Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on June 26, 2007, 02:22:20 AM
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(http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2007/06/23/05/372-153804-123249.standalone.prod_affiliate.58.jpg)
Local cultish neochristian church made lots of local news with their new billboard. Local buzz is that FOX News Channel has picked up the story. I predict O'Reilly.
This is just the steppingstone and free publicity that Allen Bates needs to launch his televangelist dream of worldwide domination.
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WTF did you do? Eat some bad possum, or is is just a hormonal imbalance?
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Watch FOX News Channel (like that's gonna be hard for most of you) and you'll see the story and Allen. The guy is a Bob Tilton wannabe.
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Local cultish neochristian church made lots of local news with their new billboard.
cultish neochristian church......ok....care to explain that one? :D
A brief look at their website doesn't reveal anything really out of whack with Biblical teachings.
This is just the steppingstone and free publicity that Allen Bates needs to launch his televangelist dream of worldwide domination.
huh?
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Originally posted by rpm
Watch FOX News Channel (like that's gonna be hard for most of you) and you'll see the story and Allen. The guy is a Bob Tilton wannabe.
Now that Kiran is on CNN, I don't watch Fox much.
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Originally posted by Elfie
cultish neochristian church......ok....care to explain that one? :D
They do not belong to any organized denomination or answer to any higher authority (other than, well you know). The best I can describe them is they are something between Jehovah's Witnesses and Benny Hinn.
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Originally posted by rpm
They do not belong to any organized denomination or answer to any higher authority (other than, well you know). The best I can describe them is they are something between Jehovah's Witnesses and Benny Hinn.
Not all churches belong to an organized denomination. That in and of itself does not make them radical or as you put it....cultish neochristian.
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Come observe them for a few weeks. They are on the fringe.
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Originally posted by rpm
Come observe them for a few weeks. They are on the fringe.
Are they bothering any one? If not, why not just leave them be? This is America after all and so far, we do still have Freedom of Religion. ;)
Oh yeah.....btw....I still owe you a couple beatings in the arenas. I'm waiting on a new joystick. I should have it this next weekend. My current X-52 is messed up . The twisty feature is what I use for rudder control and the rudder is sticking in the on position which makes it very difficult to fly and aim. :D
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Elfie, all I did was say look for the story on FOX News and give you some background. Did I ever say they were not free to practice what they believe? This is America (well, at least for the time being) and they can worship away to their hearts content.
Allen Bates is very media savy and this is the first in a series of Satan endorsed messages.
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can't wait for rpms next enlightened post
LOL
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"cultish neochristian church "
:noid +:noid =neo:noid
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
WTF did you do? Eat some bad possum, or is is just a hormonal imbalance?
that is funny
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Originally posted by rpm
Elfie, all I did was say look for the story on FOX News and give you some background. Did I ever say they were not free to practice what they believe? This is America (well, at least for the time being) and they can worship away to their hearts content.
Allen Bates is very media savy and this is the first in a series of Satan endorsed messages.
Sorry for the really late reply on this one. I completely forgot about this thread. :)
The message isn't what you think it is rpm. Those who believe in the Bible also believe that Satan hates God. After all, God tossed Satan from Heaven. Satan hates the Church because it teaches the word of God and teaching folks the word of God keeps them from Satan's evil clutches.
I think they could have worded that sign much better than they did. I know what they mean, but others who don't go to church won't know that.
I've read their church doctrine at their website and I don't think we have a bunch of devil worshipers on the loose there. ;)
As far as your question goes, no you didn't say they weren't free to worship as they choose, yet your initial post came across as having a lot of angst over this sign. (At least that's how I perceived it, my apologies it that wasn't the case.) That's why I made the comment that I did.
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Elfie, you're trying to make an arguement here where there isn't one. The idea isn't even original. They ripped it off from some other televangelist. Tell ya what, you want to defend this guy go Google Robert Tilton, that's a good comparison. Read a bit and then tell me these are men of God. McChurches are not my idea of religion, but feel free to attend if you wish.
BTW, it was on Paul Harvey this week.
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Wasn't the point of your original post to evoke an argument? I think the sign is kinda clever..no idea if they ripped off the idea somewhere
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No, it wasn't. I was expecting everyone to see the story on FOX News. But as usual around here it was shoot the messenger instead of focusing on the story. That's OK, your grandmothers will soon be sending VFC their life savings because Allen says it makes Jesus happy and their family safe.
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So, um messenger, what exactly is your message?
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rofl that church in decatur is full of.. well i wouldn't say whackos, but they take evangelicalism to the extreme. first time i saw the billboard i had to do a double take and almost swerved right into the church parking lot oddly enough.
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Originally posted by majic
So, um messenger, what exactly is your message?
That a local McChurch is about to be on FOX News.
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Originally posted by rpm
Elfie, you're trying to make an arguement here where there isn't one. The idea isn't even original. They ripped it off from some other televangelist. Tell ya what, you want to defend this guy go Google Robert Tilton, that's a good comparison. Read a bit and then tell me these are men of God. McChurches are not my idea of religion, but feel free to attend if you wish.
BTW, it was on Paul Harvey this week.
I did google Robert Tilton earlier, I fail to see how this church is like him. Robert Tilton had a large ministry and he was ripping folks off.
I also googled for Victory Family Church and didn't find anything even remotely similar to Robert Tilton.
Your original post includes a picture of the sign, you call them *cultist neochristians* and make a comment about world wide domination. I've checked what I can online, and I'm just not seeing any smoke, much less any fire.
To me, they appear to be a normal christian church that follows Biblical teachings. I guess I just don't get the point of your original post based on my own online research. /shrug
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Originally posted by rpm
No, it wasn't. I was expecting everyone to see the story on FOX News. But as usual around here it was shoot the messenger instead of focusing on the story. That's OK, your grandmothers will soon be sending VFC their life savings because Allen says it makes Jesus happy and their family safe.
Did FOX news even have a segment on this church? (My google attempts didn't yield any results for FOX news). Your original post says *local buzz* (aka rumor) that Fox was picking up the story.
*edit* Just went to FOX news online and did a search there for Victory Family Church and another for Allen Bates. No hits in regards to this Church or Pastor. Maybe this Church just isn't newsworthy. :)
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Elfie, since you doubt MY word thought I'd give you a local linky (http://skattershooting.blogspot.com/2007/06/national-news-on-devil-hatin-on-decatur.html) where I read the FOX bit and let you see what some other locals are saying. Of course you probably know better than us because you are 1200 miles away from VFC and are clued into what is going on here.
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:confused:
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Originally posted by rpm
Elfie, since you doubt MY word thought I'd give you a local linky (http://skattershooting.blogspot.com/2007/06/national-news-on-devil-hatin-on-decatur.html) where I read the FOX bit and let you see what some other locals are saying. Of course you probably know better than us because you are 1200 miles away from VFC and are clued into what is going on here.
I went to your link. It says: (It's someone's blog too btw)
Just got a really good tip that Fox News (the national one) will be running with the "I Hate Victory Family Church - The Devil" story.
The local affiliate (Fox 4 . . . . News) ran the story yesterday so maybe we'll see it on the flagship network for all things conservative. The No Spin Zone perhaps?
Edit: Still waiting to see it on Fox, but it has become an official AP story which means it will be all over the country.
Edit: This Google news search I created should catch all the stories.
Two links inside that little tidbit that is chock full of information. :rolleyes:
First one I already saw when doing my searches says this:
North Texas church uses Satan billboard
Associated Press - June 26, 2007 9:45 AM ET
DECATUR, Texas (AP) - A North Texas church is the source of a billboard that features an attention-grabbing reference -- to Satan.
Victory Family Church is in Decatur, about 35 miles northwest of Fort Worth.
The sign just down the road from the church says, quote: "I Hate Victory Family Church -- Satan."
The sign also includes the church's Web site.
Pastor Chris Bates says the billboard is mean to get people's attention.
Bates also says, quote: "We know the devil's not on our side."
The billboard is at the intersection of US Highways 380 and 287.
On the Net:
http://www.victoryfamilychurch.net
Information from KAUZ-TV & Fort Worth Star-Telegram:
http://www.kauz.com & http://www.star-telegram.com
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Second one is for a google news search which just happens to come up empty. :O
I read all the comments on the blog. It degenerates rather quickly into folks arguing about religion.
I still fail to see where this particular church is heinous in any way.
*edit* What is so bad about this church and pastor? Could you please spell it out for me because I am just not getting it. I have done research online, followed your links and I still don't see the proverbial smoking gun.
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You fail to see lots of things since you are in Denver and VFC is in Texas. But at least now you see the link where I picked up the story and can quit pretending these aren't televangelists wannabes.
Gosh, it's a blog and I gave you the link! How ever will I hide the fact it's a blog!!! (BTW, that blog run by our former District Attorney has a higher viewership than all the local papers combined.):noid
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I just went to both news sites linked in the AP story. The first one, kauz.com had nothing on VFC. The second one, star-telegram.com had 2 news articles, neither had any negative comments about the church.
http://www.star-telegram.com/228/story/146325.html
http://www.star-telegram.com/448/story/149490.html
I saw the second one when doing my searches earlier, the first one was new.
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But the comments by the locals about the church must be dismissed because... why is that again? I guess jhookt is part of my conspiracy as well.:noid :noid
Ya know what? Nevermind. I'm sure every church in America is preaching the proper stuff.
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:rofl
How are they televangelist wannabes? There is nothing inherently wrong with television evangelists. Sure, some are like Jim Baker and what he did WAS wrong. That doesn't make all of them bad. :)
You still haven't shown how this church is *bad* in any way except with your own personal opinions.
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Originally posted by rpm
But the comments by the locals about the church must be dismissed because... why is that again? I guess jhookt is part of my conspiracy as well.:noid :noid
What comments about the church or the sign are bad? Can you point them out please?
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Where's Seagoon when ya need him? I'd like to hear his opinion on money hungry McChurches.
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Originally posted by rpm
Where's Seagoon when ya need him? I'd like to hear his opinion on money hungry McChurches.
Ok, can you show me where these folks are money hungry? Anything.....
The Bible does tell us to tithe, a tithe is 10% of our income. If this church is preaching to tithe, they are just teaching a Biblical prinicple.
I'm not sure if that's what you are talking about, I am reaching here trying to understand. :)
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Anonymous said...
COPELAND may have a little Wise County competition...
8:34 PM
Anonymous said...
Could become a battle of the churchs. Copeland can get a billboard that says "I Hate Copeland Ministries Even More Than Family Victory Church."
SATAN
or for variation:
LUCIFER
10:33 PM
There's a couple. That's Kenneth Copeland (http://www.kcm.org/) they are refering to. He has a compound (literally) in the southern part of the county on an old airforce training base. He's a real doozy. VFC wants a slice of that pie.
These McChurchs (VFC is one) are more devoted to corporate moneymaking than they are to God. They are more facade than substance, using God to make a buck. It's not about faith, it's about entertainment and feelgood. The leaders are CEO's, not priests.
That's what bothers me about them. But sooner or later these men of the cloth will have to face God and answer him for their actions.
In the meantime feel free to attend, watch the bigscreen simulcast, donate, enjoy the contemporary music and don't forget to stop by the giftshop on the way out. We have some really cool bumper stickers, hats and t-shirts this week!
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Hi RPM,
Ok, against my better judgment, I'll give you as objective an assessment as I can - I'm not sure it will be worth much.
First the caveats; until I read your post I had never heard of "Victory Family Church." Since then, I've been to their website and read all their links, listened to one sermon, pt. 1 of "The Power to Get Wealth" and done a google search (including google news) on the Senior Pastor and the church. Almost every hit simply refers to their eye-catching sign which apparently has everyone in a tizzy.
The church itself is as you guessed is independent, in terms of their theology they are generally Charismatic, possibly Pentecostal, they are also into "Word of Faith" or "Name it and Claim it" and "Health and Wealth" preaching, although they are far from being the worst examples I've seen. The message I heard made all the typical word of faith exegetical leaps from Israel and the patriarch's material prosperity to faith supposedly being the infallible key to our own and assured us that it was God's will that we all be prosperous, apparently ignoring the fact that Christ and His Apostles were far from prosperous, that Christ promised us tribulation and not riches in this world, that we are warned time and time again not to make mammon our goal, that being rich makes it harder to get into the kingdom and draws our hearts away from Christ and consumes us with worldly cares, that earthly riches are only so much worthless dust in the end, and even that "not many" of the mighty and powerful of this world are called and that in Christian history, with a few notable exceptions, the majority of the Christian "giants of the faith" have been either poor (like John Bunyan) or of moderate means (like Jonathan Edwards). For that matter, if this theology is right, I've been going in the wrong direction since 1997, seeing as our income has been more than cut in half since going to seminary and entering the pastorate (I can think of several other men who could say essentially the same thing.)
Anyway, unless the message I heard was an aberration (which I doubt considering there were 3 others with the same title, there is very little gospel preaching, and a lot of telling people what they want to hear about getting what they want and meeting their "felt needs" (which is essentially the same thing Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, etc. have built their careers on).
That said, RPM, I think you could probably find 100s of churches just like this one in the state of Texas alone, and many of them far, far, worse. In any event, there is no "world dominion" threat there. Personally, I think its much ado about nothing. Seems to me, they came up with a gimmicky sign that made it to AP and are currently enjoying their 15 minutes in a relatively low-power spotlight. I may be missing it, but I don't see what the big deal is, yes the Christian world is full of men seeking mammon, but they don't learn that from Christ, they bring that in with them from the world. One only needs to think back to the days of the S&L rippoffs or ENRON to realize that Texas real-estate, banking, communications, construction, etc. are also full of men madly pursuing mammon to their own destruction as well and that when those men are in charge of a company or a bank they can ruin far more lives, than the few congregants listening to Pastor Bates.
Anyway, thats my .10 cents. Really nothing to see here, move along.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by rpm
There's a couple. That's Kenneth Copeland (http://www.kcm.org/) they are refering to. He has a compound (literally) in the southern part of the county on an old airforce training base. He's a real doozy. VFC wants a slice of that pie.
These McChurchs (VFC is one) are more devoted to corporate moneymaking than they are to God. They are more facade than substance, using God to make a buck. It's not about faith, it's about entertainment and feelgood. The leaders are CEO's, not priests.
That's what bothers me about them. But sooner or later these men of the cloth will have to face God and answer him for their actions.
In the meantime feel free to attend, watch the bigscreen simulcast, donate, enjoy the contemporary music and don't forget to stop by the giftshop on the way out. We have some really cool bumper stickers, hats and t-shirts this week!
This thread wouldn't have gone on nearly as long as it did if you had just said this at the beginning. Thank you, now I actually understand your position. Combined with what Seagoon said, I actually agree with you. :)
I also don't think they are the worst that you can find in a church, but as you said, one day they will face God and He will judge them.
I didn't actually listen to any of the sermons like Seagoon did. With what he said about the sermon, I wouldn't attend this church because I prefer a church that actually teaches the gospel and other Biblical principles.
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Thank you for responding Seagoon. You put it much clearer for the masses than I could.
Elfie, I thought I had done just that. Now that my position has been cleared of God hatin' can we let this thing die already?
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Elfie, I thought I had done just that.
Maybe you did in your own way and I just didn't understand.....but I was trying. ;)
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You have to use theater of the mind when publishing, hence the descriptive narrative.
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These McChurchs (VFC is one) are more devoted to corporate moneymaking than they are to God. They are more facade than substance, using God to make a buck. It's not about faith, it's about entertainment and feelgood. The leaders are CEO's, not priests.
This was sooo much clearer though. (especially the last 2 sentences.) :D
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Fox News is the Republican mouth piece
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Originally posted by Hawco
Fox News is the Republican mouth piece
Like the other options are any better. :rolleyes:
All of the options only tell you what they want you to hear or what they think you should hear.
I would like to see a News source that actually is unbiased and fair. Like that will ever happen....