Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Angus on June 11, 2007, 10:40:05 AM
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Hey there you all engine guys.
I have a problem with a brand new engine. It's a 95hp Perkins turbo diesel in a tractor.
Anyway, it's still being run in, and I notice that while ploughing the lubricant temperature seems to go up.
Water is fine, but the oil filter feels a tad hot, and after some driving the lube light starts blinking. Drive some more, and you will need increased RPM to turn it off.
Keep it idle for some time and everything goes back to normal.
Start it cold and everything is fine with a light job.
So, the theories I am working with are:
1. Poor quality lube
2. Wrong or faulty filter
3. Faulty pump.
4. Meter is a tad too sensitive.
Any thought on this?
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Angus, is this motor in a brand new machine, or a rebuild of an older motor?
Also, if it is a rebuild, and the motor was in-framed, or completely removed and stabbed back in, check and make sure that if it has an oil cooler, make sure that it's hooked up.
Caterpillar used Perkins' engines in it's 416-series backhoe's, I've used plenty of them.
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It's a completely new engine, with Turbo, fuel injection and everything new.
But I think the sensor is an old one.
The oil pump is built-in so it's also new.
Just got a message from the seller, he recommended that I do not use 5W40 oil, but 10W40. I had 15W40 before. Wonder why, - since the 5-40 is only thinner when cold, right? After all it's a specialized oil for high temps and turbos :confused:
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Keep an eye on it-Change the oil to what the dealer recommends.
look at the oil lines to and from the turbo. Excessive turbo tempertures might be the culprit. Also, once the motor and turbo break in, The oil temps might drop to normal.
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Come to think of it, the oil connection to the turbine was leaky when it was new, and I had to tighten it. But if the turbine starves it's toast before you know it. This one breaks in on 1200 rpm. approx.
Putting it into light work today, will see what happens and post.
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what is the oil temp at operating revs?
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don't diesels cause global warming?
lazs
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I do not have a readout of the temps, just the light. So the first action is to install a new sensor. If it keeps flickering none the same, something is definately wrong, and then I need some special equipment for an accurate measurement.
And Lazs, lets say that this engine works on the noble cause of coating barren land with gras, which should tie down CO2 in the long run :D
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Just a thought, they did put the right size oil filter on it, correct?
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You may have a point, since it is not an original part.
I have already got a new one.
My tests start tomorrow.
BTW, have been delayed in this business due to the manning of a very big John Deere,- some 300 hp I think. The whole monster weights some 20 tonnes (with accessories) and is a sweeeeeet ride. I am harrowing some 16 feet net across, but at a rather tedious speed of 3 mph. Slower than a fishing trawler, who pulls the dragnets at 5 kts....
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Originally posted by Angus
I do not have a readout of the temps, just the light. So the first action is to install a new sensor. If it keeps flickering none the same, something is definately wrong, and then I need some special equipment for an accurate measurement.
And Lazs, lets say that this engine works on the noble cause of coating barren land with gras, which should tie down CO2 in the long run :D
buy a temp stik. you can run it into the oil through the dipstick tube and they are accurate. it's a must have tool for anyone operating equipment. those lights and sensors on diesels today aren't worth a cent. you must shut down the engine then check the temp do not run the engine with the temp stik in.
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I'm not having any trouble, and constantly seeing this thread title as I'm looking for good threads to read is starting to freak me out.
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Originally posted by Engine
I'm not having any trouble, and constantly seeing this thread title as I'm looking for good threads to read is starting to freak me out.
buy a temp stik and insert it
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Are you a mechanic offering to service me?
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Personally, I would buy an IR temperature reading gun. I've always wanted one but not had a good excuse, err reason to buy one. Generally, if your coolant isn't getting too hot then neither is the oil. Both oil and coolant cool the engine.
Myself (again just my opinion), I would get a manual for the engine and find out the manufacturers specifications for the oil filter and type of oil recommended. I would then change the oil and oil filter. Any questions and both are changed so they are not an issue. However, if you can feel the oil filter without burning yourself then it's not above 150 deg F ( 65C) which isn't hot.
The lube light blinking is a concern. That is generally a pressure switch indicating low oil pressure. Low oil pressure is bad. Change the oil & filter. That's the least expensive thing you can do (other than asking for opinions).
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no I'm an poster offering wisecracks
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Originally posted by stantond
Personally, I would buy an IR temperature reading gun. I've always wanted one but not had a good excuse, err reason to buy one. Generally, if your coolant isn't getting too hot then neither is the oil. Both oil and coolant cool the engine.
Myself (again just my opinion), I would get a manual for the engine and find out the manufacturers specifications for the oil filter and type of oil recommended. I would then change the oil and oil filter. Any questions and both are changed so they are not an issue. However, if you can feel the oil filter without burning yourself then it's not above 150 deg F ( 65C) which isn't hot.
The lube light blinking is a concern. That is generally a pressure switch indicating low oil pressure. Low oil pressure is bad. Change the oil & filter. That's the least expensive thing you can do (other than asking for opinions).
Running oil that is too light in weight will cause oil pressures to drop to dangerous levels, if the manufacturer recommends 10w-40 or 15w-40, running 5w-40 will destroy it quickly. Also, IIRC, Perkins are supposed to run full synthetic, but I could be wrong on that.
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Your problem is the oil pressure relief valve is stuck partly open, this is fairly common in new engines and will usually clear up after a few hours of use. Meanwhile just keep the RPMs high enough to keep the light off.
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Originally posted by stantond
Personally, I would buy an IR temperature reading gun. I've always wanted one but not had a good excuse, err reason to buy one. Generally, if your coolant isn't getting too hot then neither is the oil. Both oil and coolant cool the engine.
Myself (again just my opinion), I would get a manual for the engine and find out the manufacturers specifications for the oil filter and type of oil recommended. I would then change the oil and oil filter. Any questions and both are changed so they are not an issue. However, if you can feel the oil filter without burning yourself then it's not above 150 deg F ( 65C) which isn't hot.
The lube light blinking is a concern. That is generally a pressure switch indicating low oil pressure. Low oil pressure is bad. Change the oil & filter. That's the least expensive thing you can do (other than asking for opinions).
Exactly this is concerning me, since the problem increased day by day, and changing the oil didn't change anything. Since the lube gets thinner when heating up the pressure drops a bit, hence the light.
If it is however the relief valve, I can but cary on driving doing light work or?
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I would suggest installing a mechanical oil presure gauge. If you are losing oil presure it won't take long to toast the engine. Idiot lights are just that, they don't tell anything until it is to late.
What I think is happening is that at low rpm the oil presure drops enough when it is warm to cause the light to start to flicker. I have a Cummins 6bta that once it has warmed up oil presure drops to 25 psi at idle but climbs back up to 60 psi once the rpms are brought up all with in spec for that engine. Check what the manufacterer specifications are for your engines oil presure they usually have a max and min, and a min at idle.
FWIW Caterpillar bought Perkins so they call them Perkapillars.
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Originally posted by lazs2
don't diesels cause global warming?
lazs
Absolutely. Worse than gasoline. However, in typical liberal fashion, I'm quite sure that Angus expects US to cut back, while he goes along his merry way in his own personal lifestyle. Hello Al Gore! ;)
Scientists: Diesel soot abets global warming
Engine output stops snow, ice from reflecting sunlight
WASHINGTON - Soot mostly from diesel engines is blocking snow and ice from reflecting sunlight, which is contributing to “near worldwide melting of ice” and as much as a quarter of all observed global warming, top NASA scientists say.
The findings about the snow and ice albedos — their power to reflect light falling on the surface — raise new questions about human-caused climate change from the Arctic to the Alps.
“We suggest that soot is a more all-around ‘bad actor’ than has been appreciated,” NASA scientists James Hansen and Larissa Nazarenko wrote in a paper published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3786067/
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Originally posted by Angus
BTW, have been delayed in this business due to the manning of a very big John Deere,- some 300 hp I think. The whole monster weights some 20 tonnes (with accessories) and is a sweeeeeet ride. I am harrowing some 16 feet net across, but at a rather tedious speed of 3 mph.
ROFLMAO :rofl
Let me get this straight...You are pulling a 16 ft. harrow with a 300 HP JD?????
Bet that looks like a monkey sexing up a football. :D
When I had my haying operation going I helped some guys out one year with their wheat land prepping because they were in a bind.
My JD was 120 HP. I was pulling a 30 ft., Bat wing , disk set.
It was totaly embarrassing because I couldn`t lay my hands on a disk set of any decent size. The damn Tonka size set wouldn`t even put a load on "Bruiser".
I haven`t seen a 16 ft. harrow since the H Farmall days.
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If the oil and filter are to spec and the oil pressure light keeps coming on, then there is something wrong with the engine or the oil pressure sensor. It could be serious, such as a bad bearing, or more likely a bad sensor. Installing a mechanical oil pressure gage is a good idea at that point.
I have a hard time accepting that an oil pressure relief valve is stuck open. Not that it couldn't happen, but it would be very abnormal. I have heard of kabota diesel engines losing oil pressure indication. The oil pressure is good but the path to the oil pressure sensor becomes obstructed due to a design flaw.
If there is a warranty with that engine, it sounds like talking to the manufacturer/distributor is in order. I expect it's a problem specific to that particular model.
Good Luck,
Malta
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Originally posted by Jackal1
ROFLMAO :rofl
Let me get this straight...You are pulling a 16 ft. harrow with a 300 HP JD?????
Bet that looks like a monkey sexing up a football. :D
When I had my haying operation going I helped some guys out one year with their wheat land prepping because they were in a bind.
My JD was 120 HP. I was pulling a 30 ft., Bat wing , disk set.
It was totaly embarrassing because I couldn`t lay my hands on a disk set of any decent size. The damn Tonka size set wouldn`t even put a load on "Bruiser".
I haven`t seen a 16 ft. harrow since the H Farmall days.
This is a power harrow. Normally you use up all 90 hp on a 3 metre one.
The JD will run the 5 metre one on 1300 rpm, quite a lazy mode, and quite fuel efficient. Still, only at 3 mph.
We are working the land (which has previously been ploughed BTW) for potatoes and turf for sale. For a pasture or a field to harvest, we would go a lot faster.
So, once you have that info into yer head, stop comparing apples to oranges (disc to power or rather disc to unknown) as well as showing off with the good try of an unknown name like Farmall (we had a Farmall A before we got a Fordson Dextra in 1958), and as well you know nothing of the soil (which means oranges and apples again)
In the clay grounds near Cambridge in England, as well as a decent part of France, you will need 40 hp for each 16" cutter of your plough, - on straight and smooth ground. Here we need 20 or less. I pull a 5 cutter nicely with a 95hp. (The tractor in question). So, it is the difference with the soil.
Same goes with powerharrowing. Depends how deep you go and how good the finish is supposed to be as well.
So, don't try lecturing on things that you don't have data on, especially in a mocking mode please.
PS. My field operations go back uncomfortably long, and are still at large. Not U.S. sized, but very very very very different stuff. Sand, bog, earth, mixtures, and soil covered lava, hehe.:D
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PS2
Oil pressure sensor looked faulty, and has been replaced.
But the pressure relive valve suggestion was IMHO very good, and TY for the info, - that one I will keep in the back of my head.
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Also check that the oil you are using is approved for compression ignition engines. Oil for gasoline engines does not act well in diesels.
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You joking rpm?
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No Angus, I'm being serious. Oil has ratings for the type engine it is suitable for. Oil designed for spark ignition will perform poorly when used in a compression ignition engine.
link (http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/nafl/auto/content/motoroils.shtm#choose)
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Some oils are rated for both petrol and diesel engined passenger and light commercial vehicles, but a I don't think the dual rated oils would be the best choice in a heavy duty commercial diesel engine like a Perkins though. And it's not unheard of where an oil rated for only one type of engine is used in another. Since the amount of the anti ware additive ZDDP has been reduced in SM rated petrol engine oil for emission reasons, Rotella diesel oil for instance, because of it's high level of ZDDP has been used by some who care about excessive engine ware and flat tappet cam and lifter ware in particular.
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Originally posted by Angus
You joking rpm?
you don't use rotella in your diesels?
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Just diesel. We only get one sort.
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you guys don't have access to the best performing diesel engine lubricant yet devised? barbarous.
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Originally posted by Angus
as well as showing off with the good try of an unknown name like Farmall
Farmall is an unknown name? How did you have the A then?
Hilarious Angus. :D
PS. My field operations go back uncomfortably long, and are still at large.
I may have asked before, but how old are you Angus?
Not U.S. sized
Evident. :aok