Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sullie363 on June 26, 2007, 02:48:37 PM
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Just remembering the days when we'd have as many players on each side as are now in an entire arena.
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4417/ahss66qb3.jpg)
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That just meant larger hordes and more milk runners as far from the enemy as they can hide while still milking things.
IMO it's not such a loss. There are other things to fix, but perhaps the arena limits are not one of them.
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the good old days were bish would hord bases. :lol
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67 more Bish then Rook
Yeah the good old days.......:rolleyes:
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consider the source of the whine.
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Oh for the love of all that is holy and right, the point was that were 700 players online. That scale of competition was fun, all I'm saying.
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The good old days vanished about 6 months prior to AH2.
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Originally posted by sullie363
Oh for the love of all that is holy and right, the point was that were 700 players online. That scale of competition was fun, all I'm saying.
LOL you can only fight so many at 1 time Sullie, and being on the recieving end of those odds was hardly considered fun for many.
How many bases can you steamroll in one night anyway? :)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
The good old days vanished about 6 months prior to AH2.
Amen brother !!! :aok
And the "End of Days" decended upon AH on 12-02-2002 when they announced the "Contest".
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Originally posted by Pyro
Aces High Championship Shootout
Be a top pilot and win cash prizes flying Aces High!
Starting in December, HTC is awarding the top 15 pilots with the best overall rating at the end of the monthly Tour in the Main Arena a cash prize! The top pilot earns $100 and the remaining pilots in the top 15 earn $50 each. Better yet, the top 15 pilots for each month qualify for the chance to win $500 in the Championship Shootout held after 4 months of qualifying rounds.
Information on how the overall rankings are calculated can be found here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/scoring.html
Players may only qualify and receive a monthly cash prize once during the 4 month contest period. The Championship Shootout takes place after the 4 months of qualifying. The 60 qualifying pilots will face-off in a last-man-standing event for the $500 grand prize! An official rules webpage for the contest will soon be posted on our website. Good luck!
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I don't care about the numbers. I don't care which side has the numbers. I don't care what plane you fly. I don't care what plane I fly. I don't care how dweeby you are. I dont care if you ho run ram vulch cherry pick etc. I dont care that the same people have the same crys on 200 every time they die. I don't care about the same armchair generals over country vox barking out orders. I don't care abut squeakers.
What I care about are the maps. At the moment Aces High has become extremely boring. Same Maps. Same fights. Same bases being taking. Same out come of every map. Same terrain. Same everything. The amount of maps that used to be in the rotation was awesome. You would be lucky to see the same map every 1 or 2 months. Now you see the same map 2 or 3 every week. Its boring, its repetitive, its starting not to be fun. Seems I've been flying mostly FSO Scenarios SnapShots Close escorts etc. Ive logged mabey 2 hours in the air in the MA in the past week........
Ok my rant is done carry on.
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Well Guppy, how many bases do you have? Last night we put the Knits back in their corner. Not sure if it was a steamroll since they were putting up a fight. It was fun attacking a fully defended base with Bostons and P47D11s though. Not being sarcastic, it actually was a lot of fun. Basically just a big old furball at 15K.
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Originally posted by Krusty
That just meant (...) and more milk runners as far from the enemy as they can hide while still milking things.
Nonsense.
The arena split made milkrunning FAR mor easy than ever before. On the single map there was a much higher probabilty that one of the 200-600 people will show up to ruin your day.
Now you can always find an almost empty arena with almost no risk of interception at all.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Nonsense.
The arena split made milkrunning FAR mor easy than ever before. On the single map there was a much higher probabilty that one of the 200-600 people will show up to ruin your day.
Now you can always find an almost empty arena with almost no risk of interception at all.
Very true, hell Early War last night didn't even have any Rooks in it. Could have taken every vbase they had, now that would have been a steamroll lol
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Up until two weeks ago, I hadn't played since Feb 2003 (pre AHII?). Here's my take.
There is something missing from the current set-up - the maps seem small and claustraphobic. Maybe nostalgia is creeping in, but I remember the huge bombing missions that would be posted (Ripsnort was one flyer who used to post them) and there seemed to be more cooperation.
The level of maturity on on Channel 200 seems to be much lower than my recollections of Channel 1 offer in comparison. This seems to be the case on Channel 2 also, but to a lesser extent. I've now switched off Channel 200 (which is the default setting - the reasons for which are quite obvious to me now).
For me personally, it's a shame the squads I remember have disappeared - but I guess time moves on and there are now new squads to take their place.
I've had mixed feelings about AHII as it stands currently. The new skin system, improved graphics etc are great. But I think the lack of maps is a real negative compared to the AH I remember. I would also like to see larger numbers in the arenas again - the numbers I remember were nothing like 700 IIRC, but still its better than the 200 I see now.
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Ah, the good old days of when there were more bish over a given field than there were players on either of the other teams.
Such glorious of levels of competition for a kill haven't been seen since.
Thank god for that.
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Yeah, I could see how hard it would be to avoid a field being vulched.
Since many of you seem to be referencing it, I'll clear something up. The only reason bish have such high numbers in the screen is because it was squad night for a number of the larger squads. If I had taken the screen on Sunday instead of Monday, we would all be looking at massive Rook numbers. Aside from the couple hours a week where one side may have significantly higher numbers from combined squad ops, all three sides were pretty evenly balanced with their periodic ups and downs.
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anyone ever get the feeling that nothing will ever be as good as it once was?
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You are complaining about the total numbers.....truth is, they were often spread over a huge terrain, rendering the same density we have today.
I did prefer the old maps, however...And wish we had more maps now..... The need to concentrate a few players to get the right density has left us without much variation......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz
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Originally posted by TalonX
You are complaining about the total numbers.....truth is, they were often spread over a huge terrain, rendering the same density we have today.
Er... What universe were you flying in? There were only 2 fights, and sometimes 3 if the bigger countries stopped ganging the small one enough to fight each other. Instead of being over 1 field (as now) the "fight" was one massive furball over 3-4 sectors (so instead of 1 field being ganged, 4 were simultaneously, all next to each other) kind of like there were too many players in one area so they spilled over to the next closest field, then again, then again, but they were all part of the same horde.
Lusche: I'm not counting the EWA and MWA. In my opinion both of those should be closed. If not then all EW planes should be enabled in MW and they should be merged. Then all rank and stats should be disabled from that server. I'm talking about just the post-split late war arenas. Orange and Blue.
EDIT: P.S. I'm in total agreement that we need more maps. I'm getting sick of the same AH Beta-era maps being recycled ad nauseum. The problem is that resets are nearly impossible now, and resets used to change the maps 2-3 times a week.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Lusche: I'm not counting the EWA and MWA. In my opinion both of those should be closed.
Why? What would be improved by that?
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Originally posted by Lusche
Why? What would be improved by that?
Aside from the stats-padding milkrunners, there are less than 10 folks per side in EWA and MWA. Often the milk runners have made it so that one country has no "front line" with the other two. Many times I've gone into one of them to find 9 players (total) on. The only ones actually fighting are on the bish/rook front, but the knits (which I'm on in this example) don't have a frontline airfield within 5 sectors of the fight, because of the milk runners or because of other reasons.
Removing them puts the action back into the LWAs (where you can still fly EW planes). Merging them boosts the numbers, creating better chances of actually getting a fight you can fly to (and you can still fly EW planes).
Either case we get rid of the EW. Both cases we get rid of stat-potato milkrunners. Either case we increase the chances of a fight regardless of which server you log into.
The AvA is another matter, though :rofl
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I miss the Good ol days
Hell I even miss playing AH1's main arena
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Originally posted by Krusty
Aside from the stats-padding milkrunners, there are less than 10 folks per side in EWA and MWA. Often the milk runners have made it so that one country has no "front line" with the other two. Many times I've gone into one of them to find 9 players (total) on. The only ones actually fighting are on the bish/rook front, but the knits (which I'm on in this example) don't have a frontline airfield within 5 sectors of the fight, because of the milk runners or because of other reasons.
Removing them puts the action back into the LWAs (where you can still fly EW planes). Merging them boosts the numbers, creating better chances of actually getting a fight you can fly to (and you can still fly EW planes).
Either case we get rid of the EW. Both cases we get rid of stat-potato milkrunners. Either case we increase the chances of a fight regardless of which server you log into.
The AvA is another matter, though :rofl
I don't see how putting 10-30 people back into the 2 LWA's will "put any action back there". It certainly won't increase the chances of a fight in the LWA much.
It just kills the fun for that few people actually enjoying fighting there, but doesn't enhance the fun of the "majority" in the Late War Arenas
Besides that, milkrunners there do not harm anyone, and if you just don't want them to pad their scores there (only works to a certain degree though), just score the arenas seperately (which would have even a few bonus effects, in my opinion)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Amen brother !!! :aok
And the "End of Days" decended upon AH on 12-02-2002 when they announced the "Contest".
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A day that will live in infamy!
ack-ack
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The only way you will get the "play for Score" players to work at it more than milk is have each individual arena set up with its own scores/stats......
I would not even tie the (2) LW arenas scoreing system together......
and while I am thinking about it...for some unknown reason at that.......
let the Dueling Arena have its own scoring and Stats as well........
and bring back Scoring and stats for individual players to the SE Arena also.....
or at least turn on Stats only for each individual Arena...... and do away with the instant .ef you bailed back to the tower deal...........if a person gets shot down, they either should ride her all the way in.......or bail out and go SPLAT.......unless of course they open the chute :D why even have a chute and a command to open it if you going to let people instantly .ef to the tower
and dammit all, we need scoring in the TA as well......:noid
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
The only way you will get the "play for Score" players to work at it more than milk is have each individual arena set up with its own scores/stats......
I would not even tie the (2) LW arenas scoreing system together......
I would tie them together, because often it's not your choice to play in a specific one but the servers (arena cap) Also, which of the two arenas happens to be the almost empty one at non-peak times changes alot.
So IMHO splitting scores between those two LW Arenas wouldn't make that much sense.
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Originally posted by Husky01
What I care about are the maps.
Thats the first thing i noticed when i saw the pic, nice map wish i were around then to play it. Only been around since Nov 06 but i've noticed in that short time the map selection has become uninspiring. Same fight day after day, week after week.
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Having stats specific to each arena only gets rid of the small problem, if it even is a problem, of people milkrunning in EW. But as long as HT is committed to having stats, which in theory should show a certain level of skill, there isn't that strong of a case to not allow a player to carry his/her rank to any of the MAs. Since it is often difficult to always fly in the same LW arena due to player caps, not being able to maintain the same set of stats wouldn't seem fair. Their accuracy and relevance would totally go out the window even more than they are already.
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Originally posted by Lusche
I don't see how putting 10-30 people back into the 2 LWA's will "put any action back there". It certainly won't increase the chances of a fight in the LWA much.
It just kills the fun for that few people actually enjoying fighting there, but doesn't enhance the fun of the "majority" in the Late War Arenas
Besides that, milkrunners there do not harm anyone, and if you just don't want them to pad their scores there (only works to a certain degree though), just score the arenas seperately (which would have even a few bonus effects, in my opinion)
Well put, I agree completely.
I really think score means nothing but at least it would put early war and mid war into an AvA type of scenario, maybe cut EW and MW down to two sides also.
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The ol' days of AH1 where furball was the main theme and few took bases. Good sticks were plentiful and could find a good size furball anywhere on those large MA maps.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Removing them puts the action back into the LWAs (where you can still fly EW planes). Merging them boosts the numbers, creating better chances of actually getting a fight you can fly to (and you can still fly EW planes).
Please keep your mitts of EW and LW ... again, don't use these arenas, and those that like to play in these arenas as a solution to the LW problems. As pointed out above, a total of 60+ people is not going solve anything in the LW arenas.
Some of us actually use these arenas for actual combat. Score these arenas separately and it will definately put a damper on the milk-running score potato who think that their score/rank actually mean something when flying in the LW arenas.
I very much enjoy the mid-war plane match up and the balance that this plane set provides. I can fly my favorite early/mid war rides and know that any other plane that I come up against ... I will have a fair and balanced fight.
Flying eary/mid war planes in the LW is just not fun anymore.
If you do get in a tangle in LW, and you reverse the individual you are fighting, they just run away ... for the most part, you can't get away with this in the EW/MW.
If you do get in a tangle in LW, you have to compete with all the late war monsters that your team mates are flying and more often than not, they swoop in on the plane that you just worked to your advantage and pluck the kill ... thinking that they are helping you.
Flying an early/mid war plane in the LW is like the runt pup fighting for scraps.
The LW mentality, at this point in my AH career, is not appealing at all.
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Beemer and I switched to the low number side in MW last night and had a very enjoyable couple of hours. There was some decent fighting that went on at a steady pace.
It would have been better, of course, if the CV had been left alone but there are still some... challenged... players that haven't realized that sinking the CV only means a longer drive to the fight and thus their enemies will be higher instead of lower when the engagement comes.
Slap, while I hate to say this, milking a bucket full of rank in the EW/MW does have value in the LW. The high ranked milkers can control CV's in the LW if they milk enough rank in EW/MW. This gives them the ability to sail it right in towards the shoreline and get it sunk.
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Originally posted by Toad
Beemer and I switched to the low number side in MW last night and had a very enjoyable couple of hours. There was some decent fighting that went on at a steady pace.
It would have been better, of course, if the CV had been left alone but there are still some... challenged... players that haven't realized that sinking the CV only means a longer drive to the fight and thus their enemies will be higher instead of lower when the engagement comes.
Slap, while I hate to say this, milking a bucket full of rank in the EW/MW does have value in the LW. The high ranked milkers can control CV's in the LW if they milk enough rank in EW/MW. This gives them the ability to sail it right in towards the shoreline and get it sunk.
I understand that Toad ... that is why I said ...
Score these arenas separately and it will definately put a damper on the milk-running score potato who think that their score/rank actually mean something when flying in the LW arenas.
Really ... in the end, there are only a select few that really know how to command a CV, and those that do milk run the EW/MW for rank are only seeking the "WOW ... he must be real good" accolades and CV control is not part of their "WOW" factor.
Also, part of my post was to point out that our "resources" (those who play in EW/MW) are not going to make a drop in the bucket in LW.
You know all about "resources" ... eh ? ... ;)
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Lusche: Adding them into the LWAs won't necessarily help the LWAs, it will help the folks that were in the EW/MW by actually giving them a fight. Merging the 2 into 1 would also concentrate the numbers making the chance of a real fight much better.
Slapshot: You get the same losers in the EW as you do in the LW. They're just 15k above the fight in perked P-38Gs instead of in la7s. They still run just as easily. The only difference in the EW is that most of the planes are hur2Cs instead of P51s/f4us. I, too, enjoyed the EW (for a short while) and the MW (for a long while), but frankly you can't say "Some of us actually use these arenas for actual combat" because of the 10 folks on at any given time, only 2 are fighting each other. Often times 9 are on the same team.
So, if you don't remove them entirely, at least you still merge the EW and MW into one. Call it "Early War" (because it's still earlier than the LWA's). The EW folks can still fly what they like, and flying a hurr2c against a 190a5 or a 109g2 or a p47d11 or a 110g isn't such a big deal, as compared to the "runners" in the LWAs. You still need to separate the scores/ranks from it, though. It will still be a milkrunning server. However, the few that go there for a fight will actually find one. That in itself is an improvement over the last 20 times I've gone into the EW/MW arenas.
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Yeah, I'm going to call HT and see if I can pay more to be a Resource Manager. :)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Slapshot: You get the same losers in the EW as you do in the LW. They're just 15k above the fight in perked P-38Gs instead of in la7s. They still run just as easily. The only difference in the EW is that most of the planes are hur2Cs instead of P51s/f4us. I, too, enjoyed the EW (for a short while) and the MW (for a long while), but frankly you can't say "Some of us actually use these arenas for actual combat" because of the 10 folks on at any given time, only 2 are fighting each other. Often times 9 are on the same team.
So, if you don't remove them entirely, at least you still merge the EW and MW into one. Call it "Early War" (because it's still earlier than the LWA's). The EW folks can still fly what they like, and flying a hurr2c against a 190a5 or a 109g2 or a p47d11 or a 110g isn't such a big deal, as compared to the "runners" in the LWAs. You still need to separate the scores/ranks from it, though. It will still be a milkrunning server. However, the few that go there for a fight will actually find one. That in itself is an improvement over the last 20 times I've gone into the EW/MW arenas.
I spend alot of time in the MW and I really don't see quite what your describing. I have only seen a handfull of P-38s flying and when they do, they are used for porking a base.
I don't really care who is higher than me (never have), but if they do decide to engage me in my F6F, and they don't kill me, they have an extremely hard time running from me unless they have gobs of E.
Maybe combining the EW/MW might not be a bad idea, but there needs to be another option other than just LW.
I do agree that the scoring in EW/MW/LW should not be combined in the same bucket. I think that if scoring each arena seperately just might increase the numbers in EW/MW. Those that don't have a chance at getting the "rank" in LW just might try for the "rank" in EW/MW.
All I want is that the option for something other than LW exist ... simple as that.
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I definitely think EW and MW should have individual scores.
I also definitely think they should not be merged. There is a clear, significiant difference in performance betweent these two plane groups. I posted when they first opened that there were a couple of planes that really shouldn't be in EW but I won't rehash that.
Suffice it to say that the EW planeset is pretty well matched for good fights. Adding them to MW would ruin that.
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I'd like nothing more than to see 100 folks on at a time in the MW arena :D
But, since that's just a dream, I like the idea of combining EW/MW more and more, now that I think about it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Lusche: Adding them into the LWAs won't necessarily help the LWAs, it will help the folks that were in the EW/MW by actually giving them a fight.
Wow.. thats quite paternalistic, like "You just don't know what is good for you my son."
Ever asked yourself if they WANT that kind of help?
You do already have a choice to go to LWA when you don't find a fight. People visit in EW and MW for various reasons, I doubt it will give them more fun being forced to leave.
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While I know it happens, I find the constant complaints about milking in EW/MW funny. I do ALL my milking in the LWA's. It's no more difficult there than in EW or MW. It's actually easier because you get better planes.
I go to EW and MW to find fights. Sometimes I can, sometimes not but when I do they seem a lot more fun than in the LWA's. I'd hate to see EW/MW go away, but, I do think they could be combined into one arena and scored seperately from the LWA's.
Side note: I just thought of this but if they were combined you might want to get rid of the MW perk rides, then perk a few of the others instead to help balance it a little better (lean it toward EW a little more).
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Bald eagl: good suggestion. Shift it more towards late '43 (instead of early '44).
Lusche: It's not a matter of "what is good" it's a matter of "what is bad" -- and what is bad is how the EW and MW work right now. As I said, every time I've gone in either arena for the past 20 attempts, it has been pathetically sad. No fights. No action. Nothing. A dead arena with milk runners and maybe 2 folks actually fighting (or 1 shooting his second account??). That's not in any way a "good" thing.
Perhaps you need to look at it objectively and say "Hrm.. maybe this isn't right". It seems that a lot of folks defend the EW and MW with knee-jerk reactions because they don't want to fly in the LW again. Well, they wouldn't have to if the EW/MW were merged. However much they don't want to fly in the LW, they cannot claim that the EW/MW is a good system, nor can they claim (with a straight face) that it is even an adequate system. It's a poor system.
Keeping the same spirit of it, but having 1 combined arena helps it in several ways (already outlined), and would be a good compromise.
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Throw the current scoring system out the window. Let folks play a couple months without any scoring of any kind and see if/how the AH ecosystem evolves. If HTC is not happy with the results they could always put it back the way it was or add a little scoring at a time starting with an overall generic rank based on something that everyone accomplishes whether furballing or toolshedding.
I dunno just a random thought.
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There's only 3 stats that matter in the least.
Kills.
Kills/Time.
Hit %.
All else feeds timidity.
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Honestly I don't know why they haven't tried altering the score system.
Obviously it's pretty in-depth in tracking as much as it does so there'd probably need to be a lot of #'s put in place and maybe supplemental code to keep AH from generating error's. Overall though, I personally (being nobody at all) think it would be worth it just to see what happens. If it would mean installing a client side patch let folks vote on it, hell let them vote on it anyway if ya think they'd throw a fit over it. If anything else, it'd probably help in that it'd free up some bandwidth and server resources. :aok
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Originally posted by Toad
There's only 3 stats that matter in the least.
Kills.
Kills/Time.
Hit %.
All else feeds timidity.
Agree.
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I'd love to see the scores being split between the arenas, and completely seperate. Would it stop the milk running, no, but those that worry about the being"top dog" would most likely spend more time in that one arena. Now "Baldeagl" ( not saying hes a score hoar :D ) Likes working the LW arena, someone else might find it too hard to be a "top dog" in LW ( read "squeeker" :D) so he spends most of his time in MW, or EW.
I think in the long run, the EW, and MW arenas may pick up more population due to this, and even tho some of these guy would have started to use these arenas to build a good "score" they will learn how import the score board really is, but which ever arena they are in will feel more like their "home arena". They will be practiced in those planes, and use to fighting in that era, feel more comvertable. I'm sure they would "tour" the other arenas, I know I would if I could find fights in the other arenas.
I can't see any "negatives" for making the scoring being completely independent in each arena other than that "Getting your name on the webpage" at the end of a tour, but I'm sure some math guy could come up with an equation they could use to crown the "best of the best".
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It seems that a lot of folks defend the EW and MW with knee-jerk reactions because they don't want to fly in the LW again.
There is nothing knee-jerking about my reactions when some say that closing down EW/MW will solve the LW score/rank problems ... it's simply stupid to say that and I remind them of that. Change the scoring system .... I agree with that whole-heartedly.
However much they don't want to fly in the LW, they cannot claim that the EW/MW is a good system, nor can they claim (with a straight face) that it is even an adequate system. It's a poor system.
Don't lay it all on the EW/MW ... it's is bigger than that and you know it ... the "poor system" as you call it, trancends all arenas, so lets attack it from that standpoint.
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I wasn't saying your comments were knee-jerk. It's not the first time the issue of closing one or both EW/MWs has been brought up, and often the only arguments against it sound of knee-jerk "I don't wanna lose my arena" shouts. Again, wasn't pointed at folks in this thread.
Seems to be no reason to include scores from EW/MW into LW, does there? Other than simply to keep track of scores, I mean. We've had several arguments to separate it, though. I do hope HTC lends an ear and considers it.