Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on June 17, 2007, 10:56:27 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_32ZspW80v4&mode=related&search=
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Balls of steel on that guy. Kills 5, 6th one jumps him and shoots his wristwatch off. He bails and swims to an island where he's traded by natives to a friendly tribe for a sack of rice. Wow.
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I can guarantee that first jap was screaming on 200
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Nice video. Thanks for the link.
He seems like a real good guy who would be fun to know.
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Uh oh....he ho'd someone.
In real combat.
Prepare for the whiners.
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Originally posted by halcyon
Uh oh....he ho'd someone.
In real combat.
Prepare for the whiners.
LMAO... "Japanese Pilot 200: That SOB HO'd me! Only a dweeb HO's! Don't you know how to fly? No way you'd beat me 1 v 1. Wanna go DA?"
Who'd a thunk it? A HO in actual combat?
:)
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Originally posted by halcyon
Uh oh....he ho'd someone.
In real combat.
Prepare for the whiners.
I don't really think the issue of Ho'ing has anything to do with if it took place in real combat or not. The issue is it's used by dweebs in this game because for the most part they suck and can't do anything else.
It's about mutual respect between two guys fighting, It's considered a skill-less cheap shot in a one on one first pass.
If the fight is in a few turns and you get a shot with a HO by all means take it.. However if all you can do is try for a first pass Ho then extend to make another HO and so on.. Well that's a dweebism at it's finest.
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I love it.
Put these guys (whiners in here) in real combat and see what happens. You do what you gotta' do to survive. You guys are real heroes in cartoon airplanes.
So, I dumbly play along in here (Arenas) with 12th Century Knight chivalry ethics and I hold off not firing on the HO on the 1st pass. Sucker bait! All you guys whine about it, but everytime I withold fire, I'm dead.
Whine all you want, call me names, I'll do what I gotta' do in here.
I love that Wildcat, but not in LW.
I'm not too sure the modeling of some of these cartoon aircraft are accurate to the performance of the real deal.
Fun game. And points don't matter above a 500 score.
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Originally posted by crockett
The issue is it's used by dweebs in this game because for the most part they suck and can't do anything else......It's considered a skill-less cheap shot in a one on one first pass....
So Jefferson DeBlanc must have been a "skill-less dweeb" because he shot at the Oscar on the first head on pass...right?
And the issue is that in the game, if you do it at all you're automatically branded a dweeb, even though, as the video shows up there, it was a widely used combat tactic in the Pacific and Europe Theatres.
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crockett summed it up well.
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Originally posted by Daubie
All you guys whine about it, but everytime I withold fire, I'm dead.
You need to learn how to deny enemies that HO shot on the merge. It's easy. Look me up sometime if you'd like me to show you.
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Originally posted by halcyon
So Jefferson DeBlanc must have been a "skill-less dweeb" because he shot at the Oscar on the first head on pass...right?
And the issue is that in the game, if you do it at all you're automatically branded a dweeb, even though, as the video shows up there, it was a widely used combat tactic in the Pacific and Europe Theatres.
Why don't you read the rest of what I posted.
Originally posted by crockett
I don't really think the issue of Ho'ing has anything to do with if it took place in real combat or not. The issue is it's used by dweebs in this game because for the most part they suck and can't do anything else.
It's about mutual respect between two guys fighting, It's considered a skill-less cheap shot in a one on one first pass.
If the fight is in a few turns and you get a shot with a HO by all means take it.. However if all you can do is try for a first pass Ho then extend to make another HO and so on.. Well that's a dweebism at it's finest.
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If u die in a ho who is really the dweeb??? remember the goal is to control the fight, if u go into the HO then hes controling the fight, and your probly ganna lose right?? so stop whining, simple to avoid a ho, turn out and around
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Originally posted by crockett
Why don't you read the rest of what I posted.
Okay fine let's dissect what you said.
Originally posted by crockett
I don't really think the issue of Ho'ing has anything to do with if it took place in real combat or not. The issue is it's used by dweebs in this game because for the most part they suck and can't do anything else.
Okay agreed. If you don't know ACM and only HO then yes.
Originally posted by crockett
It's about mutual respect between two guys fighting, It's considered a skill-less cheap shot in a one on one first pass.
I stand by what I said in my reply. According to what you said right here, you consider the pilot in the documentary to be skill-less since he shot at the Oscar on the HO.
Originally posted by crockett
If the fight is in a few turns and you get a shot with a HO by all means take it.. However if all you can do is try for a first pass Ho then extend to make another HO and so on.. Well that's a dweebism at it's finest.
This is just the same as your first paragraph, which I agree with.
It comes down to ACM+HO = good stick / HO only = dweeb.
I didn't disagree with you in my original reply. All I said was usually any HO'er in any arena is branded a Dweeb, not if you include ACM with it or not...so I don't know why you said read your post again.
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Again, for the umpteenth time. Comparing a HO shot in real combat to a HO shot in AH doesn't work as in real combat the risk was real and in AH the risk is not there.
Your life is on the line and you have no alternative, then HO away, but since no one dies and planes are free in AH, HOing is a cheep way to avoid a fight.
None of us here are trying to survive to get home to our families or are protecting our country from anything. We're sitting in nice chairs by our computers and pretending.
The second we actually start dying in here, then you can justify a HO. Until then, it won't work.
That being said, if you want to HO, go ahead. I'm not going to because I'm not that desperate for a kill. I'd rather try and shoot em in the back after working at it a bit.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Again, for the umpteenth time. Comparing a HO shot in real combat to a HO shot in AH doesn't work as in real combat the risk was real and in AH the risk is not there....Your life is on the line and you have no alternative, then HO away, but since no one dies and planes are free in AH, HOing is a cheep way to avoid a fight.
If their life was on the line and they needed to HO to maximize the chance of ending the fight quickly, how is this considered not applicable to the game?
Not everyone plays the game the same. I like to play objectively, that is taking territory. If I'm covering, say a goon, and I'm going H2H, I'll HO if I think I can down the other guy first rather then letting him past and putting the goon (or whoever) in danger.
Your definition of risk can have many meanings for different people.
Besides, what if someone wanted to roleplay or take the sorties seriously.
Originally posted by Guppy35
The second we actually start dying in here, then you can justify a HO. Until then, it won't work.
That being said, if you want to HO, go ahead. I'm not going to because I'm not that desperate for a kill. I'd rather try and shoot em in the back after working at it a bit.
Sure I can justify a HO:
- you're gang banged
- protecting mission/objective assets (goons/bombers/etc)
- distraction method (from say 1.5k out)
It's not about rank for me, or getting a score off of a kill.
It's making sure the other guy isn't in the air anymore. I'll do whatever it takes to get that done.
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Originally posted by halcyon
If their life was on the line and they needed to HO to maximize the chance of ending the fight quickly, how is this considered not applicable to the game?
Not everyone plays the game the same. I like to play objectively, that is taking territory. If I'm covering, say a goon, and I'm going H2H, I'll HO if I think I can down the other guy first rather then letting him past and putting the goon (or whoever) in danger.
Your definition of risk can have many meanings for different people.
Besides, what if someone wanted to roleplay or take the sorties seriously.
Sure I can justify a HO:
- you're gang banged
- protecting mission/objective assets (goons/bombers/etc)
- distraction method (from say 1.5k out)
It's not about rank for me, or getting a score off of a kill.
It's making sure the other guy isn't in the air anymore. I'll do whatever it takes to get that done.
And if that's your choice in how you play it, then go for it.
Just don't try and connect real combat and real risk with anything we do in here, cause there is no risk and this most definately isn't real:)
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You mean this isn't real?
Jokes aside, you know when you are engaging with a noob... they fly straight at you and start firing from 1k out. When I see that, I only think of one thing; 'Fresh Meat'.
Don't be 'Fresh Meat'.
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I drive a 110 alot, I will fire my 30 mm at any dummy wanting to ho my 110, no matter 1st pass, 2nd pass or 3rd, the 110's strong suit is the ho .If my 110 wins a ho, 90% of the time, who's the dummy?:confused:
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I do what I gotta do to stay alive. If a HO will keep me alive, I'll do it.
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If I die by a HO it's my fault, I may get upset about it but in reality it's more me being annoyed with myself for letting it happen.
As for using the HO myself, if I'm outnumbered I would HO my mother, but not in a 1v1 situation. I say that but just a few days ago "it was me I HO'd ya", I'd been AFK sat down and saw this badguy heading right at me wasn't sure what had happened prior to this so just fired away, well he fired after me so it was MY ho and I died hoping it would show up on his screen as "You have shot down Silat" not me xbrit.
If anyone wants to HO that's fine by me it's your game you decide what you want to do, I don't think any better or worse of a guy that does or doesn't.
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Originally posted by halcyon
So Jefferson DeBlanc must have been a "skill-less dweeb" because he shot at the Oscar on the first head on pass...right?
And the issue is that in the game, if you do it at all you're automatically branded a dweeb, even though, as the video shows up there, it was a widely used combat tactic in the Pacific and Europe Theatres.
Jefferson was a skilless dweeb.
It was his very first enemy engagement.
If he didnt get the overshot on the 5th kill, He would have extended for another HO !!
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do what i do daubie..turn off tracers..if they fire first evade.and take a snapshot same instant..catches alot of ho dweebs by surprise and gets you into acm moves at the same time
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Daubie, remember, it takes to two to have a HO. If you see someone setting up a HO against you, just deny him the shot, don't fly straight at him and, most of the times, you'll end up in a better position for the following fight. Do what Engine said, go practicing it with him (or with me, if you want... but I think I'm a bad teacher ;) ).
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One on one, a HO is the just about the worst move you can make short of flying straight and level. Dive under him and pull around instead. If the other guy goes for the HO, he's set himself up to lose.
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Originally posted by Angry Samoan
Jefferson was a skilless dweeb.
It was his very first enemy engagement.
If he didnt get the overshot on the 5th kill, He would have extended for another HO !!
I think this is funny. An imaginary ace looks at the real thing and claims "skilless dweeb".
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Originally posted by Daubie
I love it.
Put these guys (whiners in here) in real combat and see what happens. You do what you gotta' do to survive. You guys are real heroes in cartoon airplanes.
So, I dumbly play along in here (Arenas) with 12th Century Knight chivalry ethics and I hold off not firing on the HO on the 1st pass. Sucker bait! All you guys whine about it, but everytime I withold fire, I'm dead.
Well, two things. First, as Engine pointed out above, HOs are usually very easy to avoid (especially 1v1 on first merge), and in fact you can gain a significant advantage in the engagement easily by avoiding the HO. So, avoid HO and get easy advantage...sounds like a no-brainer to me. Honestly I don't see why anyone even tries for the HO. But don't take it as a whine, personally I'm quite happy if you HO, usually makes it easier for me to kill you. :)
Second, on the historical "you do what you gotta do" thing. Did RL pilots usually go for the HO, if given the chance? I'm not talking about a deflection shot, I mean a straight HO where the other guy has just as much chance as you in a real game of chicken. Seems to me, just as a survival thing, that in general a real pilot would not go for that.
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Originally posted by Dream Child
I think this is funny. An imaginary ace looks at the real thing and claims "skilless dweeb".
Try the decaf.
Sorry if my humor makes you uptight.
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Can Angry have his bait back before you swallow it !!
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:rofl :lol :rolleyes:
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The same guys who whine about ho'ing are the probably the same guys who run home to land their 4 kills just when the goon is gonna drop troops only to let the goon and its troops get killed. Cant have it both ways. Personally I dont believe in Marquis of Queensbury (?) rules in a gunfight, whether its planes, 9mm's at 10 ft, real life or a game. The planes , weapons and ords for the most part are modelled realistically in order to make the game like real life, so why cant we use a real life tactics? Major Dick Bong speciallized in the HO with his 38, just dont see why it cant be used here. I once had a rook cry his eyes out when I ho'd him. I was upping out of a hangar at a base about to be overrun and he's lining up for an easy vulch, I managed to get just enough nose up atitude to put a burst in him b4 he fired. He lit 200 up with sobs. Vulch OK but not a HO? IMHO its all fair in love and war.
ESU all
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I admit, I'll HO someone now and then but I try to avoid doing it unless its a angled HO (that sound dirty), but anyway, as for the video. I must have missed that espiode but sure i'll catch it again on re-run.
That would be pretty neat if the engine came off like that in the game!:aok
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Originally posted by truck5co
The same guys who whine about ho'ing are the probably the same guys who run home to land their 4 kills just when the goon is gonna drop troops only to let the goon and its troops get killed. Cant have it both ways. Personally I dont believe in Marquis of Queensbury (?) rules in a gunfight, whether its planes, 9mm's at 10 ft, real life or a game. The planes , weapons and ords for the most part are modelled realistically in order to make the game like real life, so why cant we use a real life tactics? Major Dick Bong speciallized in the HO with his 38, just dont see why it cant be used here. I once had a rook cry his eyes out when I ho'd him. I was upping out of a hangar at a base about to be overrun and he's lining up for an easy vulch, I managed to get just enough nose up atitude to put a burst in him b4 he fired. He lit 200 up with sobs. Vulch OK but not a HO? IMHO its all fair in love and war.
ESU all
agree
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generally speaking, in this game, if you want to survive, why would you HO? I'd rather take the time someone is spending trying to HO me, avoiding the chance of dying, losing valuable parts, and move into a better firing position, one that doesn't have his guns trained on me. The only time I HO is if i'm out of options. of course, i don't understand how this game relates to real life, and i surely don't understand how taking a perfectly good airplane, and lining it up nose to nose with another airplane is considered low risk with high chance of surviving.....didn't turn out to good for the oscar.
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Generally a HO in this game is the result of two pilots, both arriving at a point in the sky and both realize that to turn gives the other a distinct advantage. The experience level in this game is seriously less than that of fighter pilots who have been trained well by some of the best. As a result, we find ourselves in situations that the head-on merge is our best option. We would all love a 180 degree deflection shot but in our attempts to gain advantage on the other guy and fill our sights with bogey we tend to neglect closure rate, AOA, AOD, and all other important stuff needed to survive the 1st pass if we don't kill the guy.
In a sense, it is correct to say that not dying for real motivates us to take risks our true heroe's would not have attempted; Maybe.......
But, an inevitable consequence of any digital world is we lack a certain depth perception on a 2d screen, we lack experience of real flight, real training, and real life. Even the best of the best will HO in real life, and in this game as is evidence in the film, and other notorious outakes.
For some, dying is miserable and the .200 lash out is a way of dealing with it. Me, I just let it scroll on by....:),
Not the worst of the worst,,,,but trying
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In the beginning, all you want is to get a kill, any kill. My first kill was la7 vs la7 HO shot and I won. I was very excited. Then all you want is two kills so you can see your name in lights. Then you want 5 then 10. Then you want to land kills all the time, every sortie if possible. Vulching exites you. Then when that becomes boring you become a cherry picker. Eventually that becomes tiring and you start flying more difficult planes. Now you live for the fight, and love it no matter what the outcome as long as it was a good one.
My point?
If you are still defending the HO you simply have not evolved to the next level of play. But eventually you will because the HO will simply get boring. Like crockett said, its not dweebish because it wasnt done in real life, its dweebish because its simple, and anyone can do it.
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You dont wanna get ho'd, dont come at me head on, simple as that.
ESU
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Originally posted by VERTEX
In the beginning, all you want is to get a kill, any kill. My first kill was la7 vs la7 HO shot and I won. I was very excited. Then all you want is two kills so you can see your name in lights. Then you want 5 then 10. Then you want to land kills all the time, every sortie if possible. Vulching exites you. Then when that becomes boring you become a cherry picker. Eventually that becomes tiring and you start flying more difficult planes. Now you live for the fight, and love it no matter what the outcome as long as it was a good one.
My point?
If you are still defending the HO you simply have not evolved to the next level of play. But eventually you will because the HO will simply get boring. Like crockett said, its not dweebish because it wasnt done in real life, its dweebish because its simple, and anyone can do it.
Some good points there. I admit as well, I do have a habit of cherry picking and vulching. But once I get back into the game and back into an rythm, I want to try to get into 1vs1s or at least doing something other then what I have previously (such as BnZ)
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I can't understand why people keep resurrecting dead threads.... necrophilia? :noid
That said, I wanted to avoid another lengthy post, but I can't. I don't agree with a single word of the following....
Originally posted by A8Hunter
Generally a HO in this game is the result of two pilots, both arriving at a point in the sky and both realize that to turn gives the other a distinct advantage.
That's absolutely not true! You arrive at that point only if you want to! Let's clear what I mean: I can think of 3 possible HOs... the one that occurs in the middle of a big furball, with lots of planes, the one that occurs in an already begun 1 vs 1 fight and, finally, the one that occurs at the first merge, usually with planes running straight on at one another with guns blazing.
Of all these 3, only the first one could fit your statement and it's the only kind of HO I can accept. When you are in the middle of a furious furball, you have to take any shot you can, especially if you're alone or outnumbered. But in the other 2 situation, a HO gives NO real advantage of any type. It's just the most easy, skill-less shot you can take.
And more than that, in the third situation I outlined, it's only detrimental, for, if your opponent don't go for it but try to get angles on you, he will eventually win the fight. In fact, I can't really figure out a situation in which a HO can occur where turning will give your opponent a distinct advantage... it is the exact contrary!
The experience level in this game is seriously less than that of fighter pilots who have been trained well by some of the best.
There are threads in this BBS where this matter has been discussed... they surely had a deeper knowledge of flying and fighting from a theoretical POV, but we have a lot more of hours of both, and, most of all... we don't die, so we can try whatever we want and that gives us more "experience" than they had.
As a result, we find ourselves in situations that the head-on merge is our best option. We would all love a 180 degree deflection shot but in our attempts to gain advantage on the other guy and fill our sights with bogey we tend to neglect closure rate, AOA, AOD, and all other important stuff needed to survive the 1st pass if we don't kill the guy.
Again, as I said above, you find yourself in a HO situation only if you want to. Or if you don't know what you're doing or what to do. In fact, talking about neglecting the basics of A2A combat, you talk about yourself, I think... there are a LOT of good pilots in this game and on the BBS those subjects have been discussed lots of times... we do pay attention at them when we fight. Maybe that's because we don't HO and we kill our prey mostly from the rear sector.
Originally posted by VERTEX
In the beginning, all you want is to get a kill, any kill. My first kill was la7 vs la7 HO shot and I won. I was very excited. Then all you want is two kills so you can see your name in lights. Then you want 5 then 10. Then you want to land kills all the time, every sortie if possible. Vulching exites you. Then when that becomes boring you become a cherry picker. Eventually that becomes tiring and you start flying more difficult planes. Now you live for the fight, and love it no matter what the outcome as long as it was a good one.
Yeah, that should be the path... alas, not everyone agree with that or have the b..ls to quit HOing and vulching to go on and become a better pilot.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And if that's your choice in how you play it, then go for it.
Just don't try and connect real combat and real risk with anything we do in here, cause there is no risk and this most definately isn't real:)
Oh Guppy,there are many risks,could spill your beer on keyboard,laughing at CH200 banter.Repetive strain injury to hand and wrist,from all the stick stirring:rofl the list goes on and on.
Sry I just couldn't resist.....:aok
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Well I couldn't agree with you more Gianlupo except my post wasn't about HOW you wind up with a HO, or that a HO has an advantage, or disadvantage, none of that I discussed. My point was after the decisions had been made, after BOTH pilots wound up in the Same area of sky, Both pointed at each other. A HO is simply two AC at the same point, in opposite directions. Maybe it would have helped if I had explained that more. I did not, defend, offend, make allude to, or anything else about how they got into that position so your comments although correct, do not reflect on what I wrote.
Theorotical or not, there is absolutely no proof that a digital gamer has any experience level comparable to that of yesterdays or todays fighter pilot. If there were ANY proof in that pudding flight certificates would be handed out after a check ride in Microsoft Flight Simulator. That does not mean that a fighter pilot will step into the digital world and remain undefeated by a digital gamer but it does mean our experience is NOT that of a trained US fighter jock and never will be...period. Ask any number of the actual fighter jocks playing this game, such as MACE.
I appreciate your post but you misread what I stated....a HO is a head on...right/wrong/indefferent.
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As usual, I wrote too much, and that is detrimental to my own reasoning... anyway, even if your post wasn't about how an HO occur (and, yes, it needed to be explained better), you wrote:
Generally a HO in this game is the result of two pilots, both arriving at a point in the sky and both realize that to turn gives the other a distinct advantage.
and I replied to this point, with which I still don't agree:
In fact, I can't really figure out a situation in which a HO can occur where turning will give your opponent a distinct advantage... it is the exact contrary!
in a HO situation, turning will only be a benefit, because it will put you out of the line of fire of your opponent, it'll give him a much worse target and it'll allow you to take the initiative. The only time in which this can't happen is when the 2 planes are really close and already hitting each other.
As for the experience, of course no proof can be given. What I wanted to say, and many others had already said, it's that, in comparison to a WWII pilot, we have more hours of combat logged and we found ourselves involved in combat situations much more than the average WWII fighter pilot. This means only that we are much used to react in the right way in those situations, because we experienced them and died in them a lot of times, a luxury that a real pilot couldn't afford. In this sense, we are more "experienced".
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
quote:
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The experience level in this game is seriously less than that of fighter pilots who have been trained well by some of the best.
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There are threads in this BBS where this matter has been discussed... they surely had a deeper knowledge of flying and fighting from a theoretical POV, but we have a lot more of hours of both, and, most of all... we don't die, so we can try whatever we want and that gives us more "experience" than they had.
Puhleese! Get serious. No offense but do you actually believe this?
There is almost no cross-over between what we do and what a real fighter pilot does. We don't actually pull 7-8 G's sitting in our comfy chairs. We don't actually roll inverted. We don't have to actually fight our sticks beyond a little spring tension. We don't have to deal with engine management. We don't have to deal with trim unless we want to. Did you actually have to turn your head to look behind you last flight? Do you think a real pilot strapped in saves his views in snap mode? We don't actually face real death.
Because you get to "try whatever you want" makes you more experienced? There are only a finite number of recognized combat manouvers. Do you think they don't train fighter pilots in these? Do you think actual fighter pilots ride the tunnel or the stall buzzer like we do?
"Well I've done hundreds more high yo-yo's than a real pilot"... Woohoo... YOU DA MAN!
My guess is whomever moves to the others environment is going to lose. Put a real pilot in here and he will lose until he gets used to the ridiculous extremes we can push and the ridiculously perilous positions we can put ourselves in. Put you in a real fighter and... well, I wouldn't give you much of a chance. I do however, believe that a real pilot would adapt to our environment faster than you (we) would adapt to his, and that would be the true test of who's more experienced.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
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My guess is whomever moves to the others environment is going to lose. Put a real pilot in here and he will lose until he gets used to the ridiculous extremes we can push and the ridiculously perilous positions we can put ourselves in. ......
I think this is what he meant in his post, in here we have much more knowledge and experiance and would crush a real pilot, because we can push the envolope much more.
To me a HO is those who fire at head to head merges, too many fights end before they begin due to those pulling their trigger in stead of the joystick.
Just for giggles, I'd love to see the stats of kills and deaths for a tour where all shots with less than 5 degres off the the nose in H2H situations were null and void. Can you imagine the crying ??? LOL!! :t
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Originally posted by halcyon
Uh oh....he ho'd someone.
In real combat.
Prepare for the whiners.
Ohhh my god a HOer. He should be brought up on charges of being dishonerable in a fight. The Army Air Corps should have taken the kill away and then they should have made him a cook.
Ut ohhh I hear some Bish whinning starting up....Ohhh that was my wife..oops
Jugman
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Originally posted by truck5co
You dont wanna get ho'd, dont come at me head on, simple as that.
ESU
Agreed
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Originally posted by truck5co
The same guys who whine about ho'ing are the probably the same guys who run home to land their 4 kills just when the goon is gonna drop troops only to let the goon and its troops get killed. Cant have it both ways. Personally I dont believe in Marquis of Queensbury (?) rules in a gunfight, whether its planes, 9mm's at 10 ft, real life or a game. The planes , weapons and ords for the most part are modelled realistically in order to make the game like real life, so why cant we use a real life tactics? Major Dick Bong speciallized in the HO with his 38, just dont see why it cant be used here. I once had a rook cry his eyes out when I ho'd him. I was upping out of a hangar at a base about to be overrun and he's lining up for an easy vulch, I managed to get just enough nose up atitude to put a burst in him b4 he fired. He lit 200 up with sobs. Vulch OK but not a HO? IMHO its all fair in love and war.
ESU all
absolutely!
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HOs are 90 times out of 100 the mark of an incompetent flyer who is terrified of learning to fight. But, if you geniuses defending HOs enjoy wasting 10 minutes flying to a fight just to throw your time away... go for it. You'll always just be an easy kill for the guy one step past HOing.
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Originally posted by Engine
HOs are 90 times out of 100 the mark of an incompetent flyer who is terrified of learning to fight. But, if you geniuses defending HOs enjoy wasting 10 minutes flying to a fight just to throw your time away... go for it. You'll always just be an easy kill for the guy one step past HOing.
As opposed to defending ACM?? DOing stunts and manuevers that cant be replicated in real life? Digital planes that turn and stop on a dime? Why , because ACM is honorable??? WHen was the last time any of you augered to get a goon??? In AW guys did it all the time. Here its supposedly honorable people doing the honorable thing, FOR THEMSELVES! I suggested some guys auger to get goons and I was ridiculed all over the place. Why would we do that was the reply??? I think a lot of you guys need to get a life and stop whining. Why dont we just eliminate HO'ing, vulches, cherry picks, interfering in someone elses dog fight, porking strats, raiding HQ , 262's, 163's, all the other uber planes and just about anything someone has complained about. We'll all fly zekes, the only tank will be T34s, no tigers, no M4s. I also firmly believe a HO is a shot you're presented with. If you dont want me to HO you, turn and give me a six shot, I'm happy either way. If not we'll dance and if I get killed so be it, if you do thats even better.
That being said there are some team players here, guys who will do the teamster thing and lug supplies to bases etc. Because this is a team sport not an individual one. I been ho'd, vulched, picked more times than I care to remember and no one can ever say they heard me whine.
to all, even the non-ho'ers,,,,,, ESU
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I didn't comment on any of that. All I'm saying is 9 times out of 10, if I see you go for the HO, I know you're an incompetent pilot. So go ahead and try it. I'll evade 9 out of 10 times, and kill you.
Do with that what you like.
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what i say is do what you have to because relly if you dont kill him on the first pass when he has better turning ark then you well your dead so relly kill him once you get the chance and relly its kill or be killed but dont say this games i real life because its not its far from that and you all should know that
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That was beautiful. I'm going to tattoo it on my back so when I go to the beach all the pretty girls will weep at the beauty of it.
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OK, I never meant this to be an argument for or against HOing, I just thought the film was cool but now that it's become one I'll chime in.
The question of honor relative to the HO most often centers around the initial merge in a one-on-one. One the fight is on most won't argue with it, although a few still will. Likewise in a furball or a one-on-many most would agree anything goes.
I don't consider myself skill-less and I see the HO as simply another tool in my bag. In many situations it makes very good sense while in others it should be avoided at almost all costs. An example would be if I were flying a 190A8 and met a Spit I'd probably take that HO every time. Why? I have a huge guns advantage, I won't be able to turn with him and I won't be able to climb with him. I may be able to run from him but not if he has an alt advantage. Oh sure, I could scissor or use a rolling scissor or something to try to force an overshoot but that won't work against a good pilot and at that point I'm already in trouble so the HO allows me to dispatch the threat quickly and move on.
On the other hand, If I'm in a P-51B or an FM2 I'll avoid every HO. The 4 .50's on those particular planes, while accurate and deadly, aren't adequate for the risk involved in a HO IMHO. No matter what I'm in I'd never go head on with a BF110-G2 or an IL-2 or another huge cannoned bird.
Likewise energy states make a difference. I'd be more likely to try a HO coming down than going up.
There are many other situations where I think the HO makes sense and many others where I think it's foolhardy. Like I said above, it's another tool in the bag and it's use, like all ACM is highly situational.
My personal success rate HOing is high, probably in the 80-85% range although I only use it once in every 2-3 hours or so of flight-time and only in what I view to be the right situations.
That said I do agree that the guy who merges HO with guns spraying from 1.5K out is a skill-less dweeb.
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I dont get it, you dont consider yourself a skill less dweeb, you will HO, yet in your last sentence you agree that anyone who HOs is a skill less dweeb?? Is it the 1.5K that makes it skill less? I dont consider myself skill less either and I win more HO's then I lose and I was in 100% agreement with just about everything you said till that last statement. Especially the parts about flying specific planes and in specific situations and against a superior plane yada yada. Just threw me with the last part. AGain, what about vulches and picks etc, some sneaky stuff OK, some not, doesnt make any sense to me. How many times have we heard people on 200 complain about a LALA or 51 thats runnin? Dam thats what those planes do , they're fast! Why shouldnt they extend and use their strong points to their advantage. They should turn and fight against a superior turn fiter when they are low and slow just to make the other guy happy? Like I said, too much whining going on, its a game, relax and play and lets all have fun.
ESU
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Yep, it's the 1.5K You know then from a mile away (well, actually 1.5K ;) )
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How does a post about a awsome real life event of a very brave ww2 fighter pilot, get turned into some pointless HO banter???.
U guys need to get OVER the HEAD ON thing, truth is anyone can avoid a HO, and anyone can HO. How about actually keeping this post to what it was ment for.
I dont see anyone here who wrote the RULES OF AIRIAL COMBAT so knowone should be dictating how air combat should be flown.
I die in HO's every day, I scratch it up as my fault for not getting out of the way. Personally i think a aircraft should be flown to its maximum ablilty, and if your packing 4 20 mills, then its a effective tactic to ho.
Im willing to bet u that most people to complain about dying in a HO never turned away and tried to land a few rounds thereself.
Maybe the next reply on here with actually be about something worth reading, like other ww2 engagments.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Puhleese! Get serious. No offense but do you actually believe this?
Yeah, I believe what I tried to explain in the post just above yours. Clearly, my knowledge of the English language is too limited to thoroughly express my thought. And I have no much time to spend on this board. So, never mind, I'll keep my believing, you'll keep yours and we'll be both happy. ;)
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Yeah, I believe what I tried to explain in the post just above yours. Clearly, my knowledge of the English language is too limited to thoroughly express my thought. And I have no much time to spend on this board. So, never mind, I'll keep my believing, you'll keep yours and we'll be both happy. ;)
Oops, didn't see that post where you explained further. I must have been typing mine while you were posting yours and never looked back to see your second post.
Yes, I'd probably have to agree with your more detailed explanation where you limit the definition of experience to learned instictual behavior.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Oops, didn't see that post where you explained further. I must have been typing mine while you were posting yours and never looked back to see your second post.
Timing is everything! :lol
Glad to see that we solved this little argument without the usual struggle typical of this BBS. ;)
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usually when i H-O someone im in a YaK 9U and they are in some plane with 4 20mm, i usually come out victorious, i fire a few rounds then pull up and turn onto their 6 and finish them off.