Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tommygun on June 21, 2007, 11:44:35 AM
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I see and hear a lot of whining about people stealing kills or getting assists when they thought they should have gotten the kill.
How is is determined who gets the kill and who gets the assist when multiple planes shoot down the same bogey?
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Who ever does the most damage gets the kill. So if I throw 30 rounds and knock a wing off a guy, its my kill..... unless some other guy chases it down putting 35 rounds in it, then he gets the kill and I get the assist.
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Who ever puts the most lead in the plane gets the kill. Thats why tards spray tanks with .303s and .50cals. They will never do damage but they will get the kill when a friendly tank puts a few shells in it.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Who ever does the most damage gets the kill. So if I throw 30 rounds and knock a wing off a guy, its my kill..... unless some other guy chases it down putting 35 rounds in it, then he gets the kill and I get the assist.
I don't believe "the most damage" gets the kill theory, because if that's the case it sure as hell doesn't work that way. Being I tend to fly planes with smaller ammo size and load out, I tend to see a lot of assists especially when I'm flying the ki-84 or a A6m.
I've routinely smoked a guys engine, given him cockpit shots, knock off ailerons and then have someone come along take a few pop shots with a big cannon plane and I get a assist and he gets the kill.
Then on the flip side, I've come across planes and they were not even smoking with no physical appearance that it's even damaged. I come in and blow the tail or wing off and only get an assist.
Then there is the other side, I've come up to planes that were smoking either fuel or black smoke I kill him and get the kill and I'm expecting the assist.
Personally I think it has more to do with the cannon size than anything else. There are certain planes that If I hit another plane I'm almost certain I'll get the kill rather than an assist. Then there is the flip side where I'm almost expecting to get the assist 5 out of 10 times.
I think the damage model is a bit buggy when it comes to actual cannon size. No way in hell can you tell me a guy whom blew the wing off a plane did less damage than anyone else that hit the same plane. Taking the wing or tail off of a plane causes it to stop flying. You can't get much more damage than that.
edit..
The same issue with GV's.. I like to use the M-8 quite a bit and it takes a lot of rounds in tanks and flacks to kill them. I've taken out turrets (1 to 3 shots) Then continued to hammer on the tank body (typically 5 to 10 rounds depending what it is) to only get an assist because someone shot him before I was finished or because maybe they had a deflection shot on him before I saw him.
So it's the same deal in the GV's it's just doesn't happen quite as much, because GV fights tend to be more spread out.
So my theory is, the "round" size plays more into it, than anything else. I'm guessing the damage model works off the point system. So a bigger round will cause more damage points. Meanwhile someone else might do more "actutal" damage with smaller rounds and cause less overal "damage points".
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I think it should be who ever does the most damage not just the amount of shots. I could put 4 shots in a plane. Kill the pilot with one, blow the wing off with 3. (Those are some big bullets!) Then some dweeb comes down and puts 5 rounds into plane and just destroys an elevator. It would make more sense for me to get the kill, instead of the guy who put in 5 rounds instead of 4. Also, I have a question. If some guy puts in 6 7.7mm rounds, and I can put in 5 30mm rounds, and the plane is going down, would I get the kill since my bullets cause more damage, or will he since he put more in?
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Larry has it right. It's not most damage that gets the kill, it's most hits. Put 300 rounds of .303 on a target without breaking anything and you'll get the kill when someone with a 30mm kills the pilot.
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The system now awards the kill to the person who does the most damage, not how many pings. There is damage done even if the plane is still flying. If you got an assist, it meens that some one else did more damage to the plane than you did, you just happen to put in the last bullet.
HiTech
This Thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118517&highlight=assist)
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That seems fair.
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Originally posted by crockett
I don't believe "the most damage" gets the kill theory, because if that's the case it sure as hell doesn't work that way. Being I tend to fly planes with smaller ammo size and load out, I tend to see a lot of assists especially when I'm flying the ki-84 or a A6m.
I've routinely smoked a guys engine, given him cockpit shots, knock off ailerons and then have someone come along take a few pop shots with a big cannon plane and I get a assist and he gets the kill.
Then on the flip side, I've come across planes and they were not even smoking with no physical appearance that it's even damaged. I come in and blow the tail or wing off and only get an assist.
Then there is the other side, I've come up to planes that were smoking either fuel or black smoke I kill him and get the kill and I'm expecting the assist.
Personally I think it has more to do with the cannon size than anything else. There are certain planes that If I hit another plane I'm almost certain I'll get the kill rather than an assist. Then there is the flip side where I'm almost expecting to get the assist 5 out of 10 times.
I think the damage model is a bit buggy when it comes to actual cannon size. No way in hell can you tell me a guy whom blew the wing off a plane did less damage than anyone else that hit the same plane. Taking the wing or tail off of a plane causes it to stop flying. You can't get much more damage than that.
edit..
The same issue with GV's.. I like to use the M-8 quite a bit and it takes a lot of rounds in tanks and flacks to kill them. I've taken out turrets (1 to 3 shots) Then continued to hammer on the tank body (typically 5 to 10 rounds depending what it is) to only get an assist because someone shot him before I was finished or because maybe they had a deflection shot on him before I saw him.
So it's the same deal in the GV's it's just doesn't happen quite as much, because GV fights tend to be more spread out.
So my theory is, the "round" size plays more into it, than anything else. I'm guessing the damage model works off the point system. So a bigger round will cause more damage points. Meanwhile someone else might do more "actutal" damage with smaller rounds and cause less overal "damage points".
Thats because a 6-80 big cannon rounds are worth 1000 303's or 400 50's
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Size of the gun and damage doesnt count when getting a kill. I fly the 109K4 alot. I only put one 30mm in the plane and take his wing/tail off and get assists all the time. Once I come up on a pony flying back to his base. I droped in and made a slashing attack and hit him with three 30mms (two in the right wing one in the tail) it broke off both the tail and wing. I start to fly off and watch him smack the ground. (assist)
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Would it be possible to introduce a system which 'turns off' the ability to be awarded damage to critically damaged aircraft?
For example... You take the wing off a bomber.... no chance of further controlled flight... and a lovely...... 'person' on your country follows this flaming wreck down, spraying, resulting in them being awarded the kill on an already critically damaged aircraft.
Perhaps when critical damage is registered, the ability to be awarded anything greater than an assist is turned off?
Perhaps allow people to take the rest of wing off of a tip'd and flaming buff in order to take them out before they can suicide bomb hangars/CVs... but award them with an assist.
All superficial damage would still be counted as always.... whoever does the most damage before an un-flyable state is reached counts... but once that 'flyable' threshold is crossed..... cut the ability to be awarded a kill.
I suspect that this idea has been raised before.... but it is a good one.
And think of how funny it would be to see those knobs who habitually follow other's kills down in order to steal the kill do so.... waste all their ammo, blow all their alt (and possibly auger :lol ) only for them to be awarded an assist for their 'trouble'.
:rofl
[Edit]
Also, I wonder if it would be worth considering changing how kills are awarded in the following case:
A target is hit quite hard by 'Aircraft A' with a 6 x .50 cal load out... yet the aircraft is still in a flyable condition and is no longer engaged with the intial attacker.... the battle rages on....
'Aircraft B', a countrymen of 'Aircraft A' encounters the target and engages. 'Aircraft B' gains the advantage and takes a shot with 30mm cannon which would destroy any aircraft, fresh out of the hangar or otherwise.
It seems to me that breaking an aircraft in two is more worthy of being awarded a kill than making swiss cheese of non-vital surfaces.
Perhaps change the system so that a catastrophic hit on a flyable aircraft gets the kill.
The way I understand it, the damage model works like this:
Each aircraft has a 'damage allocation', let us say 100 points of damage, 10 points of damage being a couple of bullet holes in non-critical areas, 100 being destruction.
If Aircraft A inflicts 55 points of damage on a target and Aircraft B inflicts 95 points of damage... only the first 45 points a counted and thus even with a 'kill-shot' from Aircraft B, Aircraft A is awarded the kill.
I'm too tired to go into this further right now.... anyone have any further thoughts or contributions to this idea?
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Originally posted by Larry
Size of the gun and damage doesnt count when getting a kill. I fly the 109K4 alot. I only put one 30mm in the plane and take his wing/tail off and get assists all the time. Once I come up on a pony flying back to his base. I droped in and made a slashing attack and hit him with three 30mms (two in the right wing one in the tail) it broke off both the tail and wing. I start to fly off and watch him smack the ground. (assist)
Very easy to explain ...
Say a P-51 wing needs 300 damage points for failure.
A .303 round can deal out 1 damage point.
A 30mm can deal out 30 damage points.
I have fought the P51 with a Hurri 1 and layed 295 damage points to his wing and I either ran out of bullets or he escapes.
Your flying along, spot said P51, swoop down and lay 1 30mm round into his wing.
With you shooting the wing you have used up the last 5 damage points and the rest of your 25 potential damage points are useless.
Lets see ...
Me ... 295 damage points
You ... 5 damage points (25 useless damage points)
I get the kill ... sorry about that.
Any scenario you come up with can be explained thru the mathematics, but I do believe that a pilot kill overrules any and all damage. Kill the pilot and you will get the kill.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Would it be possible to introduce a system which 'turns off' the ability to be awarded damage to critically damaged aircraft?
For example... You take the wing off a bomber.... no chance of further controlled flight... and a lovely...... 'person' on your country follows this flaming wreck down, spraying, resulting in them being awarded the kill on an already critically damaged aircraft.
Perhaps when critical damage is registered, the ability to be awarded anything greater than an assist is turned off?
Perhaps allow people to take the rest of wing off of a tip'd and flaming buff in order to take them out before they can suicide bomb hangars/CVs... but award them with an assist.
All superficial damage would still be counted as always.... whoever does the most damage before an un-flyable state is reached counts... but once that 'flyable' threshold is crossed..... cut the ability to be awarded a kill.
I suspect that this idea has been raised before.... but it is a good one.
And think of how funny it would be to see those knobs who habitually follow other's kills down in order to steal the kill do so.... waste all their ammo, blow all their alt (and possibly auger :lol ) only for them to be awarded an assist for their 'trouble'.
:rofl
[Edit]
Also, I wonder if it would be worth considering changing how kills are awarded in the following case:
A target is hit quite hard by 'Aircraft A' with a 6 x .50 cal load out... yet the aircraft is still in a flyable condition and is no longer engaged with the intial attacker.... the battle rages on....
'Aircraft B', a countrymen of 'Aircraft A' encounters the target and engages. 'Aircraft B' gains the advantage and takes a shot with 30mm cannon which would destroy any aircraft, fresh out of the hangar or otherwise.
It seems to me that breaking an aircraft in two is more worthy of being awarded a kill than making swiss cheese of non-vital surfaces.
Perhaps change the system so that a catastrophic hit on a flyable aircraft gets the kill.
The way I understand it, the damage model works like this:
Each aircraft has a 'damage allocation', let us say 100 points of damage, 10 points of damage being a couple of bullet holes in non-critical areas, 100 being destruction.
If Aircraft A inflicts 55 points of damage on a target and Aircraft B inflicts 95 points of damage... only the first 45 points a counted and thus even with a 'kill-shot' from Aircraft B, Aircraft A is awarded the kill.
I'm too tired to go into this further right now.... anyone have any further thoughts or contributions to this idea?
I have aways wanted it to be ...
Once a critical failure (loss of wing, loss of tail, anything that renders the plane flightless) has occured, then any and all damage point calculations cease and the kill is awarded, at that point, to whomever did the most damage.
If others choose to attack the flailing wreck pumping rounds into them ... have at it ... like you said, they would only be blowing their alt and ammo.
EDIT ... I don't agree with your EDIT ... take my scenario of the Hurri 1 vs P51 ... the P-51 could have exited the fight and there is nothing that the Hurri 1 could do about that ... yet that person DOES deserve the kill.
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It's not that those points are useless, it's just that someone else did more total damage.
Originally posted by SlapShot
I have aways wanted it to be ...
Once a critical failure (loss of wing, loss of tail, anything that renders the plane flightless) has occured, then any and all damage point calculations cease and the kill is awarded, at that point, to whomever did the most damage.
If others choose to attack the flailing wreck pumping rounds into them ... have at it ... like you said, they would only be blowing their alt and ammo.
This would be great.
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Originally posted by Laurie
Thats because a 6-80 big cannon rounds are worth 1000 303's or 400 50's
Yes but that just goes to show that it's a flawed system. If the guy with the big cannons just peppers the guy but does no "real" physical damage to the plane. Why then should the guy flying the plane with 303's be penalized when he blows the wing off the con just to get the assist.
It is what it is, so complaining about it isn't going to do much more than likely. However it's just one more thing that discourages the use of the "lesser equipped" planes.
If I want to up a spit 1 or a Hurricane 1 because it's a challenge. I do all the work sawing off a wing only to lose the kill to some LA dweeb whom flew buy and peppered the fuselage with a few cannon shots. Life's not fair I guess, neither is this game. I just think maybe the guy that does the damage to the "vital" points on the con should get the credit.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's not that those points are useless, it's just that someone else did more total damage.
Which makes them USELESS.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Which makes them USELESS.
Exactlly, depending on the plane I'm flying.. If I see a con that 's smoking there is a good chance I'll just let him go. Simply because I know it's a wasted effort..
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Originally posted by SlapShot
EDIT ... I don't agree with your EDIT ... take my scenario of the Hurri 1 vs P51 ... the P-51 could have exited the fight and there is nothing that the Hurri 1 could do about that ... yet that person DOES deserve the kill.
This is what concerned me with my second proposition.
It is a matter of perspective in this case, which makes it hard to find a solid answer.
Does one who puts a larger amount bullets (ie, a large and solid spray of 303s) into a target, though without causing any critical damage deserve a kill when another aircraft comes in and deals catastrophic damage to a previously flyable aircraft?
Your arguement with the large 'damage point' count seems convincing, though when put into a context.... an aircraft still flying, regardless of '90/100 points of damage to a vital part' is still flying and able to return to base or loiter further.... I would not consider this a kill, though the point system would when another attacker deals a lethal blow but is only awarded '10 points' of damage.
This is the position of my edit.
Thank you for helping me clarify my point, Slapshot.
Regards
-Arch.
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The system overall seems ok, but it has happened afew times that i have taken the entire tail of a plane only to see a moron come in and steal the kill and then claim he did not see it was fluttering down in a funny way.
And i dont care what _anyone_ sais... strafing tanks with mgs will often get you the kill even if nothing is damaged. When the poor jabo or tank guy later puts a well placed bomb or shell in it he will get the assist. The one who did real damage gets assist and the strafer gets kills.
If i attack a base and see some dude gunning all the gvs at random i wont waste my ord those but will drop it on something else (unless a countryman REALLY needs it dead)
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Originally posted by Xasthur
This is what concerned me with my second proposition.
It is a matter of perspective in this case, which makes it hard to find a solid answer.
Does one who puts a larger amount bullets (ie, a large and solid spray of 303s) into a target, though without causing any critical damage deserve a kill when another aircraft comes in and deals catastrophic damage to a previously flyable aircraft?
Your arguement with the large 'damage point' count seems convincing, though when put into a context.... an aircraft still flying, regardless of '90/100 points of damage to a vital part' is still flying and able to return to base or loiter further.... I would not consider this a kill, though the point system would when another attacker deals a lethal blow but is only awarded '10 points' of damage.
This is the position of my edit.
Thank you for helping me clarify my point, Slapshot.
Regards
-Arch.
In real life the guy whom dealt the final blow would be awarded the kill. The other guy would probably get a beer.
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Originally posted by crockett
In real life the guy whom dealt the final blow would be awarded the kill. The other guy would probably get a beer.
This is exactly my line of reasoning.
(I would also like it if HTC devised a way for said countrymen to actually GET that beer you speak of :aok )
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i don't care if i get a kill or assist, i just want to see the enemy shot down or exit the fight.
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It's not like you'll never get another chance at a kill.
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Originally posted by crockett
In real life the guy whom dealt the final blow would be awarded the kill. The other guy would probably get a beer.
In real life, a pilot would not dare shoot at a plane that another pilot was working over ... such is not the case in this pixelated world ... hence the reason for the system that we have.
In real life, everytime an FM2 pilot lit a Zeke on fire, I don't believe for one second that the other guys in his wing would blow their alt and ammo chasing a doomed plane ... such is not the case in this pixelated world ... hence the reason for the system that we have.
In real life, a flaming Zeke would be heading for home or looking for a soft piece of water to land or bail out on, unlike the Zekes in this pixelated world that will continue to fly on until they blow up ... ... such is not the case in this pixelated world ... hence the reason for the system that we have.
The common thread here ... this is not real life ... hence our pixelated world has systems in place to make up for the failings of those who play this game.
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i think the system is good at this point.
if you are worried about someone stealing your kill
do what i do, find the biggest red dar, fly towards it
chances are you wont live long enough for someone else to steel your kill.
one of the very few things that bug me about this game is when you see someone take out a plane, or you yourself take out someone, they are burning, heading down to become a crater, and some "teammate"
is following him down firing into him.
To me this is the only true "killstealer".
i think once 100% damage has been done, or should i say once the flying capability of a plane is gone, the kill is awarded.
this would stop all from following someone down.
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I agree with many posts on what should be but does anyone know the original question?:confused:
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Did you read the answers you got tommygun? I think Toad found the answer you seek..
Originally posted by Toad
This Thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118517&highlight=assist)
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Not being sure sure of what I could strafe down and what I couldn't, I'd initially strafe GV's. Since 97+ of the player base doesn't hang on the bbs as some of us do, I wouldn't be surprised if 4 out of 5 don't know that they aren't legitimately damaging the tank - especially since they get awarded a kill.
Hitech said that it's the tracks that are the problem, because they can soak up tremendous damage. But something about that explanation seems wrong to me - if in one pass I can damage a track enough to be awarded the kill later, how come I can't actually detrack the thing even if I stafe it 10 times? You'd think that enough damage to be awarded the kill would mean more than 50% of the way to some component being destroyed, right?
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:noid assist are over rated.
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Originally posted by crockett
Exactlly, depending on the plane I'm flying.. If I see a con that 's smoking there is a good chance I'll just let him go. Simply because I know it's a wasted effort..
Funny you mention this. I do the same thing, but from the other side. If I see a guy with a smoking engine, I leave him be (unless the smoker is still atttacking me or my teammates). Because I know if I shoot him I'll be stealing someone else's kill. I usually fly a 30mm plane.
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IMO, there isn't anything wrong with strafing GV's in a mg armed plane. The damage to the vehicle is accumilative and those 50cals do damage the gv but it may not be obvious.
IIRC, a single .50cal amounts to 1 1/2 pound of ord if it hits a critical area. I've tracked tanks using just the 50's on a Hellcat and even taken out engines on Tigers with the same. Ostys can be disabled easily with .50's if you attack at the proper angle and are a good shot.
So, IMO, whining about the GV damage model, the most detailed damage model in AH, is just sour grapes. Those who are fighting for personal glory in a virtual world such as AH really need to check their life priorities, this is a game ment to entertain, bragging rights should be reserved for real life situations, IMO.
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Originally posted by Toad
It's not like you'll never get another chance at a kill.
No but when you fly some of the planes with no cannons or not a lot of canons. It does get old landing 0 kills and getting 5 or 6 assists. Specially when you were the guy whom took most of the planes out of the air.
It's the main reason I rarely fly the Ki-84 anymore, even though it's one of my favorite planes to fly. I'm not saying I can't shoot guys down in it, but getting assist after assist gets old as hell.
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I think whoever causes critical damage (i.e. making a plane un-flyable or flaming it or placing the final kill shot on a GV) should be awarded the kill. Anything else before or after would still be an assist.
Lost elevators, ailerons, pilot wounds or half a wing missing would not be critical damage as the plane is still flyable. Similarily tracking a GV, taking out the pintle gun or engine or smoking the turret wouldn't be dritical damage to a GV.
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Guys who chase down a burning or spiraling non-flyable wreck should get sucked into a one way vortex to hell when a single round of theirs hit said wreck.
Oh, and for good measure, their balls should fall off too.
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Originally posted by Flatbar
IMO, there isn't anything wrong with strafing GV's in a mg armed plane. The damage to the vehicle is accumilative and those 50cals do damage the gv but it may not be obvious.
Thats just silly. I dont care how many 50 cals round you fire at the turret or armored part of a tiger or whattnot.. it wont "eventually" penetrate it. Not with any _realistic_ ammount of ammo anyway.
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Everyone listen to SlapShot,....that is excatly how it works, and for good reason.
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You should know by now that noone ever listens to slapshot :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
In real life, a pilot would not dare shoot at a plane that another pilot was working over
Unfortunately, real life mirrors the MA or I should say the MA mirrors real life.
There is an account from a P-38 pilot during the Hollandia air campaign in which he is describing an encounter with an Oscar. As the pilot starts to saddle up on the Oscar and line up his piper on the target, an unpainted P-38 suddenly appeared off the 1st P-38s wing. Just as the 1st P-38 pilots fingers were starting to tighten on the trigger, the unpainted P-38 let loose with its guns and hit the Oscar with a solid 9 second burst of 20mm and .50 cals, literally making the Oscar disintegrate. The unpainted P-38's pilot then gave a casual salute to the 1st P-38 pilot and broke off and flew away hunting for other kills. The 1st P-38 pilot got on the radio demanding to know who the bastard was that stole his kill. When he landed he found out that the unpainted P-38 was flown by Richard Bong and the kill he stole was his 25th kill.
Then there is the stories of McGuire over the Philippines but you get the point.
ack-ack
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Same story is told by a Canadian Mosquito pilot - pulls away leaving enemy crew bailing out of their aircraft. Another Mossie races in and shoots up the target until it disintegrates 100 feet above the sea.
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Originally posted by crockett
No but when you fly some of the planes with no cannons or not a lot of canons. It does get old landing 0 kills and getting 5 or 6 assists. Specially when you were the guy whom took most of the planes out of the air.
So I guess you're saying you need your name in lights in the buffer in order to feel that you are having fun?
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The ones that worry about it are the same guys doing 600mph powerdives out of the blue from 20k to a base to try to strafe some guy taking off.
If your that lame, practice more, the kills will come.
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I stand at 482 KILLS 101 ASSISTS as of this tour all in a corsair with 50 calls. I would agree with the hits over the total damage due to the fact I rarly ever get assists when I pepper a target.
I think it varies a little, I have givin PWs with 1 or 2 hits then have someone kill them with a cannon and I still get the kill. I think it varies to where the damage is dealt also. I almost always know when im going to get a kill over an assist. and vice versa. has anyone considerd maybe it goes by time spent actaully landing rounds? say for instance i dive on a target and hit him with rounds for a total of 2/10th of a second, but then a guy comes threw puts 2 20 mills in him that takes 1/10 of a second and drops a wing? U really wont know how its mesured unless Hightech answers this thread.
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Something else to consider...
Someone does lots of damage to a plane (smoking, leaking maybe flames) and gets killed. You put a few 303's in him because no one else is around, he goes down, you get the kill.
The major damage do'er to that plane was in the tower when the plane went down, so he couldn't get the kill. You did some damage (the final blow) and you get the kill.
No matter how slight the damage, if you get one ping and they auger, you get the kill if no one else hit him..
Just a thought...
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unfortunately, real life mirrors the MA or I should say the MA mirrors real life.
There is an account from a P-38 pilot during the Hollandia air campaign in which he is describing an encounter with an Oscar. As the pilot starts to saddle up on the Oscar and line up his piper on the target, an unpainted P-38 suddenly appeared off the 1st P-38s wing. Just as the 1st P-38 pilots fingers were starting to tighten on the trigger, the unpainted P-38 let loose with its guns and hit the Oscar with a solid 9 second burst of 20mm and .50 cals, literally making the Oscar disintegrate. The unpainted P-38's pilot then gave a casual salute to the 1st P-38 pilot and broke off and flew away hunting for other kills. The 1st P-38 pilot got on the radio demanding to know who the bastard was that stole his kill. When he landed he found out that the unpainted P-38 was flown by Richard Bong and the kill he stole was his 25th kill.
Then there is the stories of McGuire over the Philippines but you get the point.
ack-ack
Interesting ... but there is always an exception for anything ... but I am sure that it was not a rampant as we have in the pixelated skys of AH.
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This thread is hilarious!
Will some of you guys that know exactly how it works please call HiTech and tell him how he designed the system? Thanks!
Originally posted by Toad
Quote:
The system now awards the kill to the person who does the most damage, not how many pings. There is damage done even if the plane is still flying. If you got an assist, it meens that some one else did more damage to the plane than you did, you just happen to put in the last bullet.
HiTech
This Thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118517&highlight=assist)
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Toad you get in a panzer and Ill get in a spit1. I put 100 .303s into your track. Then let another tank kill you. Ill let you guess who will get the kill. If you dont know I will. That may be how they modeled it but it isnt working right. Right now its whoever gets the most pings on you thats why when I tater a plane I follow it down poping it with BBs to make sure I dont get robbed.
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I think you should call HT and offer him the same challenge.
There's always the chance it is not working the way he programmed/intended it to work.
Thrashing the dead horse here won't do a thing to solve any problem that actually exists, IF one in fact does exist.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Thats just silly. I dont care how many 50 cals round you fire at the turret or armored part of a tiger or whattnot.. it wont "eventually" penetrate it. Not with any _realistic_ ammount of ammo anyway.
You'll note that I didn't say you could easily kill an armored gv with mg's only. With 500 rounds of .50cal, if they hit critical areas, there would be the equilivant of a 750 pound bomb landing close by. Now, that bomb may not expend all it's energy on a critical part of the gv so the damage may not be as effective when the bomb drops in front of the tank as opposed to the side or rear.
The Tiger is vulnerable from an attack from the rear at a near vertical AOA.
Once again, critical areas can be damaged by 50's and since that damage is accumlative, kills and damage from 50's happen regardless of your 'caring' about it or how silly you think it is.
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Originally posted by Larry
Toad you get in a panzer and Ill get in a spit1. I put 100 .303s into your track. Then let another tank kill you. Ill let you guess who will get the kill. If you dont know I will. That may be how they modeled it but it isnt working right. Right now its whoever gets the most pings on you thats why when I tater a plane I follow it down poping it with BBs to make sure I dont get robbed.
.303s, nahhh. Now if you do like the scoretards and do it in a 110. Then yup you'll get the kill.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Toad
So I guess you're saying you need your name in lights in the buffer in order to feel that you are having fun?
Oh lets say as a male as I assume you are.. Do you not like to blow your whistle after all the steam builds up? Do you like to fire your gun and shoot blanks? Do you like to work all week and not get a pay check?
lol If you claim you don't like to land your kills I'll call yea a lier or a girl. :lol
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unfortunately, real life mirrors the MA or I should say the MA mirrors real life.
There is an account from a P-38 pilot during the Hollandia air campaign in which he is describing an encounter with an Oscar. As the pilot starts to saddle up on the Oscar and line up his piper on the target, an unpainted P-38 suddenly appeared off the 1st P-38s wing. Just as the 1st P-38 pilots fingers were starting to tighten on the trigger, the unpainted P-38 let loose with its guns and hit the Oscar with a solid 9 second burst of 20mm and .50 cals, literally making the Oscar disintegrate. The unpainted P-38's pilot then gave a casual salute to the 1st P-38 pilot and broke off and flew away hunting for other kills. The 1st P-38 pilot got on the radio demanding to know who the bastard was that stole his kill. When he landed he found out that the unpainted P-38 was flown by Richard Bong and the kill he stole was his 25th kill.
Then there is the stories of McGuire over the Philippines but you get the point.
ack-ack
So in other words he was pretty pissed off on channel 200 :rofl
Hell even on the History channel they got into kill steal a bit in the "middle east" Dogfights episode. It was the reason the one guy went off chasing the migs on his own, because prior to that his flight leader stole his kill.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Interesting ... but there is always an exception for anything ... but I am sure that it was not a rampant as we have in the pixelated skys of AH.
Well in real life, the skies wern't generally filled with fighters like they are here in our pixelated skies.
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Call me what you like.
More often than not I'll stay at a fight if there's good action until I run out of bullets, gas or both.
Landing kills isn't that big a deal with me. Shooting planes down is why I play. If I thought I could land 5 if I left immediately but I might get one more good engagement by staying and then running out of gas, I'd stay. No question. I get unlimited cartoon planes for $15/mo; how about you?
Generally, I think we all know when we've made the kill, despite the mechanics of the game's kill scoring system.
For example, as someone mentioned, if you get in a fight with an opponent that has some advantage (energy, maneuverability, etc.). You go round and round for 5 minutes and you gain the upper hand; you've bled his E and you're on his six and just as you squeeze the trigger... some friendly zooms past you and gets a cockpit shot.
Who REALLY made that kill? I think we all know the true answer although the game score system may award it to the cherry picker.
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Originally posted by Toad
Call me what you like.
More often than not I'll stay at a fight if there's good action until I run out of bullets, gas or both.
Landing kills isn't that big a deal with me. Shooting planes down is why I play. If I thought I could land 5 if I left immediately but I might get one more good engagement by staying and then running out of gas, I'd stay. No question. I get unlimited cartoon planes for $15/mo; how about you?
Generally, I think we all know when we've made the kill, despite the mechanics of the game's kill scoring system.
For example, as someone mentioned, if you get in a fight with an opponent that has some advantage (energy, maneuverability, etc.). You go round and round for 5 minutes and you gain the upper hand; you've bled his E and you're on his six and just as you squeeze the trigger... some friendly zooms past you and gets a cockpit shot.
Who REALLY made that kill? I think we all know the true answer although the game score system may award it to the cherry picker.
It's not the point of when you land or if you could leave early or what ever. The whole point is I think it's funny when you guys act as if it's so bad that someone wants to land a bunch of kills to see their name in lights.
I rarely ever land my kills because I always put myself in trouble that I never get out of lol. I just think it's funny when people act as if they don't like seeing their name up there landing a bunch of kills.
The only plane I care about landing kills in is a 262 simply because I don't want to lose the perks. However you can damn sure bet I don't mind seeing my name in the "big lights" if I happen to land my p38, ki61, yak9 or what ever my flavor of the month is.
Landing the kills isn't the fun part to me, the fighting is.. however the challenge is always to land. It's easy to up your fighter go find the biggest dar bar and shoot a guy or two down then go down in flames yourself. No real skill needed to do that. The hard part is getting out of that same mess and landing your plane in one piece after shooting down a few guys.
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Originally posted by Toad
I think you should call HT and offer him the same challenge.
There's always the chance it is not working the way he programmed/intended it to work.
Thrashing the dead horse here won't do a thing to solve any problem that actually exists, IF one in fact does exist.
Regarding to the GV damage & kill credit system, there actually is a problem:
Originally posted by Pyro
Ahh, I know why this happens. It's the tracks. They are a damageable component and can soak up a large quantity of damage from light cannon and MG which unbalances the kill awarding. I'll have to see if there's a way that HT can alter the awarding of GV kills to take that into account.
Coming from
this thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198373&highlight=Tracks)
Just for the record, in regards to air kills I have no real problem with the current system.
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Originally posted by crockett
Landing the kills isn't the fun part to me, the fighting is.. however the challenge is always to land.
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For you that may be true.
I really don't care if I land or not and I don't really consider it part of the challenge. If you fly to live, there's always a point in a furball type fight where it's smarter to run home and land.
Others, myself amongst those, would rather stay and get one more good engagement.
If I try to land, it's usually because I ran out of ammo or the plane is so shot up it barely will fly. Or maybe some quirk like the fight died out and there's nothing else to do, nothing to engage.
Like I said, we all fly for different reasons. Some may value the text buffer announcements some pretty much ignore them. As long as everyone is getting value for their money it's working like it should.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Interesting ... but there is always an exception for anything ... but I am sure that it was not a rampant as we have in the pixelated skys of AH.
I actually think that it was just as common in real life as it is in the game, just like head on shots were just as common in real life combat as they are in the game.
ack-ack
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I know it sounds corny , but I am happy for the team whenI get an assist or a kill.
Assist or Kill , its all good news.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I actually think that it was just as common in real life as it is in the game, just like head on shots were just as common in real life combat as they are in the game.
ack-ack
;) ... OK ... I think not ... :p