Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: macleod01 on June 10, 2007, 10:04:34 AM
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Ive been looking through my limited resources (A single encyclopedia) and came across one profile, that probarbly isnt that acurate but looks cool. However I googled the information provided about it and came up with nothing whatsoever. Its a 109F, a white/ cream spinner, and a red nose. A light gray fusalage and a red rudder. Wondering if an of your resources showed up this plane. I think it would be awsome to do, and hopefully to see in the game. Ive got the information as '109F of Hpm Assi Kahn (III/JG 2, Score 31 (On profile) later 108' This is all the information Ive got, and as said, google came up with nothing. any help?
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Well I have seen it before, but a quick check on the materials on my desk/credensa do not show it. I will dig into the magazines and books.
However, using my superior google search skills and the super secret skinners subpage of Google ;) (I typed in JG2 109 ) I found the following.
JG2 109F (http://www.swannysmodels.com/Bf109F2.html)
Note that your name is wrong. It is Hans "Assi" Hahn. See here for his bio. (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/hahn.html). Looks like a nice one to do, but I am partial to red nosed aircraft!
And this picture from another site.
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Will it being an F-2 and not an F-4 mean it will be rejected? Thats the plane im after thanks Fencer. It was great to get a 3D shot of it, now all I need is a shot of the underside. Im interested in doing it, could be very fun, and would be a striking skin. Has anyone thought of doing it before? If so, any words would be good words. Thanks for the help Fencer
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I'll check when I get home from work tonite. Sure there are profiles of it out there.
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Thanks folks!
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F-2 should be accepted as F-4. One of my skins if of an F-2 and is in-game.
I wanted to do that one, once-upon-a-time, but could only find a couple of models of it, no real references.
Good luck!
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I ordered a crapload of new 109 references over the weekend. They should be here early next week. I will see what if anything they have for you on this bird.
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I can say there is some dissention amongst model builders about yellow markings under the chin and the color of the rudder itself. I found at least 2-3 different styles of this plane (in model form, I mean) when I was searching. I can post some of what I've found later (at work now).
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Thanks Krusty would help a lot.I think I may go with the majority vote (Say the most common colour of the rudder). Also any underbelly shots of the bird would be awsome. At the moment Im thinking standard grey, but I may be wrong
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lichtblau ("light blue"), not grey, is the most likely candidate.
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Thanks krusty! Much appreciated.
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Here's my little archive of what I found on the Internet. Basically it only exists in model kit form, which makes me think there's SOME basis for it, but that they got it WRONG. Regardless, a red cowled 109F would look cool.
My semi-educated guess on the matter is that it has a yellow rudder, partial yellow chin, and maybe yellow wingtips on the underside. The one with a red rudder also sports a red set of wingtips, and those don't seem historically accurate.
The decal scan shows no yellow wingtips, so they may or may not have been present, but often it seems they're a package deal (going along with the rudder and chin) so I can't be sure. The plane already lacks a theater band, so it breaks the mold. The question is "how much does it break the mold?"
Here's the zip file (800kb) (http://www.nakatomitower.com/HansAssiHahn.zip)
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Ok, those pictures conflict with each other completely! :(:(:( Now im not sur eIf I should skin it or not
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Well the one with the red rudder seems inaccurate. It has no yellow under the chin, but then masks it off so there's no red either. I mean, c'mon i'd have one or the other, logically. That leads me to think there was a B&W picture and the guy interpreted it as lichtblau instead of yellow. I say go with the half yellow chin, red nose, yellow rudder, and no yellow wingtips.
The Yellow chin because it seems most likely. The yellow rudder because a red rudder is almost unheard of. Yellow and white were far far more common. The "no wingtips" because of the decal profile. Decals aren't perfect, but they can lead you in the right direction sometimes.
So there ya go, red nose, yellow chin, yellow rudder, lichtblau wingtips. That's my opinion.
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Couple reference photos, looks like a red rudder to me, but the noses are covered.
(http://www.4thfg.org/images/JG2_109F.jpg)
(http://www.4thfg.org/images/JG2_109Fa.jpg)
Found a profile of the plane in question.. However its not quite the same color as the models.
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Now theres a new one! A Yellow nose! The profiles Ive seen have a red one!
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Profiles aren't always right. But then the one with a yellow nose is a profile too ;)
Fester, the first photo it's hard to tell if it's red or yellow. The second one the rudder is turne back into the shadow (sunlight going directly along the path the rudder is) so it's even darker still -- can't be sure it's red because the shadow.
First one hints at red, but I've seen some yellow/orange that were darker still. My Herman Graf Fw190 has a B&W photo that shows the nose even darker than the one you've got, but it's an orange-ish yellow shade, definitely not red.
Second one is inconclusive (IMO).
Really need to see the nose, I guess.
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So the mystery deepens!
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It was already deep. The mystery just moves sideways at the same depths...
:t
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and gets deeper. But I hope we can decide. I WANT TO GET TO SKINING!
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Just to add fuel to the confusion fire. This profile is from "Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile" by Sundin and Bergstrom. These guys do some pretty serious research on their profiles and it's clearly different from the other stuff posted so far.
But this is their version of Assi Hahn's 109F-4
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109f.jpg)
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I'd say do it in red until evidence proving otherwise shows up, we have enough yellow-nosed 109s (my own included)
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Good find, Guppy, but it's probably an entirely different plane (F-4 instead of F-2). Like Marseille's different 109Fs, similar but not the same.
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wow. Well.... Thats... a very... interesting profile there. Completely helpfull only to make me more confused. But the skin im hoping to do is an F-2, and yet you say thats an F-4? Di dhe fly both types?
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OK so where are the luftwaffe experts when ya need em.
What makes sense.
Like the RAF and USAAF the LW had standard ID colors that changed over time.
I'd be surprised that an individual pilot like Hahn was allowed a completely red nose, when the ID colors for a time were solid yellow noses.
Then they did away with the full yellow noses and made it the undersides like in the profile i posted.
So what is the time frame for the different LW ID colors? I know it started with yellow rudder tips in the B of B and quickly moved on to yellow rudders and then noses but I don't know how and when those changes occured.
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WOOOOO Just noticed! The B&W photo's are differant planes! Looks exactly the same, but the arrows are differant! The lower photo is more acute than the top one!
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That doesn't really help any, because the nose is still covered and the shadow on the rudder is possibly making it look a bit darker.
Just do it the way you want, but make sure you can JUSTIFY the way you did it when you submit it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Fester, the first photo..
Ya know Krusty, with over 12220 posts you would assume you could read.
The two b+w photos are of JG2 109F2s from the same time frame as Hahn's F2.
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I got that. I was only talking about the colors. It was MacLeod that said they weren't the same plane.
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Did you get the fact that I am not Fester? :rofl
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No dammit, and it seems I never fricking WILL
:furious
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Ahhh apologies. I was thinking ther WERE the plane in question. Oh well