Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Bluto on June 07, 2007, 10:27:16 AM
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Hi everyone kind of new to this game but enjoying it! I know this is a very silly attitude to take but I want a plane that is hard to master but once I do is seriously good in the MA!
I am looking at the P38's but does anyone else have any suggestions? Oh yes I do not get one with the 109's and 190's!! I kind of like planes you can tnb and use those flappy things!! :aok
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First off I recomend at least for a while starting with a spitfire to learn the basics.
Spit 8 is a good all around plane for starters.
Then as your skills and knowledge grows start experimenting with other planes.
See what "feels" good, and what doesn't.
Lots of help available at the trainers site, and http://www.netaces.org
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Most planes can be flown in the turny burny mode, some are just a bit harder to suceed in :D
Easy planes are the spits and LAs, harder would be f6s, f4s, 109s, P38s, harder still would be P47s, P51s, 190, typhoons.
Like I said any plane can be used in a turn fight. I've seen some amasing moves in Ponys, and the Jugs, it all comes with practice and learning your aircraft.
Good Luck !
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Originally posted by Ghosth
First off I recomend at least for a while starting with a spitfire to learn the basics.
Spit 8 is a good all around plane for starters.
Agree 100%
The Spit 8 is a perfect beginner plane. Easy to fly, stable, a good punch, good acceleration & turning.
The other plane I usually recommend (much to the chargrin of most MA folks ;) ) is actually the LA7. Most people do not get the fact that apart from the amzaing speed the LA can actually turn quite well.
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P51 should not be in the most difficult category. The "easy end" of "middle" would be better for it.
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Originally posted by Bluto
a plane that is hard to master but once I do is seriously good in the MA!
Ki-84 and P-38 probably top this list.
As others have said, it might not be the best way to learn, however.
- oldman
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What in the world?
Man, 109s are HARD to learn but once you get the hang of them they can be very deadly... just think about an uber pro K4 on your six ready to pop you with a single tater.
Can't turn?! 190s definitively can't even turn around the world but sure 109s can! I once fought platano in a Spit 8 and he could still turn inside my turn radius with proper throttle and flaps management.
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I recommend the P-51B or D - seriously. If you can fight the ponies at high angles and low alts and survive you can pretty much do it in any ride. The ponies aren't brawlers, you've got to think your way through a fight with them. And you need a gentle hand on the stick or you'll empty your energy bank in a hurry.
Any noob can use the pony and achieve some level of success in it, although relatively few in the game can actually use it very well at all and even fewer can use it to its fullest capabilities. Just be careful not to get sucked into using the pony's high speed capabilities to the exclusion of its other talents or you'll miss the real beauty of the airplane.
The P-40E is very similar to the ponies except that it doesn't have the flat out speed to get you out of trouble. It will turn and burn with the best of them but there's very little HP to get you out of trouble.
The Fw190A-5 is a good one too. It will turn fairly well, has a decent sprint and a great set of guns, but not overly fast. Definitely not a ride for the ham-fisted.
And the 38's of course, although the G has a pretty poor rate of roll at higher speeds.
Cheers,
asw
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If you don't want to take the time to learn everything all of the folks have offered...then you can do as I did. I only wanted to fly the F4U Corsair. It's difficult to learn...you get dead a lot...but...once you get a feel for it...you will appreciate the Corsair's abilities AND other aircrafts' abilities.
I think the F4U ranks about in the center of difficulty to fly well...but ranks difficult to Master.
There is much to consider about flying a Corsair since it truely is a Fighter/Bomer. First, you must learn to fly the airplane with all of its quirks, not only from a land base, but from a CV as well. Then you must learn how it behaves when carrying heavy ordnance, and again, from a land base, and from a CV. Then...you must learn to deliver the ordnace on target (without kissing the ground) and fly home with copious opponents wishing to kill you (and they may do so), whilst swithching from a Bombing SA to a Fighter SA and picking out which of the folks following you needs to be killed first...without throwing yourself into his wingmans' gunsite...and retaining enough Energy to still be competitive as a Fighter and survive the encounter.
If you choose to fly this path I have only one very strong suggestion for you: Spend a lot of time in the Training Arena learning from some of the best pilots in Aces High...The Aces High Training Staff.
Sir! I wish you well.
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The man asked for a ship that's hard to master but once mastered is very good. Spitfires do not fall under that description by any means. Spitfires are point and click. Bluto, good show for being a man. I recommend P-47, P-38, or Me-109.
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thanks guys, when you shoot me down in the MA my name is Getafix! So be nice!!
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Bluto, the Bf 109 G2 is an excellent turn fighter.
Use of flaps is a must and it is definately a great fighter to learn.
Do not write off the 109s as 'BnZ' monsters, even the late-war 109s turn very well when flown correctly.
The earlier the 109, the better the turner.... the later the 109, the faster.
Jump in a 109F or G-2/G-6 and watch Spits and lots of other good turners fight to turn with you, you'll be surprised.
Even the 190 A5 can turn pretty well... not in the conventional flat turn sense, but the exceptional roll-rate can help you 'out-turn' many aircraft simply due to the fact that you can roll and start your turn much earlier... then roll back to the opposite direction and repeat.
Take pleasure in the 4 x 20mm blasting of an aircraft that tried to turn with you and overshot because they could not follow you quickly enough.
:aok
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P40E nowhere near as capable as the P51. Can't turn nearly worth a damn once you lose your initial dive speed. Flaps all but useless. Unstable at slow speeds.
F4us are easy-mode planes now. They can attack and fight, yes, but they fly nearly on rails, out turn almost everything in the planeset, can slow down from 350 to 150mph inside of 10 seconds or so, and have BS hover flaps.
Might take some time to learn how to use the tool, but the tool itself is uber and does all the work for the pilot. (same description goes for spitfires).
190s, p38s, ki84 (hell even the ki61 if you like!), p51, these are all planes that perform very well once you learn how to fly them.
:aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
P40E nowhere near as capable as the P51. Can't turn nearly worth a damn once you lose your initial dive speed. Flaps all but useless. Unstable at slow speeds.
It ain't a pony, that's for 100% sure, but don't sell it short as a knife-fighter. I don't find it any more unstable at slow speeds than the 109's and using flaps on the top drops the nose down quick-time when you're inverted. It's only problem that I've found is the lack of HP. The biggest problem it has is its inability to out run pretty much anything once it's time to go home.
Cheers,
asw
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ASW, I find it turns well while it has speed. But that precludes pulling any major Gs. The problem is that, even at speed, everything overtakes it rapidly, forcing it to pull high Gs, which thus slows it down where it doesn't belong. Match it up against planes from 1942 and it does okay. Anything later and it's showing its age.
The instability is when you're slow and/or perhaps trying to force an overshoot, go nose high, or popping flaps. You will drop a wing repeatedly. I find the 109s far more stable than the P40s, especially at those low speeds.
You're spot on about the HP though.
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Krusty, I guess it's what you get used to. I find the P40E easier to fly at high angles of attack than the 109's. I seem to always have problems with the 109's dropping a wing out from underneath me, with the exception of the G-6 but I tend to fight that in the medium to fast speed ranges.
Cheers,
asw
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Originally posted by Krusty
P51 should not be in the most difficult category. The "easy end" of "middle" would be better for it.
when did u fall off the band wagon
p51 is one of the hardest to learn dogfighters in game try flying a pony under 300-200 mph tell me what happens in a turnfight at slow speed:rolleyes:
its quite difficult to learn to fly and has many weakness as well as strengths if u wanna fly any american muscle try fm2 or any of the f4 series as they are not too hard to learn
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Ki-84 and P-38 probably top this list.
As others have said, it might not be the best way to learn, however.
- oldman
K4 tops this list by a country mile. 38 flies OK, but it's such a big target... that bumps it down quite a bit. Ki84 is an amazing plane, and definitely the best (used by a very good stick) of the twisty-turny stuff, but is fairly easily pwnd by a well-flown K4.
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Originally posted by evenhaim
when did u fall off the band wagon
p51 is one of the hardest to learn dogfighters in game try flying a pony under 300-200 mph tell me what happens in a turnfight at slow speed:rolleyes:
its quite difficult to learn to fly and has many weakness as well as strengths if u wanna fly any american muscle try fm2 or any of the f4 series as they are not too hard to learn
I find the 51 significantly easier to fly at low speeds than the K4. Against multiple targets, K4 by a country mile, but 1v1 the 51 is easier. That said, K4 is harder, but still better.
If your goal is to actually learn how to fight (you WILL die a lot in the process), the faster planes are not your best bet. Fly a spit. You'll have lots of other spits to fight.
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Everyone's opinion is to think the plane they love & fly the most in game is one of the hardest to learn......or should I say master...
Your best advice I seen here is to 1st as Ghosth , Lusche, wetrat etc have said is to start off and get the basics DOWN PAT!!! because the basics apply to each and every aircraft almost the same.
Then move n to which ever ride you prefer to decide and master..
I liked the Spit VIII or the Spiy IX, get to be decent in these and then start working on your intermediste skills , then work on mastering.....
as for what is easy mode /medium and Advanced... I have no desire to debate what anyone has said to be weak/easy/intermediate or Hard to fly..
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There is no such plane, or any plane is such a plane.
The problem is that you need to define "do really good in MA" better, because first off there are late, early, mid war arena. And "doing really good" can mean bring you home in any case, win most 1v1s, get high k/d rate, get high score, be able to jabo, escort, defend and precision strike etc.
The problem is that with trying out you dont know, because what you dont know what the plane could give you.
Definetly spit 8, ki 84, p38, p47, typhoon, tempest, N1k, p51b, LA7, 109G2, F4U-1D, 190A5, F6F, Yak-9 all fit the list so far.
I would try P51B,Yak-9u,Ki-84,P-47D11,Spit 8.
And i think ALL planes are verry hard to master.
While the Spitfire is good in turnfights, its still hard to get home since the lower top speed gives others the chance to escape and come back. As well as it has some fragile points, which i dont want to mention since i fly one from time to time.
EDIT: You want a plane that is hard to master but complain that you have a hard time in 109s? Definetly in my opinion 109K4 would be the plane you look for....but its really hard to fly in turnfights.
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Originally posted by Bluto
Hi everyone kind of new to this game but enjoying it! I know this is a very silly attitude to take but I want a plane that is hard to master but once I do is seriously good in the MA!
I am looking at the P38's but does anyone else have any suggestions? Oh yes I do not get one with the 109's and 190's!! I kind of like planes you can tnb and use those flappy things!! :aok
Just going off the hard to master thingie. P40, Ki61, 109g6, C202 (p38 is a bomber so no :D )
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:lol
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Originally posted by dedalos
p38 is a bomber so no
Die. The P-38 was one of the top three fighters of the war.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Die. The P-38 was one of the top three fighters of the war.
:rofl I do that about 20 times a day.
1 engine = Fighter
More than one engine = Bomber
The guys in WWII flew it the wrong way. Thats all. Prolly a typo in the clasification by some government agency and no one wanted to admit they made a mistake
:D
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Originally posted by dedalos
Just going off the hard to master thingie. P40, Ki61, 109g6, C202 (p38 is a bomber so no :D )
If you think that the p38 is just a bomber Then you sir havent meet MURDR in the p38.
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Originally posted by dedalos
More than one engine = Bomber
Well, then, I feel sorry for all the bomber pilots flying F-22's, F-15's, F/A-18's, F-14's, F-4's, MiG-29's, Su-27's, et cetera. And here, all along, they thought they were fighter pilots. Someone needs to contact TOPGUN and inform them of the mistake, before any more damage is done!
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Well, then, I feel sorry for all the bomber pilots flying F-22's, F-15's, F/A-18's, F-14's, F-4's, MiG-29's, Su-27's, et cetera. And here, all along, they thought they were fighter pilots. Someone needs to contact TOPGUN and inform them of the mistake, before any more damage is done!
I ll do it :aok I ll let you know what they said :rofl
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Nice little string there Dedalos and on such poor bait too. Good fishing in here :D
asw
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Originally posted by oldtard
If you think that the p38 is just a bomber Then you sir havent meet MURDR in the p38.
I hoppe you know I am just kiding, right? In any case, MURDR is just very good in fighting in a light bomber :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
I hoppe you know I am just kiding, right? In any case, MURDR is just very good in fighting in a light bomber :rofl
And what's wrong with my light bomber 38G? Always causing trouble Dedalos. It just never ends with you! :)
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Originally posted by detch01
Nice little string there Dedalos and on such poor bait too. Good fishing in here
I don't care if it's a joke or not, I'm sick of hearing it. I'm sure it'd get on your nerves, too, if I kept insisting that your slender and shapely girl was overweight and unattractive.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And what's wrong with my light bomber 38G? Always causing trouble Dedalos. It just never ends with you! :)
Nothing. Just saing, lol
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I don't care if it's a joke or not, I'm sick of hearing it. I'm sure it'd get on your nerves, too, if I kept insisting that your slender and shapely girl was overweight and unattractive.
I am sorry sir. i did not realize you were dating a p38 :noid
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I'm not. We were married several years ago.
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Originally posted by Krusty
F4us are easy-mode planes now...and have BS hover flaps.
:aok
And you know this because? Have any data to back up your claims or did you come by this from your vast "expertise" in mathmatics?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by dedalos
:rofl I do that about 20 times a day.
1 engine = Fighter
More than one engine = Bomber
The guys in WWII flew it the wrong way. Thats all. Prolly a typo in the clasification by some government agency and no one wanted to admit they made a mistake
:D
hehe...how's the fishing? ^__^
ack-ack
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What have I started??? Ok I am going to fly an IL2! At least then I dont have to waste time with this getting alt bs! My flaps will be shot so what use are they anyway!
By the way thanks for the advice guys! At the moment I am flying off-line and just love the guns of the p47n and P38! Saying that I have got the most kills in one run with a Yak 9u!!!!
What the hell I'll furball in a Tiger if I could!!
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This Chinese dude 1HungLo (not his real name) flies a P-38 very well in dogfight mode, let me tell ya' . I'm not revealing his secrets, sworn to blood oath.
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Re: Re: Selecting a Plane to fly
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Originally posted by dedalos
Just going off the hard to master thingie. P40, Ki61, 109g6, C202 (p38 is a bomber so no )
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If you think that the p38 is just a bomber Then you sir havent meet MURDR in the p38.
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If attacking small ground targets take a Ju-87. If attacking large ground targets, take a B-17G. If attacking aircraft, take a Bf-109 G-6. Thats all you need to know. :aok
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Originally posted by Bluto
At least then I dont have to waste time with this getting alt bs!
Fly a 109 and you won't have that problem.
Auto-climb -> afk cigarette = 20k :lol
Seriously though, they climb fast.... only takes a few minutes to climb out to 10k, which is a reasonable altitude
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109K4 will break 30K before it runs outta WEP I think (10 mins wep)
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Originally posted by Daubie
This Chinese dude 1HungLo (not his real name) flies a P-38 very well in dogfight mode, let me tell ya' . I'm not revealing his secrets, sworn to blood oath.
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re:
Re: Re: Selecting a Plane to fly
quote:
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Originally posted by dedalos
Just going off the hard to master thingie. P40, Ki61, 109g6, C202 (p38 is a bomber so no )
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If you think that the p38 is just a bomber Then you sir havent meet MURDR in the p38.
I have seen Murdr in a P-38 and it's still just a heavy bomber ^__^
and 1HungLo is hardly one can term "good" in the P-38 or any other plane FYI. Unless you want to learn how to HO, which then I would recommend the map he made and the film he made on how to HO.
ack-ack
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ACK ACK you stated I have seen Murdr in a P-38 and it's still just a heavy bomber
And that may be true but how many times did that bomber shoot you down
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Krusty....I'm willing to bet you fly the Corsair on the edge a lot...or not at all.