Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wolf05 on June 24, 2007, 10:16:34 AM
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I would like to see a varient of the JU-87 G1 Stuka, or at least give us a choice of carrying the twin 37mm BK 3.7 cannons on the D model which we now fly. It would give us another choice instead of the same old IL2.:aok
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Originally posted by wolf05
I would like to see a varient of the JU-87 G1 Stuka, or at least give us a choice of carrying the twin 37mm BK 3.7 cannons on the D model which we now fly. It would give us another choice instead of the same old IL2.:aok
Not that I won't support your wish... but it's not true we don't have another choice to the same old Il2 right now:
Hurricane IID with even bigger guns than a Ju87G ;)
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Lusche<
>, I know that we have the Hurri as well as the IL2 bud, but my wish is for a german aircraft that could bust tanks. I have flown the Hurri IID on numerous occasions, but like the way the Stuka handles, as well as the ord it can carry. Also, being a Lufftwaffe squadron, it would be nice just to have the choice of the JU-87 G1 over the other two tank busters.:D
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i rather have the Ju-88P1 with a 75mm or the Ju-88P2 with 2x 37mm. wayore bombload than the stuka, not as agile, but more firepower.
think of it this way:
you and your squad bomb a target, head home, spot a tank or building. dive, and strafe with your cannon. any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.
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Originally posted by titanic3
any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.
your kidding...
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(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3893/urscreenor2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Man, I want this!
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Armed with tungsten-cored, armour-piercing round, capable of upto 100mm penetration from almost any angleand distance.
Need perks, unless you want the ground war to go back to AH1 days where any aircraft would sneeze at a tank and it'd be disabled.
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Now we are talking the same language Ranger<
>lol. The JU-88 does in fact carry a heavier payload, but the JU-87 is a very nimble aircraft in its own right. And yes, I would not mind if it were a perked aircraft, as it would be worth it to those who have to battle the armored onslought to protect their bases and towns from heavy armored attacks.
It would also be great if it could be launched from a port for base defense.
I am sure Hitech in his infinite wisdom could put it together, and still allow the GV battle to endure this new addition if it were ever considered.:aok
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Originally posted by titanic3
i rather have the Ju-88P1 with a 75mm or the Ju-88P2 with 2x 37mm. wayore bombload than the stuka, not as agile, but more firepower.
think of it this way:
you and your squad bomb a target, head home, spot a tank or building. dive, and strafe with your cannon. any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.
99.99999999999999% SURE you can carry the cannons OR the bombs. NOT both. Theres the weight factor, and the fact that there is a VERY limited ammount of space in those birds. ESPECIALLY European birds.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
your kidding...
i blew up an spit5 with 7.92mm before...... even damaged a hurr1 sobad, he had to glide home....
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Armed with tungsten-cored, armour-piercing round, capable of upto 100mm penetration from almost any angleand distance.
Need perks, unless you want the ground war to go back to AH1 days where any aircraft would sneeze at a tank and it'd be disabled.
They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one. Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one. Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least. Maybe someone like Ack Ack or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.
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Originally posted by TheCage
They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one. Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one. Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least. Maybe someone like Ack Ack or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.
You can already practice now with the Hurri. The hurri has also the advantage of being much more maneuverable, while a 87G should be far more durable - but still would be the wrong plane to face AA fire from a Ostwind.
My guess is, would the 87G be implemented, it would see a lot of use in the first week, then radically drop to a miniscule level after people augered in droves ;)
Only a few pilots will stick to it, the rest will go back to dropping eggs on tanks or strafing them with .50cals...
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They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one.
It doesn't matter if they carry only one round each. The guns, if modelled according to spec, will penetrate the armour and cause a disablement/kill against any tank in the game.
Vets make it sound as if killing tanks with IL2s or Hurri2Ds is an easy task, but in reality both planes need a fair amount of practice and stable skill level to achieve real success as an anti-tank platform. The IL2 often requires a solid barrage of 23mms to pop a tank, and the frail Hurri2D 40mm (which is actually weaker in penetration capabilities than the IL2 23mm) needs a precise aim at a precise spot to do the same. And this task must be carried out often at deep angles with fast closure rate at low altitude.
Out of about perhaps 4x IL2s that might buzz around a single enemy tank closing in to the town, 2~3 of them are usually average people who go crashing into a tank without being able to disable or kill it. It takes them 2~3 deaths to poke a tank in the right spot to kill it. Specialized anti-tank planes are a large threat to any ground vehicle, but the ultimate equalizer in favor of tanks is that it actually takes good skill to kill a tank. That's the reason the current ground war is more or less balanced for good gameplay.
The Ju87G 37mm anti-tank cannon changes all that. It puts AH right back to the days of old AH1. Even 50cals would pop a Panzer tank in those days, and when GVs approached the field people upped Spitfires to kill them. As a result, the Panzer4 was all but extinct in the field, and the ground war totally consisted of only Ostwinds. The Panzer4 was a hangarqueen.
Therefore, the need for the perk is evident. If the Ju87G is unperked, a single, terrible pilot in a Ju87G would be able to stop a whole convoy of tanks attacking a town. Approach a tank, land 1 shot on the tank and kill it, crash/auger death, reup, rinse and repeat. At least with the IL2s or Hurri2s, a sucky pilot has a low chance of disabling so many tanks in a given time.
Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one.
In a real world where people fear the kingdom come, you'd be right. However, in AH people reup. They don't need to be good with gunnery to kill a tank. All they have to do is up a Ju87G, fly to a tank until the tank fills the front windscreen, and then go kamikaze into it with guns blazing and the tank would pop. That's how powerful the 37mm is.
People already do that with the Il2 and Hurri2D - the difference is, these guns aren't as powerful as the 37mms, and one is rarely successful in actually killing a tank.
Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least.
The very fact that the Ju87G will only be used within 5 mile radius of one's own home base, with friendly fighter planes swarming around, is already enough to negate that problem. How often do you see IL2s or Hurri2Ds flying to the enemy field 25miles away, to take out defending enemy tankers?
Maybe someone like Ack Ack or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.
You don't need practice with a gun that kills any tank with a single shot at all angles, all distances. All you need is the balls to fly into a tank with guns blazing - wether or not the attempt kills you.
And as it is, the n00bs of AH have six balls and no brain. You don't wanna encourage them.
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LOL Kweassa, have you ever flown one of those birds in any flight sim? I have, and hitting a tank even with guns blazing is not that easy to do. If your gunnery is not that good, your going to burn up your full clip on the first pass, and not do any damage to the tank. It really doesn't matter if you have the balls to attack the tank, because the guns are not that accurate to begin with. I just don't feel that it would be any worse then the IL2 or the Hurri gun platforms. If you perked the Ju-87 then you would have to perk the IL2 and the Hurri. No disrespect to you Kweassa but I just don't agree with your prophecy of doom and gloom. In the right hands yes it will be a killer, but the average player will not do that great in one.
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Well said Kweassa<
>, on all points Sir. But I do not think that the Stuka I am wishing for would own any battlefield at any time, but would at least make it a bit more fun and give us another choice of weaponry. I cannot tell you how many kills I have against both the Hurri II and the IL2 from main gun shots, as well as tearing them up and sending them home with my lil old pintle gun. I have also been hacked to pieces by others in GV's when I was in fact flying the same anti tank birds.
Yes, the 37mm is a very powerful round, but you have to hit your target to make it lethal. Even some of the best in the game cannot always get the easy kill, as there are always the variables kicking in. Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done. I still would like the option someday to have a choice of either the standard bombs or the 37mm to use the plane as it was intended to be used by its designers.
I still would like to see it launched from a port for defensive measures against large scale gv attacks. It would give the defenders of any port a little more of a chance to defend against the usual air and ground onsloughts that we have these days.:aok
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Originally posted by wolf05
Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done.
I doubt that this would be HTC's approach. They would model a gun to real word data, not downgrading it for reasons of "fairness". If the real performance of that gun is too effective in game, it would either been perked (most probably), or limited to few bases (not probably) or even not introduced at all.
Fudging ingame performance of planes vehicles or weapons would open the Pandora's Box.
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LOL Kweassa, have you ever flown one of those birds in any flight sim?
Is this a trick question, or an insult? I've been here since AH1.05, and subscribed every single month since then.
I've seen what the 'groundwar' was like in those days.
Did you see what the groundwar was like in those days?
I have, and hitting a tank even with guns blazing is not that easy to do.
It's only difficult when you care about actually surviving an attempt. When you don't really care you die or not, every thing is easy.
Think about that.
If your gunnery is not that good, your going to burn up your full clip on the first pass, and not do any damage to the tank.
Exactly.
If your gunnery is not that good, you cannot hold a steady point of concentrated fire against such a small target as a tank - especially if it is moving or actively manuevering to not expose his weaker armour.
That's why the Il2 or the Hurri2D needs a certain amount of skill. Anyone can aim and land a few hits on a tank. The real trick is to keep the aim steady, and keep ramming in those bullets at that same teensey weensey spot to really blow up a tank - and this is something average guys find difficult to do.
However, the Stuka 37mm cannon is in a league of its own. You don't need a steady stream or fire, or precision to pick a spot on a tank and hit it. All you need to do is connect just one round - and the tank will be heavily damaged at least.
Are you really trying to say a certain clandestine n00b, who just flies straight toward a tank he sees, and pulls the trigger down 2 seconds before crashing to the ground, can't even connect one single round on that tank before he dies?
Think about why people hate kamikaze suckers running in a suicidal bomb run against a CV.
Those dorks don't care if they die or not. All they want to do is sink the CV, and they don't evade, they don't maneuver, they don't pull out from a dive. All they do is just maneuver straight into a CV and release the bombs a few seconds before they crash into it.
Divebombing a heavily defended CV with precision quality is difficult. Going suicidal to land a bomb on a CV is not. It's basically the same thing with the Stuka. The only difference is, the G-Stuka is like a suicidal jabo plane heading to a CV with a bomb that can take out the flattop with a single hit.
It really doesn't matter if you have the balls to attack the tank, because the guns are not that accurate to begin with.
You keep confusing 'accuracy', as if its a given thing, a pre-requirement.
Accuracy is only a requirement when you intend to survive a strafing pass without crashing into a target. When you don't bother about pulling up, your rounds will always hit where you intended - moments before you plane hits it by crashing into it.
I just don't feel that it would be any worse then the IL2 or the Hurri gun platforms. If you perked the Ju-87 then you would have to perk the IL2 and the Hurri.
The Hurri2D or the Il2 doesn't have the 37mm AP round. Is this really so hard to understand?
No disrespect to you Kweassa but I just don't agree with your prophecy of doom and gloom.
Prophecy?
When guns are powerful enough to cut through tank armour like knife through a butter, tanks go extinct. It's all happened before. It may seem like a 'prophecy' to those who haven't seen it, but to those who've actually experienced it before, it's merely common sense.
In the right hands yes it will be a killer, but the average player will not do that great in one.
The gun is powerful enough, so that it doesn't need a 'right hand' to keep a steady target to kill a tank. That's why it needs a perk in the first place.
Imagine a jabo plane that has weird bomb that kills the entire town with just one hit. Any bozo can up a jabo, strap on the weird bomb, and obliterate a whole town with just one lame kamikaze attack.
Then imagine the Stuka 37mm shell as a 'weird bullet', and you'll get the picture.
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But I do not think that the Stuka I am wishing for would own any battlefield at any time, but would at least make it a bit more fun and give us another choice of weaponry.
wolf, when a plane can kill a tank as easily as the Stuka, it doesn't become an 'another choice'. It becomes a ONLY choice, and a DOMINATING choice.
Yes, the 37mm is a very powerful round, but you have to hit your target to make it lethal. Even some of the best in the game cannot always get the easy kill, as there are always the variables kicking in.
Yes.
Variables like enemy movement, covers, angles, airspeed, approach rate and etc etc.. All these variables mean something when you are about to do a dangerous low-alt strafing pass against a small object.
However, it doesn't mean anything, nor effect anything, when the pilot doesn't take heed. The tank is moving? He's under a cover? I'm flying too low? Too fast?
So what?
Just maneuver the plane and line up with a tank, and fire that shot. Ofcourse, you'll auger right after that shot, but hey, the tank is paralized. Mission accomplished.
That's the reality of a care-free environment. It happens everyday in the MA. If we bring in the Ju87G without any perks, it'll start happening in the ground war too.
Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done.
Take heed to what Lusche says.
The Mk108 30mm is a one-shot weapon. HT didn't 'compensate' for that weapon to make things 'fair'. He modelled it according what he thinks is the correct specifications.
The difference is, the 190s and 109s gets to use the 'one-shot' MK108 against a rapidly maneuvering enemy aircraft flying 300mph in a 3D airspace.
However, the Ju87G uses the 'one-shot' 37mm against a ground target moving at 35mph at best, against a target that's confined to 2D maneuvering.
I still would like to see it launched from a port for defensive measures against large scale gv attacks.
Free of perks, and it's not 'defensive measure' anymore.
It's the doomsday weapon pointed at the heart of ground warfare in the MA. The end result is a revert to the old AH1 days. Every body dumps main battle tanks, and goes back to using only Osties.
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Yes to the AT cannon Shtooka :aok
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Yes! oh god yes! please give me the JU87G. Its all Ive wanted since I was a puppy
Glenn
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Yes, I want it too. Throw in the solid nose cannon equipped 88, and JU52 and German half track and life will be good.:aok
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Might as well add the Panther while we are at it .:D
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Heck why not a B-29 then while we're on a roll?!
:noid
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Personally, I'd rather have the Ju-87D-5 with the wing mounted 20mm cannons. Perfect for dog fighting =)
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Personally, I'd rather have the Ju-87D-5 with the wing mounted 20mm cannons. Perfect for dog fighting =)
ack-ack
That would be fun.
The G2 would be great. The slow rate of fire would make 'suicide spraying' tricky for most retards.
Also, Kweassa.... I'm wondering if you have a reference for the lethality of this round? I'm not trying to be smart-arse here, it just seems that your account of this weapon is a little more 'glowing' than what I've previously read.
It would be interesting to read what you've read on G2's cannons.
And here is the video everyone loves
-Youtube- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg)
Oh yeeeahhhh.
Bring it. Perk it, whatever. Would be COOL.
Would give the Stuka a new lease on life too.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Also, Kweassa.... I'm wondering if you have a reference for the lethality of this round? I'm not trying to be smart-arse here, it just seems that your account of this weapon is a little more 'glowing' than what I've previously read.
It would be interesting to read what you've read on G2's cannons.
You can try this article about tankbusting guns (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm)
The only problem I have: The listed penetration is for Hartkernmunition, which used a tungsten core.
From all what I did read so far, the German tungsten supplies were so limited, that producion of anti-tank ammunition using tungsten was terminated quite early in the war.
The 87G was built from december 43 on. So did they still hat some stocks of Hartkern ammunition? Was that kin dof ammunition produced again in limited numbers? Or did the G use no Hartkern ammunition at all?
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Kweassa I was not being disrespectful in any way shape or form. I simply asked if you had ever flown that particular plane in any combat sim. I didn't ask how long you have been in this game. I have been around about as long as you have. I can dig up past doom and gloom prophecy's you have made in the past, and not one of them came true except you dead horse cheer leading to bust up the main arena. But I say what I have to say without having to go to writing essays to never ending useless information. But to answer your question, YES I was around in those days, but the problem was not the birds attacking the tanks, but rather the lack of cover to hide them in. I would how ever suggest if your going to attack people you do more then just babble on. Show me the proof that the plane will doom the game and it's vehicles more then any other plane in the plane set. Enough said, now say what you will, I have said mine. If it ever got into the game only time will tell if it ever would doom the game. So flame away I don't care, but until I see facts, it's just meaningless dribble.
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Man the thing is EVERYONE knows the wheel pants on the 87 are indestructible! Just picture it people skimming the tops of tanks and ripping the turrets off. Mayhem man!
Sorry couldn't resist
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Originally posted by 53gunner
Man the thing is EVERYONE knows the wheel pants on the 87 are indestructible! Just picture it people skimming the tops of tanks and ripping the turrets off. Mayhem man!
Sorry couldn't resist
sounds like WW2OL when it first launched and you could take a Ju87 down a road at 5ft of the deck and use your landing gear to knock over tanks and trucks. Good times.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
sounds like WW2OL when it first launched and you could take a Ju87 down a road at 5ft of the deck and use your landing gear to knock over tanks and trucks. Good times.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
LOL....agh...ackh..ackh...ROF LMAO!
Good thing I never went near that "sim"
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Originally posted by Lusche
Not that I won't support your wish... but it's not true we don't have another choice to the same old Il2 right now:
Hurricane IID with even bigger guns than a Ju87G ;)
Not sure how I missed this thread.
Lusche, were the stuka's 37 mm high velocity?
I believe the hurri's 40 mm were relatively low.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Not sure how I missed this thread.
Lusche, were the stuka's 37 mm high velocity?
I believe the hurri's 40 mm were relatively low.
Bronk
You are right.
See Tony Williams comparison of WW2 airborne anti-tank gun:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
But despite having somewhat lower performance, the 40mm cannons can still nail every tank we have in game.
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Originally posted by USRanger
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3893/urscreenor2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Man, I want this!
yes i agree it ould be a great tank and shi killer i found a video on youtube that you guys might want to see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg
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WANT!
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I think it'd at least help bring the stuka out of hanger queen status.
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I agree stuka should get the AT rounds on one condition.
The mossie gets fixed and the 57mm Tse Tse cannon package!!!
Bruv
~S~
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After watching that video Bosco posted, we gotta have it! Listen to the sound of them suckers! Look at the wallop they put out! I'm in love.:cool:
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I know that video is amazing i couldint belive it when i found it the sound of that cannon is ubelivable and did you see how he missed the first shot every time iguess they must track
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I would like to see a varient of the JU-87 G1 Stuka, or at least give us a choice of carrying the twin 37mm BK 3.7
This is a cool idea. Go tank busting in a Stuka as it was done on the Easter front.
+1