Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lazs2 on June 16, 2007, 10:27:21 AM
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What ever do we do? those of you who think that man is causing all or most or even enough of the global warming to matter....
What would you have us do?
For those of you who think there is no real amount of man made element or that it is so tiny as to not matter..
What would you be willing to do "just in case"
Those who are uncertain... same question.. what would you be willing to do "just in case"?
This can range from everyone on the planet slitting throats this afternoon to... nothing.
It could mean stop traveling in anything that uses fuel to making the UN the supreme commander and leader of the world with absolute power over our lives.
I will start... I am willing to put those flourecent bulb thingies in the house now that they work good (come on with a good start and are bright without a flicker)
I will also vote for new nuke plants if I get a chance and offshore drilling and in anwar.
lazs
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Suggestion: Government should give out free military full auto rifles to population to fight off global warming. Once population gets armed, global warming will not have a chance. ;)
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I've cut down on needless driving, and have replaced all the Light Bulbs in the house with the flourecent bulb Lights and that has seem to lowered the Power Bill some,but i guess we all have to start with baby steps before we all can learn to walk :)
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ok... we cut down on using that $3 a gallon gas a little bit and put in those bulbs that were passed out free by so many different outfits.
Is that enough? do we feel better now? How bout buying new appliances that are energy compliant?
I just bought a washer that is 100% more efficeint than the 20 year old one that gave up.. will do the same when the 15 year old fridge gives up... it will save me money but I can say that I am saving the planet.
lazs
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Me and my wife have done that, all new appliances when i remodeled, then had more insulation blown into the walls and attic to get better heating and cooling values.
I didnt think i had to write down every improvement to justify posting in this thread, as far as feeling better YEP sure do.
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If your driving, drive the speed limit. So many tears of anger shed over $3.xx a gallon and morons are driving 15mph over the posted limit.
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well... you should feel better.. you are saving money for very little effort.
I will replace one single pane broken window with a double pane... I won't completely seal the house tho because I believe a house does need to breathe to a certain extent.
So far tho... I don't see any net sacrafices.
How would you feel about making the UN the supreme power of the world with it's own army and total rule of the planet... anyone not complying with their laws would be interned or shot?
is that too far?
How bout outlaw any car that gets less than say... 40 mpg? oh hell.. if we are gonna solve it.. 90mpg!!! force the scumbag car makers to release all those 90mpg cars they have been hiding from us that drive like lincoln towne cars and carry 6 plus two in the trunk.
lazs
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Well i will say that my next project is to replace the Windows.
I have a few that seem to have lost there seal and the argon gas has escaped, Replacing them will cost a good chunck of change but were saving.
The Walls of a home are meant to be sealed and with proper roof venting any home will breathe properly.
As far as the UN, Well i'd have to say No, Hitler tried that and we all know what happened there.
As far as the Automotive Industries are concerned, I think all of us know that they are capable of better fuel mileaged vehicles, but bow down to Big Oil.
Can that be proven, That i can not answer... sense that is just my Opinion.
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so you will do something if it saves you money and... you think that detroit and others can make cars that get better milage.. I agree they can.. look at the little "smart car"... would you buy one?
fulmar...yes.. slowing down will save fuel. it is your decision.. Do you think the govenment should just drop the speed limit to say.... 55? how bout 25?
Are you willing to do that to stave off this disaster that may or may not be happening due to us?
I am not seeing any real pain here. I want to see some real sacrafice...
come on folks... we are talking the potential to end all life as we know it in the next decade or so...
You should be willing to slit your throat to make room for your grandkids at least.
lazs
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99% of people cut down on energy waste to benefit themselves, not the planet.
I know no one that does it with the planet as the first priority for upgrading appliances, fuel efficient cars, etc.
They may state that they've done so for the planet, but we're living in the "me" generation and they're fooling no one but themselves.
Conservation is done to benefit ones self. The "save the planet" residual feel-good by-product is just that, a feel good measure to make one feel good about themselves.
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well....
That was sure a mean thing to say.
lazs
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Yes I'll agree, that i do these things to save money, and if it betters the Planet in the process thats even better. :D
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me too.
lazs
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I vote we give al gore a choice. He learns to live in a 1200 sqft house with minimal apliances and electricity draw or he gets shot. Either way that saves enough energy for at least 20 other normal homes. Or is it 200 homes.
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I have not seen any concrete evidence that says Man is soley responsible for global warming. I believe based upon typical earth cycles that Mother earth takes a big crap every now and then. Personally I am very skeptical about any so called "Expert" and his or her opinion. I do believe that we as a nation can do anything we collectively put our minds to. whether it be conservation, border security or natural resource self reliance. The real question is why don't we? Which goes back to Global warming and how we can help. We are conditioned Sheepel! We are media potatos. Pavlovs dog theory in action here boys and girls. We have bought into this stuff big time. It will always be about the almighty Green (and I do not mean Green in conservation kind of way) So keep buying those SUV's and accept paying $3.50 a gallon for gas. Because we are SHEEPEL. Any one remember the Movie "Soylent Green"?:noid
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Originally posted by 68ZooM
I've cut down on needless driving, and have replaced all the Light Bulbs in the house with the flourecent bulb Lights and that has seem to lowered the Power Bill some,but i guess we all have to start with baby steps before we all can learn to walk :)
What about all that toxic mercury you're going to be sending to the landfill when those compact fluorescents burn out?
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We have had those lightbulbs in the house for years.
The house is fixed up so temps are lower at night than during the day. Its also well insulated.
None of us are fans of driving so we have never done much of that.
Both me and the missus works from home so no need to commute.
Our hobby is sailing and that doesnt use much power apart from what it took to build the damn thing ofcourse. The motorboat uses abit but overall we use less gas than most families.
We were planning on getting one of those thingies that goes on the roof and heats water and whatnot but we are not sure about that or getting one of those systems that takes water from the ocean in the winter. The latter prolly works best as it is effective in the winter and the roof thingy works best when its sunny and warmer outside.
All in all, we have very low carbon footprint as its called.
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so.. even nelson does not want to sacrafice anything. why even have a power boat? why have a house bigger than say a studio apartment if you have no children?
I also have a 1970's bmw motorcycle that gets 50 mpg and did not cost energy to make past 1970.
I am doing more it appears than the hand wringers.
Oh.. I have a rechargeable electric lawn mower (the gas is so bad I hate messing with gas powered ones)... I should be chastising all you hand wringers for not coming up to my standards...
My Lincloln gets 23 mpg or better and I don't fly anymore.
my home is a duplex that I built 25 years ago and I rent out the other side. I am not wasting resources. I have installed fans...
lazs
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lol lazs.. go fish somewere else. Every time i buy a new bulb and all the money extra i spend on expencive stuff to save power i do. Cheap shots at nothing is all you ever have lazs :rofl
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nelson... point is... I probly do more than you do.
point is... the left is only willing to make others suffer... what they do is too important to restrict. I am not interested in boats.
There is no need for boats and the energy to go to the water and use em and make em and all the rest. Yet... I don't tell you that you can't own and use the useless things.
lazs
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I'm tired of global warming, can I go back to worrying about bird flu for awhile?
or SARS?(the movies were very exciting tho! thank you)
here is a fun thought- warmer planet = less clothing!(Laz please feel free to not participate in the "less clothing " movement thank you)
less clothing =less clothing manufacture!
less manufacture = less greenhouse gases!
wow the effect we have on global warming virtually negates itself!
its like strapping buttered toast(that always lands butter side down) to a cat that always lands on its feet... amazing
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We (the human race) are going to burn every last bit of carbon-based fuel available to us. As soon as we all accept that, relax and enjoy the problem the better.
90mpg cars are just prolonging the problem and will allow us to make congestion even worse.
I say go out and enjoy your cheap fuel, because if you don't, someone in China will.
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Mandate the inclusion of passive heating and cooling technologies into new housing construction.
Place a cap on the cubic volume of a new home constructed for use by families of less than four people. (Can't wait for the response to this one...but do we really need 4,000 square foot homes with ten to twelve foot ceilings.)
Failing the passage of such a cap, mandate that those who exceed the proposed cap must purchase enough solar panels to provide at least 50% of the home's energy requirements, or enough to hide such grotesque mansions from public view.
Forget mandated mpg figures for new cars. Instead, develop short and long-term goals for converting the nation's automotive fleet to the use of biodiesel or other environmentally friendly fuels.
Encourage the nation's drivers that live within five miles of their jobs to ride bicycles to work.
Establish a national goal of total conversion of power plants from coal and oil to nuclear and hydroelectric sources.
Launch a world-wide campaign to cut the world's human population by 75% within the next century, for excess population is the root of all environmental problems. (Yeah, right.)
Have airliners crossing the oceans do so in flights of four, in box formation, tethered together by a giant surgical mask to help filter pollutants out of the atmosphere.
Convince the Chinese government that they must give up the use of fossil fuels.
Live in grass huts whenever possible to prevent the denuding of our forests which help filter the atmosphere.
Stop the building of "get-away homes." Any true American who goes on vacation should be willing to live in a tent.
Brush and floss daily. That means your dog as well.
Force all new urban construction to move underground. Cities are a blight on the landscape and produce the lion's share of the world's pollution. All transportation in cities would be mass transit.
Oops. Did I go over the top? I can never tell.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by lazs2
nelson... point is... I probly do more than you do.
point is... the left is only willing to make others suffer... what they do is too important to restrict. I am not interested in boats.
There is no need for boats and the energy to go to the water and use em and make em and all the rest. Yet... I don't tell you that you can't own and use the useless things.
lazs
Have i told you what to do?
Point is, that me and alot of others already have done alot before it was even an issue for some. And for some its still not an issue. There is no need for you to go play with guns or hotrods or whatever either and they are totally pointless activities. I am leftist if you have to put me in this or that category (atleast by american standards) and i am doing my bit and im not im telling others what do do.
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Use all the oil as fast as we can! , they will think up somethin better/ more eco-friendly to use, *******s (rag-challenged people) will be out of business, and global warming will be over (assuming of course, we ARE causing it, which is still disputable)
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Originally posted by lazs2
fulmar...yes.. slowing down will save fuel. it is your decision.. Do you think the govenment should just drop the speed limit to say.... 55? how bout 25?
On the average you save 15% on fuel econonmy driving 55mph compared to 65mph. The % varies between make and model. The cruising speed for most vehichles is designed to be around 55mph. Currently you looking at an EPA rating sticker on a car it will say 35 highway. Now this is calculated at 55mph, not 65mph. Currently the EPA is recalculating their formulas and you'll see new stickers in the next year or two that are caclulating mpg at higher speeds (i.e. freeway compared to highway) and to factor in current driver habits. The original formulas were drafted some 20 years ago.
In my car, if I drive 55mph, I can get upwards of 36mpg or so. If I drive 65 around 30mpg and about 28mpg at 75mph.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Conservation is done to benefit ones self. The "save the planet" residual feel-good by-product is just that, a feel good measure to make one feel good about themselves.
Yes, "save the planet" means "keep it the way I want it", or at best "keep it the way all humans should want it". The term "save the planet" is clearly a meaningless phrase unless you ask "for who?" Objectively, everything we do to "destroy the planet" is in fact perfectly natural. If we were to nuke the planet and kill everyone, I doubt the universe would notice. I guess it doesn't matter anyway, since all of the worthy humans would be in heaven. :D
As far as sacrifices, we've already made mandated sacrifices. We put Cats and EGRs on cars so that we don't have to swim through a hydrocarbon soup when we're in LA. Nothing holy in that, we just thought it would be nice, as a society, to breath somewhat fresh air. And the government stepped in to solve that little prisoner's dilemma. What do you want lazs2, anarchy? Or are you a libertarian?
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Originally posted by uberhun
I have not seen any concrete evidence that says Man is soley responsible for global warming. I believe based upon typical earth cycles that Mother earth takes a big crap every now and then. Personally I am very skeptical about any so called "Expert" and his or her opinion.
Skepticism, eh? Do you apply that laudable critical thinking skill to your Pastor too? ;)
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Grow trees.
Grow nitro-binding plants in the wastelands.
Use the money you saved by buying those bulbs and thereby lowering your bills for the project :D
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Originally posted by Angus
Grow trees.
Grow nitro-binding plants in the wastelands.
Use the money you saved by buying those bulbs and thereby lowering your bills for the project :D
Why do you want to CONTRIBUTE to global warming? :O
Before compact fluorescent light bulbs and ethanol, the first line of defense against global warming was planting trees.
Forests, after all, cool the atmosphere by drinking in carbon dioxide from the air. A new study, however, published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reports that forests' other climatic effects can cancel out their carbon cleaning advantage in some parts of the world. Using a three-dimensional climate model, the research team mimicked full global deforestation and also studied the effects of clear-cutting in different regions of latitude, such as the tropics and boreal zones. Apparently, these natural carbon sinks only do their job effectively in tropical regions; in other areas, they have either no impact or actually contribute to warming the planet. In fact, according to this model, by the year 2100, if all the forests were cut and left to rot, the annual global mean temperature would decrease by more than 0.5 degree Fahrenheit.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=DCA231BA-E7F2-99DF-3105874539B83ECB&ref=rss
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Originally posted by lazs2
I just bought a washer that is 100% more efficeint than the 20 year old one that gave up..
100% more efficient? So you have a washer that uses no energy at all?
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Originally posted by FBBone
What about all that toxic mercury you're going to be sending to the landfill when those compact fluorescents burn out?
I dont know sense they have been burning fine close to 2 years now.
What about all the Every Retail store that use's Fluorescents have you ask them the same question?
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What would you have us do?
I would suggest you do anything that you feel is in the best interest of future generations.
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What to do about Global Warming?
Take Al Gore up to a Volcano and toss his arse in?
Next Prob?
Mac
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Originally posted by Dadano
I would suggest you do anything that you feel is in the best interest of future generations.
gHey
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Originally posted by 68ZooM
I dont know sense they have been burning fine close to 2 years now.
What about all the Every Retail store that use's Fluorescents have you ask them the same question?
They pay a lot of $$$ for recycling, and they have to report "mercury spills" to hazmat teams (read:broken lamps) (whether or not they ACTUALLY do is another thing). Are you prepared to do this, or will you just let em go to the landfill when they die? Which part of "OUR" environment are "YOU" willing to protect? What about all the OTHER fluorescent lamps? WHO WILL TURN THEM IN????? Compact fluorescent Lamps can only be trusted in the hands of responsible people which, if you go by todays gun laws, are nobody. I think you might not know how to responsibly handle the great burden that IS compact florescent lamps. Go incandescent, if it saves only one life, isn't it worth it?????????:aok
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There aren't actually many solid answers in here. Is it safe to say we've identified a problem but have no idea how to correct it?
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The one fact we have is that the earth's temperature has gone up 3/4 of ONE degree in the last century, and this apparently causes pacific islands to founder, and the polar ice caps to melt.
“I have no doubt that global — that a trend of global warming exists,” NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said in a taped interview that aired Thursday on National Public Radio. “I am not sure that it is fair to say that is a problem we must wrestle with.”
“I guess I would ask which human beings, where and when, are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now, is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that’s a rather arrogant position for people to take,” Griffin said.
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Something has to be done about the reliance on oil, and it has to start today especially if the proponents of peak oil are correct and there is only a 5 to 10 year supply left. Chasing oil wells around the globe to try to get to ever more difficult and costly fields is not going to stave off the ineviatable. One of the smarter things to come out of the CNN republican debate was the idea that renewable energy should be the new Apollo program of this century - but that project should be started now while industry has the capability.
Tronsky
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Originally posted by VOR
There aren't actually many solid answers in here. Is it safe to say we've identified a problem but have no idea how to correct it?
It might be possible that neither the answers nor even a proper description of the problem will be here, in the O Club of the Aces High BBS. Unlikely, I admit, given the vast extent of scientific knowledge that is present here.
But at least we can be sure of one thing. The objective scientific reality of the matter is no doubt closely tied to party affiliation. That being the case, I would recommend the next best source of information: politicians. Such as Al Gore and Jerry Falwell. You might have to wait for the Rapture, but unfortunately the Lake of Fire is gonna throw off our current data a bit.
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ahem: 3/4 of ONE degree over 100 years......they can't even decide what portion of said 3/4 degree can be attributed to us gas guzzlers
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“I guess I would ask which human beings, where and when, are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular morality that we have right here today, right now, is the best morality for all other human beings. I think that’s a rather arrogant position for people to take,” Griffin said.
Looks like Griffin = Lucifer.
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Originally posted by phookat
It might be possible that neither the answers nor even a proper description of the problem will be here, in the O Club of the Aces High BBS. Unlikely, I admit, given the vast extent of scientific knowledge that is present here.
Haven't you seen the infamous swindle documentary? You don't need the actual knowledge itself, because it is all contained therein. You just need to recognise that it is the ultimate authority on the subject.
:rofl
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Well, if we haven't found a concrete solution to the problem is it possible we haven't ironed out a concrete source?
*Runs away*
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Originally posted by VOR
Well, if we haven't found a concrete solution to the problem is it possible we haven't ironed out a concrete source?
*Runs away*
Why would you want to run away, after making such a brilliant and incisive statement as that?
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well... shuckins is the only one getting into the spirit of the thing.. he is willing to inflict massive suffering on others.
55mph? didn't we have that once? short memories. fulmar... do you drive 55 mph on the freeway? I bet you cause a lot of accidents. Do you think the government should be bigger and make new laws mandating 55 mph and hire more police to enforce it?
curval... I don't think curval want to show us his house... not shukins at least...
nelson... he changed his bulbs so he can continue to rant about man made global warming.
socialism caused catalytic converters? the government restrictions caused them to be invented? someone doesn't know much about the automotive field.. they were around and invented in the 60's but there was no practical way to make em. Same for smog laws.. the first smog laws caused more smog... computers made smog devices work. small cheap computers to work electronic fuel injection... until that happened... all the regulation in the world only made things worse.
Solar panels are getting better... when they reach $2,000 for a system that you can buy at home depot and install yourself or have them do it and it will cut your $100 electric bill by 75%... everyone will have one. just like small computers.
lazs
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Originally posted by VOR
Well, if we haven't found a concrete solution to the problem is it possible we haven't ironed out a concrete source?
*Runs away*
HERETIC!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/invasion2.jpg)
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I'd like to thank everyone for doing all of this.
Now I can run my pool pump an extra couple hours of day to counteract you all and keep the chlorine level extra high for summer fun.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
I'd like to thank everyone for doing all of this.
Now I can run my pool pump an extra couple hours of day to counteract you all and keep the chlorine level extra high for summer fun.
Sorry, but I neglected to mention that I ran my wood stove Friday night, (was like 50 outside here in sw VA) so THAT counteracts your pump...perhaps you could buy some carbon credits from a tree-hugger:D
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I am fine with that. What I do is for me to save money on things that I don't care about or.. that work just as well or better if they save energy and money.
I drive the aformentioned BMW at 50 mpg.. it does 12 sec quarter miles... it is fun.
I drive a lincoln to get girlfriend and grand daughter around... it gets 23 mph... plenty good for me. if it was exactly the same and got 30 that would be good too.
I drive an Healey with a small block and a el camino with a big block 6 speed.. both get between 5-14 mpg depending.. and worth every penny I spend on gas in one. A roller coaster wastes energy too I bet.
My digital camera is 4 years old with the same rechargable batteries it came with... I don't own an ipod or an xbox or most of the gee wiz electronics people buy and throw away in a year... my cell phones I pay for (3) average about 3 years old and have the original batteries... I have probly bought 10 throw away batteries in the last year for remotes and such.
I have no desire to tell car manufactures what to make. I don't buy new cars anyway... don't like em. I have no desire to tell even algore to stop wasting energy like a madman. nelson can play on his boats and throw electronics away all he desires so far as I am concerned... angus can make his living off polluting fishing boats if he so desires... none of my business.
you all have hobbies and things you like to do that waste energy... that is up to you... you pay for it.
I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when you wasters start pointing fingers at others as being the problem and using the whole phony (or at the very least...exaggerated) man made global warming scam to try to restrict things others do or to get your pet projects or desires funded on the backs of others.
Its pretty disgusting... very lefty... And that is who is behind the whole thing isn't it? the left.
lazs
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Originally posted by bj229r
Sorry, but I neglected to mention that I ran my wood stove Friday night, (was like 50 outside here in sw VA) so THAT counteracts your pump...perhaps you could buy some carbon credits from a tree-hugger:D
I've got news for you, a wood stove is like five pool pumps.
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Well dang, now FIVE people have to either drain their pools or get REALLY big spoons to stir the water, and nets to get the leaves and buggies out. Now I'm going to ride my inefficient, oil-leaking, gas guzzling 1962 Panhead for a few hours.:aok
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I dunno, isn't capturing more of the sun's energy with our greenhouse gases in effect energy conservation? Isn't reflecting it all back out into space rather wasteful? I think we just need to think about how we can make the best use of all this extra free energy we're enjoying.
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Its all so confusing... we really do need the left to tell us what to do.. they went to school after all and know all about marx. They have the best comedians too.
although... turning on the TV is kinda wasteful.. as is the computer we are all on.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
socialism caused catalytic converters? the government restrictions caused them to be invented? someone doesn't know much about the automotive field.. they were around and invented in the 60's but there was no practical way to make em. Same for smog laws.. the first smog laws caused more smog... computers made smog devices work. small cheap computers to work electronic fuel injection... until that happened... all the regulation in the world only made things worse.
Would your hot rod be faster and cheaper without smog controls? Especially if there was no economy of scale associated with them? Would you stick a cat on the pipe if you didn't have to? Sometimes the invention alone doesn't really help, does it. If everyone drove without today's smog devices, would we have a smog problem in the cities? Do you think the smog problem would have solved itself? The fuel efficiency issue is self-correcting from a personal maximum-utility perspective, but the pollution issue isn't.
Just because early engineering attempts sometimes don't work and just because government regulation is not universally and ideally fair and beneficial and prophetic, doesn't mean that prisoners dilemmas don't exist...or that we should live in anarchy. Having a government does not automatically equate to socialism.
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But a government that tries to make everyone equally miserable IS socialist.
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pho.. you don't know anything about cars do you?
new cars are pushing 600hp off the showroom floor... and they are clean. cleaner than mandated in most cases... why is that? the government? LOL... it is progress.
my hot rods are more nostalgic than practical... they are not injected and they could make more hp... in some ranges, and when in tune, they are very clean.
They are fun and not a problem in the scheme of things... only a fraction of a percent of the people have the desire or ability to build em and pay for the fuel and headache and... these hot rods travel very few miles taken as a whole.
To do something like ban them is silly crap... feel good/do nothing stuff. algore burns more energy in a day than 20 families with hot rods.
And there is the point.. all you lefties seem willing to restrict others...
WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE US DO?
WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO?
Are you all willing to have a 100% tax added on fuel (making everything we buy more expensive) and send that money to algore to solve the problem?
are you willing to do that?
or... it the extent of your "solution" to screw in some lightbulbs and rail against everyone elses use of energy (everyone except saint algore and the scientists of course)?
Maybe we could all wear hairshirts and self flagulate?
I am not hearing anything that even remotely "solves the problem" if the problem is defined as man made use of energy.
Hell... I am doing more about it than most of the handwringers and I don't even think it exists (man made global warming).
what a bunch of ineffectual little wussies.
lazs
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Lazs,
I think you should do everything within your power to preach against the idea of man made global warming and the rise of the new world order. Accepting such ideals is accepting slavery, socialism and the scientific rationale.
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Originally posted by Dadano
Lazs,
I think you should do everything within your power to preach against the idea of man made global warming and the rise of the new world order. Accepting such ideals is accepting slavery, socialism and the scientific rationale.
Two of three isn't too bad but I don't think global warming alarmism qualifies as "scientific rationale". More like scientificish speculation.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Mandate the inclusion of passive heating and cooling technologies into new housing construction.
Place a cap on the cubic volume of a new home constructed for use by families of less than four people. (Can't wait for the response to this one...but do we really need 4,000 square foot homes with ten to twelve foot ceilings.)
Failing the passage of such a cap, mandate that those who exceed the proposed cap must purchase enough solar panels to provide at least 50% of the home's energy requirements, or enough to hide such grotesque mansions from public view.
Forget mandated mpg figures for new cars. Instead, develop short and long-term goals for converting the nation's automotive fleet to the use of biodiesel or other environmentally friendly fuels.
Encourage the nation's drivers that live within five miles of their jobs to ride bicycles to work.
Establish a national goal of total conversion of power plants from coal and oil to nuclear and hydroelectric sources.
Launch a world-wide campaign to cut the world's human population by 75% within the next century, for excess population is the root of all environmental problems. (Yeah, right.)
Have airliners crossing the oceans do so in flights of four, in box formation, tethered together by a giant surgical mask to help filter pollutants out of the atmosphere.
Convince the Chinese government that they must give up the use of fossil fuels.
Live in grass huts whenever possible to prevent the denuding of our forests which help filter the atmosphere.
Stop the building of "get-away homes." Any true American who goes on vacation should be willing to live in a tent.
Brush and floss daily. That means your dog as well.
Force all new urban construction to move underground. Cities are a blight on the landscape and produce the lion's share of the world's pollution. All transportation in cities would be mass transit.
Oops. Did I go over the top? I can never tell.
Regards, Shuckins
Why not just say it.
Clone and re-elect Stalin as President of the United States.
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Originally posted by phookat
Why would you want to run away, after making such a brilliant and incisive statement as that?
I didn't want to get my eyes clawed out by the ladies. I need them to look at pr0n.
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Originally posted by lazs2
pho.. you don't know anything about cars do you?
new cars are pushing 600hp off the showroom floor... and they are clean. cleaner than mandated in most cases... why is that? the government? LOL... it is progress.
I'm gonna ask again. Would you use a cat if you didn't have to? Yes or no? If there were no cats, do you think we might have a smog problem in your expert scientific opinion? There is no consumer-driven incentive for any carmaker to install cats; in fact, the opposite incentive is there. You don't think carmakers and consumers want to save money? Once again...on other issues such as fuel economy, everything settles out, but on the issue of emissions, everyone maximizes their personal utility by polluting more. That doesn't mean the solution is immediate martial law and shipment of offenders to Siberia. There are some moderate solutions.
Do you advocate anarchy? Why aren't you complaining about the defense budget since you hate the government so much?
Originally posted by lazs2
To do something like ban them is silly crap... feel good/do nothing stuff. algore burns more energy in a day than 20 families with hot rods.
I agree. You gonna make another wall-of-text post attacking a bunch of strawmen? ;)
Originally posted by lazs2
And there is the point.. all you lefties seem willing to restrict others...
I hear murder is still illegal outside of Texas. Stupid commie laws! :mad:
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Originally posted by VOR
I didn't want to get my eyes clawed out by the ladies. I need them to look at pr0n.
Excellent. :D
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I'm bored... too much time on my hands... got money, so why not make the neighbors wonder.
I'm half way thru laying the keel of an Ark in my back yard. Asking Neighbors if they have pets...
*Knock, Knock, KNOCK!!!*
*Mac* "Hey how ya doing? Just checking with you all again"
*Neighbours* *silent whispers...Honey it's HIM again.* "Sorry we have no pets... The dog ran off last week with the cat"
*Mac* "Geniea Pig maybe? I need two...."
*Neighbours* "Yes 911 he's back again..."
Some people just can't take a joke.
:D
Mac
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beetle/ferndale/lamchop... you think that unrestricted auto travel for no reason other than... freedom to do so...is ok.... if you double whatever milage you got a few years ago?
you are willing to buy a $60k car and screw in some light bulbs.. you are willing to "encourage" others to do so.. what the hell does "encourage" mean? Is it like your gun laws encourage your citizens to be helpless?
phoo.. catalytic converters may or may not have become standard equipment unless mandated. Now they are saying that the converters may be causing problems of their own. computer controled ignition and fuel injection would have happened no matter what and they are the biggest reason cars run cleaner.
I am an individualist... like a less wimpy libertarian... The govenment needs to exist to protect the individuals rights. Before it regulates anything to protect people it needs to be damn sure there is a problem and a solution that does not destroy individuals right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The early smog laws were bad regulation... they simply were laws with no ability to comply at the time unless everyone was willing to drive 4 cyl cars.. our modern V8's put out less smog than 70's jap crapboxes...
The regulation made things worse till the ability to make things better was reached... computers...small ones to run ignition and fuel systems.
This discussion is the same... except.. we really don't know (past the sun heating things up) what is happening... so what we do about it is kinda moot.
not only that but even if we subscribe to the religion of man made global warming... pray at the altar of it... weep and rend our garments...
What to do? mandate things that don't exist? a few years ago the flourecent bulbs were crap... it would have made things worse to mandate em..
Now.. they work well... people will use em to save money and not have to change bulbs all the time (we may be creating a mercury nightmare but...hey...nothing is perfect)
You have to be careful about that pursuit of happiness thing too tho... you have to be careful when you regulate what hobbies or trips people can take. What kind of car they can drive and how much of their income you take away from em to solve the problem.
I have asked you for solutions but got nothing. it seems the left here is not willing to tip their hand... not willing to be forthright.
algore is ok... I will say that... unless something changes.. I will not use more energy than him this year.
problem solved.
lazs
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We'll be burried in our own garbage long before we're burried in ice or burned off the planet.
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What will I do about it?
Nothing. I don`t put out much effort for scams intentionaly.
I`d much more worry about more pressing , immediate problems than some scam and push for power.
If I was going to wring my hands and gnash teeth it would be something worth while............
Global Panziness and Gutlessness. (Seems to be an outbreak of it)
Tainted food and water supply and lack thereof.
The scariest thing on the planet at the moment IMHO is the very distinct possibility of of a Freedomless Outbreak. (It seems to be happening at a very fast rate.)
Without personal freedom there is no life. Might as well not exist without it. Way too much of the world has been been coerced into scams to gain power and control and had most of their individual freedom taken away. In most cases it was given up without so much as an effort to prevent it. Those that don`t have it or have given it up seems to be the biggest promoters of everyone not having it.
That is scarier to me than total nuclear war.
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I'm breaking out my micro-generation rig in 6 months (moving to a new house). That way I can run my a/c full blast while everybody else is sweating their balls off because they can't pay their electricity bills. I freakin' hate bills. I do however really enjoy getting checks back from the power companies.
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I've spent (or will spend over the next 30 years) 1/2 million dollars in my effort to avoid spewing green-house gasses out of my tailpipe. Ok, so saving the earth wasnt my first priority.
We recently bought a house that is literally within visual distance of BOTH our workplaces.
I think I've done my bit with moving 30 miles closer to work, but there are other things we are going to do. We are looking at the Escape hybrid as both our cars are 12-17 years old (200k on her 95 grand prix, 300k+ on my 90 truck).
The house was outfitted with energy efficent appliances, upgraded windows (forget at the moment what the upgrade was, but had something to do with sealing & energy efficency).
I'm also looking into a 'nice' weather mode of transportation, bike, moped, scooter, golf cart something that gets better than the 12 mpg my truck gets.
Am I a tree hugging environmentalist? Nah, but I do realize that sometime in the future our dependance on fossil fuels WILL bite us hard in the ass. Will what I do make a difference? No, but every little bit helps and its not an inconvience.
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Originally posted by lazs2
phoo.. catalytic converters may or may not have become standard equipment unless mandated.
Come on. You know they wouldn't. There is zero reason to include them, and they are an added cost.
Originally posted by lazs2
Now they are saying that the converters may be causing problems of their own. computer controled ignition and fuel injection would have happened no matter what and they are the biggest reason cars run cleaner.
I certainly agree that computers have been a huge help and would have happened anyway. But you still need a cat (or other smog devices). Even with a perfect computer that has zero CO and HC, you are still gonna get NOx. And again, it is absolutely certain that no one would want these devices if they weren't regulated in.
Originally posted by lazs2
I am an individualist... like a less wimpy libertarian... The govenment needs to exist to protect the individuals rights. Before it regulates anything to protect people it needs to be damn sure there is a problem and a solution that does not destroy individuals right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I agree, but that last part is the kicker, isn't it. There are times when one person's freedom has to be restrained a little to allow for another person's life, liberty, and happiness. For example we need a law against murder. I think you would agree that we shouldn't allow the freedom to kill anyone whenever we want to, despite the fact that this is unquestionably an abrogation of individual freedom. The point is that this is not some stark philosophical difference between right and left. It is a difference of opinion as to what kind of governement regulation we should have and where it should be appled. We all have our opinions and none of them are holier than the other. You would advocate government interference in some cases too.
Originally posted by lazs2
The early smog laws were bad regulation... they simply were laws with no ability to comply at the time unless everyone was willing to drive 4 cyl cars.. our modern V8's put out less smog than 70's jap crapboxes...
Yeah, I agree. Like when they mandated lower compression, thus increasing knocking because of reduced squish and requiring timing to be pushed back further, and thereby causing even worse gas mileage despite the lower power output. What a crappy time that was. Look, I'm not gonna defend that ****. The governement is obviously not always right and often makes stupid decisions. All I'm saying is that there are a few situations where we want the government to step in to solve a prisoner's dilemma that we as a society have deemed worthy of solution. They need to be thought about carefully before we get the govt involved, but we can't just stick our fingers in our ears and pretend they don't exist.
Actually the US postal service is a good example of this, in a way. But this post is long enough.
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ok... so ferndale/beetle/lambchop/sybil would gave tax breaks for ethanol if he were king..
That should solve it... I will go for that.
coshy... nice plan.. until you change jobs. we would all like to live near work for a variety of reasons. Unless work is in some craphole of a big blue city and then... I would rather live more modestly anyway.
You can't really buy a house that is very energy ineffiecient these days unless it is very old. so... everyone is doing all they can.
I don't see anyone solving the problems... tiny little feel good bandaids that would not solve the 75% of global warming that the man made global warming religious left tell us is happening... tiny little feel good nothings that are really just things to save them money in any case.
Solar panels are getting cheaper and better... not because the government said they must but because of demand... at this point... you can about break even on the payments on one compared to $0 electrical bill.... soon it will be cheaper to have em than to not...
Why is this happening? power is getting more expensive... fossil fuels are or the government has too much regulation or the oil companies are greedy aholes or any or all of the above... pick whatever floats your boat.. it matters not... fuel is getting more expensive.
The free market will provide solutions. The government needs to tread lightly... the hype needs to tone down..
At least until you lefties are willing to suffer... I want to hear some real plans for suffering to solve the "greatest problem man has ever faced"
or... I want an end to global whining.
lazs
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Laz,
One reason Al Gore may not be all that worried anymore is the link to this article.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7341/
CO2 scrubbers. He has personally endorsed them. If they actually can be implemented on the world scale suggested, I wonder what can of worms is getting opened by needing a way to store all the captured CO2?
This looks promising for bio-deisle, but then you will still need those scrubbers.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/5544/
We have no clue to the cosmic cans of whoop arse we are about to open because we think we MIGHT have a broken thingy to fix called Earth. We thought the internal combustion engine was a world fixing thingy along with petroleum. Now look at us. We think we broke our thingy because of our last great thingy idea. Now we are getting ready to roll out another great world thingy fixing idea. Whats funnier is in the next 5-10 years a new solar technology may well make it possible to coat your roof shingles to become highly efficient solar panels. Or the paint you will use on your house to the point you can sell power back to the grid.
Laz look at global warming for it's real value to governments and business. Population control and short term turn around paridim shift power on a global scale. Don't you think in the next 10 years because of this global cattle prod to our fear and doom receptors that most of the day to day electrical power problems and emission targets will be historical google search items of no importance?
The world is in no danger of ending today or 1000 years from now. All of the arguing and finger pointing about global warming boils down to three groups of humans fighting over the right to control the unwashed sheep masses lives. Give a bunch of scientists, politicians, and global corporations a technology assisted god's eye view of the earth for the first time in human history, do you think they are going to keep their grubby little paws off? ALL THREE groups are made up of FALLIBLE HUMAN BEINGS just like YOU and ME. They are not gods, don't walk on water and can no better tell me what tomorrows lottery numbers will be than I can.
Global warming has all the rude backside cattle prod feeling to it of a massive con job to force us into a direction THEY think we should go. Didn't the petroleum companies buy up all the public transit in LA and SanFran in the 30's or 40's to force people into automobiles??????? :aok
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Originally posted by bustr
The world is in no danger of ending today or 1000 years from now.
That's what you think, fallible human. Jesus has other plans.
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Originally posted by phookat
That's what you think, fallible human. Jesus has other plans.
:rofl
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Originally posted by AWMac
gHey
^trawll
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Why do you want to CONTRIBUTE to global warming? :O
This theory there is about the biggest rubbish I have ever seen, and holds no water. Well, - there is a lot of crap floating around anyway.
BTW, a very recent IR survey (from space) shows forests as much "colder" zones. All fits basically.
Bottom line, all the biomass tying up in a forest is a lot of charbon being sucked from the atmosphere. A rotting forest will bring it back, and some part in the form of Methane. Just ask Jackal if you're confused. :D
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bustr.. I think that you are correct. I also believe that the whole man made global warming issue is a simply another angle at getting power and control.
let's put things out in the open now that we are in the mood thanks to bustr..
We aren't so much talking about ending man made global warming as we are.... controlling the weather... nothing less than that.
The lefties will at least admit to 25-50% of the new global warming as having to do with the sun and volcanoes and other acts of nature or god.
If these trends continue.. we are doomed in any case. it will just take longer... If they reverse... we will be doomed anyway but buried under ice with nothing to eat instead of cooked.
More reality.. oil that is easy to get to with todays tools is getting scarce... the price is going up.. people will want more fuel efficient cars or cars that don't use the stuff... supply and demand will fix it.
power to run our homes is getting more expensive... people will get off the grid or the grid will get cheaper... nuke power.. individual solar... wind.... supply and demand as the tools get better.
the new bulbs are great.. good light... cheap to run and last forever... this was not true of the first ones... if they had been mandated everyone would have had to either keep em on all the time (they took forever to start up) and /or run twice as many (they put out half the light).. it would have made things worse.. like smog laws of the 70's
phoo asked about catalytic converters... here is the holy grail of regulation.. the one thing that socialists can point to as "working" while forcing people to do something.
They are like seatbelts to me... force the car companies to install them. After that... who cares.. I should not be forced to wear a seatbelt or replace a worn out catalytic converter. Fact is tho... most new cars won't run that well without em. and older cars... who cares? there are not enough of em on the road to matter.
I say... tone down the global whining... let the free market take care of it... they say chinas demand for oil will suck the planet dry... how much demand will there be in china for $200 a barrel oil? how many 12 mpg cars will china make and use?
The problems will work themselves out... the free market will do it and the meddling of the left will just make things worse for everyone.
lazs
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Originally posted by Angus
This theory there is about the biggest rubbish I have ever seen, and holds no water. Well, - there is a lot of crap floating around anyway.
BTW, a very recent IR survey (from space) shows forests as much "colder" zones. All fits basically.
Bottom line, all the biomass tying up in a forest is a lot of charbon being sucked from the atmosphere. A rotting forest will bring it back, and some part in the form of Methane. Just ask Jackal if you're confused. :D
What's even more absurd is your claim that "More Trees,=Less Global Warming". Not even close to the truth.
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Ballocks.
(Hint: A tree contains a lot of C)
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Laz,
It's not going to be us as individuals who solve what ever this is. Hydrogen power is the holy grail to eliminate CO2 emission from internal combustion engines. Bio-fuels from what I can tell pollute just as much where CO2 is concerned. Electric motor technology has an evil shadow side in the amounts of carbon based fuel it takes to produce the components and batteries.
A paradim shift in technology and the total infrastructure all the way to the final profit margin will be what solves it. "It" is the real question. Is "IT" really the foundation of energy technology our world relies on, or is the maybe possibly sooner or later world disaster called man made global warming it?
You asked for what this BBS protagonists were each indivigualy willing to do to solve the "IT". As usual the IT becomes a platform for everyone to tell everyone one else they don't agree with what kind of scum sucking peicies of watermelon they think you are and how great, wonderful, scientificaly genius prone and full of saintly virtue they are.
No one on this BBS has any interest in denying themselves anything during their lifetime. But we all WANT the paradim shift, especially with the promise in new energy technologies. No one is arguing against hydrogen or solar or the panthion of emerging technologies. But the how of acheiving the paradim shift is reveling a widening divergence in the human condition.
Because technology has turned our planet into a tiny sandbox in a virtual perspective, two definable human groups are becoming dominant life style ideologies. One wants the sandbox regulated by an oversight elite in the belief that things will run more smoothly and all changes will happen asap after the anointed genius preisthood identify and issue solutions for any problem in the universe. This is due to their basic belief that the average individual is always suspect in their general intelectual and cognitive abilities. The other group wants to be left alone to face and overcome all of the problems in the universe only banding together with others as needed. And in general believes all human beings have and can use most of the cognitive ability we all are born with if they are not conditioned to be DUMB by their ruling elite.
Laz you aint going to get any comitments or answers here. Just a measure of ideological affinities. I noticed no one wanted to talk about the two technologies I linked to. Both are interesting. The website is gizmag.com. Always very interesting technology articles there.
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Originally posted by bustr
Because technology has turned our planet into a tiny sandbox in a virtual perspective, two definable human groups are becoming dominant life style ideologies. One wants the sandbox regulated by an oversight elite in the belief that things will run more smoothly and all changes will happen asap after the anointed genius preisthood identify and issue solutions for any problem in the universe. This is due to their basic belief that the average individual is always suspect in their general intelectual and cognitive abilities. The other group wants to be left alone to face and overcome all of the problems in the universe only banding together with others as needed. And in general believes all human beings have and can use most of the cognitive ability we all are born with if they are not conditioned to be DUMB by their ruling elite.
And right here is a picture-perfect demonstration of a false dichotomy.
At least I agree with you that we should get rid of the priesthood.