Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: toonces3 on June 04, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
-
Is anything more debated and hated than the HO on here?
Ok, I need to get this straight. I hate getting HO'd, but I hate it even more when I'm holding my fire, being the good guy and then 200 out I get the PANG PANG PANG oil, blood and fire all over the place.
So here's the questions. 1st, I would suggest that we agree that the first merge, 1v1, nose to nose is a full-on HO. We all hate that.
Second, I've heard that a HO is basically if both aircraft have each other equally in their firing arc. In other words, if I can shoot you in the face, but you cannot bring your guns to bear on me, then I am not HO'ing you.
What about beyond that initial merge? After a nose to nose initial merge, assuming both pilots held their fire, is it ok to HO when passing nose to nose on the second merge?
How about the following scenario: You're engaged 1v1. Soon 2 other enemies are joining the fight. You're outnumbered 3 v 1 so that everytime you maneuver from one opponent, you're facing another. Is it ok to HO one of the enemies ON THE INITIAL MERGE in this circumstance?
I want to be clear on this because I'm getting tired of getting shot in the face holding my fire. I always assume the guy in front of me is going to HO me at the merge and I try to maneuver to avoid it. The best is when the guy shoots 1000 out because then I can simply scoot away. The worst is when the guy is right on your nose before he decides to shoot.
The other night, I got shot right in the face by a very well known, very high ranked pilot...twice. In one case, I, in a zero, followed his P-38 up into a loop. He reversed at the top so that we passed each other vertically nose to nose, my zero nose high, his P-38 nose down, nearly vertical, and as we passed he plastered me at 200 out. It frustrated me because I could have/would have shot him as well, but was holding my fire since we were nose on nose. In fact, I had bumped my nose down a hair to avoid a collision.
So, I want to be clear on the generally accepted conduct of the HO.
Thanks,
Toonces
-
The HO is not the problem. The ace pilotS are.
-
The "HO" that everyone whines about is during the initial merge.
If you are moving your nose so you can avoid a HO but the other guy keeps tracking directly into it.....I say shoot them in the face, because either they are being stupid or are they are planning to HO you instead.
Against the 38, you were past the merge when he shot you, so it wouldn't be considered a "HO". The merge was right when you both pulled into the verticle.....once you guys were going up it was a free for all.
Of course, in real life the other guy would have tried to shoot you in the face at the merge. After all....all's fair in love an war :)
Originally posted by toonces3
Is anything more debated and hated than the HO on here?
Ok, I need to get this straight. I hate getting HO'd, but I hate it even more when I'm holding my fire, being the good guy and then 200 out I get the PANG PANG PANG oil, blood and fire all over the place.
So here's the questions. 1st, I would suggest that we agree that the first merge, 1v1, nose to nose is a full-on HO. We all hate that.
Second, I've heard that a HO is basically if both aircraft have each other equally in their firing arc. In other words, if I can shoot you in the face, but you cannot bring your guns to bear on me, then I am not HO'ing you.
What about beyond that initial merge? After a nose to nose initial merge, assuming both pilots held their fire, is it ok to HO when passing nose to nose on the second merge?
How about the following scenario: You're engaged 1v1. Soon 2 other enemies are joining the fight. You're outnumbered 3 v 1 so that everytime you maneuver from one opponent, you're facing another. Is it ok to HO one of the enemies ON THE INITIAL MERGE in this circumstance?
I want to be clear on this because I'm getting tired of getting shot in the face holding my fire. I always assume the guy in front of me is going to HO me at the merge and I try to maneuver to avoid it. The best is when the guy shoots 1000 out because then I can simply scoot away. The worst is when the guy is right on your nose before he decides to shoot.
The other night, I got shot right in the face by a very well known, very high ranked pilot...twice. In one case, I, in a zero, followed his P-38 up into a loop. He reversed at the top so that we passed each other vertically nose to nose, my zero nose high, his P-38 nose down, nearly vertical, and as we passed he plastered me at 200 out. It frustrated me because I could have/would have shot him as well, but was holding my fire since we were nose on nose. In fact, I had bumped my nose down a hair to avoid a collision.
So, I want to be clear on the generally accepted conduct of the HO.
Thanks,
Toonces
-
There is no "generally accepted conduct of the HO".
-
thanks stu.
I sort of figured that must be the accepted practice. This guy is a very well-known player and I was surprised by the move (twice).
I have no problem with this style of play. I just don't want to get caught not shooting when I should be shooting is all.
I also agree that the HO was widely used in real life. I watched the 'Dogfights' episode with the flying tigers on the history channel the other day. In one fight, the guy puts his nose on the Jap plane and they just shoot away at each other until the Jap plane explodes. Then the flying tiger guy gets this huge vibration, only to find later that all the bullets in the prop have thrown the balance out of wack.
-
If both have a guns solution on each other ... then you are HO.
If one has a solution and the other doesn't ... any shot taken by the guy that has the solution would be considered a deflection shot.
What about beyond that initial merge? After a nose to nose initial merge, assuming both pilots held their fire, is it ok to HO when passing nose to nose on the second merge?
I would say in most cases ... yes ... after the 1st merge it's "on". Now if I know that a certain person is in the area and I believe that I am fighting them, I will pass on any HO (see definition above) shot that is presented and wrestle with him until one gains the 3-9 advantage.
How about the following scenario: You're engaged 1v1. Soon 2 other enemies are joining the fight. You're outnumbered 3 v 1 so that everytime you maneuver from one opponent, you're facing another. Is it ok to HO one of the enemies ON THE INITIAL MERGE in this circumstance?
Anything outside of a 1 v 1 ... the HO, when available, will be dispensed without even blinking. Ya gotta eliminate any and all threats ASAP. Playing with your food outside in a many v 1 engagement ... will get you killed fast.
I was in a 4 v 1 the other day (P-38, 109, 190, Hurri I) ... the Hurri I got an oil hit in an HO situation and the 109 got a PW I think in another HO situation. They all eventaully died to being outmaneuvered in one sense or the other. I felt no remorse for the HOs (they fired HO too).
The other night, I got shot right in the face by a very well known, very high ranked pilot...twice. In one case, I, in a zero, followed his P-38 up into a loop. He reversed at the top so that we passed each other vertically nose to nose, my zero nose high, his P-38 nose down, nearly vertical, and as we passed he plastered me at 200 out. It frustrated me because I could have/would have shot him as well, but was holding my fire since we were nose on nose. In fact, I had bumped my nose down a hair to avoid a collision.
From the description, it sounds like he was trying to "rope" you ... a favorite maneuver for P-38 pilots. I would have been blasting he as he started his flop over the top and would continue even as he faced me ... this I don't consider an HO by either pilot (at the top of a "rope").
-
Avoid the HO shot on the first merge, but not because its "uncool", avoid it because its tactically a poor move. Set up for a lead turn on the first merge, which in the process will most times also allow you to avoid the shot of someone trying for a HO.
After the first merge, or while in a big furball, take ANY and EVERY shot opportunity you think is a good one, no matter what angle.
Then again, sometimes its funny to up an IL2 and just bore into people HO from 1000 out. :D
-
toonces3. Check your PM's.
-
Slapshot-
Excellent explanation. That's more or less how I was playing it, except that I wasn't shooting HO on any merge, not just the initial merge. That got me killed. Won't happen again...now.
Shifty-
Replied.
See ya,
Toonces
-
Originally posted by toonces3
I also agree that the HO was widely used in real life. I watched the 'Dogfights' episode with the flying tigers on the history channel the other day. In one fight, the guy puts his nose on the Jap plane and they just shoot away at each other until the Jap plane explodes. Then the flying tiger guy gets this huge vibration, only to find later that all the bullets in the prop have thrown the balance out of wack.
Don't get fooled by that episode ... If you listened carefully, the Flying Tigers KNEW that their .50 cals reached farther then the Japanese bullets, .50 cals outpowered the IJN machine guns at distance, and most of all ... they KNEW that the front of the P-40s were covered in armor along with bullet-proof windshields ... while the Japanese planes had very little, if any frontal armor. It was suicide for the Japanese to go HO with the P-40 at distance.
Had the IJN had similar machine guns, ballistics, and armor, I doubt very strongly that they would have gone HO as much as they did.
That episode should not be used as an excuse to always HO in a pixelated WWII combat flight sim ... the "dogfight" is what this game is really all about ... it's not a life or death situation, so why not see "what ya can do".
-
Whats to be fooled about? It is a valid.....yet dangerous...tactic.
Any direct head-on merge is dangerous because even though you have them in your sights, they have you in theirs.
The closure rates are so fast that even if you have a firing range advantage, if you miss they will be in range to hit you in a split second.....or you'll ram each other.
If someone is being foolish enough to obviously try to HO you .... give them what they are asking for....and a bloody nose as well.
If you hate HO's it's simple, don't merge head to head with people.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Don't get fooled by that episode ... If you listened carefully, the Flying Tigers KNEW that their .50 cals reached farther then the Japanese bullets, .50 cals outpowered the IJN machine guns at distance, and most of all ... they KNEW that the front of the P-40s were covered in armor along with bullet-proof windshields ... while the Japanese planes had very little, if any frontal armor. It was suicide for the Japanese to go HO with the P-40 at distance.
Had the IJN had similar machine guns, ballistics, and armor, I doubt very strongly that they would have gone HO as much as they did.
That episode should not be used as an excuse to always HO in a pixelated WWII combat flight sim ... the "dogfight" is what this game is really all about ... it's not a life or death situation, so why not see "what ya can do".
-
THE CREATURE WE LOVE TO HATE - THE HO!
HO's
- are very misunderstood, and actually fairplay and occaisonally even useful, particularly when defensive in a many vs. one engagement. There are no rules anyway that say you can't or even shouldn't HO. Anyone who says it's dishonorable is full of whooie! However, it does NOT gain you any respect when used, nor is it a sign of admirable dogfighting skills.
HO's
- whether they are true HO's, or just appear that way to the other pilot due to lag and inability to see the very small angle that makes it a deflection shot and not an HO, are going to be complained about by those other pilots who are gonna scream when they die. Ignore it.
HO's
- actually are a 50/50 proposition of either pilot getting a kill, or being killed. They are the fairest, most equal engagement you can be given by the other pilot, and therefore, the worst one to stay in and try to win.
HO's
- if done repeatedly or almost exclusively by a particular pilot, are a sure sign of a bad OR lazy pilot (essentially the same thing) who's gameID should be "Target#325". More often than not, this is a 1-3 month newb who can't do anything else, or a semi-vet (3-6 months) who doesn't really care to learn ACM and is just whacking his plane up there for the fun of it.
HO's
- can, with roughly +95% probability, be avoid no matter how hard the other pilot wants to face blast you, if you know how.
HO's
- by other pilots then become a good thing for you, a happy thing that you want to see occur as often as possible, as you can now kill them 95% of the time (instead of 50/50) and you die less in the doing.
HO's
- can be avoided very easily with a little knowledge and practice. Once knowing thoroughly how and why to avoid the HO AND get the kill, to die thereafter as a result of an HO means you were mentally on autopilot.
HO's
- are used by me anytime I want to or feel I need to, without regard to my opponent's race, creed, color, religious or lifestyle preference, or the whine he serves with his death as he floats to the ground. However, since learning how to avoid them and still whack the daylights out of the other guy (spoiling his kill is a bonus to killing him masterfully with ACM), I rarily go for the HO anymore. Defensively yes, offensively no.
I will gladly assist anyone who wishes to learn how to avoid the HO monkey, fake the other guy out, turn round on is 6, and shoot his butt down.
This is my mission in life. To open the -
Sloehand Remedial Flight School For Reformed HO Monkeys :cool:
-
I've found that if you find yourself getting face-shot you really just need to re-adjust your merge a bit.
Don't merge so close to him that he can get an easy shot on you. Come in a little to one side, or as I prefer, from a little lower. I ASSUME that in every merge I will find my opponent trying to HO me. NEVER assume that they won't. There are a bunch of sticks in the game that will pass on the HO shot and "fight like a gentleman". When you find one of those consider yourself lucky, but don't ever assume that the unknown icon is one.
If you merge too far away from your opponent you do open up another bag of pain too, so don't get too extreme. Just far enough away so he has to dive or turn to get his shot.
That said, I LOVE it when my opponent tries for the face-shot. It generally means that if I merge looking for an angle's advantage I will have a HUGE head start due to him wasting effort for the face shot. From what I've seen, the HO bandit will die within 3-5 seconds after his face-shot attempt unless he simply blows through and runs away.
I prefer to merge from under my opponent, a little nose-up, and forcing him to push his stick forward to get a face-shot on me. He'll red out or lose me under his nose. I seldom get hit this way (once or twice a month or so...). I'll dive before the merge so I have some speed to maneuver.
If he actually hits me on the merge, it's simply because I screwed up...
If you merge like this and the guy DOESN'T push down for a shot- STOP! Go to plan "B"!!! Especially if he goes nose-up. He knows how to fly and needs a little more "attention". Beware the "rope" here.
I spend almost all my energy maneuvering for a non-HO shot, regardless of whether it is the 1st, 2nd, or 40th merge. There are some HO shots I WILL take though.
If I take someone up on a rope (the "loop" you mentioned concerning the 38)(not a loop, BTW), and have misjudged my opponents E state, leaving him still nose-up, I will sometimes shoot him anyway. Especially if I've roped 2 or 3 planes up, and don't want to waste time setting him up again. Sometimes I dive on a rope victim that is nose-down, only to find he is actually nose-up. OOPS! I might shoot then too. 1v1 in this situation I will 9 times outta 10 not shoot, but instead adjust so he can't shoot me and try again.
2v1, 3v1, 5v1- I'm gonna shoot anyone dumb enough to get in front of me, and fast. I don't care which way he's pointed. HO shots aren't gentlemanly- well neither is gangin'!! If they want to gang you, they deserve what they get. 2v1 I still avoid the HO, until times get desperate. Mainly because the risk of me taking damage is too high. Even in a 4 or 5v1 I'm going to avoid them, simply because I do actually plan on winning and don't want to be damaged. I don't try for the HO, but will take it if offered...
I will also take front-quarter shots, depending on the situation. I fly only F4U's, often against better turning planes. I can't stay in a turn-fight too long, and am often presented with shots straight into the cockpit, etc. Not HO, but they could be pulling toward me, which makes them likely to be "called" HO. More of an SA issue, really, on the part of the opponent.
MtnMan
-
It's all bout pursuit.
Lead pursuit = aiming your plane at the front of the bad guy
Pure pursuit = aiming your plane in plane, or equal with the bad guy
Lag pursuit = aiming your plane at the back of the bad guy
Most pilots I fight go for Lead pursuit. Hence all the Head On's
Me... I go for Lag. I try to position myself beind the nme's.
Once I am saddled I go to Pure pursuit, and for a deflection shot I switch to Lead.
(gawd bless you Robert Shaw)
-
Originally posted by Sloehand
I will gladly assist anyone who wishes to learn how to avoid the HO monkey, fake the other guy out, turn round on is 6, and shoot his butt down.
Oh please show me. Then post the film so you and the rest of the people that think it is easy to avoid it and that you get an easy kill after the HOer misses the shot can see how false these statements are.
Then we will try it with you engaged with 2 other guys and me bringing my lala in for HO pass. I expect to see you easylly avoid me and then kill me a few seconds latter.
When and where am I getting my lesson?
-
Originally posted by toonces3
The other night, I got shot right in the face by a very well known, very high ranked pilot...twice. In one case, I, in a zero, followed his P-38 up into a loop. He reversed at the top so that we passed each other vertically nose to nose, my zero nose high, his P-38 nose down, nearly vertical, and as we passed he plastered me at 200 out. It frustrated me because I could have/would have shot him as well, but was holding my fire since we were nose on nose. In fact, I had bumped my nose down a hair to avoid a collision.
This is not a HO, it is a vertical reverse maneuver which usually means death and destruction for the lower, less maneuverable plane. It happens that the speed is so low that even the pilot performing the reverse can not avoid falling down on top on his adversary and in some cases he realize too late that he should have pulled away (target fascination).
How to avoid a vertical reverse? Well, don't follow him up handsomehunk! :p
I use the vertical a lot and E fight when I can, many times I've been guilty of the above. Unable to avoid collision or realizing too late what is about to happen. Remember also a HO is a HO not a high deflection angle shot. HO is essentially playing chicken, with guns.
Edit: Spellcheck! :D
-
When I'm on the bottom, I lose. When I'm on the top, I win, unless the guy turns his wings.
Now this is the direction I go, UP if I am above or DOWN if I am below. The fact that I still get hit AT LEAST once a night tells me that people are purposely ramming me! HA, go figure. But, methinks it also has to do with the code being a little behind and 'too late' to matter.
I know it's fun to shoot at people when you have center cannons and the other guy you know doesn't but for gods sake please pull away after a bit people, ramming sucks.
-
If all i see of any enemy plane is prop and blazing guns i'll try to dive out of the way and get below the merge, but sometimes you cant easily do that. If i see a guy 500 out guns blazing i'll teach them a lesson, kick hard rudder and spray them tip to tail.
What i consider an unacceptable HO are the ones that seem to ONLY come at you head on, dont try to get on your 6 or fight for angles they will zoom off and come back head on every time. I have been acused of hoing but when i'm looking down on a nme and can see the top of the plane, even if we are flying 180 degrees apart i'll take the shot IF i'm not going to give up position.
But there is nothing nicer to see then a spixteen explode under the 38's arsenal on the ho.
-
What vortex said. He had more E then you, he went up, you followed, he nosed over and got you. Its called a rope-a-dope or just a rope. I can bet you were less then 100mph about to stall. It is my faverite move you have more speed and watch the guy zoom up with you, right when you see him start to loose it roll over and get your easy kill.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Oh please show me. Then post the film so you and the rest of the people that think it is easy to avoid it and that you get an easy kill after the HOer misses the shot can see how false these statements are.
Then we will try it with you engaged with 2 other guys and me bringing my lala in for HO pass. I expect to see you easylly avoid me and then kill me a few seconds latter.
When and where am I getting my lesson?
Where did you pick up that burr under your saddle Dedalos? Calm down and don't take things quite so literally or personally. A few manners wouldn't hurt you either.
It is fairly easy to avoid most HO's, and you know it. Especially if the other guy thinks you're going to stay in and go for the HO yourself. My statistical probabilites may be an over-embellishment, but were actually intended to strongly represent that you can avoid the greater majority of HO's and die less from them.
As for easy kills, I don't think I said that specifically. It all takes work and skill, but if you surpise an HO monkey who is too focused on getting his shot, do proper avoidance and pull into a good Lead Turn, you will gain initial angles on him as he adjusts both his tactics and position, all of which gives you some small advantage and maybe the kill.
However, you may be right in your skeptisism as at this point, at good pilot wil still put up a good fight against you and nothing is assured. BUT against most of the dedicated HO monkeys we are talking about, the edge may be even more significantly in your favor.
I know for a fact, my skill and score immediately improved (both cause I killed a few more and died a bit less in the HO engagement) by changing my tactic to NOT go for the HO more often than I do, and learning from other vets how to more successfully avoid the HO. My squad did extensive practise sessions on just this thing, where I learned a better move than I was previously using.
Finally, while I tried to keep the tone of my post friendly, funny and informative, my offer to assist in helping someone learn what l currently know (however much or little it may be - everything is worth exactly what you pay for it) about this topic was both friendly and sincere.
So, frankly, get some manners (I have dogs more polite than you) and quit being a horse's patoot, even when you don't agree.
-
Originally posted by clerick
What i consider an unacceptable HO are the ones that seem to ONLY come at you head on, dont try to get on your 6 or fight for angles they will zoom off and come back head on every time.
In some plane match-ups that's all there is if it's one-on-one. No decent 190 pilot for instance is going to turn-fight a Spit to try to get on his six. One-on-one even angles would be tough in this match-up. If the 190 wants to engage then the only viable option is to get enough seperation to turn back, likely with the chasing Spit now coming directly at him, and use those big cannons in a HO attempt.
Spit vs LA or P-38 vs F4U or 190 vs 190 or something that match up a little better is a different matter.
-
P.S. Dedalos, you suck at sarcasm! My 12 year old nephew has more wit than that.
-
Originally posted by WMLute
It's all bout pursuit.
Lead pursuit = aiming your plane at the front of the bad guy
Pure pursuit = aiming your plane in plane, or equal with the bad guy
Lag pursuit = aiming your plane at the back of the bad guy
Most pilots I fight go for Lead pursuit. Hence all the Head On's
Me... I go for Lag. I try to position myself beind the nme's.
Once I am saddled I go to Pure pursuit, and for a deflection shot I switch to Lead.
(gawd bless you Robert Shaw)
Yep, you got it.
-
Originally posted by Sloehand
P.S. Dedalos, you suck at sarcasm! My 12 year old nephew has more wit than that.
Well, all I did was say that your statements are wrong. Check your texts and then check back with the dogs to see who needs some manners.
To make it simple, you are spreading BS. Lots of people spreading BS makes new guys think that the BS you are spreading are facts. I am willing to let you show yourself that what you are spreading is BS and maybe you will learn something out of it. If I am wrong, you will post the films and everyone may lern something from them. I can help you with that.
Unfortunatly, I cant help you with your manners :rofl
-
Most of the time the HO occurs because people are flying the "gun sight" and not the "plane". By that i mean, most if not all of the fight is seen from their twelve and six views. This is obvious by the often most used tactic of ho-run-turn-ho-repeat until one of you is in tower.
I've been noticing after i started filming some of my fights, the ones i tend to win(damn few btw:D) are the ones where i was in their gun sight for a majority of the fight. They would put themselves in a disadvantaged position just to keep me in their twelve or six view while i was working to improve my position or E by climbing or maneuvering my plane all the while keeping them in sight throughout using all the views
It's not an instinct to be able to pull a split S or immelman or chandel while keeping a bandit in sight throughout all of the available views and do the maneuver properly. That takes a lot of practice. A lot of us take that for granted now, but one of the hardest things for me to learn how to do, way back in the day in WBs, was to learn how to fight while looking everywhere but where the plane was going after the initial merge. Something we should be teaching the newer ones how to do instead of just letting rip with insults on 200. Jmho, ymmv.
However in a 2 or more on 1, anytime you come anywhere near the pointy end of my plane while I'm totally defensive, you're getting sprayed. That's just how it is, you horde monkey bastages.:t
-
"What ever makes him whine apparently works well." :D
-C+
-
The HO IS easy to avoid. Don't be silly. All you have to do is turn ever so slightly, or apply a slight amount of elevator, and you've denied him his HO.
You've turned it into a deflection shot, which isn't an HO. Now you need to dodge his deflection shot, hehe. That might not be as easy. A high deflection shot is a tough shot to make though, and as such would seem easy to avoid. My experience says it IS easy to avoid. Could I teach someone else to avoid it? Been there, done that- it works just as well for others as well. They also feel it's easy to avoid, and get excited about the "easy kill" when someone tries to HO them.
If you don't both have a shot solution, how can it be an HO?
If he chooses to take his deflection shot, and you can successfully dodge it, he is very often pretty dang easy to get behind. For one, he MUST pull lead to actually hit you, which sets him up for an overshoot. Easy to get behind him on an overshoot? Generally, yes. Can you catch him and kill him? Maybe not.
Two, if he's opening the fight with an HO, it generally says something about his skill level.
From my experience, the folks that open with an HO ARE easy to dodge, easy to get behind, and will OFTEN make another mistake that makes them easy to kill. Even if it's in a F4U ( my only ride) vs spit, hurri, LA, 190, P51, etc...
Seriously, if I die to more than 2-3 HO's a month I'd be surprised. If you counted the ones that dive an at mach 3 to pick me during a 1v1 it might be a bit higher, but I count those as picks more than HO's. Even those are really my own fault anyway, either through an error in SA, judgement, or by taking too long to finish the 1v1.
Ramming? On purpose? LOL! By the very nature of the collision model I seriously doubt that is even possible. I ran an experiment in the DA with Saber, and have film that basically proves that where you see the other guy, IS NOT where he actually is. How can you purposely RAM something that isn't there?
Our experiment was an attempt to land an F4U on top of a B24. We tried to land so that the landing gear would catch over the leading edge of the B24 wing, and hopefully "piggyback". Didn't work, for several reasons.
The main reason was because from the F4U perspective, the F4U wheels were touching the B24's wing (even had the puff of smoke like when touching a runway), they then go "through" the wing though, and the F4U suffers a colloision, and falls apart.
From the B24 pilots perspective, the F4U was still about 50-100 feet BEHIND his stabilizer, and NEVER even came in contact with the B24 at all. The "collision" gave the B24 no damage, as is fair, since he showed no contact.
Any guesses as to the result had the F4U intentionally tried to ram the B24? A dead F4U, and a healthy B24.
-
Originally posted by mtnman
How can you purposely RAM something that isn't there?
Can you shoot it?
-
Of course Dedalos, hehe.
That's because HTC transfers hit data from your PC to the "hit" planes PC.
So if you shoot, and see hits, your PC tells the other PC to "act dead". The "hit" plane can (and likely will) see "misses" that are actually "hits" from your perspective. That's ok, the system is set up so if the shooter sees hits, they count as hits on both sides, regardless of how the hit plane saw it.
That's not how the collision model works though. You're discussing two very seperate things here. The collision model (as opposed to the "damage" model) has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards. Do a search and "read all about it".
This thread is more about HO's.
To that end, I have found a short film showing a very simple "Ho Remedy". It follows the formula of- Turn the HO into a deflection shot that he will miss, get behind the bad guy, shoot him down.
Total film length is 28 seconds. Can anybody post it? I'll email it if I have a volunteer...
MtnMan