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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BennyBeaver on June 27, 2007, 01:30:52 PM

Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: BennyBeaver on June 27, 2007, 01:30:52 PM
the mesquito...a great flyer...better at recon...but not in this game

The mesquito fighter was made of all wood...exept the engine. Making it almost invisible to radar during WWII. But in this game, it shows up perfectly on radar. We should make it that the mesquito, a great plane....stealthy. like it was during WWII!

Thanks
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: SkyRock on June 27, 2007, 01:33:55 PM
SkyRock<----grabs flyswatter!:aok
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Gloves on June 27, 2007, 01:38:49 PM
I thought this was going to be a recipe for some great TexMex.  :D

Guess I missed that one.

Glove
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Krusty on June 27, 2007, 02:00:56 PM
Just because a plane is wood doesn't mean it's invisible to radar, FYI. There are many many factors, and it wasn't a small plane.

P.S. "Mosquito" 2 os no Es :aok
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Rino on June 27, 2007, 02:04:44 PM
I always wondered what kind of wood they built the mosquito out of..:D
If you set it on fire we can have a major BBQ :D
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 27, 2007, 02:21:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Just because a plane is wood doesn't mean it's invisible to radar, FYI. There are many many factors, and it wasn't a small plane.

P.S. "Mosquito" 2 os no Es :aok



But in the Mossie's case, an all wood construction gave it the added benefit of being the first "stealthy" combat aircraft.  


ack-ack
Title: Re: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Shifty on June 27, 2007, 02:37:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver
th We should make it that the mesquito, a great plane....stealthy. like it was during WWII!

Thanks


Who is we? Do you have a mouse that COADs in your pocket? :huh
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: SlapShot on June 27, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gloves
I thought this was going to be a recipe for some great TexMex.  :D

Guess I missed that one.

Glove


Nobody caught it Glove ... :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by RinoGloves
I always wondered what kind of wood they built the mosquito out of..
If you set it on fire we can have a major BBQ  


Well ... they would have built the Mesquito out of Mesquite wood that the Brits imported from Mexico, but the De Havialland Mosquito ... was made of plywood monocoque construction.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: bozon on June 27, 2007, 03:07:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
But in the Mossie's case, an all wood construction gave it the added benefit of being the first "stealthy" combat aircraft.  
 

I think it was stealthy because it didn't fly in a box of thousands.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: FiLtH on June 27, 2007, 03:12:23 PM
Mesquito was a variant made in Texas. :)
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: BaldEagl on June 27, 2007, 03:18:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Well ... they would have built the Mesquito out of Mesquite wood that the Brits imported from Mexico.


And if you flamed one you'de have Mesquite barbecued Brit.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Vulcan on June 27, 2007, 03:39:56 PM
Wow, how did they make wooden bombs and cannons? And weren't the wooden fuel tanks a bit leaky?
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: hubsonfire on June 27, 2007, 03:50:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver
Accordian too Golden Books Big buk on airesplanes Teh mesquiteoz was made of all wood accept for the engine, wires, cables, wheels, struts, guns, armumentz, fulltanks and all th stuff that was made of cloth adn metaLs.


There, fixed.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Kev367th on June 27, 2007, 04:09:14 PM
Actually he has a ponit.

Even the Germans said their biggest problems with the Mossie were -

a)  It was almost impossible to find with radar.
b)  Even if they found a group it was usually to late because of its speed

Maybe there should be a way to tone down the Mossie's radar sig in AH2.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Krusty on June 27, 2007, 04:11:22 PM
Maybe it was impossible to find with radar because it was hugging the ground?

I don't buy that, though. I think it was the tactics and the way it was used that made it undetectable most of the time. Other times the LW just weren't in a position to do diddley about it.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Kev367th on June 27, 2007, 04:16:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Maybe it was impossible to find with radar because it was hugging the ground?

I don't buy that, though. I think it was the tactics and the way it was used that made it undetectable most of the time. Other times the LW just weren't in a position to do diddley about it.


Nope even the high flying B IVs were extremely difficult to detect.

It may be most famous for its daring low level raids, but was used as much as a high alt flyer also.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 27, 2007, 04:19:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
I think it was stealthy because it didn't fly in a box of thousands.



The Mosquito with its wooden exterior instead of metal,  made the aircraft reflect less of the radiation that radar systems bounce off objects to identify them.  It was an early use of what engineers call RAM, or radar-absorbing material.

Not saying it was the intent of the designers to make it stealthy, it was just an unexpected benefit.


ack-ack
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: 1K3 on June 27, 2007, 04:25:44 PM
Then almost ALL wooden planes should be invisible to radar then.

Other planes that are made of wook just like Mosquito...

La-5
La-7
Yak-9T

These planes should be invisible to radar then:aok
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: dedalos on June 27, 2007, 04:31:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Then almost ALL wooden planes should be invisible to radar then.

Other planes that are made of wook just like Mosquito...

La-5
La-7
Yak-9T

These planes should be invisible to radar then:aok


And the onezz made of cloth
Title: Re: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: ForrestS on June 27, 2007, 04:56:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver
the mesquito...a great flyer...better at recon...but not in this game

The mesquito fighter was made of all wood...exept the engine. Making it almost invisible to radar during WWII. But in this game, it shows up perfectly on radar. We should make it that the mesquito, a great plane....stealthy. like it was during WWII!

Thanks


Weve already had this descusion:mad:
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Gianlupo on June 27, 2007, 05:10:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire

Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver

Accordian too Golden Books Big buk on airesplanes Teh mesquiteoz was made of all wood accept for the engine, wires, cables, wheels, struts, guns, armumentz, fulltanks and all th stuff that was made of cloth adn metaLs.



There, fixed.


:rofl :rofl :rofl Hub, you gave me a great laugh... thank you! :aok

Krusty, I think AkAk is right about the Mossie and radar. Don't forget that those devices were at the beginning of history of radio detection, they weren't like the ones we have now. An all wooden plane may have benefit of it, being more difficult to detect.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Scherf on June 27, 2007, 05:28:30 PM
Heheh:

There was in fact a Mossie which was left to rot somewhere in Mexico, Mexico City I think. IIRC the bits are now with a fellow named Jim Dearborn.

Also IIRC, a Mossie was used at some point well after the war by the CIA - may even have been the one at Mexico City.


So jeh, meng, it was de fastest Mezquito in all Mehico, joo know.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Vulcan on June 27, 2007, 07:06:56 PM
yup them thar mosquito's were invisible as the F-22 is...

Quote
A small batch of preproduction He-219A-0s was nevertheless delivered to 1st Squadron, 1st Night Fighter Group (I/NJG-1) at Venlo, The Netherlands, in April 1943. In the first operational mission, on the night of June 11-12, 1943, one of these preproduction aircraft downed five British "Lancaster" bombers. Over the next 10 days, 20 RAF bombers were shot down, including six of the extremely fast "Mosquitoes" (which commonly hit speeds near 650 kph/400 mph). The He-219 was fitted with the combat-tested Telefunken FuG-212 ("FuG" for "funkgerat" or "radio equipment") "Lichenstein" C-1 intercept radar, first used operationally in early 1942. The radar's range was limited to 4-6 km (3-4 mi), and its coverage was only a 70-degree cone facing forward, so the aircraft worked best in an integrated air defense system with ground radars, radio networks, and ground observers pointing out potential targets.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 27, 2007, 07:17:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
yup them thar mosquito's were invisible as the F-22 is...



Never said they were as stealthy as today's modern stealth fighters.  But no matter what you claim, it will not change the fact the Mossie is considered to be the "first stealth aircraft" due to its wooden construction.  As I mentioned before, the Mossie wood construction bounced less signals off than an all metal aircraft, which resulted in a smaller radar signature for the Mossie and coupled with the tactics they used, made the Mossie rather difficult to pick up on radar.

ack-ack
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Gatr on June 27, 2007, 07:41:55 PM
RUN FOREST!!!!!!

My 200th post!!!!!
AHHH classic
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Vulcan on June 27, 2007, 07:56:53 PM
Actually my comment was referring to the current 'debate' around the stealthiness of the F-22 (there seems to be some issues around its IR signature and X-band profile).
Title: Re: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: ozrocker on June 27, 2007, 08:38:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver
the mesquito...a great flyer...better at recon...but not in this game

The mesquito fighter was made of all wood...exept the engine. Making it almost invisible to radar during WWII. But in this game, it shows up perfectly on radar. We should make it that the mesquito, a great plane....stealthy. like it was during WWII!

Thanks

Must have seen the show on Discovery or whatever yesterday afternoon
                                                                                      Oz
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: yanksfan on June 27, 2007, 09:04:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Then almost ALL wooden planes should be invisible to radar then.

Other planes that are made of wook just like Mosquito...

La-5
La-7
Yak-9T

These planes should be invisible to radar then:aok


Actually the problem is not that metel or wood are better or worse to detect useing WWII style radar. The fact of the matter is that cartoon airplanes show up just fine on cartoon radar. Cartoon wood used in cartoon mossie's burns for an incredibly long time before its cartoon fuel tanks full of cartoon fuel explode.

Bugs bunny and Daffy duck will be giving a class on this in the TA if anyone is interested.And by the way, it's DUCK SEASON!  And I DEMAND that you shoot me now!
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Scherf on June 27, 2007, 09:32:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Actually my comment was referring to the current 'debate' around the stealthiness of the F-22 (there seems to be some issues around its IR signature and X-band profile).


Whatever your intention, what you posted is known to science as bull****.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Monster0 on June 27, 2007, 10:20:59 PM
Many mossie missions were under noe under 50ft.  One thing is for sure before the mossie it was more luck then skill on landing bombs on targets.  Most of the clips I saw on the mossie showed some nice bombing runs.  I'm also speaking about the first version without cannons. Bomber and Recon.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 28, 2007, 01:36:48 AM
But the flying on the deck isn't what made them stealthy to the radar systems at that time.  


ack-ack
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Kev367th on June 28, 2007, 03:09:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by yanksfan
Cartoon wood used in cartoon mossie's burns for an incredibly long time before its cartoon fuel tanks full of cartoon fuel explode.


Another problem with our cartoon Mossie.

It wasn't known for catching fire as easily as ours do.
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Charge on June 28, 2007, 03:14:26 AM
There can be other reasons why such a high flying lone plane is hard to detect. It partly depends of the frequency of the radar used and the angle of the reflecting parts +the absorption ability of the material.

E.g. one considered asset of Ho229 was its wing structure which was fully of wood and was considered an asset in avoiding radar detection. There is no evidence if this had been true in practice.

-C+
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Noir on June 28, 2007, 04:56:21 AM
there is an aircraft forum for that kind of talk....but bennydumb doesn't care about that kind of stuff
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: SteffK on June 28, 2007, 10:52:37 AM
The Mossie Airframe was a Wood Composite, of Balsa and Plywood, they sandwiched the Balsa between 2 thin sheets of Ply, which made for a good light airframe.

Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Vulcan on June 28, 2007, 04:36:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Scherf
Whatever your intention, what you posted is known to science as bull****.


Sorry didn't realize we had a stealth expert in our midst? Care to elaborate?
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Nilsen on June 28, 2007, 05:37:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
I think it was stealthy because it didn't fly in a box of thousands.


and sometimes really low
Title: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: Scherf on June 28, 2007, 08:28:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Sorry didn't realize we had a stealth expert in our midst? Care to elaborate?


You posted that in the 10 days following June 11 1943, He-219s shot down six Mosquitos.

That is bull****.

It is such widely-quoted bull****, it should have its own page on Snopes.
Title: Re: The Secret Of The Mesquito
Post by: sullie363 on June 28, 2007, 08:56:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BennyBeaver
the mesquito...a great flyer...better at recon...but not in this game

The mesquito fighter was made of all wood...exept the engine. Making it almost invisible to radar during WWII. But in this game, it shows up perfectly on radar. We should make it that the mesquito, a great plane....stealthy. like it was during WWII!

Thanks


For the record, people from Lake Oswego do not represent the views of Oregonians.  Thank you.