Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Atoon on June 08, 2007, 01:31:22 PM
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I think the game would benefit from:
1) Having 1 score/stats for the EW & MW, 1 for AvA, & 1 for the LWs.
2) Placing more accurate ENY values on the current planeset.
3) Putting the system in place for buffs, where if they drop & auger immidiately, it reduces the effect of bombs dropped.
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player.
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Originally posted by Atoon
I think the game would benefit from:
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player.
I like this one...
take it one step further and have your rank influence the outcome .. the worse your score, the more eny or whatever you get...that way ppl would be trying to keep their scores higher (worse) :)
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that is a good idea
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Originally posted by Atoon
I think the game would benefit from:
1) Having 1 score/stats for the EW & MW, 1 for AvA, & 1 for the LWs.
Agree, I would even say: I set for EW and MW each.
And Top #1 overall (name in lights on HTC wepbage) is computed by averaging rank #s in all three arenas - that would encourage people to actually fight there, if interested in rank
2) Placing more accurate ENY values on the current planeset.
How? Have you find a way to assess ENY in a more objective way? (Not that current ENY doesnt need a tweak or two, but individual ENY values were changed from time to time in the past, so I'm sure HTC has an eye on it)
3) Putting the system in place for buffs, where if they drop & auger immidiately, it reduces the effect of bombs dropped.
I see no way to program that. They just will wait a few seconds longer or just fly into enemy ack to shoot them down. The result is the same.
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player.
Also a very subjective way to distribute points. Rank doesn't neccesarily indicate skill. There are many deadly pilots ranked <1000.
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Originally posted by Lusche
2) Placing more accurate ENY values on the current planeset.
How? Have you find a way to assess ENY in a more objective way? (Not that current ENY doesnt need a tweak or two, but individual ENY values were changed from time to time in the past, so I'm sure HTC has an eye on it)
Have a dynamic ENY value based on current ENY value + plane vs all other planes stats.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Have a dynamic ENY value based on current ENY value + plane vs all other planes stats.
That would give La 7 and Spit 16 a ENY value somwhere around 15-20 and the 109F-4 near to ENY 5-10. Do you really want this? ;)
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Originally posted by Atoon
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player.
AW had this as part of their scoring system. You got more points for killing someone that was rated higher than you than you would have received for killing someone lower rated than you were.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
AW had this as part of their scoring system. You got more points for killing someone that was rated higher than you than you would have received for killing someone lower rated than you were.
ack-ack
It would probably make some of our timid highly ranked people even more timid.
If that were possible.
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Originally posted by Lusche
That would give La 7 and Spit 16 a ENY value somwhere around 15-20 and the 109F-4 near to ENY 5-10. Do you really want this? ;)
OK easy to tweak...
Have a dynamic ENY value based on current ENY value + plane vs all other planes stats + usage stats
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some interesting idea's i guess. the idea about the different scores in different arena's may help with issues with padding scores, though padding scores through easy ways has always been in AH. like the idea about getting more points for killing higher ranked guys, though may have side affect of more score protected flying. never had to deal with eny, and if i did, i would realize i'm flying for a very heavily populated country.
most have to do with people who care about scoring and such. personally nothing that will alter gameplay for me, or the amount of fun i have. none-the-less, not knocking on your post.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
AW had this as part of their scoring system. You got more points for killing someone that was rated higher than you than you would have received for killing someone lower rated than you were.
ack-ack
Well, what you are talking about was the ELO system. It was like a chess ranking system. You lost and received points to your ELO rank based on the relative rank of your opponent. The idea was that folks would fight enemies with better ELO's and get more points. It didn't work that way :(. It was a very flawed ( and abused system). Had it only been on while in duel mode, it might have had some validity. However, it was on all the time in the MA (Melee Arena). Therefore, it was easy to pump your ELO by vulching, ganging and bailing when you got in trouble.
If I remember correctly, the ELO scoring system was taken out of the game sometime in 1991.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Well, what you are talking about was the ELO system. It was like a chess ranking system. You lost and received points to your ELO rank based on the relative rank of your opponent. The idea was that folks would fight enemies with better ELO's and get more points. It didn't work that way :(. It was a very flawed ( and abused system). Had it only been on while in duel mode, it might have had some validity. However, it was on all the time in the MA (Melee Arena). Therefore, it was easy to pump your ELO by vulching, ganging and bailing when you got in trouble.
If I remember correctly, the ELO scoring system was taken out of the game sometime in 1991.
IIRC, at least for AW4W it was in there until the bitter end of that version. Though the normal player couldn't see what their "rating" was as it took a GM command to see it.
ack-ack
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Have a dynamic ENY value based on current ENY value + plane vs all other planes stats.
This looks like it makes sense - until you run the numbers. If you do so, some pretty glaring anomalies stand out. Can Someone Explain Current ENY Rankings? (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206460)
(Which is not to say that they couldn't be improved...)
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Originally posted by Ghastly
This looks like it makes sense - until you run the numbers. If you do so, some pretty glaring anomalies stand out. Can Someone Explain Current ENY Rankings? (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206460)
(Which is not to say that they couldn't be improved...)
Well, ENY values should be properly adjusted to more reasonable figures before anything else. The value range should also be more detailed/higher, ie from 0 to 100, especially if we are going to get more choice selecting various ordnance loadouts.
Slam on top of better base ENY values some sort of dynamic adjustment based on different parameters coupled with dynamic perk system and you're all set.
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Originally posted by Atoon
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player. [/B]
While I like the idea of getting more perk points for kills against higher profile targets, the ranking system DOES NOT determine the skill level of a player.
Furthermore, rank in my opinion destroys this game to a degree. It only serves two purposes: one is attracting FPS dweebs into the game and making AH into an arcade style atmosphere, the other is letting these same FPS dweebs commandeer aircraft carriers all the while squeaking out orders over range like the little Napoleons that they are.
Get rid of rank. Completely. This isn't CounterStrike.
Secondly, I think a new system should be put in it's place. What exactly that would be, I don't know, but I'm coming up with some ideas that I'll post up soon when I get them hashed out.
*edit*
Just thought of something...why not publicly track ONLY kills of successful sorties, that is to say, kills you actually land.
Any kills you've made before eating the ground should be omitted, and every time you're shot down (not a ditch or a disconnect) it affects your overall confirmed kill count.
Just an idea. It closely resembles the actual war.
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I like to see player value determined by a Sabermetrics like method, similar to how baseball teams determine a players value to the team.
As a matter of fact HT, you're a creative computer code dude... engineer some type of Sabermetrics program that will not just rank players by the traditional kills / deaths, rather rank is determined by a players overall value to the team... then market it to all the game farms and retire filthy rich.
Does a player help his team win, or help himself?
Sometime the most valuable players don't put up whats considered a good score.. the unsung heros of digital death can finally get the recognition they've so richly deserved. And it might just encourage some of the "score hoe mercenaries", so called, into team play.
I also think a Sabermetrics ranking would be much harder to manipulate and render blowing away a 'shade' account in an empty arena futile, as well as ridiculous.
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Originally posted by halcyon
Get rid of rank. Completely. This isn't CounterStrike.
The guys playing AirQuake are predominantely the ones conbstantly claiming not to care about rank. (But interestingly that are the only ones constantly talking about it ;) )
Diving into a sea of red, fighting a high pitched battle until they go down, never caring about damage, numbers or fuel. Augering or bailing when the sortie get "boring". Despising everyone thinking about mission profiles or optimum operating altitude of their rides. Never trying to get home before it's too late -
THAT is true FPS ideology gone aircombat
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Originally posted by Lusche
The guys playing AirQuake are predominantely the ones conbstantly claiming not to care about rank. (But interestingly that are the only ones constantly talking about it ;) )
Diving into a sea of red, fighting a high pitched battle until they go down, never caring about damage, numbers or fuel. Augering or bailing when the sortie get "boring". Despising everyone thinking about mission profiles or optimum operating altitude of their rides. Never trying to get home before it's too late -
THAT is true FPS ideology gone aircombat
Problem with that is that as long as no one is dying and planes are free, why not have at it?
As one who has never cared about rank or points, I'd hardly label myself as an AirQuake player. The MA isn't a scenario where my role is defined for me. The MA is a shooting gallery, where fighting against other players is the point for me.
Personally I'd lose points, perks, eny, and make all the planes flyable. I'm not going to fly the jets or the perk planes anyway.
If you want realism go fly a scenario where your death, mission profile, or optimum operating altitudes matter. Scenarios can be great fun too, but expecting that of everyone in the MA is silly.
What these threads become about is a certain group of players wanting other players to play the game their way when the MA allows for folks to have fun in many different ways.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Problem with that is that as long as no one is dying and planes are free, why not have at it?
Oh, I have absolutely no problems with people doing that. I do that myself from time to time.
I do just have a problem with all that folks yelling at people that do not play their style. That kind of guys calling a Tiffie pilot names because he doesn't turnfight with their FM2 ;)
Originally posted by Guppy35
Scenarios can be great fun too, but expecting that of everyone in the MA is silly.
Well, personally, I don't expect anybody to fly "my" way.
Actually, there is only one style I despise: Bomb'N'Bail.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Problem with that is that as long as no one is dying and planes are free, why not have at it?
As one who has never cared about rank or points, I'd hardly label myself as an AirQuake player. The MA isn't a scenario where my role is defined for me. The MA is a shooting gallery, where fighting against other players is the point for me.
Personally I'd lose points, perks, eny, and make all the planes flyable. I'm not going to fly the jets or the perk planes anyway.
If you want realism go fly a scenario where your death, mission profile, or optimum operating altitudes matter. Scenarios can be great fun too, but expecting that of everyone in the MA is silly.
What these threads become about is a certain group of players wanting other players to play the game their way when the MA allows for folks to have fun in many different ways.
hmmmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX80Czm-lg
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I fly to survive, always have, always will. I just love killing and hate dying. Tactical perfection is a goal unto it's own. I realize not many understand it, or appreciate it, or the discipline and self-control required to achieve survivalism excellence. But, that doesn't matter, it gets my rocks off, it's what gives me my "rush". Take away any and all vestiges of score and rank and suvivalism would still be incredibly exhilerating to me...
Zazen
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in regard to airquake.... i don't care at all about score. my rank in aweful. somehow i still manage to usualy put up a good fight....though a beer here and a whiskey there, makes for an easier time. I think there are alot of people who could care less about where they score/rank, i think there are alot of people who just play for the fact they enjoy flying ww2 aircraft. I think there are many people who just simply enjoy flying with their squad....some of them otd, into as many foe's as possible. becuase i like to run fighter sweeps with my squad, and tool around on the deck, does that make me an airquaker....because i don't play the strat game? which just restarts every time, and is won by the team that has the most players? Is everyone who just wants to log on and fly with and against friends, just some psuedo-derogatory term because they don't care about a fake war, flying against fake countries, over the internet?
people play this game for many reasons. some like to score high, go get em tiger. some don't care at all. my only concern about rank is that it makes people not want to fight, or just to b'n'z, all day with no risk. some good pilots do this, some bad pilots do this. the only way you can tell who is good, and who is not is to fight them. it has always been the way, and there is no quantitive measure skill in this game. add gimics and what not all you want, there is a large portion of this community that will always fly for fun, and for friends, score be damned. If people don't understand that, then i guess they have neither.
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Originally posted by Atoon
4) A scale for player rank values, IE- killing #3 ranked player, scores more points than killing #300 ranked player.
I thought about this in the past but don't think it's a good idea. Essentially, an absolute total noob who gets a lucky kill on someone of intermediate ability instantly jumps in score/rank, making them appear to be much better than they are.
Likewise, an experienced pilot flys into a 1 on 5, and kills them all gets next to nothing for it.
The people at the furthest ends of the spectrum have the most to gain or lose from this, becoming less of a factor as you head toward the mid-ranked pilots. In the end it "homoginizes" the scores, essentially making all pilots equal when in reality that's far from the case.
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Originally posted by storch
hmmmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX80Czm-lg
So just what does the video of Carlos Santana dedicating the "change your evil ways" video to President Bush have to do with this response or the thread?
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Thanx for all the input & replies!
Regarding scores for better ranks- I understand that overall rank is no indication of skill, I myself am a good example of this. This idea would only be of value if the current rank/score system were improved as well. I'm not suggesting a large points diff between killin Shawk or 45635384, but there should be some benefit to killing a skilled pilot slumming in an la7, Vs slaying noobs in la7s No slam on Shawk here, hes just usually #1-
Stats/Scores revamp- thats a no-brainer & everyone seems to agree-
I really dont get bothered by ENY much as the targets are all gone anyway by the time my YakU is unavailable. But I do notice many planes with same values that are VERY different skill levels to fly effectively.
Buff & auger dweebs have decreased alot, largely due to the new AAA I assume. Those guys never wanted to get up to alt due to time envolved, & new AAA just eats em up if they come in low. (BTW I love new AAA) Not so much an issue anymore-
Again thanks for all the input, and NONE of these ideas were originally mine, I'm prolly not even the first to compile them in a post-