Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bj229r on June 05, 2007, 08:26:39 PM

Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: bj229r on June 05, 2007, 08:26:39 PM
I mean, they're made of F#%%N paper--I can flame a niki or zeke, guy drives into ack, does a go-around, drops wheels...lands, towers. My P47 gets flamed...20 seconds I'm in tower:furious
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Karnak on June 05, 2007, 08:54:59 PM
No, they are not paper.  They were made out of a stronger, lighter aluminium alloy that was subject to long term corrosion.

As to why a given aircraft burns longer, who knows.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: 1K3 on June 05, 2007, 09:45:27 PM
Ki 61 and Ki 84 offer the best protection.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: bj229r on June 05, 2007, 10:11:36 PM
I never seem to shoot those, always nikis or zekes
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Karnak on June 05, 2007, 10:20:28 PM
N1Ks were fully protected too.

The Japanese aircraft that fit the stereo type are the A6M (A6M2 and A6M3 in particular, they start getting some protection after that), Ki-43, G4M1 and G4M2 'Betty' (G4M3 was well protected, but woefully late), Ki-45 and Ki-49.
Title: Re: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 05, 2007, 10:41:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Why do Jap panes burn so long?


(http://www.nafdc.com/sake_logo.gif)
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: OOZ662 on June 05, 2007, 11:46:04 PM
:lol At least you can still make me laugh, ratt.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Gulp on June 06, 2007, 11:51:58 AM
Magnesium
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Krusty on June 06, 2007, 12:37:24 PM
n1k2s catch fire easily enough if you shoot 'em hard enough, at least in this game. Kis seem to be the most fire resistant, and seem to take more damage than n1k2s. Zeros are undeniably the weakest of the lot.


P.S. I wouldn't say the later planes were "fully protected" -- that brings to mind images of P47s, IL2s, Fw190s with special armor so that bombers can't shoot them down. Just say they have "more" protection.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Shuckins on June 06, 2007, 12:52:37 PM
While the structure of late-war Japanese planes was undeniably more rugged than that of the Zeke, they still could not quite match the ruggedness of American aircraft such as the Hellcat, Corsair, or Jug.  These U.S. aircraft were classified by the Japanese as heavy fighters, while the Frank and George were considered to be middle-weight fighter aircraft.

Pilot armor was another area where some Japanese fighters fell short.  The N1K2 George, for instance, had no pilot armor.  With the exception of bullet-proof glass in the front pane of the canopy, pilot protection was of the passive variety and could not compare to that of American aircraft.

I have no data about the pilot protection provided in the Frank or Jack.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 06, 2007, 01:11:32 PM
Missing the essential point.  Japanese birds like the Zero, did not have self sealing fuel tanks.  fuel burns quit well when it's lit up.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 06, 2007, 01:18:20 PM
Japanese planes reportedly used higher pressure O2 systems as well. Several pilots said they aimed at the area where the high pressure O2 bottles were, in hopes of starting a fire and using the high pressure O2 to accelerate it. Combine  high pressure O2 with non self sealing fuel tanks and you have a recipe for fried rice kites.

Of course, maybe the question is why they last so long while they're blazing through the sky engulfed in flames. I don't know about the damage model, but the reason they fly and fight is because virtual pilots don't get burned, and they don't get blinded or scared by fire.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Saxman on June 06, 2007, 03:49:40 PM
Fire in here also doesn't degrade the effectiveness of control surfaces, or affect lift generated by the airfoil, or weaken the internal framework, or...
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 06, 2007, 03:52:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Fire in here also doesn't degrade the effectiveness of control surfaces, or affect lift generated by the airfoil, or weaken the internal framework, or...


Yeah, fire is an all or nothing thing here. There's no damage until catastrophic failure.

On the flip side, you cannot use the fire suppression systems on bombers either, nor can you dive and blow fire out.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 06, 2007, 04:33:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Japanese planes reportedly used higher pressure O2 systems as well. Several pilots said they aimed at the area where the high pressure O2 bottles were, in hopes of starting a fire and using the high pressure O2 to accelerate it. Combine  high pressure O2 with non self sealing fuel tanks and you have a recipe for fried rice kites.

Of course, maybe the question is why they last so long while they're blazing through the sky engulfed in flames. I don't know about the damage model, but the reason they fly and fight is because virtual pilots don't get burned, and they don't get blinded or scared by fire.


In McGuire's Combat Tactics in the SWP, he recommends aiming for the O2 tanks that were located behind the cockpit in the Zeke.  His reasoning was if the explosion of the O2 tanks didn't kill the pilot, the resulting fire will.


ack-ack
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 06, 2007, 04:38:37 PM
Boyington alway said hit the Zeke in the cockpit from high and behind, and they burn like celluloid.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: OOZ662 on June 06, 2007, 04:52:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
you cannot use the fire suppression systems on bombers either


I don't know if bombers had fire suppression on their fuel tanks. They were on the engines, though. However, AH engines do not catch fire; only the fuel tanks.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 06, 2007, 05:11:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
I don't know if bombers had fire suppression on their fuel tanks. They were on the engines, though. However, AH engines do not catch fire; only the fuel tanks.


True.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: RATTFINK on June 06, 2007, 05:16:14 PM
(http://www.sake.com/img/248.jpg)
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: bj229r on June 06, 2007, 08:01:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Missing the essential point.  Japanese birds like the Zero, did not have self sealing fuel tanks.  fuel burns quit well when it's lit up.


ARGH! You guys are missing the point! WWHHHHYYYYYYY does it take SOOooo long for the plane to pop AFTER it CATCHES fire? Again---jug explodes after 20 seconds or so....jap rides toodle on forever just like bombers
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: DaddyAck on June 06, 2007, 10:49:13 PM
YOu are correct, in game the a6m will hapily keep flying and possably RTB while if say my P38 or 109 catch fire......well forgetaboudit im in the tower with no hope of RTBing.  Now oil leaks are another beast all together, I can in a 38 or 47 RTB pretty easily as long as Im not being ran down, the 109 is not so forgiving when its oil is hit but anyhoo. :D
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Serenity on June 07, 2007, 12:07:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DaddyAck
YOu are correct, in game the a6m will hapily keep flying and possably RTB while if say my P38 or 109 catch fire......well forgetaboudit im in the tower with no hope of RTBing.  Now oil leaks are another beast all together, I can in a 38 or 47 RTB pretty easily as long as Im not being ran down, the 109 is not so forgiving when its oil is hit but anyhoo. :D


You kidding?!? 7 out of 10 times my oil is shot out in a Bf-109 I can make it home just fine. And those other 3 are times when im 3+ grids from home.
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: croduh on June 07, 2007, 05:40:16 AM
Yeah because you are an alt dweeb;]
Title: Why do Jap panes burn so long?
Post by: Serenity on June 07, 2007, 10:58:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by croduh
Yeah because you are an alt dweeb;]


True. lol.


Serenity <---- Confirmed 'Astronaught'