Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: YeOldePilot on June 11, 2007, 03:17:16 PM
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Hello, as the title explains I'm new to AH and I'd like to ask some questions before i venture further in this game. I've been playing for a while now, almost a week.
I use the mouse for controlling my aircraft, and i was thrilled to see the game having mouse support when i first signed on, but now I'm starting to feel the mouse short-comings.
I have for example never been able to shoot down an enemy pilot with my own aircraft*Que laughs*:P, simply because its very hard to maneuver with the mouse(as i read you guys have pointed out in several posts) so now i am for the first time going to buy a Joystick.
Thing is though, i don't want to spend too much on the first one, as i am unsure whether this is the game for me yet. So i looked around and found two joysticks i could consider purchasing as my first one(about 30$ each) i will list them as follows: Logitech Attack 3, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro PC.
However I've read on these forums that the Logitech joysticks are inferior, so here is the question(man I'm really making a long post, bah)as these are just the starter ones, are these suitable for a first stick or better yet, superior to my mouse and keyboard or will their short-comings simply not make a difference?
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post!
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For about $10 more MSRP (less on sale) you can get a Saitek Cyborg Evo (http://www.saitekusa.com/USA/prod/cyborg_evo.htm) which is a good starter stick - lots of buttons, throttle, twist rudder control, and able to support right or left handed use.
Regards,
Hammer
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Saited ST-290 pro. It has about 5 or so less buttons than a Wingman 3D but it can be had at Wal-Mart for 20 bones. I love the feel and funcionality of the wingman, but on average they last between 2 and 4 weeks for me. I've had the Saitek for over a year with virtually no complaints except that hat wearing out a lil bit. I will take a worn hat over an unflyable stick that spikes constantly thanks to the crappy pots. Also the Saiteks have adjustable grips for differnet hand sizes.
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In between those 2 choices are the new Saitek Aviator which has a bunch of buttons, toggles, and dual throttles. Sells for around 40$, it is new, but I've heard nothing but good things about this stick so far.
Ohh and Welcome to Aces High :)
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Well first off welcome to Aces High.
I've had a Saitek ST-290 Pro for 5 years. I highly recommend that. Just bought an X52, but the ST-290 still works great. (ST290s are about $20 at radioshack)
Also, I flew with a mouse for a year or so, I got used to it...but then I got a stick and loved it.
Well, and I'll see ya in the skies.
P.S.: Logitech's are crap, otherwise noted as Logicrap
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Thanks for the replies all, and i have now decided to get me a saitek cyborg evo.
They weren't that much more expensive, so i figure I'd be a fool not to. so once again thanks for all the help and ill see you in the skies!
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Using a good joystick I almost always make beautiful three-point landings. Using a Logitech joystick, I cannot land my airplane without crashing and exploding. I'm glad you've decided to forsake Logitech. That company should be ashamed of the trash it puts out.
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Originally posted by YeOldePilot
Thanks for the replies all, and i have now decided to get me a saitek cyborg evo.
They weren't that much more expensive, so i figure I'd be a fool not to. so once again thanks for all the help and ill see you in the skies!
A tip for you - buy your Evo at a store that offers a replacement policy for a few extra dollars. Evos are notorious for developing nose bounce and requiring constant calibration with time.
Chances are you'll be hooked on AH shortly and eventually will want to upgrade your stick for more bells & whistles. CH Products is the way to go at that point.
And, welcome to AH :D
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My highest recommendation is that you hit up Ebay for a good-as-new Microsoft Force Feedback 2. I've never had a stick with such quality, precision, and endurance.
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It's really a shame, but MicroSoft no longer makes Joystikes, however, you can find them online. They are worth the price. 8 years and going strong.
It was built to last and it shows.
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To this day I'm upset MS shut down one of their few divisions that produced an affordable, well-crafted solid product.
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MS Sidewinder 3D Pro here. 11 years and still like new.
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I'd stay away from the ST290 if the Evo is equal in price. The ST hinders your ability to maintain constant view of the guy your fighting with. The old saying, "Lose sight, lose the fight" is very true. The second or two you spend requiring the guy in a knife fight is more than enough time to send you back to the Tower. In a game of split seconds you may be giving away the advantage using an ST.
Anyone who'se trained with me at all know I spend alot of time getting folks to use thier views effectively.
Hope this helps.
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ive got a microsft ff 2 and its something like 8-9 years old and its working beautifuly at this time, those sticks are heaven ;)
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
The ST hinders your ability to maintain constant view of the guy your fighting with.
Elaborate please?
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Originally posted by Geary420
Elaborate please?
It has its buttons located around the 8 way hat. No buttons are located on the base. Ergo, if you are using your thumb to press the views how do you use the "look up modifier"? While it can be done there are other sticks like the Evo which will accomdate you much easier than the ST.
My recommendation is based on being able to have a HOTAS using an inexpensive stick. As you are aware. HOTAS does away with the requirement for the keyboard in the middle of a fight. The ST falls short in that regard. THe EVO does not.
Alternatively, you can chose to stay with an ST and spend $100 for a used or new TrackIrPro and use the hat for other jobs.
If it's a choice between a mouse and a hat the ST wins hands down. If you begin to compare sticks to sticks the ST comes up short.
The good news is "anyone" can adjust what they do to make anything work for them no matter how difficult. But in a game that requires concentration on just flying the airplane, then expecting a person to think and fly effectively in a fight using a keyboard puts them at a distinct disadvantage using an ST. If you can get something that does more, much easier, for about the same money why would you settle for less?
As I previously mentioned I don't really like to list sticks by name but if one stick has the minimums required for this game and the other doesn't I'd be doing a disservice to any noob who shows up in AH2.
One last thing to think about is you come to AH2 and find out it has a steep learning curve. It looks cool but you don't even have a stick. You have no idea if this is the game for you. Why would someone not suggest a minimum list of things a stick should have to at least give you a fighting chance in the game. If the noob decides this is the game for them they evenually upgrade to something diffferent like separate stick, throttle, and pedals. If they decide it's not for them the stick will work with any boxed game they buy so they're not out anything.
For a new player it's a win-win situation.
Hope this helps.
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Ok, I assumed you were speakin in regards to the modifier but wanted to make sure there wasn't something else I was missing. Personally I have never used the modifiers at all. I have the views set pretty good for all the different rides and I don't really have problems tracking the enemy. Next go around I think I might give the new Saitek model mentioned above a try and if I have an extra button I'll play around with it a bit.
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Originally posted by Geary420
Ok, I assumed you were speakin in regards to the modifier but wanted to make sure there wasn't something else I was missing. Personally I have never used the modifiers at all. I have the views set pretty good for all the different rides and I don't really have problems tracking the enemy. Next go around I think I might give the new Saitek model mentioned above a try and if I have an extra button I'll play around with it a bit.
Keypad 5 is your look up key. It is also called a "look up modifier" because it modifies your views "up" approx 30 degrees when you press kypd 5 while looking around. By assigning it to a button (a button which does not interfere with your using you view hat) you never have to reach for kypd 5 in a fight but just hit the button to maintain constant visual on the contact (con). The concern with the ST is all the buttons are on top and located around the 8 way hat. If you're using your thumb on the hat you are forced to either reach up with your other hand to press the look up modifier or reach across to the keyboard to press kypd 5.
The difference with the previously mentioned joystick is it has buttons on the base. One of those can be assigned to kypd 5 and you can use it while still using your throttle and other buttons.
Again the reason I mentioned it is because, again, you begin with a steep learning curve. Why compound the problems by having a stick handicap?
Hope this helps.
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I bought the Saitek Evo and i must say I'm loving it, I'm doing much better now :) now I'm just learning the game, like you guys mentioned it has a steep learning curve but I'm slowly improving i think, so all in all i like the evo allot and think its a good starter stick. The funny thing is i am also getting used to a joystick in itself since I've never really used one, so its a double curve hehe but so far so good!
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Don't be afraid to die! Mix it up, and whenever you die try to determine what you did that allowed you to be shot down. But above all, don't be afraid to fight people on even terms.
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YeOld,I got 4 or 5 logijunks sitting on a shelve collecting dust.
I would advise you to pay abit more and get an extended warranty:aok
You can ussually purchase an extra 2 years of "no questions asked" warranty for about 20% extra.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I was able to run out just before closing and grab a brand new stick,so I could fly.
I now have an X52 setup,had it over a year now,without any real problems.
So even if you get Saitek stick,ask about the warranty.Saitek's require you to send the stick to Cal. for repair.Make sure that the store you buy yours from atleast offers to replace your stick under the manufactures warranty:O
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"However I've read on these forums that the Logitech joysticks are inferior,"
I've had my Logitech 3D Pro for 3 years now and have not had a problem with it. I like the way if feels its very smooth. I thought about buying an Evo until i borrowed a friends Evo i thought it was a piece of junk
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Originally posted by JimBeam
"However I've read on these forums that the Logitech joysticks are inferior,"
I've had my Logitech 3D Pro for 3 years now and have not had a problem with it. I like the way if feels its very smooth. I thought about buying an Evo until i borrowed a friends Evo i thought it was a piece of junk
I have 1 too for 3 years, Jimbeam. I do have to calibrate each time I play AHII though.
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You guys that are using the MS sticks. Are you using them as gameport or usb? I was told that you had to use GP because they won't work with usb. Just wanting to clarify this so the guy doesn't go out & buy a MS stick that he can't use. I have a new MS stick that I can't use because my PC doesn't have a gameport.:cry :furious
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Originally posted by MajWoody
You guys that are using the MS sticks. Are you using them as gameport or usb? I was told that you had to use GP because they won't work with usb. Just wanting to clarify this so the guy doesn't go out & buy a MS stick that he can't use. I have a new MS stick that I can't use because my PC doesn't have a gameport.:cry :furious
You can buy a "game port to USB" adapter. Radio shack use to carry them. I used my analog CH stuff for years through one.
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I'm bummed, I need a new EVO (I'm brutal on joysticks, and most any other inanimate object within arm's reach whilst flying) and it looks like Circuit City/Best Buy have chucked it in favor of STwhatever and X52--will have to order one online:cry
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
You can buy a "game port to USB" adapter. Radio shack use to carry them. I used my analog CH stuff for years through one.
I was told that since MS quit making them there is no longer any support for them & they will only work with GP & not usb. I tried to get mine to work usb & it wouldn't.:cry
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Woody,
I had a USB MS sidewinder pro. Unfortunately I just gave it away or I'd send it to you. I'm assume they are avaialble on ebay. I'm assuming, of course, that the USB MS sticks are the same quality as the game port versions. I'm a lefty and it was never comfortable for me to use. I had an Evo that was OK but my lefty modified CH gear is much better. Thanks to Homeboy.
Bigprop