Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: StuB on June 26, 2007, 09:27:03 AM
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When I first got my TrackIR (TrackIR 4 with "TrackClipPro) I realized that it would take some time to get used to it and get it"dialed in".
I have now had it for about 2 months and I still can't seem to get it to work consistantly. Consequently, compared to before I got the trackIR, my K/d, K/S and hit percentages have all gone to crap.
What's sad is that I only started flying AH 4 months ago (after a 5 year break from it). I had hoped to be doing better, not worse, with the sort of SA improvement the TrackIR should give me.
Lately, I can't seem to get it to give me a straight up, or a up high right views without stuttering/freezing the view.
What's REALLY frustrating is that sometimes it seems to be working sust fine but then, when I get into a fight, it starts acting up.
This has turned out to be more of a rant than a question, I know.....sorry. The troublshooting guide for the TrackIR is less than extensive and I didn't find much on their web site to help either. I'm just getting frustrated.
Last night I ended up just flying an IL2 .....since you can't see crap out of those things anyways....it didn't bother me and I had alot of fun. :lol
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Originally posted by StuB
Lately, I can't seem to get it to give me a straight up, or a up high right views without stuttering/freezing the view.
Your TIR unit is losing track of your reflectors. Check it in with help of the Heads & Tracking windows within the TIR software itself.
Either you are getting out of the cameras view, or there is some serious lighting problem. But if it worked fine for a long time and the problem just recently started, go and try to clean your reflectors with some warm water and a small amount of soap. Fixed the very same problem for me ;)
EDIT: Doh, just saw you are using that Track Clip.. so the cleaning tip may not apply, but you can stillt ry..
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Get a mouse like this
(http://www.freewebs.com/link850/marble.jpg)
And just use mouse view. Set the fist button to move head postition up. And set the second one to move head position Foward. It works great for me. :aok
Its saved me money, cause i dident have to buy a TrackIR.
Also ive heard about "Freetrack" or something.
It's free and it uses any webcam to to Track your head movements.
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Originally posted by ForrestS
Get a mouse like this
(http://www.freewebs.com/link850/marble.jpg)
And just use mouse view. Set the fist button to move head postition up. And set the second one to move head position Foward. It works great for me. :aok
Its saved me money, cause i dident have to buy a TrackIR.
Also ive heard about "Freetrack" or something.
It's free and it uses any webcam to to Track your head movements.
None of them gets even close to a TIR.
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The mouse is a alternative. It works great for me and i dont even have to turn my head.:O :aok
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Use more agressives settings, I'll try to post mine when I'll be back at home
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I've only had it for 2 months now.
Basically, I started flying again about 4 months ago and my situational awareness was terrible. I saw one of the TrackIR movies and said "WOOT! This will solve my SA problems". Boy was I wrong! And what sucks is that now if I try to fly without it I am totally lost and move my head around for no reason at all :lol
I guess what's frustrating the most is that one day I might have it set up perfectly. Then I take the headset off to go get a beer, take a whiz, whatever and when I come back and put the headset back on it's all screwed up again.
I just don't know what to do about it. I have the "camera" set about 36 + inches away and even when playing in a dark room it still acts up.
Originally posted by Lusche
Your TIR unit is losing track of your reflectors. Check it in with help of the Heads & Tracking windows within the TIR software itself.
Either you are getting out of the cameras view, or there is some serious lighting problem. But if it worked fine for a long time and the problem just recently started, go and try to clean your reflectors with some warm water and a small amount of soap. Fixed the very same problem for me ;)
EDIT: Doh, just saw you are using that Track Clip.. so the cleaning tip may not apply, but you can stillt ry..
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Originally posted by StuB
I guess what's frustrating the most is that one day I might have it set up perfectly. Then I take the headset off to go get a beer, take a whiz, whatever and when I come back and put the headset back on it's all screwed up again.
I just don't know what to do about it. I have the "camera" set about 36 + inches away and even when playing in a dark room it still acts up.
Excuse me if I do ask a very dumb question: You do recenter the TIR when after you are back, don't you?
If the TIR messes up, do alt-tab do get to desktop. There should be the TIR icon in your tray. Click on it to open the software, then open the "Tracking" and "heads" windows. You should be able to see now if there are any disturbing signals (=red noise/clutter) or you just don't get a signal from the reflector (green dots getting weak or moving just out of the window).
You may even post a screenshot for us to evaluate.
Second, Straffo hits right on point. It's all about setup. Apart from your technical problem, it just sounds to me as if you just haven't setup your TIR preferences properly. Aggressive is the word. It took me a few days intensive tweaking to get the most comfortable settings for me. I bet Straffo's settings will give you a good starting point for that.
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Yes, I do F12 to recenter it. I have also done Alt-Tab to check for problems while in flight. I have also tried various settings (aggressive/progressive, liniar, etc...) but I guess I just need to fiddle with it some more.
I really appreciate you guys trying to help me, thanks!
Originally posted by Lusche
Excuse me if I do ask a very dumb question: You do recenter the TIR when after you are back, don't you?
If the TIR messes up, do alt-tab do get to desktop. There should be the TIR icon in your tray. click on it to open the software, then open the "Tracking" and "heads" windows. You should be able to see now if there is any disturbing signals (=red noise/clutter) or you just don't get a signal from the reflector (green dots getting weak or moving just out of the window).
You may even post a screenshot for us to evaluate.
Second, Straffo hits right on point. It's all about setup. Apart from your technical problem, it just sounds to me as if you just haven't setup your TIR preferences properly. Aggressive is the word. It took me a few days intensive tweaking to get the most comfortable settings for me. I bet Straffo's settings will give you a good starting point for that.
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It's like Lusche says , your loseing sight of the three trackers .
I fixed mine like this , get the tracking window up and move around like you do in the game . You should never lose sight of the "three" green dots in the tracking window , if you do that's your problem sounds like to me .
I have the hat clip , not the not the ear thing . I had to bend the top reflector up away from the hat some , then it worked ok .
Just a side note . I still IMO believe that AH viewing system is better than Track IR for fighting . But that's just me , I tryed it and found I just use it in FS 2004 etc , not AH .
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Cut and paste this in a file (you can use notepad) with .xml as extension save this here : C:\Program Files\NaturalPoint\TrackIR4\Profiles
you can find some profiles in this thread http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196483
AH fred
Customized Aces High II
20
1 1
1
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Originally posted by StuB
Yes, I do F12 to recenter it. I have also done Alt-Tab to check for problems while in flight. I have also tried various settings (aggressive/progressive, liniar, etc...) but I guess I just need to fiddle with it some more.
I really appreciate you guys trying to help me, thanks!
The only problem I have had with TIR is with unwanted reflected light. Blackout shades solved all of that problem. Other wise it works as advertisied. I only use the hat clip thingy and a black baseball cap with no markings, just flat black.
I also have the unit on top of my monitor about 18 inches away.
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I'm sure you have checked this but just in case you have not.
The track clip requires that you have 4.029 software or later.
Open the trackir software, open your default profile or the one you use for AH, look under the motion tab and make sure that the "Trackclip Pro" button is selected.
If "dot" or "vector" is checked and you are trying to use the trackclip that could cause some issues.
I've had pretty good luck with TiR4 so far and wouldn't trade it.
For me personally it did improve my aim a bit when I went back and disabled the roll axis as I had a tendency to tilt my head which would throw off my aim.
Good luck,
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Originally posted by Skyfoxx
For me personally it did improve my aim a bit when I went back and disabled the roll axis as I had a tendency to tilt my head which would throw off my aim.
I have my roll axis enabled and do use it alot, I just gave it some more deadband.
My own hit % went up when I started to use TIR, but of course I can't really tell if TIR was the reason.
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Thanks, I will try it when i get home tonight.
Also, I saw something about "FSautoatart" in another thread. What is it and and where do I go to make sure it is enabled?
I'd look around in the game settings for it but I'm not home at the moment....
Originally posted by straffo
Cut and paste this in a file (you can use notepad) with .xml as extension save this here : C:\Program Files\NaturalPoint\TrackIR4\Profiles
you can find some profiles in this thread http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196483
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Fsautostart is a software you can use to kill processes or services not needed when playing AH.
I've played a bit with it but on my computer there was no real difference (I must add my PC is quite powerfull so it's perhaps the reason I didn't see any change)
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Ok. I thought it was something built into AH.
I make sure the "startup" in the start menu is empty and I disable all unnecessary services in system management.
I also go in and edit the registry ( HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run ) to remove certain programs from automatically starting up.
I also regularly run Regclean, delete my temp directories and defrag my hard drive.
Originally posted by straffo
Fsautostart is a software you can use to kill processes or services not needed when playing AH.
I've played a bit with it but on my computer there was no real difference (I must add my PC is quite powerfull so it's perhaps the reason I didn't see any change)
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I love my TraciIR3. It's GREAT for flying like a tourist....
Fun to look around. Smooth, with a great "feel'.
But for combat, I always get a far better K/D with the old, traditional Air Warrior view system (left hand dancing on numeric keypad). When I need absolute control in the heat of battle against skilled opposition that wants to kill me, nothing else comes close.
So (for me at least)...
...TrackIR is more fun until the fight starts. Then, when Fight's On, I kill'em the old fashioned way, with my left hand controlling views.
-Peabody-
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Originally posted by bbosen
...TrackIR is more fun until the fight starts. Then, when Fight's On, I kill'em the old fashioned way, with my left hand controlling views.
-Peabody-
When the fight starts, TIR begins to rule! Precise with instand feed back. Better spatial awareness. You can't beat it. :aok
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I agree completely with Lusche but am amazed how opinions differ on TIR. It's definitely one of those "to each his own" sort of devices. I do wonder though for those who have abandoned it, if they just did not spend the time getting it fine tuned. I find Mace's profile the best setup. It took me a while to get used to it because it is VERY aggressive but am very comfortable with it now.
One thing I don't miss is going to bed with my thumb throbbing like Jack Horner from working the view hat all night! :D
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I've been paying with nothing but my TrackIR for a few months now and here are a few things I have learned...
1) Turn the light filtering DOWN and the pixel preference UP. IF your room is free from excess IR signatures this should help the unit track the Track-clip better.
2) IR in front of you can be just as bad as IR in back. It can and will reflect off of things like glasses and i've even had it refect off of the track-clip's plastic arms. The shiny plastic does a great job of reflecting even a weak source if it is in the right place. I fixed that by scuffing them up with some fine grit sandpaper.
3) With the Track-clip try and make sure the three LED's are verticaly aligned, dont need to be perfect but close is better then all ****-eyed.
4) Before you play look at the TIR software and see what the camera is seeing. Move your head all around and make sure that the LED's are visible through the entire range of motion, the closer you sit to your camera the smaller the margin of error you have for alignment. i have found that 18" is a bit close. I get my best resuts at about 30". Plus, by checking, you may notice an IR signature popping up where you didnt expect it. The wife's lighter 6 feet behind me was enough to throw the unit off.
5) Clean the camera occasionally, my kids had fingerprinted my camera it was causing all sorts of weird images, a 50/50 alcohol/water solution cleaned it right up!
6) i know i've mentioned it before but use FSautostart or somthing similar. My system isnt a slouch by any means, but occasionally i would get really bad tracking or jerky motion, havnt had any since i've used it and i dont see the FR hit anymore either.
I dont mean to imply that the trackir is tempermental, but like any of the equipment we use it may require a little learning, adjustment and care to work 100%. I am convinced that a TrackIR running 100% would convert even the most diehard hat-switch user.
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1) Turn the light filtering DOWN and the pixel preference UP. IF your room is free from excess IR signatures this should help the unit track the Track-clip better.
This is what fixed my problem.
And for anybody that just uses the clip like me. You can go to local hardware store and purchase some reflective tape to replace the old, dirty, faded tape on the clip. Makes a HUGE improvement!
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I use the TrackIR 4 Pro, and it works awesome. Something i've found, is that using the HAT in conjunction with TrackIR provides great results. It was a kind of annoying looking behind me, so I just flip the hat to the appropriate rear view, and slide my head to the left or right to look behind me.
All the info in this thread is great, and monkey'ing around with the settings took me about a week to get perfect. I found that by editing each Degree of Freedom individually worked best. Disable all but one, set it exactly right, disable it, and move to the next one. I do have the head roll disabled though. It just tilted the screen and was annoying.
One problem I have encountered, is that when I try to close TrackIR software, it hangs, and I have to CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up the processes list and shut it down manually. Anyone else have this issue?
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Originally posted by StuB
Ok. I thought it was something built into AH.
I make sure the "startup" in the start menu is empty and I disable all unnecessary services in system management.
I also go in and edit the registry ( HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run ) to remove certain programs from automatically starting up.
I also regularly run Regclean, delete my temp directories and defrag my hard drive.
FSA doesnt do exatly that, it wil stop then restart any processes that you normally want running for regular use and then it performs a memory defrag. I admit that if i were to do a complete wipe of XP and reinstall i might not need it, but with 2 years of overhead and stuff running i find it invaluabe for AH.
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Straffo, I loaded up your profile and while it sems to allow more view coverage it is extremely jittery.
I then re-loaded the profile I was previously using and now that is jittery as well.....prior to all of this it was very smooth, but would freeze at certain view angles.
I rebooted my system a couple of times and made sure it wasn't running anything that wasn't needed and it was still jittery, but not as much as before.
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That's weird :(
Perhaps a problem of version ? I'll check the version I use when back at home.
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sounds to me like it's a resource problem and not a track ir settings problem.
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Originally posted by StuB
Straffo, I loaded up your profile and while it sems to allow more view coverage it is extremely jittery.
A lot of red clutter in your TIR tracking window?
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No, none at all. I see three bright green dots and that's it.
As for a possibility that it's a resource problem......perhaps, but it was working very smoothly before the change (except at certain angles every once in a while).
Originally posted by Lusche
A lot of red clutter in your TIR tracking window?
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Hmmm.. at this point I think it's time to take it to the TrackIr Support. Does really sound like some internal resource problem to me.
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Overall, do not be surprised that your scores have gone to crap. It takes a lot of time to get the system dialed in to where you're comfortable and you have to learn new techniques to both take advantage of and minimize the disadvantages of TIR. For instance, lots of guys complain they can't hit anything when using TIR, learn to use your forward view button to cage the TIR view along the aircraft axis for gunnery and it's better than the fixed forward view everyone is used to.
Something else to consider when you troubleshoot TIR using the heads or tracking displays. Your head movements in a fight are probably going to be much larger than when you're just sitting there moving your head around watching a graph. The adrenaline starts to pump and you may be putting in a lot of "body english" in a fight that's putting you outside the tracking limits, especially if your problem is just in one area (i.e., while looking up to the right). For instance, I find that in a fight I'll lean pretty far forward, much more than when I was calibrating TIR. This makes the tracking area smaller and centering the camera more critical. As someone else mentioned try moving your camera farther away to increase the size of the tracking area.
Here's another tip. If you've done the checks for bad tracking, clutter, positioning, etc., and you still have problems try uninstalling and reinstalling your TIR software (latest version is 4.1.30 final B). When you uninstall it'll give you the option to backup your profiles, make sure you do that so you don't inadvertently lose them. That may fix some of the problems you're seeing.
Also, while it doesn't sound as if the problem is your TrackClip Pro switch over to a regular trackclip and see if that makes a difference (make sure you switch the software settings to trackclip).
If the TIR is working as it should you may still get stutter due to your connection. Call up your "Net Status" from the clipboard (right click the map and select Net Status) and look at the Host Cue Time. Normally, this looks like an even sawtooth pattern but if you're seeing square wave patterns (instead of "spikes" the pattern has flat tops) the stutter may be due to your connection so that's what you need to troubleshoot, not the TIR. Download Pingplotter and check your average ping times and packet loss. One of the frustrating things about this is that things like dropped packets and excessive ping times don't bother you much as you're just flying around but can really show up (and screw you up) when the system is tracking multiple local aircraft, just when you need TIR the most. If your connection is causing the problems you can get lots of help by posting in the Technical Support forum.
For those of you that think TIR is great except for when you're in a fight you might reconsider your approach. Try going to the TA (I'll be happy to work with you there) and start out with simple 1v1's with a less aggressive profile and really get used to the movements. After you get used to it then step up to a more aggressive profile and so on. It can be very frustrating and disorienting when you have to "think" about what you're doing with your head but with enough practice it becomes very natural just as it took time and practice to "learn" the hatswitch views. Switching back to the hatswitch during a fight is counter productive, it just becomes a crutch and slows down (or stops) the learning process. Try unmapping your hatswitch views (except the forward view position) to force yourself to rely totally on TIR. Of course, maybe some can never adjust (getting nauseous is one of the problems) but I'm pretty sure the majority just give up too quickly.
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but if you're seeing square wave patterns (instead of "spikes" the pattern has flat tops) the stutter may be due to your connection
I almost always see flat tops but didn't know it indicated a problem. I've always thought I couldn't hit anything because my gunnery skills were just awful. Now I wonder if my internet connection is at least part of the problem. If that's the case, what is the fix?
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Well, I tried adjusting the settings on my original profile and it is working better. It is still not quite as smooth as it was before, but it was usable for me in the LWA for a while last night. Hopefully as I mess with it some more to get it smoother I won't make it worse :)
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Originally posted by Condor
I almost always see flat tops but didn't know it indicated a problem. I've always thought I couldn't hit anything because my gunnery skills were just awful. Now I wonder if my internet connection is at least part of the problem. If that's the case, what is the fix?
I'm not an internet expert but have just noticed that when I see a flat top I also get a stutter. Lets say I'm panning around and see three stutters. I quickly call up the net status and sure enough there are three flat tops. This occurs not just with TIR, it's just very noticable since you're constantly scanning around. Other times, you may notice a stutter when you're doing a maneuver such as an aileron roll. The best advice I can give is to review the stickies on the technical help forum and follow the instructions/advice that Skuzzy gives there. You can also post the problem if you still can't improve it. On the other hand, no connection is perfect so if it's just occasional it's probably not a problem to live with it; however, if it's really bad as I've seen at times you can probably do something to make it better.