Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hap on June 28, 2007, 12:38:35 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/index.html
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too bad we'll never see the President on stand doing his version of the Alberto Gonzalez dance.
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Good for them. The political posturing by the Dem's is definately going to hurt them in 08'. Instead of promising to do what they said in '06, they are focusing on those right of the isle and going into smear mode(or rather "have been in smear mode). The bottom line is it hurts us all.(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/plthumbsdown.gif)
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This isent just bunch of cusing its acctually kinda good.
GWB rap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jLdyDlwkW8)
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I wouldn't credit Bush with attempting to push through an illegal immigrant amnesty bill most Americans are adamantly against knowing that most senate/house Democrats would support it to their political detriment but I think he is smart enough to listen to smarter advisors. He won't be up for reelection afterall. ;)
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I hope Sen. Voinovich isnt typical of our 100--I was listening to this yesterday:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56414
The key sticking point in the conversation was Hannity's question as to whether the senator had done a cost analysis on the bill. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank, estimates the bill would cost the American taxpayers $2.5 trillion.
Voinovich said he didn't believe the cost would be that high because a third of those eligible for a path to citizenship would never take it.
"How do you know that?" Hannity asked. "Where does that figure come from?"
Voinovich did not provide any supporting evidence for his contention and admitted he had read neither the bill itself or the Heritage Foundation analysis.
The senator complained that some of his constituents have attempted to "intimidate" him by saying they would oppose his re-election if he voted for the bill.
"You do not intimidate George Voinovich," he said. "During my 40 years in this business, I have always looked at the pros and cons of each piece of legislation and made a determination. If people don't like my decision, they can express their will during the next election."
When Hannity began making the case against the "amnesty" bill, Voinovich interrupted, asking: "Are you happy with the current legislation? Our current laws stink!"
"No one is enforcing those laws, senator," said Hannity. "That's the problem. It's been five and half years since 9/11, and the border is still not secure."
When Hannity returned to the issue of cost analysis, Voinovich cut the conversation short.
"I don't really think there is any point talking to you further," said Voinovich. "You are just looking for someone to agree with you. I'm disappointed in you."
The conversation began with a question from Hannity about whether the senator supported the Fairness Doctrine, currently a hot topic among Voinovich's colleagues.
"Fairness Doctrine – I'm all for it, whatever it is," he said. "I think everyone should be open to show the other side. That's what you do every night on Fox. That's great!":rofl
When Hannity reminded Voinovich that the Fairness Doctrine would establish government regulatory bureaucracies to enforce this balance, Voinovich quickly retreated.
Voinovich also asserted efforts in the Senate earlier in the day were successful at amending the immigration bill to require illegal aliens to return to their nation of origin before getting on a path for a green card. When Hannity pointed out the measure failed in a 53-45 vote, Voinovich seemed stunned.
"He doesn't even know what the Fairness Doctrine is," exclaimed Hannity. "He doesn't even know the outcome of a vote in the Senate today. And he gets mad at me when I try to explain it to him!" .
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Well, I was thinking this over and the immigration bill was a canny move by Bush.
Give away citizenship in return for votes. Sort of like the pre-civil was problems in the house of representatives but without the Mason-Dixon line.
Rip, as far as the Dems smearing, you're right. They've got plenty of company on the right side of the aisle too. Yes, we all lose also. It would be nice so see someone say, phoeey. We quit. We won't do it that way any more. But the short term gains are too great, and the folks involved are bowled over by power and money.
The best politicians that money can buy.
It is dismal. And in the face of contrary evidence, I still hope for some smidgen of truth telling.
Oh, there's a real good speech written by Ted Sorensen, JFK's speechwriter, I just read. I don't agree with all that he said. But the tone and subject matter at least is worthwhile. I like the straight up front approach. I don't know which is more ridiculous, thinking Viet Nam was in our national interest or the mess in the Middle East.
The best thing that could be done is to devise some Yankee know how to drastically reduce our need for what they have.
What could be better?
You can find it on Real Clear Politics.
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Give away citizenship in return for votes. Sort of like the pre-civil was problems in the house of representatives but without the Mason-Dixon line.
Only problem with that, which Gop types just can't comprehend, is WHY would dirt poor Mexicans EVER vote Republican? They are gonna vote for the party offering them FREE stuff. Even if they come over here with intact 'family values', those more often than not go out the window as they are awarded with welfare, etc for having babies out of wedlock
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It is simple proof that we don't even need the bums.
Why have an immigration bill at all? All we have to do is enforce the current laws.. we haven't done that for 30 years so what would this bill have done? why is it so important now and hasn't been for 30 years?
All we have to do is enforce the current laws.... arrest all the employers and that will end the problem. If we need more fences... build em. We don't need these morons to do any of that.
lazs
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Ummm....when's the last time you were at a construction site? Not sure who we gonna get to build the fence, quite a catch-22 there
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"During my 40 years in this business".
that says it all. term limits.
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yeah... I never was in construction much except for about 20 years.
How it worked was... two pro painters could get there at 7.. the crew of mexicans were already there at 5 for another contractor on the same type houses.. the pro's would have a cig and coffee and get ready.. they mexicans would be on a full run... all 12 of em... at 4 the 2 pros would start cleaning up their tools and leave at 4:30 having painted the outside of 2 houses... neat clean work.
the 12 mexicans would stay till 8 to finish the 2 and a 1/10 houses they were working on and to throw dirt on the concrete they had painted by mistake and try to scrape the anodized window frames they oversprayed.
put the employers in jail and there will be plenty of people around to take the construction jobs.
You need people to work in the fields? pay em. get the brasero program back... build machines to do the work.
Why do we feel it is ok to have slave labor in our own country?
lazs
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Why do we feel it is ok to have slave labor in our own country?
That's exactly what it is-- they work for far lower wages than legal guys would work for, to the point where jobsite unskilled 'laborers' are invariably illegal Mexicans, Guatemalans...Costa Ricans, Nicaraguans...and they are damn happy to get paid the pittance they get. I'm tryin not to feel sorry for them, but they are fediddleing up the blue collar wage structure in a LOT of areas, and labor-intensive businesses seem to have that equation burned into their fiscal plan
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arrest the employers... end of problem.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
arrest the employers... end of problem.
lazs
By far, the largest employers of illegal labor here in California are the large factory farms. Tossing site managers and foremen into the calaboose will do nothing to stop the owners from replaceing them and continuing on.
Taking away their means of making money would. What do you do to these type of owners?
Confiscate the land?
Impound their equipment on a national level?
Force them to give up large amounts of their crop thereby reducing their income for a given period of time?
Whatever is done to these 'boardroom farmers' you can be sure that not a single one of the rich factory farm CEO's will ever get the proper punishment or even one that will stop their greed for high and cost effective acarege yields on the backs of poor, uneducated brown folk.
I would suspect that if they tossed just one of these CEO's or maybe the board members from a single corporation into jail for these labor violations you could cause a sharp decrease in illegal laborers in other corporations.
Same could be done for the hotel industry. Toss Ol' Bill Marriott or maybe Paris Hilton's dad into the hoosegow for a few months and there WILL be a change in how employeers adhere to the labor and immigration laws.
Until then, it will be situation normal, AFU'd.
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the foremen and site managers need to go to jail. the new ones won't hire illegals.
The penalty needs to be jail time. It won't take long for the foremen and site managers to realize that jail is not attractive and... snitch off the owner.
It is not complex. the excuses you make are just that.
It will also snowball... those employers who obey the law will have an interest in turning in the employers who don't.
I believe it is an almost perfect solution... 100%.. it is certainly much much better than anything you can come up with. even if it only cut the problem in half... half way there is better than anything I have seen offered so far.
lazs
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Little doubt you are right about how to stop illegal immigration lazs. The problem is that our government officials do not want to stop it. How do we fix that?
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Jail time, and a good sized fine will straighten out alot of people.
The jail time to scare some sense into them, and the fine to hit them where it hurts the most. Maybe the fine could be based on what a normal worker is supposed to get paid for a 6 month period.
All the money from the fines go to the border patrol to beef up the force.
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ak.. I don't know.. I do know that millions of people called their representitives and got the amnesty for illegal aliens bill defeated.
I have written to my represenitives to give my solution. I have said that enforcement of the laws is their duty..
They write back that I am wrong.. that enforcing the law will not work.. One said that 70% of the employers who were arrested had the jury let them go.
They tell me that the only real solution is to simply ignore the problem except to help any illegal with money and health care and schooling and feel lucky we had a chance to make the world a little better place for the less fortunate.
That there is no solution. That there doesn't need to be a solution.. everything is fine except we don't have enough water stations for "immigrants" who might get thirsty coming here to help us. That not enough spanish is spoken here and that not enough spanish is the problem.. that the schools need more money to educate the "immigrants" in their native tounge.
but... if we don't call and write them then I guess we will never know if we can make a difference.
lazs
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I will admit to being lazy in writing my elected representatives. I will change my attitude in this regard in the next few months and dust off my old fashioned ball point pen.
Well, maybe I'll just buy some more printer paper. ;)
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I was speaking with a lady that works for Lincoln Diaz-Balart. she claims that they reckon that for every letter written there are about 1000 people who hold a similar opinion as the one expressed in the letter written, unless it's a highly publicized issue then they go by the weight in pounds of mail and faxes they receive. snail mail is the best way to get those nice folk's attention.
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Storch, is your Fred Thompson quote genuine? :D
He is a relative new comer to national politics from my perspective. I've read that his critic's most severe attack is that he is lazy. That undoubtedly will change with his hat now in the ring. He does look a bit tired to me but that might not be a bad thing.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Storch, is your Fred Thompson quote genuine? :D
He is a relative new comer to national politics from my perspective. I've read that his critic's most severe attack is that he is lazy. That undoubtedly will change with his hat now in the ring. He does look a bit tired to me but that might not be a bad thing.
you will find that he is a long time beltway insider, going back to 1967. he was co-chief counsel to the senate watergate committee. he was responsible for the question that brought down president nixon. the question was asked by sen howard baker but it was thompson that thunk it first "what did the president know and when did he know it?"
he also posed this question to alexander butterfield, "are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the oval office of the president?"
he also worked as a lobbyist in DC from 1975 until 1990 IIRC
he's a brilliant man and yes the quotation is really his.
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lasz is right, about both the employers and the laws not being enforced. Sadly, so it seems.
The response he got in his letter, shows what is probably the most underlying truth.
It's not the way his rep's response is worded , it's the point of why.
They might have agreed with lasz, and stated what they would do...If lasz had included a 5 or 6-digit figure "campaign donation" check with his letter.
You have to face facts...business lobbies at every level, and the dollars scream louder than the voices of the constituency.
lasz's rep( or more likely the rep's jr. assistant) wrote that response knowing it was lame, but that there was no way in hell that they would endanger the contribution's that all the Farming Corp.'s, or any of the businesses', for that matter.
Both parties(Dem's and Repub's) Groom their interns that hope to gain office, to be receptive to money, and to hell with their morals. They know how to say the right things to get elected, and once they're in office, they just start milking the cash cow.
Don't quit writing letters, by any means...maybe, just maybe, it will wind up in the hands of someone who takes political office with the idea of a better U.S., and not a better income.
P.S. I know, shooting Illegals' trying to cross the border has been declared a big no-no.
But, I love to jugs full of water out in the desert with my Mini-14!
.223 40-grain hollowpoints' send water everywhere!
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What needs to be done is:
A. Enforce current border laws.
B. Stop them from coming over here by drawing a line down the border and posting a machine gun turret every 50 ft.
C. Kick out the legislators who are in it for money.
D. Get rid of the large time farmers and put back into place many small farmers that work for themselves.
E. Start making America what it was 50 years ago. Full of active, smart Americans who work hard and defend their country.