Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 01:46:55 PM

Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 01:46:55 PM
All around best plane in the game if you would like to kill everything in the sector.

FYI: When you fly the 16 and lose to another pilot it because you made a mistake...

I am at the mercy of the BBS so let the bashing begin.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Bruv119 on June 19, 2007, 01:48:34 PM
How do you find it in slow speed turns against more manouvreable planes FX1?

When i fly it  yes its a superb plane just doesnt seem as smooth in the slow turns as my  9.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 02:04:10 PM
It does very well at low speeds nose up. Thats were skill comes into play with the 16. Yes the 9 is smoother at 80mph but the 16 flown correctly will be almost a even match.

The 9 is a great ride but the 16 with its climb and armament is a better ride in main..

In main i feel that multiple high kd sorties the one objective is to not be on the deck low and slow. I like to be on the deck fast and ready to kill.

225mph to 265mph is the perfect speed for the 16. For the newbs out their without looking at your gauges in the fight the faint sound of the wind is 225mph.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sweet2th on June 19, 2007, 02:37:31 PM
I will stick with my P-38-G Thank You very much

It handles just about everything well, except when parts are falling off it LMAO:rofl

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/902_1182036483_mn38.jpg)



After:

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/902_1182036867_mn38blownup.gif)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Pawz on June 19, 2007, 02:55:42 PM
I will own a spixteen in a p38 G!
Title: Re: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Wolfala on June 19, 2007, 02:56:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
All around best plane in the game if you would like to kill everything in the sector.

FYI: When you fly the 16 and lose to another pilot it because you made a mistake...

I am at the mercy of the BBS so let the bashing begin.



I dunno man. The D3A is the most badass turner we got. Nothing like going into the H2H arena and upping 1 of those and pummeling F4U4s, Spit 8s and 16s and the usual LALA.

They get a headache by the time they die.


Wolf
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Husky01 on June 19, 2007, 02:56:36 PM
I will own your Spit 16 and a 38 G with me D40!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: croduh on June 19, 2007, 02:58:33 PM
Whoever husky owns, i own him and the guys he owned.And the guys that own husky.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SkyRock on June 19, 2007, 03:02:18 PM
<---------------read the Avatar!:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: croduh on June 19, 2007, 03:03:29 PM
You don't own me until you duel me!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: BMathis on June 19, 2007, 03:08:16 PM
Hey Sweet2th, How'd you get that picture in so much detail???
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: JimBeam on June 19, 2007, 03:17:12 PM
Fear the 109 G-14 just as good of a plane 1/2 as dweebie
:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Bruv119 on June 19, 2007, 03:23:08 PM
P38 wouldnt beat the 16 co-alt.

We all know 38 drivers dont do   co-alt!    :aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 03:27:41 PM
Very few 38 drivers could beat a 16 with alt.. I never fear a high 38..

Referring to my spit 16 and not a newb..
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: pluck on June 19, 2007, 03:30:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
P38 wouldnt beat the 16 co-alt.

We all know 38 drivers dont do   co-alt!    :aok


you are right, 80th usuallyl below everyone:)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: NateWolf on June 19, 2007, 03:30:59 PM
I like the Spit16 because it rolls very fast, but last time I checked (I may be wrong) it doesn't carry alot of ammo, which for the new people like myself with poor aim need. :)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 03:35:08 PM
It teaches you to use less ammo and make your shots count.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 19, 2007, 03:37:41 PM
Co-Alt ... Co-E ... a lot of planes will eat the 16's lunch.


Edit ... Thanks SR
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SkyRock on June 19, 2007, 03:45:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Co-Alt ... Co-E ... a lot of planes will each the 16's lunch.

Yup!  but I think you meant "eat"! :aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 19, 2007, 03:48:15 PM
Spit16 is ok, its basically an la7 with better guns.



best plane in the game for not dying and getting loads of kills is the P51D, or maybe the Tempest.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 19, 2007, 03:59:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Spit16 is ok, its basically an la7 with better guns.



best plane in the game for running and getting loads of kills is the P51D, or maybe the Tempest.


Here ... let me help ya out Bat.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 19, 2007, 04:01:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
P38 wouldnt beat the 16 co-alt.

We all know 38 drivers dont do   co-alt!    :aok


Don't know that I've ever met a Spit 16 co-alt.  I'm usually below em :)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 19, 2007, 04:11:48 PM
nice slapshot :D


i geuss i was being overly diplomatic after the multiple pairs of panties that got themselves in a twist over my blunt statements in Lynx's child abuse thread..
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sweet2th on June 19, 2007, 04:21:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bnasty
Hey Sweet2th, How'd you get that picture in so much detail???


2006 Microsoft Digital Photo editor.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sweet2th on June 19, 2007, 04:21:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
It teaches you to use less ammo and make your shots count.


Actually the 109-K does a better job of that IMHO.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: dedalos on June 19, 2007, 04:23:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
How do you find it in slow speed turns against more manouvreable planes FX1?



:D Ask him about high and fast.  :p
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Greebo on June 19, 2007, 04:45:57 PM
I find I can usually reverse and turn inside a Spit 16 when it overshoots my F6F. The clipped wings seem to noticeably increase its turn radius. The Spit I have most trouble with is the 8.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Carwash on June 19, 2007, 04:57:13 PM
16''s great roll rate makes it the best of the spits.  It can't turn with a hurri or zero,  can't outclimb a niki, can't out run a lala, but used properly it may be the best all around plane (non perked)  in the game.

I like it when a pony or lala is chasing me.  Just put a little climb into your extension and you walk off and leave them, assuming they don't have a big e advantage to start with.

Guns package is great, ammo load is weak.

Just have to know it's stregnths and weaknesses.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Platano on June 19, 2007, 06:22:00 PM
I uped a S16 in the MA for the first time last night....

IMO the controls are waaayy to sensitive...Didnt like it.

I shall stick to the ME's.


That is all.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Balsy on June 19, 2007, 07:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Platano
I uped a S16 in the MA for the first time last night....

IMO the controls are waaayy to sensitive...Didnt like it.

I shall stick to the ME's.


That is all.


109k4 is the Spit16s equal if not better.

Balsy
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Squire on June 19, 2007, 08:04:59 PM
Cant outclimb a NIK2? maybe lose the bomb, and try it again. ;)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: sonic23 on June 19, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
I 101% agree with FX1

Spit16 is the best plane in the game and i will own any and all p38 g's in a spixteen.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Atoon on June 19, 2007, 11:16:58 PM
spixqueen is a great plane. for me to POOP ON!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 19, 2007, 11:44:29 PM
LOL
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 19, 2007, 11:48:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by sonic23
I 101% agree with FX1

Spit16 is the best plane in the game and i will own any and all p38 g's in a spixteen.


Gonna have to keep an eye out for Spit 16s I see :)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sweet2th on June 19, 2007, 11:58:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Gonna have to keep an eye out for Spit 16s I see :)



Word
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: WMLute on June 19, 2007, 11:59:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Carwash
can't outclimb a niki


(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/spit16clmb.gif)

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/n1k2clmb.gif)

Not even close.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: hubsonfire on June 20, 2007, 12:00:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Platano
I uped a S16 in the MA for the first time last night....

IMO the controls are waaayy to sensitive...Didnt like it.

I shall stick to the ME's.


That is all.


I think the IX and VIII are a lot more stable planes. XVI seems a bit skittish.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: killnu on June 20, 2007, 12:03:54 AM
spits are the ones with  training wheels on...right?  :confused:

:rolleyes:
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SkyRock on June 20, 2007, 12:13:40 AM
Im not in the mood for spit16's, luckily for all you brethren that would get ownt by a polished up Rock!!!!:aok


Mark
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Platano on June 20, 2007, 12:36:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
spits are the ones with  training wheels on...right?  :confused:

:rolleyes:


Yes Dolfo....

I laugh at the ones that talk about how good they are in spits.:rolleyes:
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: DarkS1ar on June 20, 2007, 01:01:32 AM
I find the Spit 16 more Dweeby then the la7 it needs to be perked:cool:
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Kermit de frog on June 20, 2007, 01:31:41 AM
People who say "wow, you outturned me in a hurri" is no different than for those who say, "wow, you out climbed me in your 109k".

:rolleyes:


BTW,
<------leasing skyrock to lowest bidder.  :)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: BaldEagl on June 20, 2007, 01:41:09 AM
I used to fly Spit XVI's exclusively and I'd say it's the best all around fighter in the game but not the best all-around plane.

It's really got a great balance of speed, manouverability, firepower, climb rate, dive rate, roll rate and acceleration allowing it to perform in any and every style of fighting.  Among those tools there is something there to defeat any opposing aircraft.  Also among those traits there is something that will allow any opposing aircraft to beat the XVI if the XVI pilot's not aware of his opponents strengths.

The only thing that keeps the XVI from being the best overall aircraft is it's lack of ord loadout and that moves it into a pure fighter catagory IMHO.  Due to that the F6F-5 is the best overall plane in the game followed closely by the P-38G but that's just my opinion.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Platano on June 20, 2007, 01:46:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
due to that the F6F-5 is the best overall plane in the game followed closely by the P-38G but that's just my opinion.


:huh


Gimme some Of wat you're smokin...
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2007, 02:03:29 AM
Just goes to show ya, that if we talk about the 38G long enough, we start to make believers of people :)

It's all part of my plan to ruin Aces High!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 02:18:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Platano
Yes Dolfo....

I laugh at the ones that talk about how good they are in spits.:rolleyes:



its ok to be good in a spit.....if....and only if you can fly all the other planes too :t

what you plane dependant moaning 109k4-LA7 with 30mm drivers hate is that even a noob can prawn you in his spit16 because its an amazing plane.


dont you be dissing my spitV beotch!!!11!


 :cry
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: killnu on June 20, 2007, 02:26:27 AM
it is simple...spits are easy to fly...even the real life pilots said so.  They are easy to fly in AH...if you dont believe that, you are in denial.  That is why many people tell the new guys asking what plane to fly to fly a spit of some variant...or la7, so they have option to run and maybe live tad longer.

Nothing wrong with that...nothing wrong that people fly it and love it...but the "look at me im great in my spit" threads are a bit over the top...imho.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: ink on June 20, 2007, 02:37:12 AM
539 hurri killz on spit16
356 spit16 killz on hurr2c


personally i feel the hurricane is much more of a dangerous plane, actually i dont like spits, they feel weak to me
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 02:48:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
it is simple...spits are easy to fly...even the real life pilots said so.  They are easy to fly in AH...if you dont believe that, you are in denial.  That is why many people tell the new guys asking what plane to fly to fly a spit of some variant...or la7, so they have option to run and maybe live tad longer.

Nothing wrong with that...nothing wrong that people fly it and love it...but the "look at me im great in my spit" threads are a bit over the top...imho.



look at me im great in XXX plane threads of any kind are lame.
and you know the La7 is teh suxxor compared to the K4 ;)

i agree though, they are easy to fly as a rule.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: killnu on June 20, 2007, 03:00:00 AM
Quote
and you know the La7 is teh suxxor compared to the K4


as a new guy? i disagree...it is easier to hit with those 3x20mm than it is a 30mm.  Once you take the time and learn to hit with the 30mm...Ill go with K4...usually takes a bit of time to learn that stupid 30mm, or learn the trigger discipline.  once again, my opinion..but you dont hear those who been around for new guys to cut their teeth flying a 109 of any type...its always spit/la7...few nikis and 51s.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Gianlupo on June 20, 2007, 03:07:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I used to fly Spit XVI's exclusively and I'd say it's the best all around fighter in the game but not the best all-around plane.

It's really got a great balance of speed, manouverability, firepower, climb rate, dive rate, roll rate and acceleration allowing it to perform in any and every style of fighting.  


Quoting you just because you say it all, BaldEagl....

What about the Ki84, people???? :furious THAT's the best all around fighter!!!! And it has a greater range than Spit! My plane's better than yours!!11!1!!1111!11
















:p
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 03:23:27 AM
youre right about that, for sure, as a newb the K4 is much tougher to do well in and the majority go for something less taxing.

my point is that when you get experience, the choice of plane matters very little. you will beat spits in all kinds of planes. and when you get to this level, the 109K4 is extremely easy to control the fight vs any other plane in the game. reapeat: only when flown with the respect and experience it requires.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: killnu on June 20, 2007, 03:30:41 AM
agree with that...and this...
Quote
look at me im great in XXX plane threads of any kind are lame.


but one about a 190A8 wouldnt be as bad.:p:D
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 03:35:42 AM
haha!

:aok


Nilsen flies a mean 190A8.


gotta sleep, nite all.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: dedalos on June 20, 2007, 09:31:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Carwash


I like it when a pony or lala is chasing me.  Just put a little climb into your extension and you walk off and leave them, assuming they don't have a big e advantage to start with.


That is just great.  Get in a Spitfire so you can run away from a 51 or a lala.  Do also get in a 51 or lala so you can TnB? :O
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 20, 2007, 10:15:08 AM
Bat you think i can only fly a spit 16?

I would think you know better than that..
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Bucky73 on June 20, 2007, 10:29:04 AM
Why "fly" the spit when the pony is just a click away?:D
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: sonic23 on June 20, 2007, 10:39:17 AM
I think i can hold my own in a 16.  What do you think?
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 10:57:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
Bat you think i can only fly a spit 16?

I would think you know better than that..



where did i say that FX?? I dont think i said that and i definitely don't think it.

i dont care what people fly, I took the wise words of (i think) Hubsonfire, or maybe it was Slapshot, many years ago...


"those of you who are plane dependant are always worrying what the other guy is flying. The rest of us worry about who is flying it."


wise words indeed.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SteveBailey on June 20, 2007, 11:01:16 AM
This turned into a "stroke yourself" thread.  I'm out of here before one of you chest thumping, shaft stroking goobs gets some splatter on me.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Krusty on June 20, 2007, 11:05:50 AM
I disagree...

Doesn't matter how skilled a pilot is, if he's in a low, slow P40b he's not going to be able to nose up at all, but if he's in a low, slow spit16 he can rocket for the moon like there's no tomorrow.

Sure, skill is one thing, but the plane has an inherrent "potential" ability that the "skill" can use. One must still worry about planes with more "potential" more than one must worry about planes with less "potential. If I'm in a Ki-84, and I have 2 planes to worry about, I'm going to regard the spit8 as a larger threat than the typhoon. Doesn't matter if the typhie pilot is better than the spit pilot, because the spit pilot doesn't *have* to be good in the spit8.

Being good in some planes is a requirement, and in some planes is not. That negates the "it's the pilot not the plane" argument, in my opinion.

Back on topic, I believe the spixteen is 10-15mph faster than the Mk.VIII, and climbs just about the same (a few fps less as alt goes up). Roll rate is phenominal and turn may be slightly worse than the Mk.VIII but is still nothing to sneeze at! If you can aim with the guns you can pretty much make it through any fight intact.


P.S. Funny thing I have trouble shooting with Hispanos, because I almost never use them. I seem to miss 90% of my shots with them.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Xasthur on June 20, 2007, 11:07:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
Actually the 109-K does a better job of that IMHO.


True for ammo conservation, but it throws your aim for other gun types.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: tedrbr on June 20, 2007, 11:10:08 AM
FEAR the Spit 16!

but not the dweeb at the controls

If you lose to a Splixteen, it was the (http://www.thesmilies.com/smileyletters/links/349581001182355581.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)  and not the other  (http://www.thesmilies.com/smileyletters/links/198289001182355620.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com).


I tell you, we got two categories of pilots around here. We got your prime pilots that get all the hot planes, and we got your pud-knockers who dream about getting the hot planes. Now what are you two pud-knockers gonna have? Huh? - Pancho Barnes
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Stang on June 20, 2007, 11:15:47 AM
VIII owns the XVI.

However, 190 A8 owns all.

:t
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: swoose on June 20, 2007, 11:27:08 AM
If you want to test your skills try a yak-9u.  Presents a small target to everyone, turns fairly well and climbs ok. It has very limited ammo and I find myself saddled up at 200 yards with no ammo quite often.  Try one you might like it. Oh the torque is opposite of the other plans and your first takeoff will be a surprise if you aren't ready for it.:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on June 20, 2007, 11:41:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoose
Oh the torque is opposite of the other plans and your first takeoff will be a surprise if you aren't ready for it.:aok


Spiral climbs to the right works very well against a lot of planes with Yak 9U.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: whels on June 20, 2007, 11:44:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I disagree...



Back on topic, I believe the spixteen is 10-15mph faster than the Mk.VIII, and climbs just about the same (a few fps less as alt goes up).  


SPIT 16 14 8 9
no wep / wep
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
15k 368/385 398/413 363/380 375/383

10k 357/383 375/405 351/378 353/363

5k 336/363 352/382 330/358 331/341

otd 315/342 329/358 310/337 310/319
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Platano on June 20, 2007, 11:45:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey
This turned into a "stroke yourself" thread.  I'm out of here before one of you chest thumping, shaft stroking goobs gets some splatter on me.


:rofl
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Gianlupo on June 20, 2007, 11:49:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by swoose
Oh the torque is opposite of the other plans and your first takeoff will be a surprise if you aren't ready for it.:aok


That's the thing I hate about it... that and the short range... otherwise, it's a great fighter... got to get used to that prop... :p
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2007, 12:28:17 PM
The truth of the matter is, that it's the pilot that makes the difference.

Generally in a fight, I go for the 16s, N1Ks and La7s first, just cause there are so many.  And I generally don't have trouble knocking them down, unless I run into a guy who knows what to do with it, then I know I'm in trouble.

But that applies to lots of birds,

That being said, I prefer to run into the guys who know what there doing cause even if I die, I get better trying to hang with them.

And it's those knock down drag out, shaking hands afterwards, fights that make the game worth playing:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 12:32:48 PM
oh gupppy! you must be mad...


the real fun of this game is getting a L33t Score Card and flying as realisticly as you can.


what are we to do with you, you're a lost cause!
:(
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: FX1 on June 20, 2007, 12:34:19 PM
I really dont see that many spit 16's in main. I looked at my kill stats and the 16 is always in my top five for most killed but some months you see more nikki's our even f4u.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: killnu on June 20, 2007, 12:44:07 PM
16, la7 and 51 are almost always my top 3 planes killed...in some order.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Makoyouidiot on June 20, 2007, 12:50:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
my point is that when you get experience, the choice of plane matters very little. you will beat spits in all kinds of planes.


Amen to that!

All hail the Warhawk! For with it, I shall pwn your l33t dweeb ride! :)
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Makoyouidiot on June 20, 2007, 12:51:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
The truth of the matter is, that it's the pilot that makes the difference.

Generally in a fight, I go for the 16s, N1Ks and La7s first, just cause there are so many.  And I generally don't have trouble knocking them down, unless I run into a guy who knows what to do with it, then I know I'm in trouble.

But that applies to lots of birds,

That being said, I prefer to run into the guys who know what there doing cause even if I die, I get better trying to hang with them.

And it's those knock down drag out, shaking hands afterwards, fights that make the game worth playing:aok


yes! the ones where you have to take a break afterwards because your hand is sore from holding the joystick.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 20, 2007, 12:58:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I disagree...

Doesn't matter how skilled a pilot is, if he's in a low, slow P40b he's not going to be able to nose up at all, but if he's in a low, slow spit16 he can rocket for the moon like there's no tomorrow.

Sure, skill is one thing, but the plane has an inherrent "potential" ability that the "skill" can use. One must still worry about planes with more "potential" more than one must worry about planes with less "potential. If I'm in a Ki-84, and I have 2 planes to worry about, I'm going to regard the spit8 as a larger threat than the typhoon. Doesn't matter if the typhie pilot is better than the spit pilot, because the spit pilot doesn't *have* to be good in the spit8.


I would guess that you have never flown against or with pilots such as ..

Drex
Leviathn
WildThing
Furball
Fester (when he played consistently)

.. they are proof that it's the pilot and not the plane.

I wish I still had a copy of Drex's pwnage in the JU-88s ... was probably the most skilled flying that I have even seen.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Krusty on June 20, 2007, 01:06:09 PM
I'm not saying that a skilled pilot can't get kills.

I'm saying that "plane X" has "capabilities X" and if the pilots skill is level 0 or 10 they only add to the plane's qualities. Skill isn't going to make a p40b chase down a p51. Skill isn't going to make a hurrmk.1 catch a 109k in a climbing fight.

Please don't make it a "you're just ignorant" type of thread, because that's not the case. I'm not saying the pilot doesn't count -- I'm saying the pilot skill isn't the only reason a person gets kills.

Let's face it, it's like JB's sig file, it's like playing Madden NFL on easy and winning 180-1. Just because you get kills or win fights doesn't mean YOU did it. Just means the playing field was tilted in your favor.


IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me. There's far too many variables in ANY fight to say "it was the pilot" -- everything from E-state, to numbers engaged, to planes involved, to alititudes of planes involved, to ammo type (a single ping on a D-hog might not even damage you, but on a similar-performing C-hog it'll kill instantly). They all play a factor. Just saying "I won I'm so good you're so bad" doesn't describe things properly, for my tastes.

Your mileage may vary.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 20, 2007, 01:42:04 PM
IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me.

Never looked at it from that standpoint ... for me it has aways meant that it doesn't matter what the plane ... it can't do anything without a pilot ... and it's the pilot that uses his planes strengths against the other planes weaknesses to prevail when the "fight" is on.

Superior pilots can take a "disadvantaged/inferior" plane and pit it against the "advantaged/superior" plane, with an average pilot, and hand them their lunch at every engagement.

It has nothing to do with bragging or arrogance ... it's just a fact.

Bottom line ... any plane is just a machine, unable to think on it's own.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Bucky73 on June 20, 2007, 01:46:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35

That being said, I prefer to run into the guys who know what there doing cause even if I die, I get better trying to hang with them.

And it's those knock down drag out, shaking hands afterwards, fights that make the game worth playing:aok



Couldn't have said it better myself...........well maybe, but i'm not gonna try:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SkyRock on June 20, 2007, 01:57:13 PM
My top 4 types of planes killed every tour are spit16's, la7's, nik's, and ponies!  Mostly they get ownt by me trusty old 1-hog!:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: ink on June 20, 2007, 02:14:06 PM
IMHO it is the pilot that matters,

 BUT being a good pilot means that you know all the planes, strengths and weakness.

its also way more than that,  i was watching a show on ww2 fighter pilots

and the one they were interviewing{no clue of his name} was speaking about dogfighting,

i don't remember the words exactly but basically he said,

"... i don't think about what to do if a bogey does this or that,  what i do think about is where that bogey is  going to be in 2 or 3 minutes?  and how can i place my guns on him there at that moment in time..."

ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot


plus skyrock showing me how to set up my stick properly was a HUGE help


skyrock
and all the other sticks who make this game great.
:aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2007, 02:24:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty



IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me. There's far too many variables in ANY fight to say "it was the pilot" -- everything from E-state, to numbers engaged, to planes involved, to alititudes of planes involved, to ammo type (a single ping on a D-hog might not even damage you, but on a similar-performing C-hog it'll kill instantly). They all play a factor. Just saying "I won I'm so good you're so bad" doesn't describe things properly, for my tastes.

Your mileage may vary.


I don't think it's arrogance Krusty.  I think it's that there are guys who can do things with certain planes that the rest of us can't.

I fly a midwar bird, the 38G almost all the time, with the J thrown in now on SAPP nites on occasion.  When I'm chugging around down low in the G, I don't see a Spit 16 and think I'm going to lose because it's a 16.  I know I can beat the 16 unless it's flown by a good stick.  Then I'm gonna die no matter what I do because the performance difference will give them an edge to go with their skill.

There are FM2 drivers out there who I don't want to mix it up with most times though too, because I know they can do things in it that I can't keep up with.

So it's still the pilot that makes the difference to me.  To a good stick in a superior performing bird, I'm gonna be lunch.

With an average MA stick in a superior plane, I feel confidant I can still win despite the lesser performance ability of my plane.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Gianlupo on June 20, 2007, 02:25:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ink
ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot


You surely are! Anticipation is one of the key of A2A combat. :aok
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sweet2th on June 20, 2007, 07:51:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur
True for ammo conservation, but it throws your aim for other gun types.


It also teaches the new pilot to wait until 200 or less away before firing, which is where any weapons are deadly---POINT BLANK.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SkyRock on June 20, 2007, 08:30:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ink
IMHO it is the pilot that matters,

 BUT being a good pilot means that you know all the planes, strengths and weakness.

its also way more than that,  i was watching a show on ww2 fighter pilots

and the one they were interviewing{no clue of his name} was speaking about dogfighting,

i don't remember the words exactly but basically he said,

"... i don't think about what to do if a bogey does this or that,  what i do think about is where that bogey is  going to be in 2 or 3 minutes?  and how can i place my guns on him there at that moment in time..."

ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot


plus skyrock showing me how to set up my stick properly was a HUGE help


skyrock
and all the other sticks who make this game great.
:aok

thanks, Ink, and it all started with a little ego into the DA, huh.  Apparently you are getting much better, I saw you battling 5 bogies for more than 4 or 5 minutes yesterday!   and keep it up!

Mark
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: bj229r on June 20, 2007, 08:35:23 PM
Hmmm..spit, SUCH a tough plane.... lets see, do I yank stick HALFway back, or ALL the way back....sooo many decisions to make
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: weazely on June 20, 2007, 08:46:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
<---------------read the Avatar!:aok


<--- read my avatar:aok

:lol :D :lol :D
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sloehand on June 20, 2007, 09:06:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Carwash
can't outclimb a niki,
 


Climb rates compared with WEP on at altitudes,

Alt                   Niki             Spit16

Sea Level       4000           4700
5K                  3900           4700
10K                3000           4150
15K                2600           4150
20K                2200           3700
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 20, 2007, 09:21:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot


... for me it has aways meant that it doesn't matter what the plane ... it can't do anything without a pilot ... and it's the pilot that uses his planes strengths against the other planes weaknesses to prevail when the "fight" is on.

Superior pilots can take a "disadvantaged/inferior" plane and pit it against the "advantaged/superior" plane, with an average pilot, and hand them their lunch at every engagement.

It has nothing to do with bragging or arrogance ... it's just a fact.

Bottom line ... any plane is just a machine, unable to think on it's own.



totaly agree with this.


the natural progression as one becomes better at anything is to challenge yourself in order to get better. if you reach a certain level that you get confortable with, chances are there is something more you could be doing to move above that level of familiarity, and on to something much harder to understand...at first.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Sloehand on June 20, 2007, 09:34:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I used to fly Spit XVI's exclusively and I'd say it's the best all around fighter in the game but not the best all-around plane.

It's really got a great balance of speed, manouverability, firepower, climb rate, dive rate, roll rate and acceleration allowing it to perform in any and every style of fighting.  Among those tools there is something there to defeat any opposing aircraft.  Also among those traits there is something that will allow any opposing aircraft to beat the XVI if the XVI pilot's not aware of his opponents strengths.

The only thing that keeps the XVI from being the best overall aircraft is it's lack of ord loadout and that moves it into a pure fighter catagory IMHO.  Due to that the F6F-5 is the best overall plane in the game followed closely by the P-38G but that's just my opinion.


I think the Niki is the best overall, all-mission fighter.  This doesn't require it excells in every, or any, specific category, it must just be all-round efficient and effective more situations.  In most flight characteristics it is average to a bit above average.  You're not going to chase down many planes, or out climb a few, but otherwise it can hold it's own when flown properly.  

It's great advantage is it's versitility for many types of missions - Base CAPs, Air Superiority, Long Distance NOE Mission Escort, Base Defense, Air-2-Ground Attack including anti-GV, Base de-acking/porking, Town Attack, Medium Alt Bomber Escort.

Aside from pure fighter characteristics the Niki-

- carries enough fuel, at a good burn rate, and a drop tank for long endurance missions.

- carries 4x 20mm cannons as opposed to guns with just about the third largest ammo load out.  Not the best 20mm in the game, but thoroughly effective for plane kills, buff kills, ground kills, etc.

- carries 2x 250kg bombs, (eqiv. 550 lbs.) for use against buildings, ord, barracks, radar, etc. and can take out any GV.  This is in ADDITION to the extra drop tank.

- has just about the best oil-loss endurance I've seen after a hit to the engine.

The only mission where it is limited is the very high alt intercept/escort.  Up to nearly 20K it's fine, but definitely not above that.

If I don't know exactly what to expect, or there is no single mission requirement that outweighs all others and a better plane is needed, (i.e. highest speed to reach fight quickly), then the Niki is what I'll take.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SgtPappy on June 20, 2007, 10:30:37 PM
Hey, all! good to see you all again.

I should be studying for exams but what the heck...

I find that the Mk.XVI's flat, turning radius is a little overmodelled.

Not sure, but I'd like to know. The Mk.XVI was an LF.IX with a Packard-built Merlin 66 dubbed the Merlin 266. Otherwise, the two aircraft were generally the same. In-game, our Mk.XVI has the 'E'-type wing - ea/ loaded with 20mm cannon (120 rpg; 135 in real life) and a fifty cal (250 rpg).

From what I've heard the 'E'-type wing was heavier than the 'C'-type, universal wing of the in-game Mk.IX. Though our Mk.IX is a Merlin 61-equipped plane, that version was lighter than the LF.IX with the 66.

Here are my weight tests:

Mk.XVI
full ammo/full fuel - 7241 lbs.
light (no fuel, ammo) - 6329 lbs.

Mk.IX
full ammo/fuel - 7303 lbs.
light (no fuel, ammo) - 6455 lbs.

With less wing area and similar weights, it should really turn worse than the IX at most speeds. Also, it should be heavier than the IX and therefore turn yet even worse.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 21, 2007, 09:11:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sloehand
I think the Niki is the best overall, all-mission fighter.  This doesn't require it excells in every, or any, specific category, it must just be all-round efficient and effective more situations.  In most flight characteristics it is average to a bit above average.  You're not going to chase down many planes, or out climb a few, but otherwise it can hold it's own when flown properly.  

It's great advantage is it's versitility for many types of missions - Base CAPs, Air Superiority, Long Distance NOE Mission Escort, Base Defense, Air-2-Ground Attack including anti-GV, Base de-acking/porking, Town Attack, Medium Alt Bomber Escort.

Aside from pure fighter characteristics the Niki-

- carries enough fuel, at a good burn rate, and a drop tank for long endurance missions.

- carries 4x 20mm cannons as opposed to guns with just about the third largest ammo load out.  Not the best 20mm in the game, but thoroughly effective for plane kills, buff kills, ground kills, etc.

- carries 2x 250kg bombs, (eqiv. 550 lbs.) for use against buildings, ord, barracks, radar, etc. and can take out any GV.  This is in ADDITION to the extra drop tank.

- has just about the best oil-loss endurance I've seen after a hit to the engine.

The only mission where it is limited is the very high alt intercept/escort.  Up to nearly 20K it's fine, but definitely not above that.

If I don't know exactly what to expect, or there is no single mission requirement that outweighs all others and a better plane is needed, (i.e. highest speed to reach fight quickly), then the Niki is what I'll take.


The F6F does all that and more ... the only thing is the cannons vs .50 cals ... but the .50 cal ammo load on an F6F is substantial enough to score many kills and from long distance where the N1K needs to get closer.

Don't get me wrong, the N1K is a very versatile airplane, but it doesn't quite match up to the F6F's versatility.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 21, 2007, 04:41:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SgtPappy
Hey, all! good to see you all again.

I should be studying for exams but what the heck...

I find that the Mk.XVI's flat, turning radius is a little overmodelled.

Not sure, but I'd like to know. The Mk.XVI was an LF.IX with a Packard-built Merlin 66 dubbed the Merlin 266. Otherwise, the two aircraft were generally the same. In-game, our Mk.XVI has the 'E'-type wing - ea/ loaded with 20mm cannon (120 rpg; 135 in real life) and a fifty cal (250 rpg).

From what I've heard the 'E'-type wing was heavier than the 'C'-type, universal wing of the in-game Mk.IX. Though our Mk.IX is a Merlin 61-equipped plane, that version was lighter than the LF.IX with the 66.

Here are my weight tests:

Mk.XVI
full ammo/full fuel - 7241 lbs.
light (no fuel, ammo) - 6329 lbs.

Mk.IX
full ammo/fuel - 7303 lbs.
light (no fuel, ammo) - 6455 lbs.

With less wing area and similar weights, it should really turn worse than the IX at most speeds. Also, it should be heavier than the IX and therefore turn yet even worse.


The Spitfire LFIXe and XVIe were the same bird except for the engine, either the Rolls Royce Merlin 66 for the IXe or the Packard Merlin 266 for the XVIe.

The boost available for the XVI in the game is higher then that available for the earlier FIX we have I believe.

I also believe that flown by equal caliber pilots, the VIII will out turn the XVI due to the extra wing area.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: 2bighorn on June 22, 2007, 11:17:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
I also believe that flown by equal caliber pilots, the VIII will out turn the XVI due to the extra wing area.
In AH spit VIII airframe weighs 290lb more than airframe of mark XVI.
At 50% fuel load the weight difference increases to 428lb due to larger fuel tanks, which translates (roughly) to 6% difference in weight and offsets the difference in wing area/wing loading.

That said, lighter aircraft with the same controls usually respond faster, coupled with the better roll rate, IMO advantage goes to mark XVI.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: dedalos on June 22, 2007, 11:29:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
In AH spit VIII airframe weighs 290lb more than airframe of mark XVI.
At 50% fuel load the weight difference increases to 428lb due to larger fuel tanks, which translates (roughly) to 6% difference in weight and offsets the difference in wing area/wing loading.

That said, lighter aircraft with the same controls usually respond faster, coupled with the better roll rate, IMO advantage goes to mark XVI.


Maybe, but with your reflexes, the Lanc will kick your . . . . :O
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: 2bighorn on June 22, 2007, 11:34:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Maybe, but with your reflexes, the Lanc will kick your . . . . :O

:furious

I gave up on Lancs anyways. Thanks to HTC, I've got windmills to shoot at...
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: dedalos on June 22, 2007, 11:53:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
:furious

I gave up on Lancs anyways. Thanks to HTC, I've got windmills to shoot at...


Hmmmm, isn't there a story about a guy fighting windmillzzzzs? :rofl
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: 2bighorn on June 22, 2007, 11:56:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Hmmmm, isn't there a story about a guy fighting windmillzzzzs? :rofl
LoL, yeah, and he's about my age too :rofl
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: toonces3 on June 22, 2007, 12:34:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Hmmm..spit, SUCH a tough plane.... lets see, do I yank stick HALFway back, or ALL the way back....sooo many decisions to make



HAHAHA!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SgtPappy on June 22, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
The Spitfire LFIXe and XVIe were the same bird except for the engine, either the Rolls Royce Merlin 66 for the IXe or the Packard Merlin 266 for the XVIe.

The boost available for the XVI in the game is higher then that available for the earlier FIX we have I believe.

I also believe that flown by equal caliber pilots, the VIII will out turn the XVI due to the extra wing area.


That's right. It's the 'E' type wing that's different in addition to the + 18 lb. boost Merlin 266 of the XVI compared to the +16 lb. boost of the Merlin 61 of the in-game IX. The IX however, should be lighter, and with that extra wing area should turn better in comparison the XVI than it currently does. Because of this lightweight Mk. XVI, we got it outturning other planes it should not be outturning.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 22, 2007, 02:55:46 PM
I took the Mk16 up in the MA the other day.

Its extremely easy to BnZ and get easy kills by basically flying like a score dweeb.

On the other hand, as a furballer, its totaly rubbish compared to the Mk5/8/9.



i think the dweebs are the ones who fly it like a P51, only from advantge and only when they know they cant be shot.
As a furballing and turn fighting craft, it really is just another spit.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SlapShot on June 22, 2007, 03:04:30 PM
On the other hand, as a furballer, its totaly rubbish compared to the Mk5/8/9.

Like I said before ... in a straight up fight (Co-alt / Co-E) ... the Spit V will eat the 16's lunch all day long.

:D
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: B@tfinkV on June 22, 2007, 03:07:19 PM
but of course slap,  spit5 is the best turn fighter in the game!

EVAR!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: 2bighorn on June 22, 2007, 03:08:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SgtPappy
compared to the +16 lb. boost of the Merlin 61 of the in-game IX.
I've thought Aces High mark IX had only 15lb of boost. When they did change it to 16lb?
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Gianlupo on June 22, 2007, 03:27:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Hmmmm, isn't there a story about a guy fighting windmillzzzzs? :rofl


:lol Great one!
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: Squire on June 23, 2007, 09:43:02 AM
The weights are correct. A Spitfire XVIe with tips removed is 7241 lbs loaded compared to a Spitfire F. IXc at 7303 lbs loaded.

The Merlin 61 is a +15 lb engine. 1560 hp at max wep.

The Merlin 266 is +18 lb engine. 1720 hp at max wep.

Wing areas are 242 sq ft (IX) to 231 sq ft (XVI clipped).

So the XVI has a wing loading of 31.35 ft/lbs and the Spit IX has a wing loading of 30.18 ft/lbs.

Very slight advantage to the IX (around 3 percent) in pure wing loading only.  

...But the IX would only out turn a XVI clipped if they had the same engine, which they dont. The XVI is faster, has less drag, and climbs better as a result of its better power-weight ratio. What made the VIII and XVI what they were the more powerfull 266/66 engines, optimised for low-med alt flying.

Just to compare, a Spitfire XVIe with a full span wing weighs 7450 lbs loaded and a wing of 242 sq ft, giving it a wing loading of 30.79 ft/lbs, but with the Merlin 66, it also should out turn a IX, or a XVI clipped (just by a very small bit).

Also, the clipped tips on the XVI dont have much of a detriment at sea level alt, where almost all MA fighting is done.

The Spitfire VIII is a heavier bird than either at 7808 lbs (it has more fuel), but is close to performance, because it has full span wings and a Merlin 66.

So in a arena matchup, mutch will depend on the fuel states of the IX, XVI or VIII as far as a sustained turn contest, and relative energy states at the star of the fight, and of course, pilot skill. Anecdotal comments from players will be widely different, because of the many variables in those fights: weight, energy,  pilot skill, position, ect.
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: jaxxo on June 23, 2007, 09:19:45 PM
< head explodes...shut it and get in a plane
Title: Fear the Spit 16!
Post by: SgtPappy on June 23, 2007, 10:39:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
I've thought Aces High mark IX had only 15lb of boost. When they did change it to 16lb?


my mistake, I meant 15.