Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Shifty on June 19, 2007, 05:02:00 PM
-
I'm all for toolsheders bombing their way to glory. Yet I'll never understand why they will knock out the FH's where the Furballers are happily minding their own business.
One solution would be to code the game where there is no Killshooter for buffs. If a toolsheder showed up to drop FH's at field just to kill the furball,
everybody could clobber them.
That would keep Toolsheders honestly on track with winning the war that's their bread and butter. Plus give all the furballers a better chance at enjoying their furball, which is their bread and butter.
If this idea has been brought up before, my apologies.
:)
-
Lol that should solve the problem and I can't see anyone complaining...
-
I like the cut of your jib!
-
Now this is a fantastic idea!
-
So as a buff pilot on my way to kill the FH's at the location of the furball, I can shoot down friendly planes as well as enemy planes that try to stop me????
Sounds good as long as I get credit for ALL the kills I rack up:aok
-
Originally posted by Hornet33
So as a buff pilot on my way to kill the FH's at the location of the furball, I can shoot down friendly planes as well as enemy planes that try to stop me????
Sounds good as long as I get credit for ALL the kills I rack up:aok
Sounds fair to me. Now if some smart johnny of a buff pilot decides to start shooting friendlys for the fun of it......... The vultchfest he had to endure his next takeoff would be his problem.;)
-
Originally posted by Shifty
......... The vultchfest he had to endure his next takeoff would be his problem.;)
:rofl
-
:lol
-
Originally posted by Shifty
Sounds fair to me. Now if some smart johnny of a buff pilot decides to start shooting friendlys for the fun of it......... The vultchfest he had to endure his next takeoff would be his problem.;)
Cool...then I'm all for it then. I tend to launch buffs from the rear areas and climb out to 20K or so (kinda like they did it for real) so I wouldn't worry too much about some friendly furballer coming to look for me at takeoff. I'd be to far away from the furball to be of any interest to them. Of course I'm one of those rare guys that doesn't mind flying for a couple of hours on one mission, but that's just me.
-
I'm all for furballers furballing their way to glory.... Yet I'll never understand why they will knock out ordinace where the toolsheders are happily minding their own business.
If this is an idea brought up before, my appologies.
999000
-
Originally posted by 999000
I'm all for furballers furballing their way to glory.... Yet I'll never understand why they will knock out ordinace where the toolsheders are happily minding their own business.
If this is an idea brought up before, my appologies.
999000
If they do that, they're not furballers. They're baby shedders who havent graduated to the BIG AIRPWAIN yet.:p
-
Shifty Hope things are going well 999000
-
He's doing really well my friend, he just came off 30 days convelescent leave. He's now back at Ft Sam working on some new legs.
Thank you sir :)
-
Very good idea, I wish this was brought when toolshedding became a problem. :aok
-
Here's something I posted in another thread:
When I first started here, and for a long time after, I used to go fly a buff out and take (or at least try to take) the hangers out at a field that was at one end of a "good fight". It wasn't to piss anyone off. I thought I was doing the right thing. If the fight was stalled between two bases and through bombing the enemy base our country could move forward then I had, in my mind, positively influenced the direction of the fight.
Even now it's sometimes hard to distinguish between a furball and a stalemate when flying over at altitude.
For the most part, I doubt most bomber pilots are trying to piss you off (although some may be), rather I think they consider themselves contributing to the cause.
If the intent isn't to work toward capture of an enemy base then bombers should be eliminated from the game for fear that you're ruining some fighter dudes fun.
Even if the base is taken the furball will redevelop in another location.
-
i thought this type of thread was long dead...
*grabs popcorn*
-
Great concept but my guess is, it would be hard to COAD.
-
Originally posted by BaldEagl
If the intent isn't to work toward capture of an enemy base then bombers should be eliminated from the game for fear that you're ruining some fighter dudes fun.
Even if the base is taken the furball will redevelop in another location.
Eagle you may be taking the thread too serious. The intent is what each individual makes of it. Youre right a furball will develop somewhere else, in the same light, theres other targets available not just the one where people are furballing.
You can tell a furball base from a base under attack. If you see a big fight between two bases, and nobodys pushing into the enemy base to strafe down ack and hangers. It's been there a while and all the planes stay pretty much between the bases you can bet it's a furball. I'm not knocking you bomber guys that are out there fighting the war, give em hell!
-
Did you all agree to just dogfight in that area over 200? If you all agreed, on both sides, not to bring ord, then you have a basis for an argument. If you all just met up there, them on their way to take the base and you upping to defend it, then you don't have a true furball. Why is it not a furball, you ask? Because it's what we call a fight. Not all of us agreed to a furball. Some of us are there to facilitate capture. We can't do that if you keep upping, hence the blasting of the hangars.
Don't assume just because you feel like furballing, that everyone else is there for the same thing. Stop assuming it's all about you. You're not the General. Stop thinking you have the right to tell anyone how to play. You're not special. We're not here for your amusement. We're not here for your score. We're here for ourselves, the GVers, the cherry pickers, the toolshedders, the landgrabbers and even those who do a little of everything. We all play in the main. There are two arenas especially for the furballers only crowd, stop :cry and go play in them.
To those who would suggest eliminating/limiting buffs, them being what brought me to and keeps me playing this game, let me put this in the nicest way possible,
" :mad: ".
JimmyZ, :t Buff Driver
-
Originally posted by Shifty
Eagle you may be taking the thread too serious. The intent is what each individual makes of it. Youre right a furball will develop somewhere else, in the same light, theres other targets available not just the one where people are furballing.
No, I like to furball myself sometimes. I was just pointing out that those buff guys, for the most part, probably don't realize they are ruining someone elses fun. In fact they probably think they are helping like I used to.
-
I think it's more aimed at the guys like jimmy than your average AHer who's just along for the fun.
-
Originally posted by Shifty
Eagle you may be taking the thread too serious. The intent is what each individual makes of it. Youre right a furball will develop somewhere else, in the same light, theres other targets available not just the one where people are furballing.
You can tell a furball base from a base under attack. If you see a big fight between two bases, and nobodys pushing into the enemy base to strafe down ack and hangers. It's been there a while and all the planes stay pretty much between the bases you can bet it's a furball. I'm not knocking you bomber guys that are out there fighting the war, give em hell!
One side may be indeed be having fun "furballing". What you don't realize, is that over on our country channel, which you're not privy to, 15 people are yelling and screaming for the last building to get knocked down, the goons' running low on fuel and the heavies are getting blasted to bits by the other side while trying to get to the city to effect the capture because nobody on our side is covering them anymore because they're returning to base to land their 2 kills in an LA so they can get their attaboys. Which goes back to my argument, that not everyone is playing the game exactly the same way, for the same end results.
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think it's more aimed at the guys like jimmy than your average AHer who's just along for the fun.
And how the hell do you know how i fly DVB? Don't ever remember seeing your name in game? Seen your name on here quite often, though. Almost every thread mentioning buffs. You want 'em out of the game, we get it.
Heres a thought though. Seeing a troublesome pattern here on this board that i saw once before. Don't know if you or any of your squad are in any way affiliated with the WBs BK DVBs. If they are, ask them why most of the dedicated buff squads left there en masse and either quit flight sims altogether or came here. You might begin to understand why my last sentence was less than nice.
-
deja vue
-
The tools to stop bombers have always existed, you just have to choose to use them.
-
You don't know who Hub is? :rofl
You give us the middle finger and then get upset over what Hub said...how lame can you be.
-
Originally posted by Booz
The tools to stop bombers have always existed, you just have to choose to use them.
exactly....
shoot the buffs down and theres no problem
instead whine here and hope something is done about it...
-
It is impossible to get to 30K in time to shoot buffs down once you see them on radar. So this BS about us not going after the buffs is just that...BS. We need 163s at every base to gain alt in time.
-
Most buffs don't fly at 30k Xargos as you very well know.
The majority nowdays don't even climb to 10k. A few smart ones will grab to 15k if they headed into well populated country.
So if you stay up around 8 - 10k and cruise for buffs, they are ussually not that hard to find. Granted its not as exciting as being 3rd man back in a 7 man conga line chasing that lone P51. But it has its own rewards.
The vast majority of bomber pilots are not griefers, they are just trying to have some fun while doing their bit for the war effort. But these accusations have been flying around so much for the last 2 years that I never hit a target at a enemy field anymore. I may hit his city, or smack a strat object. But I'm tired of getting yelled at just because I felt like a bomber sortie and someone wanted (insert field target) up after the capture. EXCUSE ME, pardon me for living even.
Bombers may not have won the war, but they were a hugely significant part of it. Yet the AH community for the most part has been treating bombers like second rate citizens for the last couple years. Maybe its time for the bombers to shut down all the furballs until it changes.
Stick that in your pipe & smoke it!
-
I think the best thing to do is have three basses near each other, one for each country, that have indestructible fighter hangers and can't be captured. They would also need indestructible ack to prevent vultures.
P.S. This is Aces High not Bomber Command. I pay to furball, not to protect basses from those who want to ruin other peoples fun.
-
Originally posted by JimmyZ
Did you all agree to just dogfight in that area over 200? If you all agreed, on both sides, not to bring ord, then you have a basis for an argument. If you all just met up there, them on their way to take the base and you upping to defend it, then you don't have a true furball. Why is it not a furball, you ask? Because it's what we call a fight. Not all of us agreed to a furball. Some of us are there to facilitate capture. We can't do that if you keep upping, hence the blasting of the hangars.
Don't assume just because you feel like furballing, that everyone else is there for the same thing. Stop assuming it's all about you. You're not the General. Stop thinking you have the right to tell anyone how to play. You're not special. We're not here for your amusement. We're not here for your score. We're here for ourselves, the GVers, the cherry pickers, the toolshedders, the landgrabbers and even those who do a little of everything. We all play in the main. There are two arenas especially for the furballers only crowd, stop :cry and go play in them.
To those who would suggest eliminating/limiting buffs, them being what brought me to and keeps me playing this game, let me put this in the nicest way possible,
" :mad: ".
JimmyZ, :t Buff Driver
Nobody suggested eliminating Buffs. So take the two fingers you got up and use them to open the pill bottle. You're obviously overdue for your meds. I hear they want to replace Rosie O'Donnell on The View. You might send them your post from this thread. You'd be a shoe in. :lol
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Bombers may not have won the war, but they were a hugely significant part of it. Yet the AH community for the most part has been treating bombers like second rate citizens for the last couple years.
Amen to that.
-
Best solution to the problem is to shoot the buffs down. If ya can't do that then the defenders deserve to lose their FH's.
Requires no coding at all.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Best solution to the problem is to shoot the buffs down. If ya can't do that then the defenders deserve to lose their FH's.
Requires no coding at all.
Then bombers need a special dot on the radar screen so we can figure out which cons to go after first.
-
Originally posted by Xargos
Then bombers need a special dot on the radar screen so we can figure out which cons to go after first.
Poor "dots" :D
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Poor "dots" :D
:D Hows it going Nilsen, hope it's going well.
-
Originally posted by Xargos
:D Hows it going Nilsen, hope it's going well.
Im doing great thx.. Plucking bombers and and fighters out of the cartoon air as often as i can. Every now and then some rook or bish gets lucky and feed me some bullets, but thats so rare these days that i almost welcome it ;)
And yourself X ?
-
I'm doing well. :D I always look to see if 999000 is on before going after bombers, he's the only Bomber pilot I really fear.
-
Well... NKL5 can be rather deadly when he buzzes around up high in his Lanc.
He has gotten lucky with me :D
-
An even better idea:
Gice us a .ExplodeBuff command. If inough people vote your buffs blow up.
Muahahahahahaha :rofl
-
Toolsheders vs Furballers a solution
The solution has been done before, you just have to look to what AW did. They made a "Fightertown" arena just for the Furballers and it worked. An FT in the main MA's never worked. But a FT arena did, If you only had a few minutes to play it was a great place to look for a fight.
The Furballers set-up their little rules about 1 on 1's,, HO's etc., etc. All was good with the world, you had FT for furballing and the MA's to play war.
There was one downside to the FT arena.... The FT Arena backfired on the Furballers. For all their posting in the Aw forums it turned out that "furballers" was very few in numbers. And when they started B...ing about toolsheders killing a good furball in the MA, it was pointed out that they can go play in FT if they don't like it.
For the most part I do not remember lots of toolsheder vs furballers food fights in AW, other than the one time they tried to make a "FT island" in the Big Pac arena. And that went away once FT island went away.
Cavalry
-
Originally posted by CAV
The solution has been done before, you just have to look to what AW did. They made a "Fightertown" arena just for the Furballers and it worked. An FT in the main MA's never worked. But a FT arena did, If you only had a few minutes to play it was a great place to look for a fight.
The Furballers set-up their little rules about 1 on 1's,, HO's etc., etc. All was good with the world, you had FT for furballing and the MA's to play war.
There was one downside to the FT arena.... The FT Arena backfired on the Furballers. For all their posting in the Aw forums it turned out that "furballers" was very few in numbers. And when they started B...ing about toolsheders killing a good furball in the MA, it was pointed out that they can go play in FT if they don't like it.
For the most part I do not remember lots of toolsheder vs furballers food fights in AW, other than the one time they tried to make a "FT island" in the Big Pac arena. And that went away once FT island went away.
Cavalry
I agree, we need the old DA back ;) Sometimes I log in with 20 minutes of play time. I hate spending it heading to a vulched field or chasing some guy in p47 that droped his load on an ack gun and ran home.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
The vast majority of bomber pilots are not griefers, they are just trying to have some fun while doing their bit for the war effort. But these accusations have been flying around so much for the last 2 years that I never hit a target at a enemy field anymore. I may hit his city, or smack a strat object. But I'm tired of getting yelled at just because I felt like a bomber sortie and someone wanted (insert field target) up after the capture. EXCUSE ME, pardon me for living even.
Agreed but, What we see in reality is numnutzes killing all the fighter hangers while leaving the VH up and no attempt to de-ack, the capture fails for obvious reasons. Even if they do drop the vh and capture the base it is now indefensible unless you are going to fly cover from an adjacent base. I see little of this and what happens? The base get recaptured by the other side.
I have no problems with the win-the-war crowd. A newly captured base is a good place to find fights. I will even assist in a capture but if I see it run by the numnutzes will go elsewhere.
What I have seen is calls to stop the furball on Country channel and seen the bomber boys come in and do just that. Most bomber pilots are not griefers but there are enough of them to be a problem.
-
Coming soon, the 3rd Reich of superior organized toolsheders, will castrate all the inferior punks hipies species of furballers dump them in concentration camps and send Michael jackson to babysitt them
-
Go back to the early system of strat and capture.
Back when things were relatively simple, both bombers and fighters had important roles to play. Captures were do-able by small groups and a small group could re-capture in short order.
It made for lots of fun for everyone.
The more BS we've added the more we've divided the player group.
Those of you that were here probably remember how fast and furious the fighting was in the Beta. We need to get back to that.
IMO.
-
This is why I fly the Yak9-T. I can furball, boom & zoom, fight anything 1 vs 1 and have a reasonable chance with appropriate tactics, and most pertinent to this thread - take out an entire buff formation with one pass (if I'm lucky).
My best K/D ratio was in a Yak9-T (primarily)
Magoo
-
Originally posted by Toad
Go back to the early system of strat and capture.
Back when things were relatively simple, both bombers and fighters had important roles to play. Captures were do-able by small groups and a small group could re-capture in short order.
It made for lots of fun for everyone.
The more BS we've added the more we've divided the player group.
Those of you that were here probably remember how fast and furious the fighting was in the Beta. We need to get back to that.
IMO.
I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that would bring back action and fighting...
:noid
-
Seriously if there is a good furball going on between two base with no objective that I can tell... I simply drop a line of eggs on the runway.
999000
-
I personally have never dropped hangers to kill a furball..
However, what was going on in the little FT yesterday at A55 was not a furball, even though this was a "fighter town" (LMAO)
The Rooks and Knights came in and capped the field and spent a considerable amount of time BnZing , vulching and killing everything under 1000 feet 5 on 1.
This does not a furball make..This is a cap pure and simple..
So yes I did up buffs and dropped 2 of 3 knight hangers at the nearby field to try and knock them down so bish could get in the air.. Unfortunately I did not get them all..
And before you say up from another field and come in with alt.. been there done that... I was an army of 1... and still ended up getting gang-banged by 5-6 cons who felt the need to be at 15k over the capped base..( of course maybe they were just waiting on their turn to come down after the other got their fill of kills).
So call me a greifer for dropping those hangers??? LMAO... that is not taking into account all the "grief" being forced upon those who were getting slaughtered...
Did it yesterday and will do it again when the situation warrants it.
Make the hangers indestructable... Not in favor of that. ( 10-15K Bases YES!!!)
(Edit: BTW I love to furball, just have a natural dislike for getting vulched, gangbanged, horded, picked and basically slapped around with no chance to really fight back)..
-
Originally posted by Toad
Go back to the early system of strat and capture.
Back when things were relatively simple, both bombers and fighters had important roles to play. Captures were do-able by small groups and a small group could re-capture in short order.
It made for lots of fun for everyone.
The more BS we've added the more we've divided the player group.
Those of you that were here probably remember how fast and furious the fighting was in the Beta. We need to get back to that.
IMO.
Toad. I agree as well. In fact, my brother FlaydONE is letting his subscription expire for the reasons you just spelled out. He's been with AH for around 5 years (I think), and has seen it deteriorate to "a shadow of its former self" as he put it.
-
Originally posted by 999000
Seriously if there is a good furball going on between two base with no objective that I can tell... I simply drop a line of eggs on the runway.
999000
And kill every fighter that attacks you.:lol I've only ran across your buffs once and it was back before Christmas. Tried to get you twice that night and then decided to just leave you the hell alone.:D
Guys......................... .......
This thread wasn't to knock BUFF DRIVERS.
It was a bad idea to even bring up the idea.
Let's just go back to our normal animosity for each others chess piece.
-
What I don't understand is,if ppl just want to dogfight alone...Why don't they all go to DA?
|Problem solved:aok
-
Originally posted by Hazzer
What I don't understand is,if ppl just want to dogfight alone...Why don't they all go to DA?
|Problem solved:aok
-
Originally posted by Hazzer
What I don't understand is,if ppl just want to dogfight alone...Why don't they all go to DA?
|Problem solved:aok
Because some guy always decides to join the fight. Sometime they do ask and thats good because you have more people to fight. A lot of times how ever, a guy comes in just to cherry pick, and you always have some zip coad guy in a 262 just buzing over your head.
There is always some senior guy that just jumps in, makes it his fight, changes the rules, and then talks to you to death on 200. Am I right Bat? ;)
The other reason is that this is not what the DA was created for so we don't want to cause a problem by using it in a way that it was not intented.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
The other reason is that this is not what the DA was created for so we don't want to cause a problem by using it in a way that it was not intented.
I need to find the stone HiTech engraved this on.
EDIT: "The Dueling Arena contains a special terrain with separate areas for all types of game play including furballing, tanking, and canyon fighting." HTC- Game Info/ Arenas
Not intended to say poo-poo on furballing in the MA's, mind you. Carry on. :)
-
I'm curious....
just where do us JABOs figure in to this category?
-
The DA terrain really isn't what anyone wants for a furball location.
If it had a true map instead of specific setups that might be different.
The DA is two equal height pedestals with a low, flat, smooth featureless terrain between.
The better maps have hills, valleys, humps, trees, rivers, oceans, windmills... stuff... that add to the fight.
Example: You're in say an FM-2 with adequate speed and a Tiffy dives on you from on high. You see him level out 4k back, closing fast. You make it to a ridge that drops off into a valley. Now you can put the nose down and pray or you can reverse and try to lead turn him as he comes over the ridge. The Tiff can't see what you decide to do until he clears the ridge. Gives you a chance to do some of that pilot stuff while keeping the Tiff driver on his toes.
And how many times have you scraped an opponent off on a canyon wall? That's a rewarding experience.
In the flat featureless terrain of the DA, that would be impossible.
Make us a DA with the Original Ozkansas map... I'll be in there!
-
Originally posted by thndregg
I need to find the stone HiTech engraved this on.
EDIT: "The Dueling Arena contains a special terrain with separate areas for all types of game play including furballing, tanking, and canyon fighting." HTC- Game Info/ Arenas
:rofl Imagine that. I wish I knew that a while back :lol
-
Originally posted by Booz
The tools to stop bombers have always existed, you just have to choose to use them.
perfect....
i never hear the dedicated bomber guys start whiny threads about the "l33t" pilots who jack their score up by attacking them when they are hitting strat or HQ...i guess they are willing to take the game as a whole instead of insisting on a protected playing field dedicated to them....what fools:D
-
Originally posted by thndregg
I need to find the stone HiTech engraved this on.
EDIT: "The Dueling Arena contains a special terrain with separate areas for all types of game play including furballing, tanking, and canyon fighting." HTC- Game Info/ Arenas
Not intended to say poo-poo on furballing in the MA's, mind you. Carry on. :)
Just curious, what's the date on the post? It's my understanding that HiTech changed the old DA do to the fact he wanted more structured and less of a "furball" type mentality. I lived in the old DA, it's what I payed my $15 a month to do. I was real sad to see it go.
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
Just curious, what's the date on the post? It's my understanding that HiTech changed the old DA do to the fact he wanted more structured and less of a "furball" type mentality. I lived in the old DA, it's what I payed my $15 a month to do. I was real sad to see it go.
Yep...I truly miss the free for alls we once had in there.
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
Just curious, what's the date on the post? It's my understanding that HiTech changed the old DA do to the fact he wanted more structured and less of a "furball" type mentality. I lived in the old DA, it's what I payed my $15 a month to do. I was real sad to see it go.
Actually Superdud, I'm curious about this, too. Aparently whatever DA environment they are refering to is way before my time (pre-2004). It's too bad, really. Sounds like it was a fun place to play.
-
imop,furballers are blondes
-
and they have more fun:D
-
Originally posted by CAV
The solution has been done before, you just have to look to what AW did. They made a "Fightertown" arena just for the Furballers and it worked. An FT in the main MA's never worked. But a FT arena did, If you only had a few minutes to play it was a great place to look for a fight.
The Furballers set-up their little rules about 1 on 1's,, HO's etc., etc. All was good with the world, you had FT for furballing and the MA's to play war.
There was one downside to the FT arena.... The FT Arena backfired on the Furballers. For all their posting in the Aw forums it turned out that "furballers" was very few in numbers. And when they started B...ing about toolsheders killing a good furball in the MA, it was pointed out that they can go play in FT if they don't like it.
For the most part I do not remember lots of toolsheder vs furballers food fights in AW, other than the one time they tried to make a "FT island" in the Big Pac arena. And that went away once FT island went away.
Cavalry
Cav is dead on on his recollection of the FT arena in AW. But it would be the Grand solution in here or it would be the Grand failure, but it would be the fault of those who are calling for a "Fighter town". You make a single new arena just for fighters with GV's and Buffs and ord disabled. Simple and to the point and let's see how populated it is. I'd wager that it would peter out after a few campaigns just like it did in AW.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
-
I wonder if we dare try a return to the old miniscule strat and simplistic base capture along the orginal lines of AW, WB and Beta AH.
That was when the action was fast and furious and fun was a given.
The more complicated it became, the more arguments we had over all this strat/toolshedder/warwinner v furballer stuff.
K.I.S.S. is still a great principle.
I'd like to see THAT type of arena made available for a two month trial and then see where the players hang out. There was something for everyone in those setups.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again: needless complexity is what brought about this situation.
It's a game and it should be about having fun. This isn't an old Avalon Hill boardgame that takes forever to play with the goal of "winning".
This is about air combat and having fun, even if you only have 30 minutes to play.
-
Originally posted by doc1kelley
Cav is dead on on his recollection of the FT arena in AW. But it would be the Grand solution in here or it would be the Grand failure, but it would be the fault of those who are calling for a "Fighter town". You make a single new arena just for fighters with GV's and Buffs and ord disabled. Simple and to the point and let's see how populated it is. I'd wager that it would peter out after a few campaigns just like it did in AW.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Yes it would die within a week or two. There is nothing like the MA. The AvA, EW, and MW arenas show that. Even if it did atract people, the cherry pickers and vulchers would show up so in a sence you could never have a furball arena or map. Only the MA would work with some areas like donut etc that could encurage furballing
-
Originally posted by Toad
I wonder if we dare try a return to the old miniscule strat and simplistic base capture along the orginal lines of AW, WB and Beta AH.
That was when the action was fast and furious and fun was a given.
The more complicated it became, the more arguments we had over all this strat/toolshedder/warwinner v furballer stuff.
K.I.S.S. is still a great principle.
I'd like to see THAT type of arena made available for a two month trial and then see where the players hang out. There was something for everyone in those setups.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again: needless complexity is what brought about this situation.
It's a game and it should be about having fun. This isn't an old Avalon Hill boardgame that takes forever to play with the goal of "winning".
This is about air combat and having fun, even if you only have 30 minutes to play.
exactly
right now it takes 10minutes to take a town down, its almost impossible to deack and when you do finaly take the town down, it respawns? (no way does it stay down 45minutes)....
result? people create horde missions to do it faster.... gone are the day where a small fast raid on a town could be fast and furious action to take it... those small fast raids that often turned into mini furballs untill one side lost have totally gone... now its Hordes avoiding the defence at all.... everyone attacks defenseless bases instead...
but why should anyone defend when you have like 30acks defending a base for you, and a town that rebuilds itself faster than it falls down?
-
I think a lot of this stuff falls on how the community plays the game....
The AW FR community was an SCENARIO based community,(as was Warbirds) in those days we looked at the arena as just a place to work on the skills needed for the next frame we was getting readly to fly. We was playing the capture game in the arena's, trying to move the map and all the things we do today in AH. But I don't remmber caring if I won the map.
The arguments we had in AW was not about furballers/ toolshedders. It was things like ... "The P-51 is 5 mph to fast at 10,138ft." or the one I always liked... "Why is that B-17 outturning my Spitfire?"
In AW we played for the history of the planes and battles. In AH I feel the community has lost that... it has just become another shooter game.
Cavalry
-
Originally posted by Toad
I wonder if we dare try a return to the old miniscule strat and simplistic base capture along the orginal lines of AW, WB and Beta AH.
That was when the action was fast and furious and fun was a given.
I agree. Does the strat crowd have any objection to this? How about a poll.
-
Strat still exists; most folks don't want, it seems, to take the time to take strat targets below the 50% required to affect Airfields, or Vehicle Fields.
In my humble opinion, this really is the heart of the Bomber Mission.
And, upon that note...I see many folks taking out ords, and fuels, at Vehicles fields when they need to take out the Barracks to prevent resupply and capture abilities from that field. Ords and Fuel have no effect, currently, upon GV Bases.
JABOs need to surgically strike Ords and Barracks at airfields to prevent Bombers from taking off from that field, and to prevent capture attempts and resupply attempts from that field. Killing Barracks also kills resupply.
DAR used to be a primary target...but in my opinion, has moved to a tertiary target...i.e. ...if you've killed their Ords and Barracks...who cares if they see you coming to capture...they already know it...so why waste ords on it?
And this is where the folks who enjoy the Furball come in...when they are inclined to aid in capture...because they can cap the field and supress enemy fighters.
Just some thoughts....
-
Burp.
Oh excuse me, its saturday.
Call to arms you furry fkers, All your base are belong to us.
Cheers
Time to make the cocktails:p
-
:noid
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ
-
Some of us enjoy base capturing. Taking and owning real estate is a game goal, as designed by Hitech. It simply brings up a new map. So what? It also resets a badly mismatched map. That's a good thing.
I liked the idea of a furball volcano, as we had on that one map. I would have disabled bombers inside that hole, and let the furballers go nuts with themselves. It's a win win...... I'd also make the mountains 40,000 feet around it, to keep out the inevitable dweebs who insist on bombing in there.
Likewise, I'd enjoy seeing a TT in a volcano, absent planes of any kind. Once again, a win win...let the GV'ers fight in GV's without aircraft.
I know the coders can make this happen.
That leaves the rest of the map for base taking.
Simple :)
-
I must really be missing something as I can find a fight any night I get the time to fly. As near as I can tell the base takers are doing their thing too as are the GV guys.
I keep thinking I must have set my standards too low or something. I'm enjoying AH as much or more then ever. I'm really enjoying the folks I fly with and against.
Explain to me again where the problem is? What am I doing wrong that I'm still having fun? :confused:
I hate being behind the times like this.........:cry
-
:noid
(http://members.cox.net/kc7djr1/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
-
In a nutshell, this antagonism between 'furballers' and 'toolshedders' are basically a product of the game system. It's not because furballers are always carefree bunch of salamanders, nor because the tool-shedders are pathetic bunch of griefers in a desperate bid for attention, that this 'problem' persists.
Logically, from a 'toolshedder' point of view, the most contested areas on the map are more or less impregnable. Every perceivable 'attack' in the game is essentially tactical in nature, not strategical. The most deadly coordinated attack possible in the game is knocking out the field hangars - but frankly a fat lot of good it does when there's another enemy airfield functioning within a 15~20 mile radius of the target field. The 'strat' targets effect the game in a most negligible manner, and as such, there is no true means to really weaken and effect the enemy on a lasting, global scale.
Besides, no matter how many enemies you shoot down, they reup in an instant. The number of enemies in a given contested location always stays the same. There's no such thing as a 'weakening' defense, and the only way to force the other side to succumb is to simply put in more manpower, and use raw strength to discourage the enemy from upping from a certain airfield. There is no such thing as a 'tactical plan' that really works.
Therefore, every toolshedding attack is semi-effective for only about 15~30 minutes max. The only thing they can do to really make difference in the war game is to piss a lot of people off by continuously keeping the hangars, barracks, or ordnance down.. and you can't do that in a bomber that climbs to 18k. Bam! There you have it - the reason why bombers are degenerated into a over-bloated jabo roles.
Simply put, the toolshedders have no purpose in the game, because the game doesn't have any strategic aspect at all. Therefore, to achieve any kind of satisfaction, the toolshedder has no choice but to either resort to continuous suicidal runs in a heavily populated area, or do milkruns in a non-populated area.
On the other hand, from a furballers perspective, frankly nothing changes whether or not they respond to calls. The only real way of winning the game is to simply have more guys on your side - whether by pure country numbers, or by gangbanging the third country with the other country. Doing a 'mishun' plan against a well defended enemy territory is fruitless and a waste of time, and doing a milkrun capture against undefended enemy fields is total boredom. There's no excitement in any of the two, so they'd rather just forget all the 'war' aspect, and purely restrict the MA environment to aerial combat. The environment is more dynmaic than the DA can offer, and that's just about it for the furballers.
Ideally, the solution is to give a coherent objective inside the game, in which both the furballers and toolshedders can work with on a level ground. For instance, let's imagine that there's a some kind of long-term, global effect attritional strat object in the game - a fuel refinery (or a network of refineries) that governs the entire fuel supply of a whole country. A bomb run or two doesn't make it flinch, but a steady stream of bombruns for many in-game days may effect the enemy as a whole, and if left undefended and batterd for a long time, the effects will finally take its toll, and ALL the airfields in that country will start suffering from low fuel... until it becomes nearly impossible to up sorties that lasts more than 10 minutes or something.
Now, if there's a target like that, the toolshedders finally have something worth their time invested. It doesn't regen/replenish in 15 minutes like other objects. The effect is long-term, lasting for days, and very severe, a global-scale effect. Toolshedders will naturally prefer flying there over and over again, and bombing it to smithereens for many days.
The furballers may remain uninterested for a while. But after some signs of fuel starvations begins to show, some of the furballers will move over and actually try stopping toolshedder raids against their strats. Enemy resistance becomse higher, toolshedders will begin to suffer, will call in more escorts, and voila - a mini-scale "8thAF" situation in the MA.
Basically, the key is to build a system where both furballers and toolshedders can enjoy the game as a separate working part of a same war machine - instead of two totally different parts of a country that cannot understand each other.
It's not impossible. It just hasn't arrived yet.
-
nice, i like it.
-
Hey... since some people are calling the P38 a buff.. does that mean I can shoot friendly fighters? Like the ones that shoot at a plane I just ripped the wings off of?:t
-
The solution is to add another layer of complexity?
You guys always come up with the same answer and it never works.
You forget the arenas are lightly populated most of the day. So the crowd logs in at US prime time to find the fuel system is totally degraded by the non-peak hour milkers?
Yeah, that would solve the problem.
Dear Cod, please let HT hurry up and finish Tour of Duty so there will be a place for these guys to call their own. Let the MA return to what it is supposed to be, a simple aerial combat game. Amen.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Basically, the key is to build a system where both furballers and toolshedders can enjoy the game as a separate working part of a same war machine - instead of two totally different parts of a country that cannot understand each other.
It's not impossible. It just hasn't arrived yet.
Never thought I would say this Kweassa given our past debates but..........:aok
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
In a nutshell, this antagonism between 'furballers' and 'toolshedders' are basically a product of the game system. It's not because furballers are always carefree bunch of salamanders, nor because the tool-shedders are pathetic bunch of griefers in a desperate bid for attention, that this 'problem' persists.
Logically, from a 'toolshedder' point of view, the most contested areas on the map are more or less impregnable. Every perceivable 'attack' in the game is essentially tactical in nature, not strategical. The most deadly coordinated attack possible in the game is knocking out the field hangars - but frankly a fat lot of good it does when there's another enemy airfield functioning within a 15~20 mile radius of the target field. The 'strat' targets effect the game in a most negligible manner, and as such, there is no true means to really weaken and effect the enemy on a lasting, global scale.
Besides, no matter how many enemies you shoot down, they reup in an instant. The number of enemies in a given contested location always stays the same. There's no such thing as a 'weakening' defense, and the only way to force the other side to succumb is to simply put in more manpower, and use raw strength to discourage the enemy from upping from a certain airfield. There is no such thing as a 'tactical plan' that really works.
Therefore, every toolshedding attack is semi-effective for only about 15~30 minutes max. The only thing they can do to really make difference in the war game is to piss a lot of people off by continuously keeping the hangars, barracks, or ordnance down.. and you can't do that in a bomber that climbs to 18k. Bam! There you have it - the reason why bombers are degenerated into a over-bloated jabo roles.
Simply put, the toolshedders have no purpose in the game, because the game doesn't have any strategic aspect at all. Therefore, to achieve any kind of satisfaction, the toolshedder has no choice but to either resort to continuous suicidal runs in a heavily populated area, or do milkruns in a non-populated area.
On the other hand, from a furballers perspective, frankly nothing changes whether or not they respond to calls. The only real way of winning the game is to simply have more guys on your side - whether by pure country numbers, or by gangbanging the third country with the other country. Doing a 'mishun' plan against a well defended enemy territory is fruitless and a waste of time, and doing a milkrun capture against undefended enemy fields is total boredom. There's no excitement in any of the two, so they'd rather just forget all the 'war' aspect, and purely restrict the MA environment to aerial combat. The environment is more dynmaic than the DA can offer, and that's just about it for the furballers.
Ideally, the solution is to give a coherent objective inside the game, in which both the furballers and toolshedders can work with on a level ground. For instance, let's imagine that there's a some kind of long-term, global effect attritional strat object in the game - a fuel refinery (or a network of refineries) that governs the entire fuel supply of a whole country. A bomb run or two doesn't make it flinch, but a steady stream of bombruns for many in-game days may effect the enemy as a whole, and if left undefended and batterd for a long time, the effects will finally take its toll, and ALL the airfields in that country will start suffering from low fuel... until it becomes nearly impossible to up sorties that lasts more than 10 minutes or something.
Now, if there's a target like that, the toolshedders finally have something worth their time invested. It doesn't regen/replenish in 15 minutes like other objects. The effect is long-term, lasting for days, and very severe, a global-scale effect. Toolshedders will naturally prefer flying there over and over again, and bombing it to smithereens for many days.
The furballers may remain uninterested for a while. But after some signs of fuel starvations begins to show, some of the furballers will move over and actually try stopping toolshedder raids against their strats. Enemy resistance becomse higher, toolshedders will begin to suffer, will call in more escorts, and voila - a mini-scale "8thAF" situation in the MA.
Basically, the key is to build a system where both furballers and toolshedders can enjoy the game as a separate working part of a same war machine - instead of two totally different parts of a country that cannot understand each other.
It's not impossible. It just hasn't arrived yet.
fantastic ideas, and i wish it would come true too...
...maps would need a redesign, important strat should be near final bases, not on the front line like it is now.
Id prefer one large city, with the strats within. and also get the old bombsite back.
one bomber group wont make the difference, but multiple will, defence would generally KNOW when the bombers are coming and where they are going, unlike now. Bombin rail yards may have a 15minute effect but knocking down the factory itself will have a greater effect over a few days.
Theres so much that can be brought from these sort of plans, but sadly i feel they will get ignored or missed.
-
Originally posted by Anyone
but sadly i feel they will get ignored or missed.
Joyfully, I agree with you. I think HT is much smarter than that.