Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: benziel on June 19, 2007, 10:06:39 PM
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Is it just me or is someone cheating?
I just finished playing 8 player at AH and I got killed 3 times by different players with a headshot ( pilot wound )
I read the training manual and I know all the moves backwards!
Plus whenever someone is on my tail I try to do all the manuvers I can think off and always end up dead...
If its any concern I always fly a spitfire 1, a seafire or a Mk 1 and always fly with emergency war power
ill be here reading the post if you have any questions or comments...
BEFORE YOU REPLY!!!
If you dont have anything good to say dont say anything at alll...
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It's just you.
Reading the manual and knowing all the moves backwards does not make an ace by a long shot. Reading and understanding is one thing ... "doing" under pressure is another.
It appears that you just started flying this game ... I am approaching 6 years of playing this game and I still learn something new from each engagement. You haven't even scratched the surface.
If someone is good and they saddle up on your 6 ... 9 times out of 10 ... you will die and it doesn't really matter what your flying.
and always fly with emergency war power
And why would you do that ? ... also, you CAN'T ALWAYS fly with "War Emergency Power" ... all planes that did have WEP, have a limited amount of time that WEP was available ... so in truth ... you really don't AWAYS fly with WEP.
Another thing about WEP ... it can hurt as much as it can help.
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Greetings,
Young one, please come to fly in the MA. Pay the bill. You will find others who know the way of the Force. You will find some who are willing to teach the ways of the Force. For the Force is good.
Seriously, I die a lot. And I have been playing the game (badly) for over 7 years. Relax, it's only electrons. You got spunk, but try the training arena. There are many there better than I that can teach you.
If someone get on your six, you are toast 8 out of 10 times. Try cutting throttle, dropping flaps and cutting the throttle way back, it actually works once and a while. :)
Regards,
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As said knowing all the moves on paper having read them means very little knowing how and when to use them are the key.
There is much more to this game than what you can read on paper.
Follow the advise that has been provided thus far, especially using the training arena, with a trainer.
This will make the learning curve a little less steep and the guys in there know their stuff and can really help you.
Also I suggest you film your engagements and see "where you went wrong". In almost every engagement there is a time where you made a mistake that costs you.
Yes it is difficult getting someone from your six if they are a good pilot and more likely than not your going to get killed. The mistake is in letting them get there in the first place.
And by all means cough up the cash and fly the MA.. you WILL DIE ALOT but you will also learn alot too!!
<<>>
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Another thing about WEP ... it can hurt as much as it can help.
Being a noob, I always toggle WEP whenever I try anything in the vertical, but seldom use it in a break turn. WEP really only hurts you when you are trying to turn tight, right ??
Thanks, I'll sit in the corner and listen :)
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Learning the art of air combat in H2H is like learning to drive in a demolition derby. Pony up the $15 and try the real McCoy. If nothing else, you can arrange time with a trainer to find out how to put all those moves you know into a coherent game plan.
If you must fly H2H, look for Benny Moore's Maximum realism room. There's usually some decent sticks in there and Benny runs a tight ship.
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Like a race car diving into the corner, taking your foot off the gas and easing back in gets the car to turn instead of slamming into the wall.
Chopping your throttles going into a turn with a plane can get most planes to turn a bit better initionally, instead of skidding through the air.
Another "good" thing I can say, is NEVER accuse someone of cheating. Being new at this game, you will see stuff you have no idea how to duplicate. That doesn't mean they are cheating, that just means there is more for you to learn.
Another thing, in the H2H arenas the "hoster" has control over most of the settings for the arena, and these can vary widely from one arena to another. The only place they are constant is in the "pay" arenas.
One last thing, ask all the questions you want. In most cases you'll get good answers, but with any "public" board, your going to get a few "wize guy" answers as well. Adding lines like BEFORE YOU REPLY!!!
If you dont have anything good to say dont say anything at alll... will only add fuel to the fire for the "wize guys".
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Originally posted by: benziel
If its any concern I always fly a spitfire 1, a seafire or a Mk 1 and always fly with emergency war power
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Spitfire and Hurricane Mk1 models have WEP at all. Also on these planes the engine will quit while pulling any -ve Gs.
Originally posted by: benziel
IBEFORE YOU REPLY!!!
If you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at alll...
That kind of attitude won't get you anywhere.....You've gotta listen to the music whether Good or Bad!
Originally posted by: benziel
I just finished playing 8 player at AH and I got killed 3 times by different players with a headshot ( pilot wound )
I read the training manual and I know all the moves backwards!
Plus whenever someone is on my tail I try to do all the manuvers I can think off and always end up dead...
The above statements tell me a few things about you:
1. I got killed 3 times by different players with a HEADSHOT ( pilot wound ):
That term seems to be carry forward from FPS games. This is NOTHING LIKE a FPS. You cant go in guns blazing, you need to think, plan but most of all YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT.
2. I read the training manual and I know all the moves backwards:
You appreciate that some background studying is necessary to fly with any success in this game, and with reading comes understanding. Also you seem to have an excellent memory. I still get confused between a wingover and a hammerhead.
3.Plus whenever someone is on my tail I try to do all the manuvers I can think off and always end up dead...:
That tells me that although you know how to perform the maneuvers down to a T, you don't yet know when would it be best to employ which one. Fortunately, all that needs to solve is practice, practice, some reading and still more practice.
If you allow a con to saddle on your six, you have already lost a major part of the battle. However all is not lost, by effective, efficient and quick decisive actions you may be able to again reverse the situation. To fix this again, all you need is practice, practice, some reading and still more practice.
Best of Luck in the Virtual blue skies of AH!:aok
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Originally posted by Hazard69
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Spitfire and Hurricane Mk1 models have WEP at all.
You are wrong on this. They do have WEP.
(But all the rest is well said :) )
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Thanks Lusche!
Didn't know that. Been ages since I took up a spitty and even then it was always a SpitV !
:aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by duddini
Being a noob, I always toggle WEP whenever I try anything in the vertical, but seldom use it in a break turn. WEP really only hurts you when you are trying to turn tight, right ??
Thanks, I'll sit in the corner and listen :)
Very good duddini ... Fugitive has covered for me.
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when i get some one on my 6, i try to do a scissor. if you're in a fast plane (typh, temp, spit16, spit14) and have no flying experience, just run... cheap tactic, but if you're a beginner, it's the best thing to do. once u think you're ready to turn and do snap rolls and loops, you'll out manuver anything.
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Its not what you know its how you use it.:)
As in you may know how to do each maneuver as a separate thing. But the true art of dogfighting is being able to master them into one fluent motion like a poem or something. Its not just pen and paper its an art form.
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Originally posted by benziel
I read the training manual and I know all the moves backwards!
BEFORE YOU REPLY!!!
If you dont have anything good to say dont say anything at alll...
Well, seeing the planes go forward and not backwards, learn the moves forward.
IMO, that was good. :)
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Originally posted by duddini
Being a noob, I always toggle WEP whenever I try anything in the vertical, but seldom use it in a break turn. WEP really only hurts you when you are trying to turn tight, right ??
Like anything else, WEP in a turn can be a double-edged sword and its use is situation dependant. Being too fast in a turn can mean an excessively large turn radius. Using WEP here contributes to the problem. Being too slow in a turn, though, can lead to an excessive turn rate.
You've probably heard someone say they didn't have the power to follow someone else through the turn. While their turn radius was very small because they were slow, it took them a long time to get around the circle because they didn't have the power to pull them around quickly. This is where using WEP in a turn can help instead of hinder.
A good example of this comes to mind. Just a couple of days ago, Widewing and I were helping some folks in the TA. Afterword, he got behind my Ki-84 with his P-40B down on the deck. Always looking for chances to compare performance of planes, I pulled into a tight circle with WW behind me with full flaps. The P-40 easily stayed with the Ki until I was slow enough to drop my flaps. To get to that speed, not only did I have to not use WEP, but I had to chop throttle significantly. Once I got flaps out, though, I increased throttle and even used some WEP to pull me around the circle quickly. I had to watch speed to make sure I didn't get going fast enough to pull the flaps back in, but I was able to increase my turn rate enough that an advantage was gained even though I believe our turn radius was pretty close.
Regards,
Hammer
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Originally posted by fuzeman
Well, seeing the planes go forward and not backwards, learn the moves forward.
IMO, that was good. :)
:rofl
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Ahh, yes MWL said it well. Patience my young padawan. You've only begun your journey to Jedi Knighthood! There is much to learn and it takes time to master each and every maneuver, decision, and tactic.
Resist the temptation of the Dark Side! Do not be fooled! This is not a contest of simply the quickness of your hands and feet, the deftness of your eyes, or knowing how to perform basic fighter maneuvers. This is also a contest of the mind! Yes, my young padawan, a contest of the mind! To succeed your mind must be quicker than your own hands and eyes. Yes, your mind must be even quicker than that of your adversary's mind! The Jedi Dogfighter knows that if you outsmart your opponents then you've outflown them too.
The Jedi Dogfighter does not think in terms of maneuvers. No, maneuvers are only what you see with your eyes. The Jedi Dogfighter thinks in terms of angles and energy. Mastering how to exploit angles and energy against your opponent begins with studying many things. Study you must from the strengths and weakenesses of each plane to things such as when to use a nose-to-nose turn vs. a nose-to-tail turn, and even to the esoteric world of aerodynamics and physics . It is the key to seeing the world in angles and energy and not maneuvers.
For instance Master Hammer has just discussed the nuances of when to use WEP. There is no one size fits all rule. Some people say slowing down means you'll turn inside your opponent, therefore don't use WEP. Let's look at a diagram from Master Badboy:
(http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/Corner.jpg)
If I was in a bF109-E4 at 138 mph against a Spitfire Mk I at 80 mph and both of us were turning, the 109 would be turning a smaller circle (~550 ft radius) compared to that of Spitfire Mk I (~800 ft radius). On top of that the 109 also would have a turn rate advantage (~20 degrees per second) vs. the Spit (~10 degress per second). So you see, in this situation the slower plane actually turns worst, not better! So the faster and more quicker turning 109 should win the fight!
Well….not exactly. The 109 might very well lose the fight to the slower Spitfire Mk I if the situation is like the following:
(http://brauncomustangs.org/upload/n2n-speed-turns.jpg)
Plane A (RED) represents the 109 (138 mph) in our example while Plane B (BLUE) represents the Spitfire Mk.I (80 mph). Plane A (109) can turn quicker and tighter (smaller turn radius, greater turn rate). Let's assume the 109-E4 and Spit Mk.I start abeam of each other. I've overlaid in light red and blue the turn radius' of both planes to demonstrate that there is a difference in turn circles. At time 1 they turn into each other. At time 2 the 109 reverses the turn to attempt a lead turn because of the angular advantage it has gained thinking "I'm the better turning plane!" while the Spit Mk.I responds in kind in the classic nose-to-nose turn contest. But the Spit Mk.I going at 80 mph even though it has a larger turn radius and slower turn rate compared to 109-E4 somehow ends up with angles on 109-E4 instead at time 4. How did that happen? In this situation the relative difference in speeds with the Spit Mk.I being slower is the deciding factor, not the plane with the better turn radius or the turn rate.
So you see young padawan, this is just small example of what a Jedi Dogfighter needs to be processing through the mind!
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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excellent reply dtango, especially the lightened overlaid turn circles........
I would like to request this be posted on the Trainers website as well if you have no objections, dtango.... I would add in "at time .3 possibly though, you mention the spit 1
Spit Mk.I responds in kind in the classic nose-to-nose turn contest.
for time .3 but do not mention the number itself, just a thought, .....
is a CLEAR stepping stone from Basic BFM 101 to Intermediate ACM 202 :aok
thanks for posting
~S~
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Why thank you TC :). You most certainly may use that diagram. Feel free to post away. Good suggestion regarding adding the statement about time 3.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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This is great stuff. So in a knife fight, slower doesn't always lead to turning better...............my brain hurts..... :(
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Originally posted by duddini
This is great stuff. So in a knife fight, slower doesn't always lead to turning better...............my brain hurts..... :(
Yep, that's right. Folks like to use the car analogy when it comes to turn radius. In a car the slower you go the smaller the turn radius.
Unfortunately this doesn't apply for airplanes. Below corner velocity, the slower you go the lower the maximum bank angle the plane can support because you don't have enough airspeed for the wings to generate the lift needed to support a higher g-load for a tighter turn.
That may not matter though like in the illustration I made above. In a situation where you have repeated nose-to-nose turns (scissors if you'd like) the plane with the least relative forward travel will force the overshoot and gain the angles advantage (assuming the right separation distances to begin with). That's why slowing down makes great sense in this situation.
Of course there are counters to this that the faster plane can make. Also the whole dynamic also changes if the separation distance between the planes are closer as shown in the image below:
(http://brauncomustangs.org/upload/n2n-speed-turns2.jpg)
In this case the you can see that the slower aircraft with the larger turn radius comes out at the disadvantage and the faster but tighter turning aircraft will get a shot attempt sometime out in Time 5.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Greetings,
Brain hurts does mine. 47N turns, does not. Must situtational understanding learn I!
Regards,
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HMMMM........................ .............
I think I'll give duddini some company in that corner
GREAT STUFF HERE BTW! Real food for thought!
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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great post tango;) :aok
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Hello Sir, I won't waste your time with down talk and nonsense which I believe every person deserves.
I've only been playing since Nov 06 and I too have a very hard time shaking cons off my 6. Only time I can shake a con is in a rolling scissor which any decent vet can kill me in. At that point I personally need a country team mate to clear my 6 which I appreciate and thank that person as too get the same courtesy because it's not their duty nor responsibility to do so.
I fly in the MA under Tex01 in the Bish country and would do what I can to help you become a better pilot like many of my squadies and country men have. Good luck and remember it’s only a game when things get tough.
:aok
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Originally posted by MWL
Greetings,
Brain hurts does mine. 47N turns, does not. Must situtational understanding learn I!
Regards,
Do what I do, just keep dropping flaps till it falls outta the sky:aok