Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on June 26, 2007, 04:21:26 PM
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Cruise banned from filming for being a cultist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6240312.stm)
Would you want Tom portraying your father in a film about his life and death?
I'm still stunned that Hollywood have given the part of Guy Gibson to Tom Cruise in the upcoming Dambusters remake. Not to mention casting Paris Hilton as his dog.
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:rolleyes: Mission Impossible 4: to make Tom Cruise look and sound German...:rolleyes:
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Sounds to me Mr. Cruise is being discriminated against because of his beliefs, which are non-violent in nature. I think this is fundamentally unjust. I sympathize with Germany’s intentions to curb religious extremism and Neo-Nazism, but they have to stop acting like Nazis while doing it.
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I think the Germans called out Scientology fairly accurately. A kooky faction that seeks tax-free status claiming to be a religon.
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Originally posted by Viking
Sounds to me Mr. Cruise is being discriminated against because of his beliefs, which are non-violent in nature. I think this is fundamentally unjust. I sympathize with Germany’s intentions to curb religious extremism and Neo-Nazism, but they have to stop acting like Nazis while doing it.
A comet is approaching Earth, and FAST, because this is the first time GSholtz and I agree.:confused:
However the original poster only made the post because he's anti-American and anti-Religion. :rolleyes: It really had NOTHING to do with T. Cruise at all....
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
A comet is approaching Earth, and FAST, because this is the first time GSholtz and I agree.:confused:
Say it ain't so rip....
:D
(I also agree on both counts)
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Also note: German Gov't sentences a pastor 1 year in prison for simply comparing abortion to the holocaust.
Freedom of speech is dead in Germany. All Hail Hitler. :rolleyes:
German Pastor Sentenced to a Year in Jail for Comparing Abortion to the Nazi Holocaust
By Elizabeth O’Brien and John Henry Westen
ERLANGEN, Germany, June 26, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A city court in Erlangen, Bavaria, gave Lutheran Pastor Johannes Lerle a one year jail sentence for the “crime” of comparing abortion to the Nazi holocaust.
In response, Jim Hughes, Vice President of International Right to Life Federation has called on pro-life activists internationally to take action on the matter by contacting German authorities to demand freedom of speech and freedom of religion for the pastor (see contact information below story).
Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the annual murder of 150,000 babies through abortion in Germany to the murder of thousands of innocent Jews in Auschwitz. The court, which consisted of no jury and a single judge, ruled that this statement made Lerle a holocaust denier.
On 14 June, Judge Erda Erdenhofner convicted Lerle of a particular crime known as “volksverhetzung”, or “incitement of the people”. Ironically, volksverhetzung was an accusation that was frequently used by the Nazis to convict those with whom the regime disagreed, a slap-conviction that could be used to dispose of inconvenient people.
During his address to the court, Lerle defended himself and claimed that his statement was in no way taking away from the gravity of the sufferings of the Jews.
The German Catholic news service kreuz.net reports that the reason for the severity of the punishment is in part due to the pastor’s six previous convictions, which have seen the pastor serve two prison terms lasting eight and a half months in total. He was formerly imprisoned for calling abortionists and their aides “child murderers.”
Brussels Journal reporter Paul Belien notes that German courts have slammed other pro-life advocates with heavy sentences for similar statements. German pro-life advocate Günter Annen, for example, was reported by the Journal as having called for an end to “unjust abortions” in 2005. She received a 50-day jail sentence on the grounds that her claim that abortion is “unjust” is legally inaccurate. The courts decided that her words wrongly implied that abortion is illegal in Germany.
Other Germans have also faced stiff sentences in the past for using strong language to condemn abortion.
After calling abortuaries places where, “life unworthy of living is being killed,” some were convicted for allegedly choosing similar language to what Hitler used to describe euthanasia under the Nazi regime.
Pope John Paul II underlined the parallel between the Nazi Holocaust and abortion, which he calls “legal extermination,” in his book “Memory and Identity” (2005). He wrote, “It was a legally elected parliament which allowed for the election of Hitler in Germany in the 1930s.” He also pointed out that the same country that declared Jews non-persons less than a century ago has ruled that unborn babies are not persons either (see http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/feb/05022306.html).
Angela T. Wu, International Director of the Becket Fund, an American organization that guards the freedom of religious speech, commented to LifeSiteNews.com, “If these reports are true, this is a harrowing example of a growing trend of government laws that control its citizens’ viewpoints and stifle the free speech rights of religious organizations and practitioners.”
She continued, “Whether or not you agree with the pro-life position, Pastor Lerle and those like him must be allowed to freely espouse his and his church’s views on the issues without fear of government reprisal. While Volksverhetzung laws exist in Germany because of its unique history, that is no excuse for illegally violating the international human right to freedom of belief, which must include the right to profess those beliefs, even those of a controversial nature.”
Calls to the German Embassy in Ottawa for comment were not returned by press time.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07062606.html
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Originally posted by Viking
Sounds to me Mr. Cruise is being discriminated against because of his beliefs, which are non-violent in nature. I think this is fundamentally unjust. I sympathize with Germany’s intentions to curb religious extremism and Neo-Nazism, but they have to stop acting like Nazis while doing it.
Well, Tom Cruise isn't banned from filming at all in Germany.
He may just don't get the authorisation to film on military installations.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the US Miltiary doesn't permit everybody to film on their bases or does support every production either. As far as I know, not only for security but for political reasons as well. Army doesn't like your agenda, person or project? Film it elswhere. (And I think that's absolutely their right).
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Originally posted by Lusche
Well, Tom Cruise isn't banned from filming at all in Germany.
He may just don't get the authorisation to film on military installations.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the US Miltiary doesn't permit everybody to film on their bases or does support every production either. As far as I know, not only for security but for political reasons as well. Army doesn't like your agenda, person or project? Film it elswhere. (And I think that's absolutely their right).
I'm correcting you. You're wrong on the bold part.
Now, if Germany is banning him at ANY location based on religious beliefs, then you might as well start practicing the goose step.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm correcting you. You're wrong on the bold part.
So US Army does support everyody?
That's kinda hard to believe. It wouldn't even make sense from a Army point of view.:
"Hollywood film-makers have frequently changed plot lines, altered history and amended scripts at the request of the Pentagon, according to recently released military documents. Producers and directors have often agreed to changes in order to gain access to expensive military hardware or to be able to film on military property."
Full "The Guardian" article at: http://ics.leeds.ac.uk/papers/vp01.cfm?outfit=pmt&folder=715&paper=931
In the list of famous films denied any cooperation are for example "An Officer & a Gentleman", "Mars Attacks", "Apocalypse now" and many others.
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The thing I would like to know is whether the film locations they need for historical accuracy are on the military bases. I would imagine they are. This is a problem.
From the little I read in that link it does not appear that Cruise is persuing any kind of Scientoligist agenda and therefore I don't agree that he should be refused permission to film BECAUSE of his beliefs. If you don't like Tom Cruise portraying your father in a Hollywood movie, that is a separate issue and the son should be free to try to stop it from happening through all legal means at his disposal.
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Originally posted by Curval
If you don't like Tom Cruise portraying your father in a Hollywood movie, that is a separate issue and the son should be free to try to stop it from happening through all legal means at his disposal.
I wonder if he has really any legal means at his disposal. And personally I'd think that this would be a rather silly thing.
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Maybe Cruise is just a convenient excuse to avoid cooperating with the production of a movie made about bombing GERMAN damns?
or is it dams ;)
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Originally posted by AKIron
Maybe Cruise is just a convenient excuse to avoid cooperating with the production of a movie made about bombing GERMAN damns?
Surely not.
And German society is generally not overly patriotic when it comes to such questions, that should be no problem.
But let's just say: Scientology has been a very hot topic in Germany for years.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Surely not.
And German society is generally not overly patriotic when it comes to such questions, that should be no problem.
But let's just say: Scientology has been a very hot topic in Germany for years.
Really? It's pretty much ignored here in the US. Except perhaps in people magazine.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
:rolleyes: Mission Impossible 4: to make Tom Cruise look and sound German...:rolleyes:
As long as the German that Cruise is playing a cocky jerk, I think he could pull it off.
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Originally posted by Viking
Sounds to me Mr. Cruise is being discriminated against because of his beliefs, which are non-violent in nature. I think this is fundamentally unjust. I sympathize with Germany’s intentions to curb religious extremism and Neo-Nazism, but they have to stop acting like Nazis while doing it.
Who are you? And what have you done with GScholz? :D
I agree also btw. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Also note: German Gov't sentences a pastor 1 year in prison for simply comparing abortion to the holocaust.
Freedom of speech is dead in Germany. All Hail Hitler. :rolleyes:
Article 5: Freedom of expression
1. Everyone has the right freely to express and to disseminate his opinion by speech, writing and pictures and freely to inform him from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by radio and motion pictures are guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.
2. These rights are limited by the provisions of the general laws, the provisions of law for the protection of youth and by the right to inviolability of personal honor.
3. Art and science, research and teaching are free. Freedom of teaching does not absolve from loyalty to the constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
note that 1949 German Constitution Art 5.2 says "these rights are limited by..."
The First Amendment of the USA Constitution says, "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"
With much stronger language in the USA Constitution, we still have limits.
Freedom of speech in Germany has been "limited by the provisions of the general laws..." since the trials at Nürnberg.
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Tom Cruise is gHey....
Mac
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm correcting you. You're wrong on the bold part.
Now, if Germany is banning him at ANY location based on religious beliefs, then you might as well start practicing the goose step.
I'm sure a bunch of Islam extremists wanting to shoot out a Jihad movie will be welcomed open armed to any US military installations. :rofl
Double standard..
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'm sure a bunch of Islam extremists wanting to shoot out a Jihad movie will be welcomed open armed to any US military installations. :rofl
Double standard..
Hehehe, amen to that one.
Anyway, is Cruise to play Stauffenberg? I'd think he's to short, so it would be a better idea to have him play Hitler :D
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'm sure a bunch of Islam extremists wanting to shoot out a Jihad movie will be welcomed open armed to any US military installations. :rofl
Double standard..
Last time I checked, Scientologists weren't strapping bombs to their daughters and sons and sending them to blow people up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Ooh … this is going to be a long one.
Let’s start with Rip…
Originally posted by Ripsnort
A comet is approaching Earth, and FAST, because this is the first time GSholtz and I agree.:confused:
Nah, if that were the case then we would be long since dead already. Remember we agreed on the E31 being the “dream car” back in the olden days of AH1:
(http://www.auto-tuning-news.com/image/plakat/Hartge/8/front/Wallpapers-Hartge-BMW-8-front-1280x1024.jpg)
I still think it teh awezum! Especially the newer facelifted versions.
However … soon after we agreed on the E31 World War III started, so you may have a point! ;)
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Also note: German Gov't sentences a pastor 1 year in prison for simply comparing abortion to the holocaust.
Freedom of speech is dead in Germany. All Hail Hitler. :rolleyes:
I do agree that the Germans have gone too far with their legislations against what is in reality a “thought crime” with regard to denying the Holocaust, use of Nazi symbols etc, and that they as a people need step back and take a long hard look at themselves and their history rather than trying to “ban” it.
However, that article you posted is fraught with spin and errors to the point of being pure falsity.
1. Murder is an unlawful killing. The author systematically mislabels abortions (which are legal in Germany) as murders. This is no more truthful or any less deceitful than those who call hunters or soldiers “murderers” purely to incite anger.
2. Pastor Johannes Lerle was not convicted of “denying the holocaust” but for harassing and insulting people in public. The rather harsh sentence is a result of multiple previous charges of the same.
3. “Volksverhetzung” does not accurately translate into “incitement of the people”, this is a misrepresentation to facilitate the later comparison with the Nazis. “Volksverhetzung” means “harassment or incitement of a people” – the harassing or insulting of a group of people. In the US you call this a “hate crime”. This charge would not look very good on the old Pastor, so the author again takes liberties with the truth.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to harass, insult or slander people in public. Not even in the USA, although you haven’t gone to such lengths of legislating it as Germany has.
Originally posted by Lusche
Army doesn't like your agenda, person or project? Film it elswhere. (And I think that's absolutely their right).
I don’t have a problem with the German Army declining to help with the film because they think Mr. Cruise is a bad actor that won’t do your national hero justice on the silver screen. I have a problem with your Army, an agency of your government, refusing to help because they don’t like the religious beliefs of Mr. Cruise. I bet the outrage would be significantly more vocal if your Army had told Dustin Hoffman that they didn’t want him on the base because they don’t like Judenschweinerei.
*Humming on “1939 Returning” by The Crocketts.
Originally posted by Curval
From the little I read in that link it does not appear that Cruise is persuing any kind of Scientoligist agenda and therefore I don't agree that he should be refused permission to film BECAUSE of his beliefs. If you don't like Tom Cruise portraying your father in a Hollywood movie, that is a separate issue and the son should be free to try to stop it from happening through all legal means at his disposal.
I agree completely. While Mr. I have never seen him promote his religion or personal agenda (if any) in his movies. Cruise may not be a good actor by any measure, but I consider him one of the better people in the US film industry.
Originally posted by Elfie
Who are you? And what have you done with GScholz? :D
Ssshhh! Don’t wake him. ;)
Seriously though; same guy, different target, new allies. That’s all. :) I could say much of the same against the USA, but it would be redundant at this time. In any case you guys now seem to see things a bit differently than before with regard to “homeland security” and other aspects of your post 9/11 … unfortunate changes.
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IMHO, any "religion" that copyrights its information shouldn't be classified as a religion at all.
It's a business.
Same goes for Mormons.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
:rolleyes: Mission Impossible 4: to make Tom Cruise look and sound German...:rolleyes:
He's short enough to look like a little Hitler.. add that gay little mustache and I think he could pull it off. :rofl
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Originally posted by crockett
He's short enough to look like a little Hitler.. add that gay little mustache and I think he could pull it off. :rofl
like this?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/tomcruisehitler1.jpg)
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Originally posted by Airscrew
like this?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/tomcruisehitler1.jpg)
lol perfect :rofl
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Last time I checked, Scientologists weren't strapping bombs to their daughters and sons and sending them to blow people up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Now now, I distinctly recall you saying _any_ religious reason.
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X Day is coming, if your "Pink" then you have no hope. Praise "Bob" for salvation and send him your money.
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we are here and not there, different countrys different rules,
but still judging others with U.S. laws (rules) ? and if it dont fit call them Nazis?
congrats! wise move, go on, you are on the right way.
Similar to Poland last week.
beside that, i like movies with Tom Cruise, good actor,
i would love to see him as Graf Staufenberg...
Scientology? a friend of mine joined them for a few years,
Today he is no more in this club. Its BS to call them a Church.
its a company who makes money selling ideology ideas,
some parts are really sience fiction and funny.
Btw. Its an expensive club! ;)
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However the original poster only made the post because he's anti-American and anti-Religion. It really had NOTHING to do with T. Cruise at all....
I dislike Tom Cruise and that makes me 'anti-American'? Or perhaps because I dislike the cult of Hollywood 'celebrity' I am 'anti-American'?
I dislike the way scientology portrays itself as a religion yet acts like a cult and therefore I am 'anti-Religion'?
Wonderfully reasoned argument, Ripsnort. Let me be the first to congratulate you. Perhaps a little cerebral for the likes of me to understand, but I'm sure you're right!
Nice personal attack by the way; well done for apparently getting away with it.