Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: toonces3 on June 26, 2007, 03:07:04 AM
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Hey all.
A few weeks ago, I got strafed in my chute, in AvA no less, and it pissed me off to the point that I nearly got muted by a mod.
Anyway, I thought that strafing the chute in game was cheese of the biggest order...especially before I discovered .ef.
But besides that, it does raise an ethical question on the order of the HO debate.
I would have never, never believed this, but in WW2, strafing chutes wasn't uncommon. And, being an American, I'd wish I could say it was only the 'bad guys' that did it but that's not the case at all. Repeatedly in my reading/research I've read accounts where U.S. and Jap (and I'm assuming German/Russian) pilots strafed pilots in the chute or on the ground, as well as survivors from ships that were sunk in a bombing attack. In other words, the Vals would sink a DD, and then come back and strafe the liferafts.
For me, I like to ride the chute down a bit. Not necessarily to the deck, but for a min or so...sort of to recage my thoughts and get ready to get back into the fight, or to get another beer, or whatever. Yet, ever since I discovered .ef I don't see the point and will bag out as soon as my chute opens. I don't know why that sux, but it does. I got shot at in my chute the other night, and .ef was the bomb as it got me right out of there. But, it's pretty cool to be in the chute and have the guy that shot you down buzz you at d100- you know?
So, here's the question: do you strafe the chute in game? Is this totally BS or are you cool with it? I guess this is even more extreme than the 'honor' question.
How about real life? I realize this is a cartoon game, but would you strafe your opponent in real life? It's hard to say I think. Maybe in a chivalrous world we all hope we live in you can give and take quarter. Then again, maybe your best friend got shot down in his SBD yesterday, and you're out to get revenge on the first zero or Val you see.
I'm curious what you all think.
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i wont go out of my way to shoot a chute. but if i see one lazily drifting to the deck, i will help them get to the tower. youknow, just in case they are new, and dont realize they can .ef.:D
NOT
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I never shoot at chutes. Its a game, no reason to "kill" the pilot.
I also think its poor sportmanship, and to go a step further, to me it shows the type of character of the person who does this.
To some people winning is what counts, to some people humiliation of the foe is the butter on the bread, and nothing less than latter it is.
Use .ef ;)
Regards,
Matt
[edit]
Dont know about real life. I think it depends on the war you're fighting in. At the beginning I am pretty sure that, at least in the "civilized" hemisphere, soldiership and honor are real and truly believed virtues of the men and women who fight (exceptions of course exist, always).
When the war drags on I can imagine that personal feelings will get stronger, as far as hate, or neutralism. Thats the point where all but the strongest might succomb to kill helpless or already surrendering enemy soldiers, either to vent their anger, or because the just want to end this and get home.
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I expect to get strafed in a chute especially if I am over the enemies town. One time they didn't and I landed in the town. I related to my squadies what buildings needed taken out and what GV's were close and what planes were overhead.
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Originally posted by Viper35
I expect to get strafed in a chute especially if I am over the enemies town. One time they didn't and I landed in the town. I related to my squadies what buildings needed taken out and what GV's were close and what planes were overhead.
There ya go. This guy would have been shot at dawn but I wouldn't wait that long. Get the spy's in the silk.
Same for the map room storker that bails over his dying town.
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Toonces most of the time .ef is disabled in the AvA when you are in a chute. So whenever I see one hanging in there I kill it to help the guy out. Best thing to do in there is ride it into the ground.
On the other hand now that you have a .45 in a chute I say its fair game. I myself have sat on a deacked field and poped people uping with it, sat by a maproom and killed troops, and even sitting a few K away from a base telling squadies whats uping and how high they are. So I say if you dont want to be killed in a chute dont open it.
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Hi,
i only shoot people on the chute, if they ask for, otherwise i would feel bad.
In R/L there was always pilots who shoot to people at the chute, while in britain and germany there was a high grade of sportmans ship among the pilots.
US pilots got the order to shoot at the chutes(specialy of jet pilots) and also Hitler suggested to do so, but Göring was absolut against this and did forbid it(this was probably the only time that Göring went against Hitler will). Though, according to some sources not all pilots followed Görings order and by far not all US pilots did follow their order(otherwise Hartmann would have been dead before the end of war).
Greetings,
Knegel
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Shooting chutes, like vulching, is an art form.
ack-ack
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Chuck Yeager shot chutes as he says " I don't want to have to fight that guy again".
For the game I find it a complete waste of ammo that could be better used on the next plane I run in to.
Hope this helps.
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I used to hate chute shooters, but after i discovered the joy of running around on an enemy field with my .45 popping troops and planes i found out that killing chutes has to be done... and enjoyed :D
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Only time I'll shoot chutes is when they are handing out 6's in a furball, or something to that end.
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I shoot chutes in following cases:
- Enemy bails over own town for a obvious reason.
- Enemy bailed pilots acts as a forward observer for his teammates in tanks at a ground battle near a vehicle field.
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Depends on the situation whether or not I'll shoot a chute or not. If they're away from my base and not an intel threat I will not blast em. Otherwise, open fire.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Hey all.
A few weeks ago, I got strafed in my chute, in AvA no less, and it pissed me off to the point that I nearly got muted by a mod.
Then the strafer did a good job:aok
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I would like to chute shoot someday, but I'm afraid I'll crash into the chute and give the guy a kill. That would be humiliating .:)
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I only choot shutes if the opportunity presents itself.
I think the fine whines on 200 are worth the additional bother.
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Where are the "Fat Drunk Bastards" when ya need them ? ... SOB ? ... Furious ?
I miss the FDBs ... :cry
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the Americans and the Japanese were the biggest chute shooters in WWII. if the object of war is to eliminate your enemy then a combatant in a parachute is fair game.
in this game shooting a bailed player serves no purpose as your opponent gets another free plane in a nanosecond. if your intent is to keep them out of the fight as long as possible leave them in the chute.
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What if my intention is to enjoy the fine whines on 200?
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Why the hell did he do that?!
Here recently I've seen some things that make me cringe at the thought of someone doing something that doesn't sit well with most people. During WW2 several hundred pilots actually killed men in parachutes. To me this is the gravest of dishonors; the man has been removed as a threat, he has no real weapons [maybe a pistol] yet you still insist on killing him. There is no reason for it, and certainly no honor in it, yet some still insist on shooting a man in a chute.
As in any war, there are rules. None official but damn near every pilot follows them just to be fair. Fairness in battle might seem odd to most but in several hundred cases it has happened. I won't list any of them here, but I will give you some general rules to fly by in order to keep all things fair.
1. Never shoot a man in a parachute. He's already given up, is most likely scared, confused, and worried so don't kill him. If he dies in the aircraft then he dies, but never shoot a man in a chute. The only exception to this is if you see a pilot killing people in chutes you may outright kill him for lack of respect. In a flight sim, all you do is get him back in the tower faster. This means if he bails out at 15,000 feet and you kill him, he'll be back up shooting at you in a few minutes. So leaving him in his chute actually helps you by keeping him floating down and not in the cockpit of a fighter.
2. If you see a heavily damaged plane don't attack it. The pilot is trying to find a place to ditch, and also trying to keep his machine in the air so don't kill him for it. The universal sign for a damaged aircraft [or one low on gas] is landing gear being lowered. If you see a plane blowing smoke with the gear down the pilot is trying to survive, and maybe save his machine so he's not going to attack. If he does attack he deserves to be shot down.
3. Aircraft that are trying to land are NOT targets by any definition of the word. Aircraft that are taking off are considered by some [not me] to be fair targets. If a pilot is trying to land leave him alone. He won't try to kill you on a landing approach, so don't go after him when he's low and slow.
4. If you happen across a damaged aircraft flying home, don't fire. Again the pilot is trying to save his life and maybe his machine so don't kill the man. I've actually escorted enemy pilots of damaged aircraft home before, and I've been thanked for it on several occasions. This common courtesy is extended by some pilots, but others just want the kill and shoot first. If you want to be killed outright this is a good way to go, because after word gets back that the aircraft you nailed was damaged there's gonna be hell to pay.
5. Ramming another plane will get you killed by everyone very quickly. Collisions happen in dogfights, and pilots understand this. But to intentionally ram another aircraft is not only a cheap way to gain a kill, it makes you more enemies than you'd ever imagine. I've collided with other aircraft, and on every occasion we understood each other; by the time we'd figured out that we were going to collide we already hit. So don't fly too close in formation, and don't try to get the best angle on a shot when you're very close. You just might hit the guy.
Sorry about that
Yes you heard..err read right. Pilots do apologize to each other after a goof. On one occasion I accidentally fired at a Spitfire just after the pilot bailed, but due to the angle I was at I couldn't see the chute. He screamed over the radio for me to cease firing, so I did. I promptly apologized to him, but he said that until the smoke from his burning aircraft cleared he couldn't see me either. He understood that I was firing on his plane and not him, and that my shots near him were a mistake.
One pilot told me that he'd fired some rockets at an enemy field only to have a pilot yell at him over the radio for almost hitting him just before he started his engine. This again was followed by an apology, which the other pilot understood. Pilots are a very understanding bunch; if someone screws up they can understand. But more often they go along with the old drill-instructor's addage: "I'll tell you anything you want to know once. If I have to tell you twice I'll understand, some things are a little hard to get the first time. If I have to tell you three times I'll shoot you and move on to the next idiot in line".
Bombers are another story altogether. Since bomber guns are controled by "otto" they fire on any enemy plane in range, but there is a way around this. If you see a damaged enemy bomber inform the rest of the pilots on your side about the bomber and not to shoot at it. Then escort the bomber to a neutral area, salute him, and return to base. Bomber pilots don't like getting shot any more than you do, but they like it even less if you blast them when they're damaged and just trying to go home.
Fighter pilots more than understand where you're coming from; they're in your shoes too. If you get damaged find a hole in the fight and get low, extend your landing gear, and set a course home. More often than not other pilots won't shoot you; it's just like seeing a guy in a chute. If you end up ditching try to ditch away from the fight, that way you don't collide with another plane in the area.
One constant problem I see is vulching. This happens when a pilot is trying to take off or land, and some sucker wants an easy kill so he dives in and blows the plane to bits. Not too long ago, I got vulched on landing. You bet I raised merry Hell over the radio, telling that pilot how low a move like that was. He laughed it off, and promptly shot another guy hanging in a chute. He didn't live long after that move.
There are some situations where vulching is acceptable. Not many, but a few. Trying to take a field is the only one worth mentioning. Since you want to take a given field, you CAP it. Meaning you remove all hangars and fire on any enemy air or ground unit present. If an enemy fighter tries to get airborne while under this set of circumstances, kill him before he gets off the ground.
Pilots should have more common sense than to attempt a take off with 15+ fighters roaming over their heads. Some just want to get easy kills, others actually want an honest fight. Instead of trying to get up from a field under siege, try taking off from a near-by field. You'll be able to gain altitude for a dive on the attackers, plus you stand less of a chance of getting vulched. Now, just because vulching happens when taking a field doesn't mean you should do it all the time. Matter of fact, don't do it unless you're actually in a position to make a straffing run down the runway.
Promises my fuzzy, pale...
Are you honestly expecting somebody to abide by this stuff? I hope not. Cause they won't. Firing on chutes, pulling head-ons, vulching, stealing kills, ackstaring, whining when killed, it all happens. What can you do about it? Nothing. The last poor fragger to believe in this stuff was sent whining to his death with a perforated chute in his lap. So don't expect anybody to even try aerial chivalry. Yeah, it's a nice idea, and maybe the arenas would be a better place with more of it. I wouldn't trust anyone to let you head home cause you called "bingo fuel" over channel one though. I would bet money you'll wind up in the tower wondering which dweeb nailed you. And while you're pondering that, watch the debate over just who stole the kill (your death). Between the n00bs, idiots, egomaniacs, and dweeblings, you're lucky you can take off without getting blasted into kibble. It's a ruthless world we fly in; if it can be destroyed then it's a valid target at all times. One (and only) exception is the sheep. Firing on them is a capitol offense!
So before you go and pull something dumb (like posting this on a bbs) remember: if it flies, drives, or floats then it is your duty as a dweeb to kill it. So why did I bother to write all this in the first place? To maybe give you something to think about. Yes, there are some rather kind pilots out there who will go out of their way to make things at least semi-honorable. They'll abide by dueling rules (guns cold merge, 10k, fight is on) or possibly teach you a few maneuvers. But for the most part, you'll get plastered by every single self-important nitwit who thinks they're Robert Shaw's twin. They'll blow you out of your drawers and back into the tower, whether or not you happen to be in a chute. They'll steal your kill and probably get you blown up by flying into your bullet stream, which trips ol killshooter. Nobody cares about you, cause they are all out for themselves. Still, pulling a few of these stunts is a surefire way to get most folks pissed off. In which case, you are the biggest target in town.
Does that mean no one is honorable? Of course not! I've run into pilots who will fry a whiner without mercy, yet they'll let you try to land a damaged plane. Run out of gas/ammo/beer? Hell, some of these guys will actually let you attempt an RTB. Others will say "ok, but once you're up we duel!". One pilot actually said "RTB, pizza" and everyone left his Corsair alone! It was on auto-pilot, completely defenseless, and not one single person fired at it. So you will find honor among thieves. In H2H you're more likely to find someone who is likely to cut people slack. Plus you can get any offending tulips booted out for dishonorable conduct. In the Main Arena it's incredibly rare, but you'll find some honor in a few pilots.
In short:
I found this and thought it was a pretty good read. here is the website if u wanna read more.
http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/index.htm
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Originally posted by Toad
What if my intention is to enjoy the fine whines on 200?
just shoot me down once.
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I see shooting chutes as a way to reduce clutter and improve performance of the game. Plus, if the guy bails he gets better score than if he dies, and we can't have that now can we?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Where are the "Fat Drunk Bastards" when ya need them ? ... SOB ? ... Furious ?
I miss the FDBs ... :cry
Ahmen...
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Originally posted by toonces3
So, here's the question: do you strafe the chute in game?
Yes, if I'm not fighting someone else at the time.
Generally, people bail to maximize their points (you get more points if you bail than if you get turned into a sticky red ball when your plane hits the ground). I have always made a point of doing my part to discourage pointmongering; thus the chute strafing.
You're the first I've come across who enjoys the parachute ride. So, if you wave at me to let me know it's you, I won't spoil the moment!
- oldman
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I wish HT didn't allow the .ef to be used in the chute like it was back in AH 1.
Back then, there was far less chute shooting cause it was painfull for the bailer to float all the way to the ground ... so most rode the plane all the way into the ground.
If you did get a change to shoot a chute ... the chute would be real close to the ground. The bailer wouldn't bail until the last second so as to minimize the time in the silk. For us chute shooters ... it was a challenge to pop them before they hit the ground.
I also, remember guys bailing at 10K plus coming on the "ALL" channel begging to get shot ... those we would let float just until they were almost to the ground ... and then pop them.
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G-A-M-E
Hope that helps you folks that confuse AH with RL in any way.
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Originally posted by Keiler
...no reason to "kill" the pilot.
Chutes give 6 calls... kill them all.
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Do you not eat the cherry on top of the delicious sundae you just ate? Then why do you not shoot chutes?
Your first problem is thinking that you can have an "ethical" debate over HOs or shooting chutes. It's a game, and not even a structured one. Repeat to yourself: This is a game. It's not history. It's not real. It's a game. And damn it's funny to hear that guy whose chute I just popped ***** and moan on the forums!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Just my opinion...
I personally think chute shooting is Chicken SXXX. I refuse to participate in this kind of lame behavior in game. If I got enough hits on someones aircraft to force them out of it... Hey I'm happy.
If you want to argue that .. oh they are just trying to pad their score by not getting killed in the aircraft and they should stay in it to let you get the KILL..... WHAAA!! Dial 1-800-976-WHAA for all your power whining needs.
Just my opinion and I dont expect anybody to follow my thinking. If you want to kill chutes... go for it... I just think you're a woose if you do this and I have no respect for you.
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Originally posted by Keiler
I also think its poor sportmanship, and to go a step further, to me it shows the type of character of the person who does this.
This is funny, sad and laughable all at the same time. I don't shoot chutes in real life, but this is a game where the designer has stated the one of the goals of the game is to piss off the enemy, if shooting a chute does that then the game is working as designed.
Try seperating real life from our little fantasy world and you'll have a better outlook on life and your interactions with humans, IMO.
I'm wondering how shallow your real life relationships could be when you can claim knowledge of ones character purley by his targeting chutes in AH's MA. Griefers, exploiters, spys, stickstirrers and foul speaking PMers maybe, but chute shooters? :rofl
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to me it shows the type of character of the person who does this.
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seek help.
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Originally posted by KayBayRay
Just my opinion...
I personally think chute shooting is Chicken SXXX. I refuse to participate in this kind of lame behavior in game. If I got enough hits on someones aircraft to force them out of it... Hey I'm happy.
If you want to argue that .. oh they are just trying to pad their score by not getting killed in the aircraft and they should stay in it to let you get the KILL..... WHAAA!! Dial 1-800-976-WHAA for all your power whining needs.
Just my opinion and I dont expect anybody to follow my thinking. If you want to kill chutes... go for it... I just think you're a woose if you do this and I have no respect for you.
I think your confused ... the 800 number is for those meat-puppets that go boom while attached to silk ... for they are the ones that whine.
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Well, if you dont have the brains to type .ef and you are just hanging there, I get confused and think that you are asking to be shot :confused:
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No, I am not confused. I don't whine about getting killed if in a chute. If I do bail out I fugure somebody is gona kill me so I end the sortie. If I get biffed, oh well.... I up another bird and go back IN.... It's a GAME.
But my opinion is... if you shoot chutes.. you're a woose.. plain and simple.
:cool:
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Shooting down planes is fine, but I want a kill. If you bail, you're obviously trying to survive, and therefore should be executed.
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Originally posted by KayBayRay
No, I am not confused. I don't whine about getting killed if in a chute. If I do bail out I fugure somebody is gona kill me so I end the sortie. If I get biffed, oh well.... I up another bird and go back IN.... It's a GAME.
But my opinion is... if you shoot chutes.. you're a woose.. plain and simple.
:cool:
If you bailed in the first place, you're an even bigger "woose". :cool:
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When I fly Jap, I shoot chutes. Not because I enjoy it, but because it was standard routine for jap pilots. It's my way of flying 'in-character', and being historically accurate.
Not all Jap pilots did it, but many did. If I could ram bombers when flying Jap, I'd do that too. I only wish there was some way for Aces to allow jap fighters to ram bombers and do suicide attacks on carriers, and other ships. By ramming bombers, I mean actually being able to damage them, unlike aces which allows the ram but gives the bomber all the punch and the fighter nothing.
I would love to re-enact some of the great jap suicide attacks made during the war as a special events scnario.
Years ago, my squad was able to simulate a suicide attack on a carrier by flying zekes carrying a bomb. We would dive on the carrier and release our bomb just before we hit. It was a blast and after many hits, the carrier went down like a rock.
I used to do Ho's in a zeke, as many jap pilots did them. In Aces it comes out historically accurate everytime. THE ZEKE DIES. It got old real quick, so I decided to slightly modify my flying to be almost, historically accurate... :)
Honorable Wabbit-san,
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Where are the FDB's?
It's times like this that I really miss them. Not that I agreed with them but they had such a clear, unvarnished point of view on topics like this.
I miss the fights at "Beer Mountain" too. Now those were battles.
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Originally posted by beau32
To me this is the gravest of dishonors; the man has been removed as a threat, he has no real weapons [maybe a pistol] yet you still insist on killing him. There is no reason for it, and certainly no honor in it, yet some still insist on shooting a man in a chute.
The guy in the chute is only temporarily a non-threat. Once he gets on the ground and in a new airplane he is a threat again and can kill more of your comrades. Better kill him in the chute so he can't kill your buddies the next day. War is Hell.
As for AH, shooting chutes is fun. If you weren't supposed to shoot chutes, then they wouldn't blow up nice and pretty like. And as Toad pointed out, the whines make every round wasted on a chute more than worthwhile.
ack-ack
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I give 6 calls when I bail. If you shoot me in the chute then I come back and find you and try to kill you. Thats what this game is all about. I will up untill all that kill me are down. Takes a while but I love this game.
:cry I try killing more often.
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OMG do some of these people know that this is a game ??
what is the diference between shooting a plane and a chute-apart from it's a smaller target and improves your aim- they are both just mounds of pixels on my monitor.
How can what you do in a game reflect what your character is in real life ? we are in a game killing people for fun, you think after the PC is shut down we go out and do the same in the streets ???
Hello !! reality check in aisle 7 please.
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I think it is wrong to shoot planes, let alone shoots. I mean, this isn't even a real war. anyone who would shoot down my plane, just shows their true character. Also, If we should not shoot chutes because they have no defences, does the same to apply to goon? and what about the jerks who kill the drunks trying to take the town. I say you are all morally corupt, and I would choose not to associate myself with anyone who performs these activities as it can only further degrade the society in which we live in. One moment your town is fine, the next it is a war zone, filled with drunks, pimps, gamblers, drug dealers, and gun slingers.
haha, i love chute threads.
i would right more, but i am off to ponder my sins and figure out how on earth i can become a better person...as clearly by the way i play this game i'm not headed on the right track.
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Originally posted by xbrit
OMG do some of these people know that this is a game ??
what is the diference between shooting a plane and a chute-apart from it's a smaller target and improves your aim- they are both just mounds of pixels on my monitor.
Its all about score. They wont admit it so they bring in honor and bla bla bla bla. Score is the only difference and only if over friendly teritory. Why else bail? To delay the next shortie? This honor thing its just BS by people who think that since they were able to hit enter 3 times, they deserver to keep some points :rofl
Really pathetic
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Shoot em. :aok
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I don't, its a waste of time and ammo. Especially when you don't get a reward :D
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it depends if the person was flying in a way that annoyed the crap out of me, like running then turning back everytime i turn around. I'll kill chutes every time it's over our feild and they don't .ef by the time they hit the ground.
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an nme in his chute may be giving his buddies check 6 calls, or using his downed chute as a way of observing whether a town is down or not, oly takes 1 hit, i say kill em.:aok
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Yes I shoot chutes, well I did before .ef ......... not much opportunity since.
A chute is just about the ONLY thing YAK9U MGs can kill!
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Some people enjoy skydiving, and may not even realize that a cartoon war is going on.
Also a full 45 clip can take out an ack gun so a pilot with a pistol is still a threat in this game.....I say kill them all.
Most people never even open the chute and just .ef, so if they are in a chute....they are up to no good and plotting against my country in a sinister attempt steal Rattfink's sheep.
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Shooting chutes makes my weiner go WING.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
Shooting chutes makes my weiner go WING.
so does a stiff wind.
ack-ack
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If HiTech didn't want us to shoot chutes, then why did they add a sound effect for when it happens? Heck, the sound-pack I have (sorry, I forget which one) generates a satisfying SPLAT!! when you shoot a chute.
If I've just shot down a pilot who fought bravely and skillfully, I won't shoot his chute in the same way I might him on channel 200. In every other case, that guy in the chute is Fair Game. He gets my respect by earning it, not by default.
-Llama
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Chutes are for great for target practice when flying the Yak-9T.
You know you're aim is getting good when you can "pop" a chute with one 37mm round from 600 and out.
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Originally posted by storch
the Americans and the Japanese were the biggest chute shooters in WWII. if the object of war is to eliminate your enemy then a combatant in a parachute is fair game.
in this game shooting a bailed player serves no purpose as your opponent gets another free plane in a nanosecond. if your intent is to keep them out of the fight as long as possible leave them in the chute.
Yeah, those princely Germans didn't have to waste ammo as often the
enraged civilians would kill the guy on the ground.
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Originally posted by Rino
Yeah, those princely Germans didn't have to waste ammo as often the
enraged civilians would kill the guy on the ground.
that's exactly right
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Originally posted by SlapShot
HiTech : And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
That dont realy fit to the most unfair chute shooting, but some only have rules to look good. But of course you probably only mean fun for you and fair for your need. :aok
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Originally posted by storch
that's exactly right
Who bomb civilians and hunt civilians with a fighter shouldnt be suprised to get killed by them. ;)
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This brings back memories. One of my first posts was about this. And I got pretty much the same responses that are here now.
Here's my opinion:
This is a game, get used to some of this behavior. Personally, I won't shoot at a chute unless it is over my town or base.
Dont take it personal. I did at first. It's just as easy to .ef just before the plane gets ready to shoot.:aok
Obie
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Originally posted by Flatbar And others
Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion ;) . I am sorry if I pissed off someone (but hey, isnt that one of the purposes of the game? :D ).
I might have gone too far on that, but it is my previous experience. Might be that youre one of the guys who actually see this as fun without getting a b**er, more power to you. Seriously.
To make it clear, I am not pissed off when someone shoots MY chute, thats bad luck for me. Their game. I wont do it, and I find it lame when others do it (except hes on the ground and wont .ef). My satisfaction comes from actually beating the other guy while he was still able to defend himself. I am no score-potato either, I couldnt care less, I just dont have the time for this. I play for fun, pure and simple.
Matt
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Originally posted by Rino
Yeah, those princely Germans didn't have to waste ammo as often the
enraged civilians would kill the guy on the ground.
In the book The Blonde Knight, Hartmann tells the story of a pilot in his unit that was shot up by a Soviet fighter and forced to land his beaten up bf109. As Hartmann tells it, the Soviet pilot then landed his plane close to the wrecked bf109, got out and walked over to the German pilot and beat him to death. The Soviet pilot then walked back to his plane, got in and took off. War is Hell.
ack-ack
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I have to wonder if the guy was out of ammo, or just enjoyed the work. Either way, that's some pretty serious hate.
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I guess what I hadn't considered before posting this is that the bailed pilot still has the capacity to wreak havoc on the ground. I always sorta wondered by the pilot has a handgun after he bails.
It never, ever would have occurred to me to walk around and look for things to shoot after I bailed, but there it is I guess.
Well, I'll be .esquealing from now on. No chute kills for you!
But if you get shot down by Toonces3, no worry about getting killed in your chute- I'll buzz by you and throw you a wave.
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IF I was ever in a shoot (no chance)
AND you flew by and waved
I'd shoot at you w/ my .45
:)
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No way you'll hit me in my super speedy P51D!
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No way I'll ever be in a chute. ;)
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People open chutes? Whenever I bail I immediately hit .ef. Why bother with a chute at all?
I lied. Every once in a while if I'm near a friendly town under attack I might pop the chute and run to the maproom to kill troops or if I'm near a de-acked enemy airfield I'll open it and go shoot uppers in the head at the end of the runway with my .45 (love that).
As to shooting them? Waste of ammo.
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You have pointed out a problem in something I've written.
What I should have said is you'll never see me hit enter three times in succession (bail).
I don't bail, thus no chute and no .ef.
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Only bails I'll get are in buffs. Funny how a thread this lame is already in it's 3rd page.
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Alright, maybe it's a lame thread.
I haven't been playing this game for years like some of you, so perhaps my approach will change. But for now, the game seems sort of pointless if I don't care if I live or die.
What I mean, is that if I'm going to fly into suicide missions, ride the plane into the ground every sortie, etc, then any sense of...immersion for lack of a better word...is sort of gone. If I care if my virtual cartoon pilot lives, then I'm going to fly smart.
This is hard to articulate well. Once I stop caring whether my cartoon pilot lives or dies, then I might as well be playing quake or something. My enjoyment comes from flying a smart sortie from start to finish, landing safely (hopefully with kills). But, I've had as much enjoyment from landing with no kills if I fought well and extricated myself from a difficult situation.
So that's why I bail. I suppose in time this might change, but by that time I'll probably just find a different game to play.
See ya,
Toonces
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The only way to guarantee your survival is to kill all the bad guys. You should be trying to make the other guy use his emergency exit procedure, not perfecting yours. ;)
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Hi,
The guy here, "pluck," reiterates my feelings, too, though I think he is spoofing and making fun of it. I see Christian threads in here and I know at least one guy's username refers to him maybe being a pastor and this activity, what this game is, isn't what Christianity is about, not what it is ideally to be. I have second thoughts about killing cartoon planes, everytime. But I still do it. Real life combat, if ordered to kill not cartoons? Without hesitation, not one second thought, I would do as ordered.
I don't shoot chutes. It is bad sportsmanship.
I got me a few honest kills this tour compared to my previous attempts. Once I know I got a guy, I don't chase him down, either. I also do not deliberately try to get credit for another guy's kill. And if I see a 1-on-1 duel going on, I don't butt in unless I'm asked. There is supposedly a chivalry ethic going on here as to the "Air Warrior" crowd and I try to live within that code of conduct. A lot of guys here do not. There is definitely an air of mean spiritedness in here, MA, especially LW (both), even by some CM staffers, or might I say especially (LOL!).
But war is war, and whatever it takes to win seems to be how it is done here. Actually, real life combat, there is a code of conduct that is expected and hello to pay if one steps over the line. I asked my real life military instructors about that, and they basically said USA soldiers are not barbarians. My WWII Pacific Marine uncle (now dead) would tell you a different story, though.
Concerning HO's? HO's to me are not unlike a 12th century robust joust. People whine about it, but what is wrong with a head-on shot? My experience every time is the guy is intent on ramming. I now avoid it. I also avoid the furball stupidity and pretty much try to operate as Kylander talks about in his book.
On my end, me bailing? Clipboard is always ready when I bail. I have learned to freefall quite a ways down as I hear them coming for a chute vulch. I pop my chute and END SORTIE immediately. Surviving is better than dying as I usually keep my perk points, though reduced compared to a proper RTB. To "hot place down there" with score, but perk points come in handy and I want to keep what I have earned.
This game is played by a lot of different types of mentalities and personalities. It is about winning. I think, some, it is about whinning. Whatever works for you, do, as long as you are not violating TOS via HTC.
A psychology major could have fun with what goes on in here and do a master's thesis.
Fun game. And points don't matter...
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If I see a chute and can spare the ammo I shoot it. If I have 303 guns, I save the ammo just for this purpose.
You don't want to be shot in the silk? Either sky dive, or ride your wreck into the ground like a man!
I wish we could shoot the 0.45 while sky diving. Now that would be fun: two pilots bail out and have a free-fall shoot out :) Or even better: Enemy troops are on th ground heading to the map room - you bail out above them and come screaming down, pistol drawn and firing :D
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Originally posted by toonces3
Alright, maybe it's a lame thread.
I haven't been playing this game for years like some of you, so perhaps my approach will change. But for now, the game seems sort of pointless if I don't care if I live or die.
You should care. But not to the point were you dont enter a fight because you may die. You should care but only until it is over. When you lose, just get a new plane. Poping your chute open only gets you a few points. You have lost the fight and you are alive because you got lucky. Nothing to do with you. What these people are asking for is a score reward for being able to hit enter 3 times. Thats fine, but don't ask me not to shoot if you know how to do the enter thingie but not the .ef.
There is some honor in fighting in a game. Non in running, diching, bailing and cring dont shoot. Don't forget, you entered the fight with the intend of killing the other guy. Now you expect him to let you go?
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If you're asking me, then the answer is 'no'.
I don't expect anyone to 'let me go'. I expect to get shot down if I'm out of ammo, out of gas, outnumbered, wounded, etc, etc. Mission management is all about monitoring all of these factors and deciding when it's time to get out of dodge, saving enough ammo, gas, friends for the egress. Of course, some people will stay till the bitter end, fighting hopelessly outnumbered till their dead from an enemy bullet, or out of gas, or whatever. Hey, do whatever you want.
For me, only, I prefer to land alive. Period. I don't engage voluntarily in odds I know I can't win... eg. if I see 5 enemy below me and I'm all alone, I'm not going to go down there and mix it up. I try to egress when my situation is such that to stay longer is going to get my cartoon life killed.
This is why I bail from my plane. I'm not going to spend all this effort trying to fly in some sort of realistic manner and then ride the plane into the ground to be a man. I'm going to try to get to friendly territory, bail, and then take up a new plane.
Now, if I am chasing an enemy, I am going to keep shooting at you until you are dead. If I see you bail, I won't shoot you in your chute because it's not my goal to kill your virtual pilot, it's to kill your plane. If, by shooting you in the canopy I can kill you faster, so much the better. But once you're out of the plane, I got my kill and I could care less about denying you your virtual life. That's just me.
Having said that, I always wondered why folks would shoot at a chute. I see why now. No worries. But based on the responses I've seen here, I'll be .esquealing immediately after I bail. I can live with that.
I got the answers I was looking for.
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Originally posted by Knegel
i only shoot people on the chute, if they ask for, otherwise i would feel bad.
That's exactly how I feel.
Except for the part about waiting for them to ask.
And the part about feeling bad.
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Originally posted by myelo
That's exactly how I feel.
Except for the part about waiting for them to ask.
And the part about feeling bad.
Like a junkie that just got a fix !!!!
An old school FDB finally weighs in on the subject at hand.
Now if SOB and Furious were to respond ... nirvana.
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Originally posted by Knegel
Who bomb civilians and hunt civilians with a fighter shouldnt be suprised to get killed by them. ;)
Those who start wars shouldn't be surprised when the other guy fights
back either there Einstein.
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Originally posted by beau32
Why the hell did he do that?!
Here recently I've seen some things that make me cringe at the thought of someone doing something that doesn't sit well with most people. During WW2 several hundred pilots actually killed men in parachutes. To me this is the gravest of dishonors; the man has been removed as a threat, he has no real weapons [maybe a pistol] yet you still insist on killing him. There is no reason for it, and certainly no honor in it, yet some still insist on shooting a man in a chute.
As in any war, there are rules. None official but damn near every pilot follows them just to be fair. Fairness in battle might seem odd to most but in several hundred cases it has happened. I won't list any of them here, but I will give you some general rules to fly by in order to keep all things fair.
I hope you never have to go to war.... you'd be dead. The object of war is to kill the enemy. Not just destroy the tank, plane, ship or whatever, but the men trained to use the tank, plane, ship or whatever. That's how you win a war. You kill the enemy before he gets a chance to kill you or the guy next to you. There is no honor in war. War is not noble. Anyone that think there is honor or nobility in war is stupid.
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Did I just read that when you bail out, you can WALK AROUND AFTER YOU LAND?
Really?
Every time I bail out and land, my pilot just sits there. I can turn around and shoot the gun at targets that are too far away, but I can't actually move around on the ground.
Is someone here on drugs, or is there yet another magic key press or command I know nothing about?
-Llama
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""There is no honor in war. War is not noble.""
I've spent a large part of my life in and around the Air Force...dealing with pilots on a daily basis during that time...and to a man all would agree with the above statement. Each of them would also tell you that a 'HO' is just a chance to end the fight early (though most would avoid putting themselves in that position as it gives the enemy the same chance)...if the enemy flies in front of your guns---shoot him. Killing the guy in the chute gauranteed he wouldn't be back tomorrow trying to kill you or your wingman again. It's not pretty; it's not fair...but it is war and there is no place for honor, nobility and chivalrous behaviour. AHII is a game...do what ever makes your boat float. Personally, I kill 'em if they're close to friendly field or town.
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Originally posted by llama
Did I just read that when you bail out, you can WALK AROUND AFTER YOU LAND?
Really?
Every time I bail out and land, my pilot just sits there. I can turn around and shoot the gun at targets that are too far away, but I can't actually move around on the ground.
Is someone here on drugs, or is there yet another magic key press or command I know nothing about?
-Llama
R=Run
W=Walk
X=Back up
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FDBs don't really exist....
They are just stories your mother told to you to stop you from popping your chute.....:t
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Originally posted by llama
Did I just read that when you bail out, you can WALK AROUND AFTER YOU LAND?
Really?
Every time I bail out and land, my pilot just sits there. I can turn around and shoot the gun at targets that are too far away, but I can't actually move around on the ground.
Is someone here on drugs, or is there yet another magic key press or command I know nothing about?
-Llama
You will probably need to map the keys to the commands, but yes, you can now walk or run around, sneak up on people, and BLAM. Bailing over a town and running to the maproom in order to to defend it against paratroopers (your wittle guy can get inside the maproom, and shoot troops as they run in), and PWing people on the runway are probably the most common practices. It's fun.
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This thread makes me think of two things...
This: -
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/71_1165600036_bail.jpg)
And this (http://www.furballunderground.com/Guest/Furball/chutegopop.ahf)
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what i like to do is...after i shot the guy down and he bails not too far down, i circle around.. drop, slowdown get along side his chute and do a wing-over victory roll...w/a slow climbing bank afterwards. something you'd see more in WWI...but i like it. its just the gentleman good sport in me...
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In game...if one floats down near me...why not. I'd never alter course just for a chute though.
IN WAR. for those here who have posted about honor and manners and all that BS...you'd never make it in war. Sure there are isolated cases of humane actions an all sides, but they are the very few.
I would have rather been killed quick with high calibre ammo while in my chute, then plinked at while hanging in a tree, or better yet,...beaten to death with rifle stocks after landing, which happened daily on the eastern front.
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Imagine, someone bailing out of an aircraft and opening up a parachute; dangling there helplessly in the air and along comes some bastard pumping them full of .50 cal. People who would do this sicken me and should not only be banned from AH, but should have their names and home addresses listed on the web site so that us noble types won't unwittingly interact with them in the real world. Oh my, can you even imagine meeting slime like this face-to-face? The mere idea makes me feel kind of faint.
I mean really, what kind of sad 'tard hops out of a perfectly good burning wreckage of an aircraft just so they can dangle below some silk. I imagine these are the same types who as kids ran around the neighborhood with their momma's panties on their head. Fortunately, I never left home without my trusty slingshot.
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What would be a lot better than shooting at chutes would be the ability to ram them with our wings. Would be cool to look out at my left wing and see the guy I just shot down dangling from his parachute while it's stuck on my wing. Then I could land and drag him to his death as I touch down at 200mph on the hard concrete runway.
Oh, better yet it would be better if we could use our props and chop them up.
It would also be nice if we could make some holes in their chutes, you know to help the poor sap down faster.
But I like the prop one the best, would be neat to have the outside of the canopy covered in blood and guts of the guy you just grinded up in your prop. Good whines and good times.
ack-ack
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FDB!?!?
What in the heck is that?
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Before I became Catholic, I would gun chutes when I saw them and laugh.
Since I have become Catholic, I gun chutes when I see them and laugh.
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In real life you kill people in chutes to make sure the guy doesnt come back in a different plane tomorrow and kill you.
In AH you kill chutes just because you can. All meat bombs must die.
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Originally posted by Grits
All meat bombs must die.
Just correcting you here...
Parachute retarded meatbombs. :P
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I will shoot a chute if I see it. Then see the whines on 200 just because it will hurt their score instead of getting a bail they get "You have been killed". :t
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I wont go out of my way to shoot a chute, but if it is over a town I need or base I will take it out. Bailing over your own maproom to camp? I have seen it. Why do you think it takes 20 or so troops to take a field? Think about it.
As in real life. I didnt get to ask my Granddad that. I havent seen it in his diaries and I expect I will not. I am not sure that it was exaclty condoned or condemed by either side. It happened I am sure of.
Jugman
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
In the book The Blonde Knight, Hartmann tells the story of a pilot in his unit that was shot up by a Soviet fighter and forced to land his beaten up bf109. As Hartmann tells it, the Soviet pilot then landed his plane close to the wrecked bf109, got out and walked over to the German pilot and beat him to death. The Soviet pilot then walked back to his plane, got in and took off. War is Hell.
ack-ack
I have a new hero. I just wish I knew his name :)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
snip
As for AH, shooting chutes is fun. If you weren't supposed to shoot chutes, then they wouldn't blow up nice and pretty like.
ack-ack
Not only that, the creator of this game says the object is to piss the other guy off, doesn't he? :)
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I never straff chutes because I need all the ammo I can get to shoot down those that are a threat to me.
Does not bother me at all if someone shoots down my chute.
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The parachute just represents another target of opportunity. I do not take any part of this game seriously. Pop the shoots. HO, Bomb the gas pumps in the airfield. It is all what you want to make of it.
Just have fun.
-SR-:aok
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I think I'm going to try and fire rockets at a chute. I haven't done that yet.
ack-ack