Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wes14 on June 10, 2007, 09:37:34 PM

Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Wes14 on June 10, 2007, 09:37:34 PM
can a P38 really fly in real life with bother ailerons shot off,one engine dead,and missing one rudder? :confused:
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Blooz on June 10, 2007, 09:52:22 PM
This isn't real life.
Title: Re: P-38 toughness?
Post by: LancerVT on June 10, 2007, 10:03:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wes14
can a P38 really fly in real life with bother ailerons shot off,one engine dead,and missing one rudder? :confused:


Sure
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Wes14 on June 10, 2007, 10:06:49 PM
no i mean in AH ive had it happen,but in real life can a P-38 Really fly missing those parts?
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: LancerVT on June 10, 2007, 10:13:07 PM
I would think so. The pilot would still have the elevator and 2nd Rudder to control the plane. Would it be difficult and possible to maneuver a 1 engine p38 with only a rudder and the elevator? I think so.
I think is was Corky in the SAPP forum who mentioned that a p38 was able to have one of its booms shot off and still fly safely. So IMHO I would say yes, it would still be able to fly.
Title: Re: P-38 toughness?
Post by: CAP1 on June 10, 2007, 11:20:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wes14
can a P38 really fly in real life with bother ailerons shot off,one engine dead,and missing one rudder? :confused:

ailerons simply control the roll. although it wouold be VERY sluggish with 1 rudder missing, it is possible.
if the aircraft starts to roll right, then u apply left rudder. this will pull the nose left, and thus will cause the aircraft to also roll that direction. i think.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 10, 2007, 11:26:28 PM
Well lets look at some examples of P38 toughness from Warren Bodie's must have book on the P38.

Lt. Benton Miller in this P38F hit a telephone pole while strafing in North Africa.  Prop broke off and smashed into the left gun bay door creating a forward speed brake.    The pole tore into the left wing and glanced off the spar before breaking  The entire wing was bent backwards and the dehidral was transformed to anhedral.  Still lugging his DTs he flew all the way back to base and landed this wreck
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/bent381.jpg)

A recce F5 Lightning after a mid-air with an RAF Halifax.  Thats the Halifax rudder imbedded in the left wing of the 38.  The right wing was swept back 30 degrees by the collision and the number 2 engine froze in the position you see it.  Somehow the 38 driver got it down and walked away
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Bent382.jpg)

And this classic photo of a seriously flak damaged P38L.  Flak tore off the left spinner and damaged the engine so that it had to be shut down.  Another shell ripped the big hole in the right wing and severed the aileron controls so he had no ailerons.

He flew the 38 this way for almost five hours to get it home, controlling it with rudder alone and having to sit on the right rudder due to the loss of power to the left engine.  So yeah I think the 38 could do what it does in AH :)  I've brought a few wrecked 38s all the way back single engine and no ailerons like this guy.  Thankfully there was no risk to me.  I'm amazed at what he did for real.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/bent383.jpg)
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Fianna on June 11, 2007, 12:00:58 AM
In the game, the 38 is one of the toughest fighters... It's that relatively fragile pilot that has a hard time surviving.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Benny Moore on June 11, 2007, 02:41:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LancerVT
I think is was Corky in the SAPP forum who mentioned that a p38 was able to have one of its booms shot off and still fly safely.


The real P-38 could, yes, but not in Aces High.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: MstWntd on June 11, 2007, 12:24:34 PM
People say it is an easy target. But with the laser nose guns it is a helluva bird. Keep it fast and you'll be alright
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Bodhi on June 11, 2007, 01:10:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
The real P-38 could, yes, but not in Aces High.


I would like to see the proof on that.  The real 38 would rip it's horizontal off without both booms holding it on.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Benny Moore on June 11, 2007, 02:05:57 PM
So you say.  I've seen a picture of one missing a boom with the horizontal stabilizer still attached to the other.  Granted, it was on the ground, but the text in the book stated that it happened in flight and that the airplane landed that way.  After seeing other pictures of what kind of damage the P-38 could take, I believe it.  American airplanes were strong, very strong.  Surely you don't believe that all that weight is ballast?
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 11, 2007, 02:27:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LancerVT

I think is was Corky in the SAPP forum who mentioned that a p38 was able to have one of its booms shot off and still fly safely. So IMHO I would say yes, it would still be able to fly.



It wasn't GuppyJr/Corky that posted that and I seriously doubt a P-38 could fly with one of the booms shot off.  Again, since no one is able to supply a video or a photo showing a P-38 missing one of its booms in flight, you can put this myth in the "Busted" category.

And "I saw a photo" does not count as proof.


ack-ack
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 11, 2007, 02:34:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It wasn't GuppyJr/Corky that posted that and I seriously doubt a P-38 could fly with one of the booms shot off.  Again, since no one is able to supply a video or a photo showing a P-38 missing one of its booms in flight, you can put this myth in the "Busted" category.

And "I saw a photo" does not count as proof.


ack-ack


Agreed. Wasn't me to suggest it. I don't recall ever hearing of it, or seeing a photo of one in flight with a missing boom.  I don't believe that a 38 could fly like that.  I've never seen that one in AH either and I've wrecked 38s in every possible way.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: evenhaim on June 11, 2007, 02:45:22 PM
ive landed a 38 with only 2 wing stubs no left rudder no left elevator and a radiotor that gave out 5 feet above the ground
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Viking on June 11, 2007, 02:54:45 PM
You must have felt like the pilot of that famous IAF F-15 that landed with one wing.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Bodhi on June 11, 2007, 02:58:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
So you say.  I've seen a picture of one missing a boom with the horizontal stabilizer still attached to the other.  Granted, it was on the ground, but the text in the book stated that it happened in flight and that the airplane landed that way.  After seeing other pictures of what kind of damage the P-38 could take, I believe it.  American airplanes were strong, very strong.  Surely you don't believe that all that weight is ballast?


Having worked extensively on P-38's I feel I can qualify as somewhat knowledgeable on their construction.  Frankly, the structure of the 38's boom and horizontal / vertical interconnect is not capable of supporting the massive tourque that would be introduced should the "boom" on one side or another be shot away.  I highly doubt it could support the horizontal even being on one boom on the ground with out twisting the other boom until it touched the ground.

Either way, as AckAck said, I'd love to see proof, but can not accept it for the same reasons he explained.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 11, 2007, 03:10:29 PM
Only thing I have that's even remotely close is these images from the 428th FS history showing a 38J that came in single engine with a fire in the left boom.  But it's still attached, despite the huge hole

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Shoes.jpg)
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: ForrestS on June 27, 2007, 09:18:18 PM
Ive landed with no ailerons and 1 rudder and half an elevator. Used engines to stear.
Title: P-38 toughness?
Post by: Rino on June 28, 2007, 11:49:37 AM
I've come to the conclusion that you guys need to fly better :D