Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: TwinBoom on June 06, 2007, 04:18:03 PM
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its a spanish bird but still cool
buchon (http://www.controller.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1110397&guid=F151E6ED6E8D4FE7A1A964CEC794C9DB)
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It's apparently a long way from being flyable which means a lot more money after that first 850K to get it going again.
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Do I hear AH community plane?
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a-26 (http://www.controller.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1096579&guid=F151E6ED6E8D4FE7A1A964CEC794C9DB)
(http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/72533959.jpg)
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137k for a A26. :O :O :O :O :O
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Why do Spanish Built 109's have those intake Bulges under the nose? kinda like a Typhoon has...Why is that?
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Originally posted by Platano
Why do Spanish Built 109's have those intake Bulges under the nose? kinda like a Typhoon has...Why is that?
Originally from the linked website
The installation of the upright V-12 engine makes the nose contours of the HA-1112 quite different from those of the original Messerschmitt Bf 109G, hence its nickname “Buchon” (pouter pigeon). The Buchon are popular performers and are among the only surviving examples of the famous German aircraft that can be seen in the air.
See complete specs and additional photos at http://www.courtesyaircraft.com
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Merlin engine. Not an inverted V and different layout, had to redesign the nose.
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Merlin as in the same thing in the spits?
a 109 with a merlin?
And for some reason I'm not understanding the Inverted part..can someone explain please...
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I don't like that instrument panel. That can't be original, can it?
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Not quite 100% on this but I believe it was captured, damaged and due to a lack of DB engines a merlin was fitted.
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The Daimler-Benz series of engines used on German built 109s was an Inverted-V design (basically a V flipped upside down), where the Merlin used on the Spanish-built Buchon was a Merlin, which is a conventional V-12 engine. As such the layout of the engine the arrangement of the oil tanks, intakes, radiators, blower, etc. are all difeerent. Also the thrust line is much higher. As a result the entire nose had to be redesigned to take the new engine.
If you think the Buchon looks weird, compare it to the Avia S.199. :O
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the avia s-199 was a pig. Travasty to the sexy sleek 109 for sure! (for those whoom don't know take a 109G airframe built by the Chezks and mate it to a Jumo enjine with a big fat 3 bladed prop) The Mule was hard to fly and taxi/land due to the shifts in weight and teh retention of the same narrow undercarrage. IAF bought these after its inception and had a real time with them, but they did the job.
(PS. I would not give that much for a bastardized Spanish109 with a Brittish engine in it. If I were to shell out that much cash, I would rateher it be for the real deal. Though sadly there are not but I believe 2 or 3 still airworthy.)
(PSS. Who am I kidding, while my wife is a rare and awesome wife whoom actually plays AHII and likes gameing. She would castrate me if I ever took out a loan for that much money, well maby not castrate but I would be a perminant resident on the couch.):(
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yep
iaf avia 199 after conversion
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/16976.jpg)
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i actually have pictures standing alongside the mule and severall other ww2 a/c in the iaf air muesum 1 hour from my houise and this last indepencdence day i watched the black spit 9 make a pass over our beach ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/ff.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/fff.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/fff-1.jpg)
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Originally posted by evenhaim
yep
iaf avia 199 after conversion
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/16976.jpg)
Yeah I saw several color photos of it as well as schematics off the web, It does not do Willy's desighn any credit.
Yeah ^ those are the pictures I was refering to :aok
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yep i would like to post some of my personal pics but for certian reasons (hoping to become a pilot) cannot have any pics of u on the net
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What's that? I.A.F. won't allow any pilots or prospective pilots to post pictures of themselves on the internet?
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nope :(
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they do a backround check ur r/l name cant be tied to your picture
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Originally posted by evenhaim
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/adamevenhaim/ff.jpg)
Anyone else see any irony here???
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german plane with isreali markings??
israel=jews?
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Originally posted by Platano
german plane with isreali markings??
israel=jews?
I knew the IAF scraped together a bunch of WWII aircraft after the war (Spits and such). Just didn't know they flew 109's...Thought it was ironic--certainly didn't intend any disrespect.
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Not only that, they flew 109's against Egyptian Spitfires.
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Hi,
imho the Avia is by far more nice than the Buchon. I could get crazy to see the ugly Merlin cowling with the high mounted propeller on the otherwise symetric streamlined 109 airframe.
The Jumo at least still did provice the good front view.
Very interesting is the success of the IAF over the EAF with this horrible performing plane.
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/fighter1.htm
Some more nice pictures:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/s199ng_1.html
Good visivle is the "bubble canophy".
Greetings,
Knegel
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Originally posted by evenhaim
they do a backround check ur r/l name cant be tied to your picture
Flyboy is training to be an Israeli AF pilot, there were a ton of pics of him on here from re-unions and stuff.
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Maybe the COG was placed too far back, or maybe the thrustline was too high with Jumo? The cowling certainly looks more sleek than that of Buchon.
-C+
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The problem with the Avia was the very high torque of the Jumo engine. Put a high torque bomber engine in a 109 that already got ground handling problems and you have a recipe for disaster.
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I can't see how much different the torque could have been from DB engined 109. The nickname "Mule" came from bad flight characteristics which were considered quite a bit worse than those of original design.
Of course if the engine was heavier and not lighter it could not be moved aft enough to keep the COL and COG at the same area resulting in very forward heavy design which would be really a "mule" to fly.
-C+
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Hi,
Its not the engine, the very big propellers was made to be placed in a He111, they was made for slowspeed mainly, where they did create much thrust but also torque.
Additionally the pilots did talk about a nose-heavyness, probably the engine + propeller was to heavy.
Rumors say the landing speed was 190km/h.
All over it was propably the most horrible of all 109´s, nevertheless the IAF pilots shot down some SpitIXLF´s(Agypt Air Force) in close combat.
Greetings,
Knegel
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Not taking anything away from the bravery and skill of the early IAF pilots, but remember that most of the S.199s successes were in defending Isreali territory until P-51Ds and Spits could be acquired and issued.
They were mainly (though by no means exclusively) used to defend against bombing raids by converted C-47s. Has anyone in this game ever had a problems with killing C-47s in a G14R6? Other than the different engine, thats basically what it was in terms of armament and airframe (though with no hub-mounted cannon).
They did yeoman service holding the line until better equipment was available, kind of like the P-39 for the USAAF, but any success they had was due to determined and skillful pilots, not the aircraft.
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If you dont wanna taking anything away from the bravery and skill of the early IAF pilots you should read before writing.
03-Jun-48 Avia S 199 2 C-47 Egypt
08-Jun-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
10-Jul-48 Avia S 199 1 AT-6 Syria
18-Jul-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
23-Sep-48 Avia S 199 1 Rapide Jordan
16-Oct-48 Avia S 199 1 Spitfire Egypt
http://home.comcast.net/~anneled/IAFtotal.html
Although the few combat ready Avias mainly flew ground support, they stopped the bombing raids to Tel Aviv and as you can see, they also was successfull vs the Spitfires. Actually they shot down more armned planes than sitting ducks.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_253.shtml
Btw, the Avias had only 2 x 20mm not 3 x 20mm like the G14R6.
And to shoot down a plane in a cheap simulation is a "bit" different than to do it in real life, or better sayed, 1st you need to find the C47´s, if you wanna shoot them down, while Israel dont had a good working Airforce (ground controll etc) at this time.
Edit: Before the IAF got other planes(Spit/P51) the Egyptian attack already was stopped with big help of the Avia pilots.
Greetings,
Knegel
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It just goes to show that no matter how badly cobbled together, the 109 will always own the Spit!
(J/K) :p
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hey ball thats not a suggested thing to do and im not sure if he made it... if u do have pics with name and title etc. that are current then theyd make u delete em most likly its just no something u do
btw avias took on multiple fighters ive heard of an avia beating 2 spits in a 3 on 1 guess who was the 3 and the 1 , last spit got away, lmao egyptians are total runfire pilots
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Originally posted by Furball
Flyboy is training to be an Israeli AF pilot, there were a ton of pics of him on here from re-unions and stuff.
which flyboy? there is like 10.
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Originally posted by evenhaim
btw avias took on multiple fighters ive heard of an avia beating 2 spits in a 3 on 1 guess who was the 3 and the 1 , last spit got away, lmao egyptians are total runfire pilots
I would say that rumor, according to several sources never two Spits at once got shot down by Avias.
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possibly but u do know that an avia was accredited with shooting down 1 raf soitfire and his wingmen the 101st sqdrn flying spits was acredited with 4 kills 3 raf spits and 1 raf tempest that was searching for the downed spits. i have article if you wish to view:aok
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Hi,
i know this article, the Spitfire pilots wasnt fighting at all, they got shot down my mistake, cause the IAF pilots thought they just strafe ground troops, while the RAF pilots only was up to make pictures of the already buring trucks(attacked by EAF Spitfires 20min before).
The downed Tempest was flow by a Rooki and the half of the Temps dont had working cannons, while none was able to drop their droptanks(great to send the pilots out with such a maintance service. :huh ).
Why the Tempests got attacked at all is not clear, cause this planes was easy to idetify as RAF planes and the EAF dont had Tempests.
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/fighter1.htm
As the kill list i posted above show, the Avias shot down 3 EAF Spits, but not in one mission, no RAF Spitfire was shot down by a Avia.
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/fighter1.htm
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my intardnet source may be wrong.... might have to go ask for sources from my uncle who is a pilot with acces to some air force records:aok