Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Citabria on June 28, 2007, 08:23:19 PM
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seems many of these conspiracy videos I have seen recently came out a year or so ago but I have just seen them. Though I am impressed by the overall level of research and information I can't wrap my head around a conspiracy 110 stories tallx2 wired every other floor with thermite cutting charges placed during short periods where the power was shut off with the only noticed evidence being workmen pushing bins to unused floors and lots of concrete dust reported by survivors in the weeks before 9/11.
however building 7 seems like a textbook demo job and the owner of the building seems to have accidentally addmited to blowing up the building deliberately in a controlled demolition on the same afternoon that the towers were hit. but this would require more than a few days preparation and the building was on fire when it was pulled or collapsed.
Ive gotten hooked on finding info on ways this building could fall as officially described which is more difficult from a position of physics and the conspiracy version of explosives which is more difficult from a position of motive, opportunity and plausibility.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDD113BF93AA25751C0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
this really dosnt help resolve anything one way or the other for me though I found it interesting.
kind of makes the fall of this building plausible and implausible at the same time.
in one sense it seems the building was heavily over engineered to make it viable for double height floors if needed by clients.
but it was also heavily reconstructed after it was built to add double height floors generators, fuel and boilers that could have compromised the buildings ability to withstand the level 2 earthquakes caused by the towers falling.
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See link at bottom for the Perdu University Animation
"Purdue University Recreates 9/11 in Science-Driven Animation
6/25/2007
By Paul McCloskey
"A Purdue University research team has developed a computer simulation of the Sept. 11, 2001 attack on the World Trade Center with an aim to helping build stronger buildings in the future.
Although there have been many graphical interpretations of the incident made, the Purdue team said its model takes into account the actual architectural dynamics of the buildings as they were hit.
"The crashes and computer models you often see on television are not scientifically accurate," said Purdue computer science professor Voicu Popescu, who, with Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering, developed the model.
The Purdue simulation took years to create, including "weeks of supercomputer time over a number of years to simulate the event in many credible angles of impact of the aircraft," said Sozen.
Like other simulations, the Purdue model shows that the heat of burning jet fuel rather than the impact itself caused the most damage to the buildings. The researchers said they hope their new model will help generate ideas for new structural support systems in the future.
The animation can be viewed from Purdue University's website at the link below.
A High Quality Physically Accurate Visualation of the Sept 11 Attacks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH02Eh44yUg)
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Aother thing about the collapse Or intentional collapsing theory that bothers me. is if you look at just about any other video of buildings being intentionally imploded.
IT always starts at the bottom with the building folding in.
I've yet to see one start at the top or near the top and the building collapse straight down
In searching for the info I just posted above I found this posting on another BBS
He says it better then I can
"The conspiracy theories ask you to believe something else, too. They ask you to believe that this same government that can't reliably deliver your mail (just ask anybody in the Lakeview area of Chicago), the same government that leaks secrets like a sieve, the same Bush administration that most of you seem to think is a bundle of incompetent boobs on just about every other subject under the sun is somehow going to be capable of orchestrating this conspiracy and somehow keep everyone involved with it from talking, even if someone is caught.
Now, THAT is a bit much to swallow if you ask me."
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yep.. that part has always bothered me too... hundreds of people in... in government fer christsakes... are keeping a secret? a secret that if told and proven would make the teller rich an famous beyond his dreams...
On the one hand.. we have a government who can't do anything right.. not even kill castro yet... it can orchestrate and cover up something so complex and full of variables as killing thousands of Americans with jet liners.
and.. then get osama to take credit for it publicly.
lazs
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The conspiracy theory's that abound, are not, just bush's admin. Even though realistically there are some very scarry figures in there. The conspiracy goes back alot further. And is much more imbedded. Bush probable didnt even know it. Most of it I feel involves money. LOTS of Money.
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I have always felt that the worst things the government has done to us have always been out of incompetence.... not so much evil intent... much less evil genius.
It seems that they are so clumsy that they hurt citizens.. their laws go amuck.. I even believe that the slaughter of the people at waco was out of incompetence and inabilty to control their agencies.
Now we are expected to believe that they pulled this one off without a bobble.. that hundreds of agents of the government are all in on it and keeping the secret.
Besides the fact that there are no facts that point to this being the case... it is simply not very possible being visited by aliens or the easter bunny is in the same plane of reality.
lazs
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Originally posted by 4deck
The conspiracy theory's that abound, are not, just bush's admin. Even though realistically there are some very scarry figures in there. The conspiracy goes back alot further. And is much more imbedded. Bush probable didnt even know it. Most of it I feel involves money. LOTS of Money.
:noid
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Given the great amount of time it would take to organize such a thing, and the large number of people involved, and the intense investigations that have gone on ever since, it is beyond the pale of human imagination that such a conspiracy could be kept secret.
On the other hand, conspiracy theorists can imagine a LOT.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Given the great amount of time it would take to organize such a thing, and the large number of people involved, and the intense investigations that have gone on ever since, it is beyond the pale of human imagination that such a conspiracy could be kept secret.
On the other hand, conspiracy theorists can imagine a LOT.
You really dont know anything about conspiracies.
Just to wake you up a little further.
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html
This is about the bohemian grove, and who the members are. This is who runs the world. And trust me, they keep secrets. Permenantly.
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get your aluminum foil here, classes on hat making forming soon
(http://www.foodservicedirect.com/productimages/WE632REYNs.jpg)
LOL
for those that can't/shouldn't wait for the classes to fill up:
(http://kcupery.home.isp-direct.com/hat.GIF)
LOL LOL LOL
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The Bohemian Grove is trying to take over the world!!?? Alex Jones!!?? :rofl
Bwaahaahaahaa!
That "Club" is no mystery. It's been around for over a century. American business and government leaders go there to get away from it all, let their hair down, act like junior high simps, and tell peepee jokes, and according to the New York Times, run around naked.
Satanic rituals.
They have a sacred owl on an island in the middle of a small lake with loudspeakers attached projecting the voice of Walter Cronkite during a ceremony called the Burning of Care: the symbolic destruction of earthly troubles. All this while the body of Care is ritually burned by some hooded figures.
They also have amphitheaters where plays are performed and speeches are given.
Ohhhh me! If Alex Jones were a lawyer he would be an ambulance chaser...and a starving one at that.:rofl
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You can say whatever you like. I dont just check out Alex Jones, he maybe a bit more on the extreme side. BUT IMHO the world is being run into the ground. I believe money is the root cause of it. Also I agree with Alex, in the fact that complecency is death. And alot of people are dying everyday due to disinformation.
Cheers
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And alot of people are dying everyday due to disinformation.
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And you fella have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel :D
PS: Hitler is still alive living in a glass jar in south america somewhere leading the 4th reich.
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Originally posted by 4deck
trust me
NO.
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Whats up with the rudeness.
Oh yeah Hitler didnt make it there, but I do know of a few who did, who also did work for us during the cold war.
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This is my all time favorite
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/100407_b_Secret.htm
And heres a link to vids.
Some take with a grain of salt, I dont think wearing aluminum foil is going to do anything for my fashion statement. If yuo dont believe whats out there then so be it. Dont mock me, for trying to stay informed. Censorship isnt here. Yet.
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one word, no rudeness or mockery intended: tooled
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don't take this personal guys keep your state of mind on an academic level in the sense of reading a dictionary like say wikepedia that openly explains multiple points of view and theories even outlandish ones.
understand theories of conspiracy or science are merely a hypothesis to explain an event or reaction and are not in themselves anything more than an attempt by their creators to understand anything under the sun that is not yet fully explainable.
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Originally posted by 4deck
This is my all time favorite
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/100407_b_Secret.htm
And heres a link to vids.
Some take with a grain of salt, I dont think wearing aluminum foil is going to do anything for my fashion statement. If yuo dont believe whats out there then so be it. Dont mock me, for trying to stay informed. Censorship isnt here. Yet.
this 1987 video in my opinion is very informative and interesting.
it seems quite authentic and done by true historians and it is intended as a warning and anyone watching it will see that it is not in the realm of hypothesis or theory but results and conclussions from previously proven events.
it is not disputed that there was 2.3 trillion dollars reported missing on 9/10/2001 from the defense cofers and no one knows where its at.
and it is my opinion that power without accountability will undermine any democracy. they are in direct conflict with eachother and the consitution will be an offensive word that threatens this unchecked power.
the government operates in heavy secrecy under the banner of security and safety for its citizens.
this is unconstitutional and is directly responsible for the fact that the US has been involved in constant warefare since ww2.
if it is desired to strive for the ideals set by the founders of this nation then the government must abolish its covert military nature and accept the burden of responsibility to its citizens for its actions.
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too bad fester ... never took you for a conspiracy kook
has any seen those moon rocks lately?
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So,,,getting to the bottom, if you take a couple of 737's that are juiced up and slam them into those towers (in front of a whole city), would the towers perhaps not fall?
After all they did, and to th surprize of Bin Laden who said he had not expected that the effect would have been that great.
Airliners slammed into the towers, and later on the structures collapsed. That is known.
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Originally posted by 4deck
Whats up with the rudeness.
Its a natural instinct to turn on those who are ****ing goofy.
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Originally posted by Eagler
too bad fester ... never took you for a conspiracy kook
has any seen those moon rocks lately?
wow I've known you a long time eagler.
thanks for the insult. always thought fondly of you every time I fought with and against ya online and always said hello when I saw ya.
as I have stated in this thread and the other I started on these touchy subjects I find all the theories to only be individuals attempts to understand events they can not fully explain in a way that suits their beliefs politically or scientifically or even emotionally.
The only thing I present as fact is accepted records of history that are not in dispute. the videos I enjoyed are the ones that contain historical accounts of past events that lead me to look into these historical events for myself due to the slant with which they were presented in most of them (the 1987 video is an exception. this is a pbs documentary and its validity is not suspect)
The arguments for 9/11 while compelling when first seen are on the whole generated by outsiders from the structural engineering community and therefore can not be accepted as truely expert opinions. not a single structural engineer supports the idea that these buildings would not fall after the beatings they sustained.
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Originally posted by Angus
So,,,getting to the bottom, if you take a couple of 737's that are juiced up and slam them into those towers (in front of a whole city), would the towers perhaps not fall?
After all they did, and to th surprize of Bin Laden who said he had not expected that the effect would have been that great.
Airliners slammed into the towers, and later on the structures collapsed. That is known.
767's
building 7 angus was what i was refering to as in debate as the National Institute of Standards and Technology is still investigating building 7 and are looking into the use of explosives. They did not investigate this building until last as it was not a source of loss of life and only resulted in property damage and loss.
The owner of this building claimed that the building was demolished and never retracted this statement
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Why is it that the conspiracy theorists can't seem to find one single participant to verify even one part of their story?
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Originally posted by Citabria
Snip~
The owner of this building claimed that the building was demolished and never retracted this statement
Was he a participant?
Did he take part of the planning?
Is he merely guessing at what happened?
Where is the demolition team hired for the job?
Etc., Etc., Etc.,?
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Originally posted by Citabria
as I have stated in this thread and the other I started on these touchy subjects I find all the theories to only be individuals attempts to understand events they can not fully explain in a way that suits their beliefs politically or scientifically or even emotionally.
But mankind has done this throughout history
Used to be they couldnt understand the sun moving across the sky to they applies theories which were later largely accepted as fact that the God Mercury traveled across the sky dragging the sun in a flaming chariot.
Whenever there has been somethign that people havent understood they more often then not have applied some sort of logic to explain, or blame it on to themselves in a way they can accept.
Reguardless of what the truth is.
And often, Cannot accept the truth merly because they dont like what the truth is.
Often for these people. Nothing bad can just happen. There has to be a reason for everything.
Secret societies that run the world is just plain absurd.
Not because I dont like it do I think that.
But the one thing thats held true over and over again both in my experience and throughout history is. So long as more then one person knows something. Nothing remains a secret.
and the more people that know something. The less time it remains a secret.
The way I see it. The only way a 9/11 conspiricy works is to paint a theory of my own.
Lets run with the missing money shall we. As that ties in nicely.
CIA job (this works because if all the cloak and daggar stories associated with them)
Operatives in the CIA made off with the money. To cover their tracks they conspired the entire 9/11 event to remove any evidence.
Top teir members of the operation concluded that as I have said. The less people that know the more likely it is to remain a secret.
They have the operatives involved get on planes in an order to distance themselves from the scene.
Not knowing they were being set up as the Hijackers.
Yes the highjackers were in reality. CIA operatives
The highjacking. or so the operatives thought was to take place in order to distract attention away from the missing money.
the highjackers thought they were to escape to cuba where they werte to meet with Castro under a secret deal
In reality. The planes were taken over by remote control wresting control away from the pilots. Their radios were then rendered useless and dummy transmissions were made to the tower.
and the planes were remotely controled and guided by way of a homing device into their targets at specific locations both in the WTC and pentagon where other operatives involved in the robberly were at the time of the impacts.
The plane that went dont in Pennsy wa to be an insurace policy in case something went wrong on the other 3 planes.
But the plan came off without a hitch and the 4th plane wasnt needed so it was guided by remote control into the ground.
Thus by the crashing of the planes into their specific locations they in essence follwed the first rule of assasination. "Assasinate the assasin"
the got rid of all the loose ends and only the upper echelon of those that knew of the real events are alive to keep the secret.
The point being.
The only way a 9/11 consiricy works. is if you kill off everyone with any knowlege of it
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SaburoS
Where you been?
Havent seen you postng in a while.
BTW.
Seems I made the right choice.
thanks for the help :aok
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
SaburoS
Where you been?
Havent seen you postng in a while.
BTW.
Seems I made the right choice.
thanks for the help :aok
Been really busy!
Fantastic! Hey, you had a 50/50 chance! heh.
Glad you chose wisely.
:aok
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Was he a participant?
Did he take part of the planning?
Is he merely guessing at what happened?
Where is the demolition team hired for the job?
Etc., Etc., Etc.,?
Here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1340351950774479027&q=wtc+7+pulled&total=198&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) is the owner of the WTC buildings, Larry Silverstein, describing what took place. His spokeswomen said he was speaking of the firefighters, "pull the firefighters", but it seems like he said "it" not "them". Of course "it" is open to interpretation. Shucks.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Been really busy!
Fantastic! Hey, you had a 50/50 chance! heh.
Glad you chose wisely.
:aok
In hindsight it was more like 80-20.
I can see that now. Guess I saw it then too
I coulda really made a putz of myself
One of those rare moments where the head over rules the heart lol
Funny how things play out sometimes
Anyway. Good to see you posting again
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Originally posted by Dadano
Here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1340351950774479027&q=wtc+7+pulled&total=198&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) is the owner of the WTC buildings, Larry Silverstein, describing what took place. His spokeswomen said he was speaking of the firefighters, "pull the firefighters", but it seems like he said "it" not "them". Of course "it" is open to interpretation. Shucks.
Here is a better one
He was referring to Building 7. Not the twin towers
"pelted by debri when the north tower collapsed. 7 burned into late afternoon. Allowing occuants to evacuate to safety"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1340351950774479027&q=wtc+7+pulled&total=198&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Here is a better one
He was referring to Building 7. Not the twin towers
"pelted by debri when the north tower collapsed. 7 burned into late afternoon. Allowing occuants to evacuate to safety"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1340351950774479027&q=wtc+7+pulled&total=198&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Um, yes. (see title of thread):aok
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Originally posted by Dadano
Um, yes. (see title of thread):aok
LMAO
Well I never claimed to be master of the obvious :aok
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Conspiracies, whether real or imagined, are usually based on fact.
So conspire this.
1986. Lybian waters. USS America.
Defining the 20 NM limit.
French EMbassy first target hit during raid.
WHY.
I know exactly why :lol
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Originally posted by 4deck
Conspiracies, whether real or imagined, are usually based on fact.
So conspire this.
1986. Lybian waters. USS America.
Defining the 20 NM limit.
French EMbassy first target hit during raid.
WHY.
I know exactly why :lol
Incorrect.
Legends usaully have some basis in fact
you have your quotes wrong even
Must be a conspiracy LOL
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You dont need these things to have a conspiracy theory:
Proof.
Common Sense.
And these things to help you along:
The ability to ignore any evidence that doesnt fit your theory.
A beleif that you are "special" and are one of an "elite few" who sees the truth.
Thats all you need. In other words, if you see the world through the eyes of a child, conspiracy theories are probably your thing...
Oh I forgot, being drunk is not a detriment, and can actually help your theory along in many cases.
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Originally posted by 4deck
And alot of people are dying everyday due to disinformation.
Really? Name one.
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Originally posted by 4deck
Conspiracies, whether real or imagined, are usually based on fact.
So conspire this.
1986. Lybian waters. USS America.
Defining the 20 NM limit.
French EMbassy first target hit during raid.
WHY.
I know exactly why :lol
Yeah, so do I. A bomb hit the wrong target.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Why is it that the conspiracy theorists can't seem to find one single participant to verify even one part of their story?
In some of the video's that Citabria has linked to.....when they talk about the buildings being demolished instead of just falling because of severe structural damage, they actually have tape of folks that say they heard explosions.
Although in one, they claim the collapse started at the very top, then show a view of the Tower collapsing but you can't see if the collapse started at the top floor. In an entirely different video, you get to see the same Tower collapse and the collapse begins at the damaged floors with the floors above falling together.
While some of what they say is interesting, and some is actually compelling....they don't account for the fact that bin-Laden admitted to the entire plot, or just plain ignore it.
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Originally posted by Citabria
however building 7 seems like a textbook demo job and the owner of the building seems to have accidentally addmited to blowing up the building deliberately in a controlled demolition on the same afternoon that the towers were hit.
I saw the video on this, he says that there were so many deaths already that he "pulled" the firefighters out that were trying to save the building. After the twin towers went down it seems like a reasonable action on his part. People are trying to spin it as if he meant "pull" the building down. Kinda stuoopid that a guy who had the ability to plan and conduct a building demolition on such short notice would "accidentally" admit it.
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Originally posted by Dadano
Here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1340351950774479027&q=wtc+7+pulled&total=198&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) is the owner of the WTC buildings, Larry Silverstein, describing what took place. His spokeswomen said he was speaking of the firefighters, "pull the firefighters", but it seems like he said "it" not "them". Of course "it" is open to interpretation. Shucks.
Sure, he said "pull it"
...and that means?
Like I said, where are the participants of the actual event?
Where's the fire commander? He shouldn't be hard to locate.
He's not being quoted by the conspiracy theory folks because he didn't give any order to demolish the building.
"Pull it" can mean "pull the mission, get your men out of there."
"It" = "mission"
More plausible than "them", no?
But that's just not good enough for the conspiracy folks. :noid
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Originally posted by 4deck
Conspiracies, whether real or imagined, are usually based on fact.
So conspire this.
1986. Lybian waters. USS America.
Defining the 20 NM limit.
French EMbassy first target hit during raid.
WHY.
I know exactly why :lol
So if a conspiracy is imagined, how can it be based on "fact"?
:noid
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Originally posted by Mace2004
I saw the video on this, he says that there were so many deaths already that he "pulled" the firefighters out that were trying to save the building. After the twin towers went down it seems like a reasonable action on his part. People are trying to spin it as if he meant "pull" the building down. Kinda stuoopid that a guy who had the ability to plan and conduct a building demolition on such short notice would "accidentally" admit it.
Don't you know?
He's supposed to not be human. He's supposed to use perfect English even in trying times. After all seeing your own people murdered from our Nation's worst terror attack shouldn't really affect us.
Yeah, he was part of this grand conspiracy of murdering our own for the insurance payoff for his damaged building. The profits must of been HUGE!
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Originally posted by Citabria
wow I've known you a long time eagler.
thanks for the insult. always thought fondly of you every time I fought with and against ya online and always said hello when I saw ya.
and in game will continue, it'll just be easier dying to you now after seeing this thread :)
seriously, you can spin everything & anything into some deep dark secret. It usually does nothing but cloud the simple truth while getting the 4deck types all worked up.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
So if a conspiracy is imagined, how can it be based on "fact"?
howdy SaburoS
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Eagler, Fester's looking for working hypothesies, not concluding they are right.
Exploring possibilities and making conclusions with only speculation is the difference between sensible thought and paranoia.
Fester isn't a crackpot, he's pointing out the facts. If he were paranoid-conspiracist, he'd suggest what the shape all those dots are making without factual connections. That's a classic tell-tale of paranoid delusions (obsession with a favorite perceived rorschach pattern rather than an impartial and all-encompassing perspective) that he doesn't have.
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Originally posted by Eagler
howdy SaburoS
Howdy Eagler
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OK lets for a moment assume Build 7 was intentionally brought down.
As has been already pointed out in the video.
The twin towerws had already collapsed,
Everyone from Building 7 had been evacuated
And the fire dept couldnt guarentee they would be able to contain the blaze in build 7.
and Im not sure if it was in that video or somewhere else I saw that 7 was damaged to the point where the Fire dept was essentially predicting its eventual collapse anyway
Wouldnt it make sense to intentionally bring the building down rather then risk even more lives then had already been lost?
Outside of the twin towers comming down I fail to see what the big deal is one way or the other.
If your going ot look for a conspiracy. You need to provide evidence that the twin towers were intentionally brought down by something other then the result of the two planes hitting it
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thats the problem with all of this conspiracy stuff is that no one making these claims besides the janitor that saved 100 people and some survivors was there.
You can not trust this stuff as proven fact
almost all of it is an alternative viewpoint or theory that is coming from sources outside looking in.
not that it is wrong or right but it is simply not verifiable it has to be viewed as such and not assumed to be fact.
in court it is called hearsay..
(wikepedia...)
The theory of the rule against Hearsay is that assertions made by human beings are naturally unreliable. It therefore becomes necessary to subject such forms of evidence to “scrutiny or analysis calculated to discover and expose in detail its possible weaknesses, and thus to enable the tribunal (judge or jury) to estimate it at no more than its actual value”
basically almost all of it (with a few exceptions) is second and thirdhand reports most of which conflict and sometimes the theories have no direct source or reference at all and are based on observation or what the author thinks happened.