Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -towd_ on February 10, 2000, 08:11:00 AM
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ok here it is this is my opinion and if you dissagree great. but there are people (mostly in fu4cs) that have a strage sort of lag that seems to alow them to hit you no matter what evasive u use ( case in point you lure a fu4c into a situation where he has to do a 230 deg 20 g turn to stay with you and he does at 400+ knots) or you lure same hog into a hight vert stall and wach him fall down uncontrolled and 3 sec later get hits , astonished i call out what the hell and he says i have cable and constant great ping it must be your crappy analog.
this is not true i have seen it before remember 1999 in the early days? it was simply impossible to avoid him he was laggin so bad he saw ya where you were not where you are bypassing you evasives and whacking you every time ( always e fighting cause in a dog fight this just gets um killed )
i am talkin about torq i have wached for weeks and am cnvinced his asycronous connect or some other syptom of his wideband is givein him a great advantage ( he seems to think its skill but 20 g turns and 5 sec lag kills arent my idea of skill)
ps these things dont happen with anyone else with my crapp anolog connect ( average 150 ping 49000 connect in texas)
i said it and and mean it ( after weeks of wachin him pile up huge sortys in the no skill hog )
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ps .my crappy connect
C:\WINDOWS>tracert hitechcreations.com
Tracing route to hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 106 ms 102 ms 101 ms 165.238.226.166
2 103 ms 102 ms 98 ms 1.beaumont-01-02rs.tx.dial-access.att.net [12.74
.16.1]
3 124 ms 123 ms 117 ms 165.238.254.105
4 120 ms 154 ms 120 ms gbr1-a30s4.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.127.13.53]
5 125 ms 123 ms 121 ms gr1-p350.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.123.16.169]
6 145 ms 141 ms 145 ms sl-gw17-fw-6-0-1-T3.sprintlink.net [144.232.193.
69]
7 144 ms 144 ms 141 ms sl-bb11-fw-2-3.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.105]
8 145 ms 146 ms 138 ms sl-gw13-fw-8-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.66]
9 148 ms 143 ms 141 ms sl-dnetfw-1-0-T3.sprintlink.net [144.228.137.6]
10 156 ms 149 ms 158 ms applink-1.usdlls.savvis.net [216.90.2.66]
11 155 ms 170 ms 168 ms hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]
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You are doubling your posts towd, you posted this in the Training forum as well. I'll copy my response. Also you should realize that huge network attacks are being run on the net since Monday, so the Internet has big problems and many routers are under extremely heavy load. This is causing connect problems all over the Internet, regardless of someone's connection speed. In my answer below however, I am assuming that we are talking about lag, and not a connection hiccup or warp.
You need to film some of this towd, so we can really see what you mean.
I will say that Torque is a good pilot, and that is the reason he is racking up kills.
Also, his connect is only 1/2 of the equation remember. Your lag counts in the equasion as well. It may be the disparity in speeds that make things look a bit odd, but I can't imagine it's giving him any advantage. The problem I have with fellows that are lagged out more than I am is I sometimes mis-judge their threat potential. When a N1k driver pulls up under me, it sometimes looks like he won't be able to get his guns on me at all, but because of lag on his FE he makes the shot. That's just a fact of life in online gaming, and we all have to learn to adjust our perceptions a bit to compensate for it.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Well I have a little hypothesis:
Towd for starters if your pinging at 150ms that means about 1-2 tenths of a sec delay to the server. Combine that with about 1 tenth of sec for cable and DSL, Isdn etc..(Torques connect) They all ping under 100ms and usually about 50ms... Now thats just transit time from your client to server and then to your enemy's client. Now factor return packet time to your client for your enemy's imputs.
Now all in all on average the "True delay" of information between the 2 clients is anywhere from 500ms or higher for modem users to 200ms for high speed access. Now thats about 3 tenths of a sec difference minimum. (adjust for net conditions)
No that being given go play someone in a highspeed game of Ping Pong with someone who is 3 tenths of sec faster than you. You can still win with skill but you are at a disadvantage.
The same is true with multiplayer games.. People with fast connects do have an advantage simply becuase their nano connectors are much faster than yours..(Matrix has you)
So yes I do notice that Torque pulls some BS but being a one of the first poeple to really get into multiplayer games(DOS Quakeworld)I understand exactly what torque is seeing. To him he probally thinks everbody is dud and and barely moves and hence do to his superior skill he just kills em. Now to us it appears as BS...But to him its very smooth.
My opinion on this matter is simple: people are always going to have faster equipment for multiplayer games. Suck it up.. and wait for your turn to get high bandwidth to level the playing field.
I'm a freaking Network Professional and at my residence all I can get is a 56k modem that connects at 40-44k....My only other option is Direct PC and we all know the latency issues with satellite. Now granted at work I have access to T-1 but work doesn't have my Fatty joystick and chair etc.. hence no HT Aces High for me after work.... Everyday I go back to my bandwidth dungeon while little Johnny, 2 miles from my location is running his MP3 server at 800000kb/s, smoking crack and planning his next DOS attack.
Well hopefully this will enlighten you.
Regards,
DoctorYo
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DoctorYo,
Aces High doesn't handle lag and damage the same way the FPS type games do. What you see on your FE in AH is what counts for you, and the same for the other fellow. FPS games model damage through what the server see's, so your connect to the server is the only part of the equasion that matters in something like Quake. If your connect to the server is faster, you have an advantage in FPS type games. In Aces High, it is what the FE see's that counts, so if I shoot you on my FE, you get damage. The result being that the lag is a combination my lag and your lag. The total speed of that circuit is going to determine the lag, and it doesn't mater who is the slower part of the circuit. Although there is a delay between when your plane does something, and when the other fellow see's it, that delay is fairly constant. It means that both players have the same issue to deal with, regardless of which one has the faster connection. With the limitations of these planes and the smoothing code HTC uses, you don't need the ultra-fast movements that you need in Quake, so that lag is even less of a factor.
There may be a small difference in how long that delay is, but I can't see that giving anybody a significant advantage. The lag will be the time it takes packets to go between my FE and his FE, so regardless of who's part of that circuit is slower, the speed of the circuit is the same for both players. In any case, neither fellow's plane will appear to do anything "un-natural" because of lag, it just appears to happen at a later point in time to the guy on the other end. The only time this can bite you is when you look at an enemy's nose position and it doesn't look like he has a shot at you. On his FE, he is closer, or pointed more at you than it looks, because of the lag, so it is possible for him to shoot you without ever looking like he pulled lead on your FE. However, in a turn-fight he will have the same impression you do. It's quite interesting.. in a tail-chase on the deck with lag, both guys can think they are winning the fight. <G> You just have to adjust your perceptions a bit because of the lag factor.
I do wonder what something like a sattelite connection would do though. In that scenario, you would recieve updates much faster than you could send them, so you could conceivably have an un-even lag situation between two players. However, HTC's required data rate is quite low, so I can't imagine there would be much disparity in the updates even in this situation.
FYI, I'm in the network admin bus. myself, so feel free to break into a technical explanation of your point if you wish. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-10-2000).]
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Yes, what DoctorYo and Leph said.
Got Leph the other day in a Nikki exactly as he described (he has gotten me far more). He took it for what it was, I just wasn't quite where he thought I was. No biggie.
Be careful. I was on last night when this all happened, and there were many people commenting on the warps they were seeing. And, as has been widely publicized, there is a reason (Cyberpunks). He said he would relog, but you continued to berate him. I know he finished the mission before he relogged. I know he got 4 kills out of it. Heck, if I was up and noticed lag, I would head for base. If I was attacked I would defend myself. Don't know if that is what happened, but hey, at least he agreed to relog after the mission.
I've flown around Torque for a long time; it does pi$$ you off when he gets you over and over, but I really don't think he cheats to do it. Mighty1 is another one that can pick you out of a crowd over-and-over and wax you. And with some guys, if you harrass them on open long enough, they will do exactly that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hehe Kieren, that's exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that bit. <G>
Every once in a while I forget the environment I'm in and believe my eyes. In the encounter I mention I was engaging multiple bogies, and was trying to blow past Kieren's N1k to try a shot on another guy or maybe escape. I rolled over and checked him out as he started to pull to me and though, "he's too late, can't get his guns on me", so I kept flying straight. Ooops. Kieren ## shot down Lephturn. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Note to self, don't forget about lag again when judging the enemy's position and E state. <G>
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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lets talk shop...
client A: 56k connect say at 40k average becuase upload time is only V.34
Client B: DSL 1.5mbit/s down 400,000kps up.
average about 800,000kps
Alright client A is pinging at about 200ms and he's engaged with client B who is pinging at 50ms. Now the server is just a relay between the 2 clients(checksums anti cheating etc..) When client A is talking to the server the minimum time for him to get a response is 200ms. Now client B can get his responses from the server at a rate of 4 times the amount of Client A. Now this is dependent on how fast the server responds and how much pipe it pushes to its clients in any given amount of time.
so for every update that client A gets, client B is getting 2 or more updates depending on server limit. Hence, Client A notices slight warps especially in the vector/distance of the client B(not really warps just not getting the updates as fast as client B is giving them to the server.) Client B notices Client A stopping then moving sometimes freezing in place or continuing on same vector even though client A has made a change in movement; the data has not reached the server yet and becuase of that client B is seeing Client A continue on same vector and is fair game to shoot..Note this is all at the level of millisecs but they do add up..
Granted this is not a FPS but even with the dynamics of the "smoothing coding" I still think the faster connection has an advantage. Only HTC will know the exact implecations of that.. I could use network analyzer but that would violate my TOS. So well leave that one to Pyro.
But on a raw network level of OSI what I said is correct by the limitations of packet based networking. What HTC does with packets in a Application level your guess is good as mine.
Also note to prove this I have played Warbirds on a fast connect and I will tell you that you do have an advantage. Now for AH this may be different(DSL users hook your old analog up and connect to get me some more info.)
In any event this post is that of opinion and by no means is it law. Only the creators of the game can tell you the exact dynamics of their code; and I bet they are smart and follow the simple philosophy of "not teaching your cat to read."
Regards,
DoctorYO
Edited: "Checkcums to checksums" huh huha haahuh Beavis.
[This message has been edited by DoctorYO (edited 02-10-2000).]
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Fact is Towd,ya have to get off the runway to engage & kill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I kill Chutes, Sheep & TOWD on the runway!
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Wardog = 357th Pony Express =
== Death From Behind ==
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Thanks for the detail Dryo.
we should punt this thread every 2 weeks.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Ive wacked torque to many times to belive he has a fudge of some kind. He is just good.
As for the rest of it. I agree comepleatly. Dodgeing HO,s is far from easy. What you see aint what u get.
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DoctorYO,
While your network analysis is fine, your assumptions are not, IMHO. See, it doesn't matter how often I get updates from the server, because I get them from you, not the server. You are still thinking like a Quake Server Operator. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Ok, the server handles the updates, but I can still only get updates you send, and at the speed you send them. You can only get them as fast as I can send and you can recieve. Yeah it goes through the server, but the total latency of that process is the latency of the entire circuit, not just my part to the server, or from the server to you.
You are right, in that only HTC really knows how this is all working. I don't expec them to get into great detail in explanation because that is proprietary info. However, this is my understanding of how the system works. Hoof went into it a bit in this piece http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/netlag.htm (http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/netlag.htm) which should be required reading for all WB/AH players. I believe AH uses a similar system.
The only thing I would add is that bandwidth is largely irrelevant. You can play this game on 19.2k connection, and as long as you have a low-latency/high quality connect, it will run just fine. That tells us that the ammount of information is not great. Also, the smoothing code and what not is designed to use this system, as is the server code. I would wager the update rate is quite low, and likely optimised for a 28.8k connection. So although latency will still have some effect on the total time-delay between two opponents, I think that effect is greatly reduced by all the other factors I mentioned above.
Again, the only situation in which I see a possible imbalance would be one where one person's connection has much higher latency outbound than it does inbound. Even then, unless that outbound connection was slower than a 28.8k modem, I can't see noticing a big difference.
I have a cable modem, but no regular modem. I'll install AH at my folk's place when I can and see if I can see the difference on a 28.8k connect. If anybody else could try that, it would be interesting to see your impressions.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Not wanting to stir up problems, but TOWD, your attitude is one of the ones I was referring to on the General Discussion board under "Paying to Play-Pilot quality" in regards to people talking trash, etc., and how I had hoped this would decrease with pay for play. You, among others, seem to have the opinion that your kills are because of your God-like skills, but the kills of others are for other, non-skill related reasons. Yes, there are many factors working here... lag, connection speeds, end-user equipment,occasional bugs, etc. I have seen some bizarre things playing AH, but really nothing that couldn't be fairly easily explained by the above factors. What I have seen that IS totally preventable, is people who feel that each kill is cause to go on the primary radio channel and brag about it, and any death is cause to start wondering if someone is doing something to get an unfair advantage. As in my other post, none of this has been directed at me personally, but I have seen it happening. Don't get me wrong, you are by far not the only person acting this way, but you did post this particular thread. Heck, maybe when I saw you doing all this it was just a "bad personality night". Lighten up man, and realize that when ya get a kill, the only real compliment is the one that comes from the OTHER person, and realize also, that yes, you will be killed, yes an analog connection probably puts you at a disadvantage, and yes it is (gasp) just a "game". I feel the same frustrations as you do at times, believe me. I live so far out in the country, I can only connect at 28.8 on my 56k modem, so few people can complain more than I about crappy connection speeds.. pings that kill 2 seconds after the enemy flew past, etc., etc., etc.
Take a breath, hit the engine start key, and let yer guns do the talking... isn't that really what it's all about?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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we asked him to log on kill one he was on kill 5 befor he would ( people were hollerin for him to quit padding his score) he killed caveman and he never even saw him why? he poped up right behind him on my fe and several others . anyway my point was lost and i will not post on this subject again
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I have two computers that I play Aces High on. One uses a 56k modem and usually connects around 31600. The other is on a 100baseT network and connects at incredible speed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I can honestly say that the networked computer is easier to fly on. Here are the main differences I've noticed:
1. There is much less warping.
2. It seems to take fewer hits to destroy an enemy plane while using the network computer.
3. It is much easier to judge which way someone is going.
4. The difference is NOT really that great. The main difference is that everything appears smoother, hence the above differences.
IMO framerate is the most important factor for success in this game. You really NEED 25+ fps to shoot accurately.
It is true, however, a faster connection does give you a small advantage in some cases. (The quality of connections over the past week or so have been poor enough that I really haven't noticed a difference between my networked and modem computers.)
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Well,
Lephturn sorry to raise your bloodpressure.
DoctorYO
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Hey, no bloodpressure raise here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I'm all for open discussion of the differences and what people are really seeing. I still think my evaluation of how the process works is correct at this point, but I would be very interested to hear any other ideas.
Bloom25, could you possibly make a couple of films? That would be great so we could all compare. Also, you mention framerates, are the two computers different in terms of CPU, video, etc? As you mention, the speed of the game itself could a big factor here, not the net connection at all. Of course you would see less warping on a higher-quality connection, no argument there. The best way to compare would be to test with two different connections on the same machine.
Thanks for the info. bloom25!
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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The networked machine is a 440LX based Celeron 400 with 8MB Intel I740 card (96 MB ram). I usually get around 20 - 40 fps on this computer. The other is a SE440Bx-2 based Cel 366 with an ATI RAGE Pro based 8 MB card (64 MB ram). It usually gets around 12 - 20 fps. (My biggest annoyance with this card is it tries to render the prop, slowing framerate WAY down and making it impossible to see out the front of a fighter at times. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ) If I ever remember to turn on the film recorder, I'll go ahead and post a couple films. (Ever notice that you usually get killed in the films you shoot, but win when you don't film? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Being a rookie, I don't know nothin' but what people tell me and I read on the internet ...
In Dawn of Aces there's one pilot who's pure death, I hate to see him on. I hear one ping and I'm dead. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I was told that the reason for his phenomenal success against everybody else is that he's runnin' ISDN and has the two lines of hi-speed connection ...
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Looks like the issues of netlag and all have been covered well here, so I'll comment on torques' skill. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As TT said, Torque is just a damn good stick. When he was in WB's he would kill, kill, kill, no mercy LOL.
Back then, I had been told that he just had good aim, and if you got him one on one, he was nothing. Boy did that turn into a crock of crap.
Torque is a very good pilot with an awesome aim. Get used to getting killed by him. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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hblair
JG77 WB's Historical Arena & Events
The ASSASSINS WB's Main Arena, ACA, & Aces High
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/Spitflame.JPG)
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 02-10-2000).]
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They say your nobody 'til somebody accuses you of cheating. I guess torque made it before me. Crap! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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nah...i wasn't gonna post this but what the hell eh..
Tracing route to hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 27 ms 23 ms 23 ms 24.112.248.1
2 27 ms 23 ms 23 ms 10.1.66.1
3 23 ms 24 ms 25 ms r1-fe0- 0.rdc1.on.home.net [24.2.9.2]
4 25 ms 23 ms 24 ms bb2-ge2-0-1000sx.rdc1.on.wave.home.net [24.2.9.9
]
5 28 ms 29 ms 29 ms c1-pos9-3.bflony1.home.net [24.7.72.253]
6 34 ms 35 ms 47 ms c1-pos3-0.hrfrct1.home.net [24.7.67.210]
7 35 ms 36 ms 35 ms c1-pos4-3.nwhnct1.home.net [24.7.67.254]
8 36 ms 41 ms 41 ms c1-pos1-0.nycmny1.home.net [24.7.65.102]
9 39 ms 41 ms 41 ms c1-pos8-0.cmdnnj1.home.net [24.7.65.229]
10 42 ms 48 ms 47 ms sl-bb12-pen-0-3.sprintlink.net [144.232.8.93]
11 79 ms 77 ms 78 ms sl-bb11-fw-5-2.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.238]
12 76 ms 78 ms 81 ms sl-bb13-fw-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.166]
13 82 ms 76 ms 77 ms sl-gw13-fw-0-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.62]
14 81 ms 83 ms 83 ms sl-dnetfw-1-0-T3.sprintlink.net [144.228.137.6]
15 88 ms 83 ms 83 ms applink-1.usdlls.savvis.net [216.90.2.66]
16 87 ms 88 ms 83 ms hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]
Trace complete.
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 02-11-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 02-11-2000).]
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Wow bloom25, that's a really crappy framerate on the ATI machine. I'm surprised. Have you diddled drivers around any? BTW, I'm running a Celery 366 with only 64Megs of RAM... but my Celery is running at 500 and I've got a V3 2000. I get 30-50 fps.
The large difference in framerates kindof negates the comparison. You can't tell how much of the problem is because of the crappy video card and video problems. I'm guessing it's a lot of the problem. On the up side, you can pick up a V3 2000 dirt cheap if you want to upgrade that box. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And yeah, turning on the film recorder (when I remember) is the kiss of death for some reason. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Gator, it sounds like the fellow on DoA is just a good gunner. ISDN is pretty sucky compared to cable and xDSL, so I'm sure there are fellows with much better connections playing the game. It's not because of his connection, he's just good. You guys are lucky Garner hasn't been flying here lately. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
CC that TT, when they start calling you a cheater, you know you are kickin' ass. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I'll never forget flying the P47D in WB when it first came out. After a week or so I got quite proficient in it. The wailing and cries of "cheater" when I turned 51's into chaff was great. Damn did it make me smile. <G> "You out-turned my 51 in a P47! You must be cheating!" LOL.
BTW, Torque has a nice connect.. but it's not that fantastic. I know there are others around with better ones.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-11-2000).]
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--- Lephturn: ---
And yeah, turning on the film recorder (when I remember) is the kiss of death for some reason
--- end ---
The film recorder must be the most evil invention ever. It has caused more deaths than any other entity in the game. If you see the warning of a incoming 'recording' on your screen there is no way to dodge out of harm's way. No missile is so accurate and lethal as the gun camera. It hits the target each and every time regardless of altitude, attitude or if you wave a dead chicken or not over the computer. Simply put I think the lethality, roll rate and speed of the gun camera are over modeled.
//fats
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> Gator, it sounds like the fellow on DoA is just a good gunner.
Yikes, I wish you hadn't said that. I don't consider cheating a problem, but don't ask any questions on main channel since others are quick to assume that's what's going on. But, it's a little difficult to write off one-ping kills to being a "good gunner", my experience is that those WWI kites normally take more than a lucky snap shot to go down ...
Or am I missing packets from him showing I'm being shot?
Like I said, I doubt anyone's cheating (it's only a game, anyway), but am surprised that it can be written off as "good gunner".
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i know i said i wouldent post but its a different subject. i intended no accusation of cheatin just fly several hours a nite for months and think somthin ( not induced by torq) is screwy with his connect. cause he seems to defy nature ( phisics ) hundreds of hours fightin hunderds of guys and i didnt see this sort of stuff, with him i did so i said so , shure that torq is a stand up guy and NOT CHEATIN ( but im gettin wideband as soon a possible)
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I can't really comment on that particular situation Gator, but I am loath to call "cheat" unless I have evidence. It is always possible that somebody finds a hack I suppose. Shrug. Luckily you are not talking about Aces High. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Towd, I have one film going up on my website later today of Hristo (As Enemy) and Torque battling it out. Torque wins, but through skill and not through any un-natural actions on his part. All I'm saying is if you see somebody acting weird, FILM it. When we can all check out the film, with trails on, we will be able to see exactly what you are talking about. If there is some obvious weirdness, then we can start analysing from there. The trails make it really easy to see warps and weird bahaviour, so it should be a good tool. Until we see a film though, we can't be sure that it's not just your perception of things that is a bit off. No offense meant. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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I think Lephturn has hit what is really the core point: don't accuse anyone of cheating unless you have definitive proof.
The film recorder is the perfect tool for this.
Anything else would seem unsubstantiated and solves nothing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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> I can't really comment on that particular situation Gator, but I am loath to call "cheat" unless I have evidence.
Bummer, I guess I wasn't clear. Not sure how it may have happened, but if anyone thinks I'm talking about someone cheating, that was not my intention. I thought I said it two times in the post that "I doubt anyone's cheating", but perhaps that wasn't clear enough. My original post related a discussion about faster comms, and my other post was intended to question that the issue can only be "superior gunnery skills" or "cheating", since I am reluctant to dismiss that there are "technical" factors at work.
- If I thought someone was cheating, I'd take it to "the management", with "proof".
- That not being the case, I'm surprised that many (most?) believe it is fast comms, and others dismiss it as superior gunnery skills.
- I am sure superior gunnery skill is involved, but I question that maybe there is something else also going on, perhaps that packets showing being shot are being discarded somewhere?
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I have 33.6k modem, but I have used ISDN and even cable modem, but, I didn't see bandwith give anymore advantage than reduce of ping time.
Simply, 33.6k did seem to transfer about same amount of stuff between the server and computer as cable modem or ISDN, only difference were in ping times.
Also, I have noted that in some cases, cable modem might cause your plane to have miniwarps in others FEs. (this might have something to do with lost packets, cable modems can have alot those if network is being used alot at the time)
What comes to torque, I think its just the N1K2 he flies :P
It's one boring kickass plane, because you really can't outturn or outrun it in a ETO plane. (kick it back to PTO, leave us ETO guys have ETO planes, our planes are not made to meet requirements to kill japs, but ETO planes.)
Gator, I can still kill him with 33.6k modem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) doesn't need ISDN...
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Well I've been reading this post and have to admit that, warp or no warp, massive ping times or short ping times, I have been shot down by everyone who posted here! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
So all of you can calculate this (*)!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 02-11-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 02-11-2000).]
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I know some one probably mentioned it, but it is often just the "Perception" of being out turned. When in all probablity you ARE NOT being outurned. It just appears to so be so.
Much can be said about the utilization of a good "Lead Turn". The problem with "Lead turns" is that they are hard to recognize by looking at a computer CRT. More often the NME plane appears to be pointed in one direction, but actually pointed in another direction. This can throw you off.
Recogize the movements required for lead turns. Look at the turn, but not the direction the NME plane is pointed. The computer will fool you.
Good Luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
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Yes, Lephturn, I've got the newest drivers available, along with DX7a. The problem is not drivers or computer, it's the card itself. It attempts to render the prop, making a swirling grey blob in front of me. In any external view, I get 35 + fps. (If we could turn off the prop graphics that would be great.) It is nearly impossible to shoot on this computer while flying a fighter. (A long time ago I saw a post by Hangtime describing a friends computer that he set up for AH. He had the same card and same problem. Hangtime, if you read this, can you tell me if you were ever able to solve this problem. It's driving me crazy!) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
My other machine is just fine. All I get is a little orange ring near the edges of where the prop should be. Can anyone who has this problem please tell me if they were able to correct it. The video card is an ATI Expert (@work) (ATI Rage Pro chipset type) with 8 MB ram.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Need to post some more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The one thing I forgot to add that is truely the greatest advantage for me with a high speed connection is the fact that you don't get killed 2 seconds after you fly past someone. It is also pretty easy to see if the tracers being fired at you are anywhere close as well. When at home on the weekends, (I am now), I have to use the modem on my 366 celery, and tracers ALWAYS look like they are WAY off when a bomber is shooting at you for example. I tried to film a couple things earlier tonight, but everytime I turned the thing on, my death was always the result.
I will need to add another post to the stupidity awards. I made a perfect pass on a b26 and blew off his wing and send him spiraling to the ground. It looked so cool that I turned on the recorder and began to circle his position, watching him go down. Just as he hit the ground, BANG, PING, BOOM, "System: Handy #1 shot down bloom25." Not only did I never see him, because I was filming the b26, I lost the kill as well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
So that is what I get for all my work attempting to film something. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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D'oh, we all get killed using the recorder... but losing the kill too bites!
BTW Bloom25, did I mention that a V3 2000 can likely be had in the US for $50? That's all it would cost to fix your video problems and get a great framerate out of your celery.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
D'oh, we all get killed using the recorder... but losing the kill too bites!
BTW Bloom25, did I mention that a V3 2000 can likely be had in the US for $50? That's all it would cost to fix your video problems and get a great framerate out of your celery.
Or even a TNT1, thats what I have and it runs at 40-50 with the same set up as you bloom.
Torque:
Annoying to fight against. Cant put my finger on it but must have something to do with being shot down. It would be in the best interests of HTC to not allow him to play.
Connect speed.
I am running at 28k, moving to ADSL next week. Will post eval of difference.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew