telephone lines went down or the gas line ruptured.
Hurrrrr???
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Natural gas for the generator, pumped with what? uh...e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y? A tank would not be the perfect answer because of the amount of fuel needed to keep the system running.
Unlike upstate SC, we do not use tanks for natural gas, works just fine when the powers out. The other issues skuzzy mentioned would be the problem.
Telephones have always worked when the powers out too, unless you have a cordless phone with a base station that needs power.
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lmao what do Telephone Lines have to do with the Power Needed to supply the Server, the Router, the Hubs, Answering Machines? When your power goes out, and your phone works, can YOU get online?
Nhawk, your solution works, if Every Link in the network chain had a backup generator. They don't. Even if HT did, and the next link in their chain was down as well, they are stuffed.
Come on people, it was a power outage for crying out loud, they happen
:rofl
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Originally posted by SIM
It still amazes me how people think a generator will fix storm related outages.
Natural gas for the generator, pumped with what? uh...e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y? A tank would not be the perfect answer because of the amount of fuel needed to keep the system running.
A backup phone system? Hmmm...there it is again....e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y! How long will your energizers last before they have to be changed?
Realize something folks, if your power goes off it is safe to assume that:
A: Your computer is off.
B: Your cable connection is dead(amplifiers have limited battery backup)
C: Your telephone is or will shortly be dead(junction points have limited battery backup)
D: Gas systems cant pump gas if there is no electricity..i.e.pumping stations use ELECTRIC pumps
If all of that happens, take a moment and be thankful that the power companies have folks out working in the storm to restore power. It could be a lot like the phone companies who are generally given 24-48 hours by state legislatures to make repairs.
I know there are other electric workers on this site, ask them. If HTC was down 7 hours due to a storm, so be it, a fishing I will go!
Sim, I don't know where you live but when electricity goes out here phone works no matter how long the power is out and so does natural gas.
When power went out last winter I was cozy warm with a natural gas fireplace.
One of my first jobs was designing transfer panels that automatically switch to generator power when the main power goes down. And those systems are still used today by data centers, hospitals, police stations, phone companies, homes and thousands of other places.
Now if you are talking about a nation wide power outage, that could be a problem. But for a local power outage, it was a legitimate suggestion except for the reasons Skuzzy stated. Do some research next time.
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Do some research next time.
hehe SIM probably made that post from his laptop, while out restoring power, which is what he does for the power company.
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Originally posted by Platano
The withdrawal was harsh for me..How long did it last like couple of hours?
I didnt know what to do....
Found myself pacing back n forth with visions of a 109 disenigrating a spitfire 200 in front of it....
Had to sit down, relax, and pick up a book...:(
u know how to read? hehe
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Originally posted by ROC
hehe SIM probably made that post from his laptop, while out restoring power, which is what he does for the power company.
I won't even go there. :rofl
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As pointed out, doesn't matter if HTC had a generator, their ISP might not. Any number of the 18 hops from MY ip to HTCs ip could not have a generator. Say the last 8 are near HTC. HTC's might be up and running, but none of the others. Or perhaps 2 of them have generators. Or 5. Or 6. Only takes 1 region to be without power for all hubs, switches, computers, relays, and what-not to go down.
I agree: It happens. Deal with it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
As pointed out, doesn't matter if HTC had a generator, their ISP might not. Any number of the 18 hops from MY ip to HTCs ip could not have a generator. Say the last 8 are near HTC. HTC's might be up and running, but none of the others. Or perhaps 2 of them have generators. Or 5. Or 6. Only takes 1 region to be without power for all hubs, switches, computers, relays, and what-not to go down.
I agree: It happens. Deal with it.
HTC uses ATT&T IIRC. ATT friggin' BETTER have backup power supplies. One would think.
I started this thread more tongue 'n cheek than anything. I might say that putting the BBS on a server not in Dallas might be a good call. A "just in case" type thing. If I can't fly, at least I can whine about it. Errrrr.... Hmmmm... Maybe that is WHY the BBS is not in seperat location come to think 'bout it.
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I didn't know it was a power outage at the time. I did a traceroute using PingTrace and all the ATT routers were down. I thought AT&T was taking a dump on us.
Apparently, they don't have backup power either! :P
EDIT: typo
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Originally posted by WMLute
HTC uses ATT&T IIRC. ATT friggin' BETTER have backup power supplies. One would think.
I started this thread more tongue 'n cheek than anything. I might say that putting the BBS on a server not in Dallas might be a good call. A "just in case" type thing. If I can't fly, at least I can whine about it. Errrrr.... Hmmmm... Maybe that is WHY the BBS is not in seperat location come to think 'bout it.
What I know of copper data stuff (depending on the SLA), usually the telco providing the local loop will have some sort of battery backup to power the smartjacks from the local station. However, I don't know if they are designed to hold up for 8 hours. The T-1s I've dealt with in local outage scenarios usually held out for a couple of hours, no more.
Everything on your side of the smartjack is your responsibility.
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If the power goes out in your house or office, the phones still get the power they need through the phone line.
At the phone company office there is an extensive battery system, as well as a backup generator, to supply power during a power failure. If the power goes out, the batteries and generators keep the office fully powered. Therefore, all of your phones are fully powered as well.
I don't know of any phone company still running on batteries alone. But, that doesn't mean there aren't any. :)
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Originally posted by WMLute
...I started this thread more tongue 'n cheek than anything....
And see the trouble you caused! ;)
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NHawk,
You designed transfer panels......Wow guess that makes you and expert on something. Well its something........
What you dont know is what happens during an power outage, on any level beyond sitting on your butt in front of a cozy warm gas fire....
Now, granted, phone companies have backup generators at their major locations. But answer this for me, why do they have power hookups on junction buildings on the circuits? Hmmmm, think they have enough trucks with generators to hit each and everyone of them? Simple answer is this.....NO!
What they do is make sure the lines to hospitals/fire departments/police stations and other critical services are on for the emergency. If your lucky to be on one of those circuits I can see where your phone hasnt gone out during a storm. Otherwise, your wrong. You might have an opinion, but so does so many others..........
Basically NHawk, your talking out your arse hoping someone is impressed.
And yeah I did go there, Im damned proud of what I do and what I know and youve stepped into my game. Do the job or something along those lines sometime then come back and show what you think you know. Otherwise stay in front of your cozy fire and shut up! You remind me of all the idiots who scream when we want to trim their trees off the lines, and then scream when their power goes out because of the limbs they didnt want cut!
Skuzzy hit the nail on the head with his post regarding a generator. Their situation alone makes getting a generator a pain in the butt.
Generators are very handy overall, but folks I ask everyone who reads this and owns a generator: If your power goes out and the generators running, keep an eye out for those folks working on the power lines. Many so called electricians dont wire the generators into the breaker panel as they should and this allows electricity to backfeed over the service lines from your home. What your doing then is setting a trap for whoever is working on the lines. Im not asking or preaching against generators, but I am asking you to be aware of those folks working on your street and such. If you see them, let them know you have a generator running. You just might keep someone from getting hurt.
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If they have digital phone service, they would need power to it, along with the internet lines. It would be easy to hook up and roll a generator outside temporarily ...and I doubt the other tenants would complain during an outage.
I talked my old boss into using it for his phone and T1 lines for his Limousine business years ago.
I know most outages last just a few hours..but we got hit with a storm last year, that knocked power out for 1-5 days in this area. It saved him lots of money, and he acquired more business than usual because he had a backup.
The cost was $600 for the generator and change for four extension chords.
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Once again NHawk......
I read your note. No you didnt disrespect my profession. You basically showed YOUR ignorance then and have done so with your latest post. As before, do my job, then feel free to spout off about what you THINK you know.
Find your IDs, like I said, maybe, just maybe you'll find someone whos impressed. Not here, theres better things to be impressed with than egos.
Oh, BTW, your appraisal of what happens when a generator is not hooked up right, well I wouldnt work a line with your knowledge in any way. I like being in the land of the living. People like you get killed on my job.
Enough for me......
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Dude i got hit by that storm. I slept through it tho. Theres been small storms building up all day today.
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/Forrest76259/Image094.jpg)
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/Forrest76259/Image093.jpg)
Heres the radar
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/Forrest76259/dop640awfaa.gif)
U can c Gainsville.
I live in Denton County.
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BTW i just looked outside and its getting darker. :eek:
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I bet this thread gets hits now lol
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hold me TAFY!
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Originally posted by ROC
Come on people, it was a power outage for crying out loud, they happen
:rofl
last time i had a power outage was probably 2002.... so maybe america needs to sort its power lines out?
;)
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It was offline again last night, wasn't it.
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Originally posted by SIM
I read your note. No you didnt disrespect my profession. You basically showed YOUR ignorance then and have done so with your latest post. As before, do my job, then feel free to spout off about what you THINK you know.
Find your IDs, like I said, maybe, just maybe you'll find someone whos impressed. Not here, theres better things to be impressed with than egos.
Oh, BTW, your appraisal of what happens when a generator is not hooked up right, well I wouldnt work a line with your knowledge in any way. I like being in the land of the living. People like you get killed on my job.
Enough for me......
Ok, after reading this yes I got really worked up. So, FYI what I posted was my old ID from Commonwealth Edison Station 22, the Zion Nuclear Power Plant. But even blocked out it provided a little more information than I was comfortable with.
So I will post simple diagrams of what I posted verbally before. I would appreciate your comment on what is wrong. And trust me I will back up what I post if needed.
Now, I'm using a pretty common voltage for the final leg to home service. It MAY or MAY NOT be accurate for all areas but it is fairly common. I AM NOT talking about the main transmission lines here.
We'll keep things low and say each home has a constant 3Kw load. So, under normal circumstances this is what common wiring looks like....
(http://www.brewsterbuffalos.com/htc/power1.JPG)
Remember these are simple diagrams. Is this correct or incorrect? If incorrect why?
If during a power outage a generator is hooked up properly is looks like this...
(http://www.brewsterbuffalos.com/htc/power2.JPG)
Is this correct or incorrect? If incorrect why?
Now if the owner fails to disconnect the main service while the generator is hooked up, the first thing that happens is the generator attempts to power the other homes on the circuit. We are IGNORING the step down transformer here....
(http://www.brewsterbuffalos.com/htc/power3.JPG)
Because the surrounding homes overload the generator it would normally either kick out in overload or go up in smoke attempting to provide the 12Kw demand. Is this correct or incorrect? If incorrect why?
Now, put the transformer back in the mix. The step down transformer is now working as a step UP transformer.
(http://www.brewsterbuffalos.com/htc/power4.JPG)
If the generator survived the initial demand and continued to produce power there is a VERY dangerous situation for line workers here.
Under normal circumstances the danger would be for a very short period of time because not only is the generator trying to supply every home on the circuit, it is also feeding the transformer and getting a very high inductive load from that and everything upline from there. The generator would/should fail.
But no matter what amount of time that generator actually provides power, the danger to workers is VERY real. It only takes a millisecond and someone could be hurt or even killed.
Is this correct or incorrect. If incorrect why?
Sim, you're very good with bashing someone verbally and claiming they don't know what they are talking about. So back up your claims with information to the contrary of what I posted. I other words, educate me and others here.
If I can be proven wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But if I'm right, I'd expect the same from you.
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Originally posted by ForrestS
BTW i just looked outside and its getting darker. :eek:
Nightime?:rolleyes:
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what do you think people did for entertainment before television and computers? here's a hint if they couldn't read (as with most of us here who post on this obscure BBS) they warmed the old lady up and consequently had twelve offspring. fire the old lady up, you'll be glad you did.
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They say everything is BIG in Texas, apparently that doesn't cover thier Electrical system.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
They say everything is BIG in Texas, apparently that doesn't cover thier Electrical system.
Well there seems to be global whining when it goes down, so it must be BIG.;)
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Originally posted by Shifty
Well there seems to be global whining when it goes down, so it must be BIG.;)
:rofl
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Originally posted by Anyone
last time i had a power outage was probably 2002.... so maybe america needs to sort its power lines out?
;)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
A summer shower in Texas would probably be considered a flood in England. Until you see what hot and cold temps acting against eachother can do to the atmosphere, you might want to refrain from comment on electrical systems. Our State is well known for it's high winds, large hail, and lightning. :cool:
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hence the winky ;)
i went to a comedy club last week and one of the jokes was about the weather here... vs the US.
normaly the UK has little ppfts and is our weather is a bit like a very camp person (imagin the guy actin gay/camp while doing this part of the joke) he then went onto the "london tornado" which was really just a gust (camp person runnin around stage...) and took the piss outa that.
onto America he mentioned building cities on swamps/hurricane alley.... very clever.... or building cities below the water table, trying to creating the worlds biggest Guinness (black people floating in water = Guinness) oh, and that big crack in the earths skin and deciding to put LA there...
hmmm i supose you have to be there to find it funny lol
however a whole day without power is a bit outrageous.
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YEAH Skuzzy buy a generator. Then increase our monthly subscription to cover the cost of the generator; don't forget the fees to get the zoning approved. Then you need to add in the depreciation cost of that generator and then finally - cost to run that generator (fuel). Lets make the monthly subscription 29.95 and see how many of these whiners will pay for it.
I wounder how many whiners are adults having to figure in every cost? How many of those are small business owners? You ignorant (def. lacking the intelligent information in order to make a reasonable decision) bafoons - haven't you realized that a cost in business or a tax increase business IS NOT PAID for by the business? Its PAID FOR by the users of the products or services rendered!!!!
LOL - prior to this, how many times has HT gone down? Not many!
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The cost was $600 for the generator and change for four extension chords.
I'm responsible for the Disaster Recovery Site for my company, and Skuzzy beat me to it:
Finding commercial property that will even consider letting you maintain a backup generation system is incredibly difficult, and then addressing all the red-tape involved in getting one set up is both a major undertaking and serious investment of time, effort and money. Just fuel storage issues alone can be a nightmare that makes everything else you have to deal with moot. The actual generator can be one of the more insignificant costs depending upon the amount of power needed.
Very much not worth it just to keep a web site online.
NHwk, my generators will attempt to an maintain power for up to 5 seconds even when severely overloaded, and if intermittently overloaded will do so until the inverters heat up to the point where the thermal protection circuit kicks in. (Based on the manual, I've always been careful to never overload it and haven't tested it myself)
Since it only takes a few ma across the heart (and enough voltage to generate the current) - and when you consider that there's a transformer involved and that under adverse weather conditions a lineman is almost certainly working in something less than an ideal, dry workspace - I don't think you can count on the "instant overload kills the generator" as you diagrammed as a "protection".
In an imperfect world with impedance and resistance involved I think that under some conditions a lethal voltage can be generated for a significant period of time.
Regardless, if anyone is using a generator and not using a properly designed and rated transfer switch, they are risking their own lives and property as well as that of others. Some pretty nasty things can happen when power is restored if the generator isn't properly isolated from the grid.
Hopefully, not too many electricians are that stupid - and not too many DIY'ers either.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
....NHwk, my generators will attempt to an maintain power for up to 5 seconds even when severely overloaded, and if intermittently overloaded will do so until the inverters heat up to the point where the thermal protection circuit kicks in. (Based on the manual, I've always been careful to never overload it and haven't tested it myself)
Since it only takes a few ma across the heart (and enough voltage to generate the current) - and when you consider that there's a transformer involved and that under adverse weather conditions a lineman is almost certainly working in something less than an ideal, dry workspace - I don't think you can count on the "instant overload kills the generator" as you diagrammed as a "protection".
In an imperfect world with impedance and resistance involved I think that under some conditions a lethal voltage can be generated for a significant period of time.
Regardless, if anyone is using a generator and not using a properly designed and rated transfer switch, they are risking their own lives and property as well as that of others. Some pretty nasty things can happen when power is restored if the generator isn't properly isolated from the grid.
Hopefully, not too many electricians are that stupid - and not too many DIY'ers either.
Oh I agree 100%, but I've been talking small 5Kw generators. Something more the homeowner would possibly own. And something that small wouldn't withstand a 140% overload PLUS the inductive load of the transformers acting as step up transformers upstream.
And that's why I said just a millisecond of maintained power could injure or kill.
I'm just trying to figure out where some people think my statements are wrong. :)
I don't claim to be perfect. As a matter of fact the worst mistake I made was when I calculated the transformer size while converting 3ph 240v to 3ph 480v (I don't recall the amperage but it was high). A slightly misplaced number led me to believe we had enough power to do it. When the transformer was turned on it was like you see in the movies....every light dimmed in the building. Computers weren't happy at that moment either. From that point on I never did calculations without a calculator. ;)
And that pretty nasty thing that can happen when a generator isn't pulled offline when power is restored IS NASTY. I've seen it happen. I've seen someone go into the hospital with 3rd degree burns from it. And I've seen old style rotary transfer switches act like a plane prop. It's not pretty.
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Originally posted by Anyone
hence the winky ;)
i went to a comedy club last week and one of the jokes was about the weather here... vs the US.
normaly the UK has little ppfts and is our weather is a bit like a very camp person (imagin the guy actin gay/camp while doing this part of the joke) he then went onto the "london tornado" which was really just a gust (camp person runnin around stage...) and took the piss outa that.
onto America he mentioned building cities on swamps/hurricane alley.... very clever.... or building cities below the water table, trying to creating the worlds biggest Guinness (black people floating in water = Guinness) oh, and that big crack in the earths skin and deciding to put LA there...
hmmm i supose you have to be there to find it funny lol
however a whole day without power is a bit outrageous.
let me take this opportunity to remind you that each and every one of those cities/regions you ridicule for their location was located in their settings by a european.
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Originally posted by Larry
Wasnt there a huge power outage for on the east coast for like a week a few years back. A week w/o AH, I think alot of people will have mental breakdowns.
yep...:aok
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Originally posted by NHawk
Is this correct or incorrect. If incorrect why?
Properly installed transfer switch does not allow back-feed. In most of the places that's regulated with building/electric code, requires permit and is properly inspected before taken into operation. The code usually specifies that transfer switch has to be of the same size as building service (same amps) and total load of connected circuits cannot exceed the total load generator is capable of, therefore there's no overloads.
That applies for most backup and alternate power sources including solar systems.
In some states you get paid for any excess power back-feed into the grid (usually solar power systems). Utilities are aware of those and are taken off the grid if necessary during maintenance work.
Few months ago I got installed 16KW standby aircooled natural gas powered generator (200 amps transfer switch) for less than 6K (hardware+installation+permits).
If home owner can do it, so can any company which core business depends on uptime.
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we have a saying in Texas.. if you don't like the weather give it 15 minutes it will change.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Properly installed transfer switch does not allow back-feed. In most of the places that's regulated with building/electric code, requires permit and is properly inspected before taken into operation. The code usually specifies that transfer switch has to be of the same size as building service (same amps) and total load of connected circuits cannot exceed the total load generator is capable of, therefore there's no overloads.
That applies for most backup and alternate power sources including solar systems.
In some states you get paid for any excess power back-feed into the grid (usually solar power systems). Utilities are aware of those and are taken off the grid if necessary during maintenance work.
Few months ago I got installed 16KW standby aircooled natural gas powered generator (200 amps transfer switch) for less than 6K (hardware+installation+permits).
If home owner can do it, so can any company which core business depends on uptime.
2 words: Power diodes
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i down loaded IL2 and for the first time i found out how truly diffacult it was for the true ww2 vets {well sorta}
no icons: i was killed still trying to spot the nme
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Originally posted by ink
i down loaded IL2 and for the first time i found out how truly diffacult it was for the true ww2 vets {well sorta}
no icons: i was killed still trying to spot the nme
A monitor is a poor substitute for the human eye.
Bronk
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Originally posted by storch
let me take this opportunity to remind you that each and every one of those cities/regions you ridicule for their location was located in their settings by a european.
me?
i didn't say it a comedian did...:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Properly installed transfer switch does not allow back-feed. In most of the places that's regulated with building/electric code, requires permit and is properly inspected before taken into operation. The code usually specifies that transfer switch has to be of the same size as building service (same amps) and total load of connected circuits cannot exceed the total load generator is capable of, therefore there's no overloads.
That applies for most backup and alternate power sources including solar systems.
In some states you get paid for any excess power back-feed into the grid (usually solar power systems). Utilities are aware of those and are taken off the grid if necessary during maintenance work.
Few months ago I got installed 16KW standby aircooled natural gas powered generator (200 amps transfer switch) for less than 6K (hardware+installation+permits).
If home owner can do it, so can any company which core business depends on uptime.
Correct a properly installed transfer switch does not backfeed. But, if a homeowner just hooks a small generator to the panel without a transfer switch and does not remove the system from the grid is where a problem could occurr.
And since HTC does not own the property they are handcuffed by the owner and the city.