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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: toonces3 on June 24, 2007, 01:01:25 PM

Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: toonces3 on June 24, 2007, 01:01:25 PM
The other night, I saw Widewing land like 4 kills in an IL2, and I thought, "well, that's Widewing, he's pretty good..."

But last night (Sat) I saw guys landing IL2 kills left and right.  I even saw Jaxxo land some kills in one, and I'm pretty sure he was dogfighting because he was fighting at A48 most of the night where I was I think.

I upped an Il2 for the first time Fri to go looking for some GV's and I couldn't do a thing in it.  Horrible maneuvering, can't see anything at all out of the cockpit, can't climb for crap...a seemingly impossible plane to do a thing in.
Thankfully I was able to get it back on deck and take up something more sensible.

What's the dealy-o gents?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: ghi on June 24, 2007, 01:08:10 PM
jaxxo landed only proxis and kill steals
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Fulmar on June 24, 2007, 01:09:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
jaxxo landed only proxis and kill steals
:rofl
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Furball on June 24, 2007, 01:20:22 PM
Jaxxo can land? :confused:
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Nilsen on June 24, 2007, 01:22:13 PM
Ive noticed alot of IL2 pilots too. Some of them are really good in it, but far too many use it as a HO tank.
Title: The IL2
Post by: TalonX on June 24, 2007, 02:03:45 PM
I went for months before my first kill.  GV's are easy....fly and bomb from F3 position.

Use F3 to maneuver for a gun solution, then switch to F1, fire away.   Dead GV's.

I find a fair number of decent air to air pilots in the IL2.  I am not one of them.  The favorite maneuver of these pilots is to let you overshoot, then pull up on your six and take a (sometimes long) cannon shot...  boom, you are dead.
The counter to the air to air is to keep your speed and peck them to death.  They take  a lot, but a stream of cannon through the cockpit kills them quickly.

Title: Re: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Sweet2th on June 24, 2007, 02:27:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
The other night, I saw Widewing land like 4 kills in an IL2, and I thought, "well, that's Widewing, he's pretty good..."

But last night (Sat) I saw guys landing IL2 kills left and right.  I even saw Jaxxo land some kills in one, and I'm pretty sure he was dogfighting because he was fighting at A48 most of the night where I was I think.

I upped an Il2 for the first time Fri to go looking for some GV's and I couldn't do a thing in it.  Horrible maneuvering, can't see anything at all out of the cockpit, can't climb for crap...a seemingly impossible plane to do a thing in.
Thankfully I was able to get it back on deck and take up something more sensible.

What's the dealy-o gents?


There are other planes besides the La-7, Spit MKXVI, Hurri MKII-C to play in.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: TwinBoom on June 24, 2007, 02:32:07 PM
summer time brings in squeakers with goals of vulching and the il2 is the vulcher killer...simple math
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Lusche on June 24, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
Don't forget that some people do actually use the Il-2 in it's intended role: They do attack ground vehicles.

A skilled pilot can rack up quite a amount of GV kills that  way. Last night I saw HC43S flying some support missions near VBases and landing a lot of kills.

And at least 95% of my own kills in Il-2 are ground vehicles.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Kev367th on June 24, 2007, 03:16:47 PM
IL-2's are great for cap busting.

Can usually get off the runway in situations another plane wouldn't.

Once up, forcing the overshoot is easy, then pop them in the butt.
Failing that it's amazing how many people will try to HO an IL-2 lol.

Plus with the latest crop of FH killing, IL-2s are a good 'bomber' option to choose.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Widewing on June 24, 2007, 03:20:29 PM
This tour I have somewhere between 35 and 40 kills air to air flying the IL-2, with no losses other than colliding with a fighter I had already shot the tail off of.

Typically, the IL-2 is durable and packs a tremendous wallop. It turns very well as long as you have E to burn. A good pilot in an IL-2 is very dangerous. Many guys have not taken it seriously and paid for that neglect. The ultimate secret to being successful flying the IL-2 is E management.

The IL-2 is slow to roll, but this can be greatly improved with some rudder. It has strong elevators, however.

Nonetheless, the IL-2 is heavy and under-powered. Thus, if you find yourself dealing with an aggressive Stormovik, your best option is to take the engagement vertical. Not just a simple zoom climb. That will get you killed if the IL-2 has even remotely equal E. I mean maneuver nose high, sucking the E out of the IL-2, until he cannot do anything but get the nose down to recover some speed. That is when the IL-2 is vulnerable. Nevertheless, you have to understand that the IL-2 will shrug off snaps shots of machine gun ammo. You will have to hit it several times. So, don't blow the E you've gained looking for the one-shot kill. You probably won't get it, even with Hispanos. IL-2s can sometimes absorb two or even three hits from Osties....

The other day I was chasing a formation of low Ju 88s attacking a CV. I pulled in behind and double-checked my tail. A P-51 was diving in... I then got a check 6 from another pilot... I thought, "The hell with it, he can't hurt me", and began hosing the 88s. As first one than another Ju 88 exploded, my IL-2 was hit by fire from the P-51. He blew by, and I pulled up the nose and fired. Some hits sprites appeared and a flap or aileron came off. A split second later a 5" gun vaporized him. My damage? A few holes and the rear MG was knocked out... It's dead weight to me anyway.

That sortie I landed 7 kills, (and 3 assists). Two M3s, two Ju 88s, a Dora, a Niki and a Spit16.

Against ground vehicles, the IL-2 can kill anything short of a Tiger with guns only. I've done it many times. It takes a long concentrated burst of gunfire, but I've exploded M4s and Panzers with just the 23mm cannons. T-34s prove tougher, requiring about 200 cannon rounds. M3s and M16s need only a couple of hits. M8s, just a few more. I'll kill jeeps using only the 7.62mm MGs. Bombs only add to the carnage.  

I enjoy dogfighting in bombers. I have air to air kills in the SBD and Ju 87 this tour. I'll fly the  A-20, Boston and TBM as fighters too. I enjoy the challenge.

So, if you see an IL-2 stooging around up between 3,000 and 5,000 feet, avoid it. He's hoping that you will attack him. ;)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Kev367th on June 24, 2007, 03:25:10 PM
You can track a Tiger with an IL-2 Widewing.

Try 2 or 3 passes, concentrate on one sides track.
Title: Re: The IL2
Post by: Serenity on June 24, 2007, 04:48:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TalonX
They take  a lot, but a stream of cannon through the cockpit kills them quickly.



I killed 2 or 3 iL-2s on the deck last night in my P-47. Easiest thing ive ever done. They took MAYBE a 2-second burst to the wing and they were down. HO or a six shot to the fuselage isnt gonna do ANYTHING but all my shots were to the wing root and they feel from the sky instantly.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: hubsonfire on June 24, 2007, 05:05:31 PM
The Il is an excellent base defender, and with 25% gas is capable of dealing with your average hordemonkeys in short order. It won't handily outturn spits or zekes on the deck, but it can really wreak havoc on those who underestimate it.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Vulcan on June 24, 2007, 05:27:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TwinBoom
summer time brings in squeakers with goals of vulching and the il2 is the vulcher killer...simple math


True dat. Last night a rook CV was hanging off a base. There were hordes of zekes trying to vulch. It was like swatting flies.

BTW twinboom. Still think cherry pickers are people co-alt with you?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: wooley on June 24, 2007, 06:27:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
...but far too many use it as a HO tank.


Nilsen, if I'm in an IL2, I'm not going to outrun you and I'm not going to out-turn you. But almost certainly I'll out-gun you and in all probability absorb more damage. Thus, the ho becomes a valid tactic. 9 times out of 10, the IL2 will win.

If you're in a fighter and get shot in the face by an IL2, you're the pilot that made a bad choice. The other guy was flying to his aircraft's strengths.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: E25280 on June 24, 2007, 07:51:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Ive noticed alot of IL2 pilots too. Some of them are really good in it, but far too many use it as a HO tank.
Is there a problem with that?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Citabria on June 24, 2007, 09:16:25 PM
disable external views in il2 and watch most of these L337 sturmovikdweebskovich's get shot down never seeing what hit them and miss all there 90 degree below the nose deflection shots.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: halcyon on June 24, 2007, 09:29:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Jaxxo can land? :confused:


Jaxxo can fly?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Stoney74 on June 25, 2007, 01:28:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wooley
...Thus, the ho becomes a valid tactic... If you're in a fighter and get shot in the face by an IL2, you're the pilot that made a bad choice. The other guy was flying to his aircraft's strengths.


So, by this reasoning, if you're in a dual against a plane with superior firepower, just point the nose and shoot?  I relish dropping in behind IL-2's that are flying flak towers intent on doing nothing but shooting people in the face.  The IL-2 is tailor made for forcing overshoots as its takes lots of punishment and can deal out a heavy snapshot after the bad guy flashes by.  Running around HO-ing folks in it is not "flying it to its strengths".  Anybody can up a jousting machine.  Not many can actually "fly" them and get kills.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Larry on June 25, 2007, 01:52:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
So, by this reasoning, if you're in a dual against a plane with superior firepower, just point the nose and shoot?  I relish dropping in behind IL-2's that are flying flak towers intent on doing nothing but shooting people in the face.  The IL-2 is tailor made for forcing overshoots as its takes lots of punishment and can deal out a heavy snapshot after the bad guy flashes by.  Running around HO-ing folks in it is not "flying it to its strengths".  Anybody can up a jousting machine.  Not many can actually "fly" them and get kills.


When FHs are down and you roll a IL2 thats what you do is HO. It is not a fighter it is a bomber/attcker. He wasnt talking about geting in a duel with a fighter and just going for HOs. He was talking about uping from a caped base with a sea of red around you and HOing the ones that try. You cant "fly" an Il2. Its slow and cant turn for ****. Its "strenghts" are heavy armor and great cannons. So yes HOing is "flying it to its strengths" when you take and give more dammage.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: hubsonfire on June 25, 2007, 02:11:05 AM
Agreed. If you're flying an Il-2 in the MAs, you're either eccentric (like Widewing), or you're trying to send as many hordemonkey vulchtards to the tower as is possible in the time it takes them to finally realize you're wheels up and kill you (like most of the rest of us).

You could also be trying to kill GVs, but there's no real secret to flying straight and shooting, or pressing B and pulling up.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: toonces3 on June 25, 2007, 10:33:00 AM
If I hadn't seen the kills landed with my own eyes, I'd have called you all a bunch of liars and scoundrels to boot.  I just can't believe anyone has ever landed an air-air kill in that death trap.

Maybe I just upped it after a night of flying the Spit 16 and the shock was too abrupt.  Maybe I had too much gas, too much ord.  I dunno.  But hats off to you guys landing kills man.  

I think, though, I'll stick with the Jug for now.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: chaingun on June 25, 2007, 10:37:11 AM
i would pawn you guys, in il2 :P try me most people blow it off as a ez kill, then you find yourself in tower saying wtf?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: chaingun on June 25, 2007, 10:40:45 AM
oh by the way, most il2 kills air to air ive landed is 7, yes air to air not ho to air, 90% of the time i have a gunner w/ me, VILKAS is my gunner ask him or my fellow countryman, f3 is not for me either by the way
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Yknurd on June 25, 2007, 12:44:18 PM
How funny!

I was reading this post and wondering who was the arrogant little person who always talked about owning everyone in the IL2.

At the time his name escaped me.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: bj229r on June 25, 2007, 12:50:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
How funny!

I was reading this post and wondering who was the arrogant little person who always talked about owning everyone in the IL2.

At the time his name escaped me.

He's not at all arrogant about it, but Ghi is by far the best:aok


(When I see an IL2 in area, I keep an eye on it at all times, as they turn 180 quick as you can blink your eyes, and a spray shot from 900 yards only needs ONE ping to put you in tower)
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Widewing on June 25, 2007, 06:37:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
If I hadn't seen the kills landed with my own eyes, I'd have called you all a bunch of liars and scoundrels to boot.  I just can't believe anyone has ever landed an air-air kill in that death trap.


Landed 11 kills last night. 6 GVs, 4 fighters and a B-24. No rearms....

Then landed 5 more, and finally 4 more. Totaled 20 kills in 3 sorties, 4 assists, no losses. About equally divided between aircraft and vehicles. Defending A7 on the NDIsles map. Most kills resulted from shooting an enemy off of a friendly fighter's six, or beating them on the reverse off the merge. You almost always start out at a tactical disadvantage. So, you manage your E and work at equalizing E states. Under that circumstance, the IL-2 is very dangerous.

The IL-2 is not a death trap, but it does require some thought and planning. Maybe next week, I'll fly the SBD instead.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Solar10 on June 25, 2007, 06:48:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Landed 11 kills last night. 6 GVs, 4 fighters and a B-24. No rearms....

Then landed 5 more, and finally 4 more. Totaled 20 kills in 3 sorties, 4 assists, no losses. About equally divided between aircraft and vehicles. Defending A7 on the NDIsles map. Most kills resulted from shooting an enemy off of a friendly fighter's six, or beating them on the reverse off the merge. You almost always start out at a tactical disadvantage. So, you manage your E and work at equalizing E states. Under that circumstance, the IL-2 is very dangerous.

The IL-2 is not a death trap, but it does require some thought and planning. Maybe next week, I'll fly the SBD instead.

My regards,

Widewing


Widewing, please fly a goon and give us all a chance.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: jaxxo on June 25, 2007, 11:33:48 PM
aww u bastges    
 

I aer the bset! that othr dude is GhiTarded :D


def in my top 5 fav planes...take the exterior view away and give me someone willing to gun in that peashooter :)


would def like to see some more variants though
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Stoney74 on June 26, 2007, 12:01:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Solar10
Widewing, please fly a goon and give us all a chance.


He'd run us into trees and land 8 proxies...
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: toonces3 on June 26, 2007, 01:51:01 AM
what did i do, start a daggone trend?

more Il2's tonite!  yes, more!  landing kills!  

what has AH2 come to exactly?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: F1Bomber on June 26, 2007, 05:40:33 AM
Citabria your suggestion is laughable at best.

I only fly the Il2 online, its the only thing that is left un-touched in this game that is still fun. Removing or limiting bombers even more is the fastest way to remove peoples enjoyment out of the game.

Current score stats:
ID:NoYou

Il2 kills: 51
Deaths: 17
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on June 26, 2007, 02:59:32 PM
Back when i used to play AH the Il2 was my favorite plane to take up during a vulch or base defense scenario. it is very dangerous.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Widewing on June 26, 2007, 06:52:53 PM
Last evening I flew but one IL-2 sortie. Popped a Ki-84 and a Seafire. I switched to a Tiffie to break up a CV horde, and then to a Yak-9T. Finally, I switched to and Bf 110G-2 to end the night. Had fun... Found myself in an HO on a C-hog with the Tiffie (I won that one, barely). I saw several IL-2s working over GVs, so I joined to slaughter with the 110 for a bit. Was an entertaining evening.

IL-2s are fun aircraft, capable of handing out serious abuse to anyone who underestimates them.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: bj229r on June 26, 2007, 09:13:18 PM
But, as Fester points out, wouldnt be NEAR as fun sans F3:(
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Spikes on June 26, 2007, 09:32:48 PM
<---landed 15 in one :D I love defending in it. (No rearms BTW)
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Widewing on June 26, 2007, 10:55:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
But, as Fester points out, wouldnt be NEAR as fun sans F3:(


Sure, it would be nearly blind aft of its 3/9 line. That is why the F3 option exists, simulating the vision of a crew member. However, I believe that when the pilot uses the F3 view, his forward guns (and ordnance) should be disabled. This would force pilots back into the cockpit to shoot, bomb or fire rockets.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Sweet2th on June 27, 2007, 07:50:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Sure, it would be nearly blind aft of its 3/9 line. That is why the F3 option exists, simulating the vision of a crew member. However, I believe that when the pilot uses the F3 view, his forward guns (and ordnance) should be disabled. This would force pilots back into the cockpit to shoot, bomb or fire rockets.

My regards,

Widewing


You drop bombs from the F3 View?I mainly just use F3 for manuvering.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Goat1 on June 27, 2007, 08:59:28 AM
After readinf this thread a couple of days ago, I decided to give the IL2 a try, got fried every time, no kills just an easy target.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: toonces3 on June 27, 2007, 10:26:29 AM
I saw that SpikesX.

I was gonna throw you a WTFG on 200, but I was sort of engaged at the time and couldn't type.

So here it is here instead-

WTFG SpikesX!  

Goat1- that was pretty much my experience as well.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Yeager on June 27, 2007, 10:31:02 AM
couple of thoughts and observations:
Disable F3 for IL2, and do not allow any plane to take on less than 50% fuel in any of the main arenas.

I have shot tails and wings off of IL2s and watched as players gently floated down and exited with a ditch.  Something in that FM is queer.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: hubsonfire on June 27, 2007, 10:53:50 AM
Why just 50%? Why not maximum fuel in everything?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Goat1 on June 27, 2007, 12:27:42 PM
How is F3 disabled?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: bj229r on June 27, 2007, 01:11:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Goat1
After readinf this thread a couple of days ago, I decided to give the IL2 a try, got fried every time, no kills just an easy target.


Watch Ghi or Widewing  ...there are a few others whose names don't come to mind at moment--they NEVER go vertical, always stay near deck--harder to get a sustained burst into one that way---and if ya DONT kill it with that burst, he can put his nose on ya and open up long before ya are out of his kill envelope.

Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Widewing on June 27, 2007, 05:23:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
You drop bombs from the F3 View?I mainly just use F3 for manuvering.


I don't, but you can shoot guns rockets and drop bombs from the F3 view. Gunsight is better for all, but some guys fire from F3 in pray-and-spray mode. Seen it a few times and heard pilots talk about it as well.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: jaxxo on June 27, 2007, 11:13:24 PM
that f3 is no spray and pray mode...you can easily walk in tracers while getting a whole view of which way the plane is goin..i know most havent practiced enuff to do this but it aint too hard
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: hubsonfire on June 27, 2007, 11:28:19 PM
aka spray and pray, you tool.
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: Kev367th on June 28, 2007, 03:06:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
couple of thoughts and observations:
Disable F3 for IL2, and do not allow any plane to take on less than 50% fuel in any of the main arenas.

I have shot tails and wings off of IL2s and watched as players gently floated down and exited with a ditch.  Something in that FM is queer.


F3 simulates the gunner being able to look around, same as buff gunners.

Why 50%?
You going to apply that to ALL planes?
Or how about no more 25%/50%/75% fuel plus DT's, its ALWAYS 100% fuel with DT's?
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: ColKLink on June 28, 2007, 06:46:14 AM
some cat in a il-2 raped my 190 the other day, i just knew chaingun had switched sides, never seen him,(my s/a sucks) in the a.m. Yep the il-2 can be very dangerous with the likes of hub-chaingun, those type of cats at the wheel. And a half _prettythang busrt wont kill em either.  tough rooski plane.:confused:
Title: What's with all the kills in the IL2 lately?
Post by: bj229r on June 28, 2007, 08:54:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
F3 simulates the gunner being able to look around, same as buff gunners.

Why 50%?
You going to apply that to ALL planes?
Or how about no more 25%/50%/75% fuel plus DT's, its ALWAYS 100% fuel with DT's?


I guess the point IS, that the IL2 is a dog fighter with external views. However, it is primarily a last-ditch, base defense plane. (Or first ditch, depending on who is flyin). IT infuriates me gettin nailed by one of those things hanging on his prop sprayin cannons 1000 yards, BUT, if those things are up in force, it's because the FH's are down, the base is under vulch, and we are tellin em they cant even have THAT......