Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texasmom on June 29, 2007, 11:31:17 AM
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Hajo's car thread made me think of this.
For you younger folks, did you learn to drive on stick or automatic? Or if you've got teens, did you teach them stick or automatic? What's your preference, and why?
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I learned on an old Ford F-150 with 3-speed on a column.
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Never touched a stick, Have always drove autos
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Learned on auto, drive nothing but manual boxes since.
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All the kids in my nearby family are expected to learn to drive in a stick, with a transition to automatics later. We're operating under the assumption that front-loading the extra coordination and planning of driving a stick will help make them a better driver in the future (even when driving automatics) because they'll have learned under slightly tougher circumstances and will be more aware of the role the engine plays.
The two pedals, "One stop, one go" is great for most drivers once they've learned, but makes for a less than ideal training platform, in my opinion.
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I have the Go pedal down, Still having issues with that stop pedal.
:rolleyes:
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slamming the 'go' and 'stop' pedals at the same time is fun :D
Someone should know what this causes
i think i can drive a stick :noid
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Stick, though todays automatics get just as good mpg's so unless you've got a sports car or are towing heavy loads I don't see that advantage any more.
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My Driving leasons began on a M-F and Oliver tractors, 67 Chevy pickup 3 on the tree then International pickup truck (5 speed). Mostly driving in hay fields and around the barns. basically learning the clutch and shifting. Actually learning to drive on real roads was a 63 Chevy Corsair, (Dark Blue, coicedence? ) automatic with the shifter on the dash board, it was either push button or a little flip lever (up Drive, middle Neutral, Down reverse) and 67 Camaro auto, 6 cyl.
Later came the Drivers Ed class, 1974 Cutlass 442, red and white.
first car, 1975 Vega GT, 4 speed.
I prefer sticks because they're fun and not as complicated as automatics
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Everyone learns on stick here so its the most common shifter in sold cars too.
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I learned on both a stick and automatic. I was "driving" a stick on the farm for several years before I got my license, but I never took it out of second gear or on the road. I didnt drive the stick on the road until my automatic car died.
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Probably always better to learn on a stick so you can drive whatever you want after getting a license.
Already some families don't have manual transmissions, and maybe some day the only sticks we'll have will be options on fancy auto/stick combo transmissions with clutches a relic of the past.
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I think I started out trying to learn how to drive a stick, but it just didn't make sense to me. You know... the whole, "Give it some gas and let the clutch out slowly..." bit.
Anyway... I think I took autoshop as a sophomore and when we got to the part about transmissions, I got it. From that point on, I could drive a stick simply because I knew how it worked.
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Airscrew, you sound a lot like me. I learned on Farmall tractors, a 68 Ford F100 and a 66 Diamond-T hauling hay when I was a kid. The Diamond-T had a 10 speed. Now I thought I was pretty hot stuff shifting that bad boy without using the clutch until Dad drove up in a 67 Pete with a 5 x 4. It had 2 sticks and I suddenly wasn't near as good as I thought I was.
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i learn to drive on a 74 CJ5 3 speed it was pretty easy though it had a 304 in it so all you really had to do was let the clutch out and it would go
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Stick!
And i don't care what some may say newer autos don't get the same mileage. The only "autos" that do are the manuals with electronic shifting. Cant remember how many time i came out to a car with a dead battery and all i had to do is get the car rolling and drop it into gear to start it, nearly impossible to do with an auto.
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I learned on a stick. IMO that's the way to go. Every car I've ever owned has been a stick shift, probably always will be as long as they keep selling them.
Cheers,
asw
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Never owned an auto, always driven a 5 speed manual. Apart from my Mini, that had 4 gears.
Have driven auto rental cars .
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manuel shift . better acceleration and hill climbing. better MPH .
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Don't forget fuel consumption. You lose something like 5 miles per gallon on an auto.
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stick.
most of my driving is on highways, and theres only 1-4 stops between my house and the highway, so it doesnt make that much difference to me.
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Originally posted by Furball
Don't forget fuel consumption. You lose something like 5 miles per gallon on an auto.
It's more like 0-3.
http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/top10_fuel.htm
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's more like 0-3.
I wasnt far off the 3 figure ;)
And... if you look at http://www.parkers.co.uk you will find that some auto's lose 5 miles or more :p
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I'd admit to learning on an auto first-My dad's '81 F-150, hauling Trash to the dump on a back road.
The first car I got in High school was a hand-me-down from my oldest brother: His 1969 390 c.i., 4 barrel carbed, Toploader 4 speed equipped Mach 1. Gas Mileage It didn't have; The ability to kick the rearend sideways with the tires spinning while grabbing 2nd gear, it did. One of my fondest memories.
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I learned first on an auto but before I got my license I also learned to drive a stick. Not teaching kids how to drive a stick is pretty silly... A female co-worker of mine never learned to drive a stick until her husband slipped and broke his ankle. The first time she ever drove a stick was while driving him to the hospital. She nearly wrecked the car a few times and pretty much abused the car jerking it around with the clutch. Killed the motor a dozen times just getting it out of the parking lot.
My point is that driving a stick is probably something everyone even remotely interested in their own safety and personal freedom ought to know how to do. It's a very useful life skill and it's not really that tough to learn. But some people get brainwashed into thinking it's some super tough skill, so they are afraid to learn and then they pass that fear to their kids. There isn't really all that much to it, and the time to learn isn't when you're driving your screaming spouse or child to the hospital, or during any other emergency when you simply must drive a stick shift car.
Regarding fuel efficiency, some of the newer continuously variable auto transmissions actually beat manual transmissions. And a properly sequenced auto will match or beat a poor driver who doesn't know when it's appropriate to shift a manual to get good gas mileage. With modern cars, it's probably a nearly un-noticeable difference except for people who short-shift religiously in order to maximize fuel efficiency, but even then most people would get a bigger increase in fuel efficiency if they would just slow down a bit and drive less aggressively overall.
I like auto transmissions for commuting and also for my wife because her left knee has an old injury that is aggravated by pushing in a clutch. But we both know how to drive both stick and auto so she'll never be stuck unable to drive a car because she doesn't know how.
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Also with an auto there's HP loss at the rear wheels. It's even worse if there a IRS involved. Don't believe me?
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/proofofpower.jpg)
Both manual tranny's. Yet the '98 Trans Am put down more HP than the '98 Corvette.
:noid
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I learned on both. I preferred to drive the stick (column shifter) but had to practice with whichever vehicle was available. Once I was on my own it took me over 24 years to get a vehicle with an auto in it. Now the truck I have is a auto shift. I have to start it out and stop it using the clutch but once it's rolling it drives just like an automatic transmission car.
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My first car was a '61 bug, bought it from my bro and his wife taught me to drive it a year earlier.
It took a full day to learn how to start out without getting that Pilot Induced Oscillation aka: hickups.
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In the UK and most of Europe, something like 95% of people learn on sticks. If you sit your driving test in an auto, you're only allowed to drive autos.
Sticks are the norm in most cars until you get to the luxury saloon classes. In fact, auto's have a bit of a stigma attached to them for younger drivers.
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Learned to drive a stick on a 66 Falcon with a three speed on the column. It would shudder in first gear no matter what you did and the shifter would fall out of the column if you weren’t careful.
Every vehicle since then has been a cinch to drive, including forklifts, loaders and ten speed trucks. My kids will learn on a stick too.
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All at once, almost, stick (jeep - summer job), auto (Dad's car) and motorcycle (my vehicle).
I find that a stick makes me a better driver as one has be conscious of what is happening - no cell phones, coffee, other drinks, distractions as both hands are required. Auto transmission driving makes one lazy.
Every kid should be required to only drive a standard till they get their full license. (we have graduated licensing in Ontario)
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Originally posted by Halo
Probably always better to learn on a stick so you can drive whatever you want after getting a license.
Already some families don't have manual transmissions, and maybe some day the only sticks we'll have will be options on fancy auto/stick combo transmissions with clutches a relic of the past.
I agree. I'm one of those families who doesn't have manual trans cars, but TxDad & I both learned on stick.
Driving is right around the corner for our oldest son. So we were thinking about getting another car ~ manual. Heck, the car payment & gas for the 3rd car will probably cost less than gas alone for our 2nd car.
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Originally posted by wooley
In the UK and most of Europe, something like 95% of people learn on sticks. If you sit your driving test in an auto, you're only allowed to drive autos.
Sticks are the norm in most cars until you get to the luxury saloon classes. In fact, auto's have a bit of a stigma attached to them for younger drivers.
Yup, that is right from my experience. Most people drive manuals and you are correct on the driving test.
Automatics are annoying, if you want to accelerate, they just rev and go nowhere. I love driving, and really enjoy using the gears on a manual.
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I learned on my big brother's 1974 Ford Maverick--3 speed, converted to floor, thankfully. Have had a few autos over the years (being able to hold coffee and steer is big on my list:aok ) But paying $ 1400 to get P.O.S. automatic tranny rebuilt has soured me, along with living at the top of a mountain--(manual is a MUST) now we have 3 cars/suvs, and 2 bikes, all with sticks. Xterra was $1000 cheaper with manual tranny, which is what I wanted anyhow
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I started learning on a golf car at 5...stated with those until i was 14, then i tought myself on a 63 chevy c10 292 straight 6, 3 on the tree. then i drove a 92 sunbird around. Now i have a 87 c10 with an automatic. but i can pretty much drive anything with wheels...
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My dad tried to teach me how to drive stick on an Ford Ranger that was almost as old as I was. I failed miserably.
A couple of years later I was working at a camp, and they were towing a 700 pound boat out of the water which probably had 100-200 pounds of water in it. What's more, they were doing it with an old WW2 army Jeep. Add onto that a ridiculously steep incline.
Someone backed the jeep down, I helped line up the boat on the trailer, tied it up...
Then they handed me the keys.
Nothing quite like a trial by fire situation.
I can drive stick now.
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You are kidding me... there are people who can't drive a stick?
lazs
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Sure are Laz, just like there are people who can't use a seat belt.........
:p
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Learned with both. Dad had a stick shift Ford F-150 truck and Mom had her Olds Delta 88 battleship. First truck I owned was a 81 Toyota SR-5 5 speed. My Dad made me get used to using the clutch by taking me up to the lake and parking on the boat ramp. Then I would have to hold the truck in place using just the gas and clutch. Really teaches you how to feel what the truck is doing that way. I drive an auto now though.
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mav... difference is... I can and do use a seatbelt... just not all the time and only when I choose to.
Pretty hard to compare skill of driving a stick to being so frieghtened of your government that you buckle up and buckle under.
It's a bad law.. it is our duty to break bad laws.
lazs
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Lighten up francis, it was a joke. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by bj229r
But paying $ 1400 to get P.O.S. automatic tranny rebuilt has soured me, along with living at the top of a mountain--(manual is a MUST) now we have 3 cars/suvs, and 2 bikes, all with sticks. Xterra was $1000 cheaper with manual tranny, which is what I wanted anyhow
LOLOL~ BJ, I thought your avatar was a nice GI Joe, drinking a cup of Joe... there's cussing (and not the little kind!) on that thing! LOLOLOLOL!:lol
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automatics have a 20-60 hp drain on the rear wheel hp. They make up for this somewhat with torque multiplication... with very high hp cars... 600 plus.. they can be quicker in a straight line because they are easier to control and shift quicker. Anyone who has full power shifted a stick in a car with even 400 hp knows what I am talking about.
lazs
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lazs,
Doesn't take 400hp to mess up a power shift... I looped my firebird in a 1-2 power shift, and it only has about 320-340hp. Dunno exactly how much hp it has because although GM rated it at 305, most owners of the same car are getting around 295 at the wheels on the dyno, which means it's making much more than 305 at the crank.
In any case, even a stock LS1 f-body will loop during a full power shift if you're not really careful or if anything isn't quite right (uneven surface, one tire a little worn, etc).
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a little hint for you guys who drive a stick... if you have some hp...
When you full power shift make sure that your left hand is not at the 12 oclock position.. use the 6 oclock hold.. you will find that you are much less likely to oversteer the car and spin it. We all learned this at the drags when the fast cars all had 4 speeds and not much in the way of tires.
lazs
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Semi-auto's can be quite good. Audi's DSG gearbox is brilliant.
I prefer manual transmission - it's part of the car driving experience if you ask me - otherwise you might as well be driving a dodgem car.
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I'd always owned sticks back home in Scotland where we have roads that make driving fun. Fast sweeping corners and only sheep that don't know the green-cross-code to worry about.
Since moving to SoCal, its autos all the way. Almost all the driving I do is either in heavy traffic or on arrow-straight roads or both. Auto's out here just make sense.
The arguement over whther or not to get an auto - to me - comes down to the question of whether you have access to roads where driver involvement extends beyond preventing your vehicle wander out of whichever one of the five lanes you've selected. That in itself seems beyond many of the drivers out here.
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I'm not thrilled about it whether it's standard or auto. My oldest is going to get a permit at 15??? I grew up in Germany, and wasn't allowed a permit until 17 & license until 18. I think that was even still maybe too young for most.
Then we come back here to the states and see all these babies driving. UNbelievable. And now I'm considering allowing one of my own babies to drive at 15?
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Originally posted by texasmom
Hajo's car thread made me think of this.
For you younger folks, did you learn to drive on stick or automatic? Or if you've got teens, did you teach them stick or automatic? What's your preference, and why?
Hello?? What are you thinking? TEENS SHOULDNT DRIVE:) Or be heard:)
:)
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If the engine is smaller then a 350 in a car, I prefer a stick. If it's a 350 or above, I prefer an auto. My reasoning is that where I live the roads can get very dark and wet, and driving home in the middle of the night in the rain after a double shift at work, it's easy to down shift incorrectly in a turn and end up in a ditch if you have a lot of HP under the hood. :(
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I learned on an auto Volvo and soon after a stick Datsun. I’ve had over 50 cars, most of them were sticks. Currently I only own 2 autos, not really by choice though. I buy the cheapest most reliable thing I can and drive it into the ground. Sticks are just hard to come by now; if given a choice I’d rather drive “standard”. Cheap 7 passenger minivans are especially hard to find without auto.
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If the engine is smaller then a 350 in a car, I prefer a stick. If it's a 350 or above, I prefer an auto. My reasoning is that where I live the roads can get very dark and wet, and driving home in the middle of the night in the rain after a double shift at work, it's easy to down shift incorrectly in a turn and end up in a ditch if you have a lot of HP under the hood.
That will happen no matter what size engine you have, if it has decent compression, because going into a turn, it's the same as getting on the E-Brake, if it's rear-wheel drive. That's another factor, in my opinion. Except for a 2000 Taurus my wife had, ALL of my cars and pickups were RWD.
FWD and RWD have all of their own driving characteristics, apart from the tranny type.
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Originally posted by texasmom
LOLOL~ BJ, I thought your avatar was a nice GI Joe, drinking a cup of Joe... there's cussing (and not the little kind!) on that thing! LOLOLOLOL!:lol
LOL Mom, in 5 years, you're the first one who ever noticed:D
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Originally posted by texasmom
For you younger folks
Or if you've got teens
:huh :noid
I am going to voice my experience anyway. :D
Jockey shift to foot shift, back to Jockey shift, to stick.
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but who really cares what a front wheel drive car handles like? Who would own one?
I think dowding gets it for once... It is about the experiance... it may be safer or better or more... whatever to have an auto but..
It is about the driving experiance. just like those misserable 3 point factory seat belts ruin the experiance for me.
There is more to driving than getting from one place to the other.
laz
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Originally posted by rpm
Airscrew, you sound a lot like me. I learned on Farmall tractors, a 68 Ford F100 and a 66 Diamond-T hauling hay when I was a kid. The Diamond-T had a 10 speed. Now I thought I was pretty hot stuff shifting that bad boy without using the clutch until Dad drove up in a 67 Pete with a 5 x 4. It had 2 sticks and I suddenly wasn't near as good as I thought I was.
Never really drove anything bigger than a bus and duece in a half in the military. My grandfather used to let us drive the tractors out to the fields or when ever they needed to be moved out of the way. He used it more as a reward for working hard, the prize would be to get to drive the tractor.
Learning to drive a manual wasnt so bad once I got the clutch and gas coordinated. Hardest thing for me was teaching others, like my brother and my sisters. Coolest was when I found out my dad knew how to double clutch. I was 19 and my brother had a 67 Mustang with a 4 speed. I cant remember if it was a problem with the clutch or the transmission but when ever you shifted it would get stuck between gears. He took us out and taught us how to double clutch, the look on his face was great and we just had a ball running up and down the back roads practicing.
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Originally posted by bj229r
LOL Mom, in 5 years, you're the first one who ever noticed:D
Really? It must be the pink background. Made me pay more attention to it. :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
but who really cares what a front wheel drive car handles like? Who would own one?
I think dowding gets it for once... It is about the experiance... it may be safer or better or more... whatever to have an auto but..
It is about the driving experiance. just like those misserable 3 point factory seat belts ruin the experiance for me.
There is more to driving than getting from one place to the other.
laz
I own one and do enjoy not having the tail show it's bellybutton when I want to accelerate around that corner without showing my aggressive intent. ;)
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I learned on an auto but learned to drive a stick when I was about 19 (geez that was a looooooooong time ago) I would prefer a manual transmission but I buy a car based on when/where I get the best price for whatever I need so, I havent had a car with a stick since 98 or so.
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if i'm driving a car that is fun to drive, on roads that are fun to drive on, i want a stick. if im just driving a tin can people mover to, inside and home from a city, the manual is nothing but a hassle, so why bother?
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Stick.
The only time automatic is good is when I'm driving it onto the lift at work. And even then manuals aren't a big deal anymore.
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Most people here drive manual. Autos are more expensive and supposedly less fuel efficient and slower. I remember driving a 2 litre Mazda 626 in the US and was astounded when it would only do about 90 MPH. My little Fiat Punto with a 1.3 engine could do 99 mph. I suppose rental cars are probably restricted in some way.
I remember reading about a gang of robbers somewhere in the US. Their getaway car wouldn't start so they hijacked a passing car only to find it was stick shift and they were caught!
I had the opposite problem once. I was an extra in a TV programme. I had to drive a Range Rover. It was auto. The scene had me reverse around a corner then accelerate away at speed. Well I ruined several takes because I couldn't get it back into forward drive quickly enough. In a manual. I would have just clutched as it was moving backwards, stuck it in first and booting in the power. But in an auto it wouldn't go into forward until it stopped. The director was fit to burst:furious :rofl Well they should have hired a stuntman! To make it worse, when I did get it going forward. I changed my mind about which side a parked Jeep I was going to pass, very late. You should have seen the crew diving for cover.:t ah happy days.
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If I am driving a really boring car then it may as well be an automatic. I have noticed also that unless the car is really boring I have little or no use for a stereo.
lazs
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Most of us older fellows, I'm sure, have nostalgia around manual transmissions. I learned on a stick and drove nothing but for most of my life.
Then I got a fullsize Bronco with the 5.8L engine and it ONLY came as an auto (don't know who claimed requiring stick for towing applications, but most trucks for the past ten years insist on auto for towing). I thought offroading with an auto would be horrid, but I have to confess it was nice.
Then one day my Audi A-4 manual turned into a minivan (I hate it when that happens), and, of course, that was auto.
My most recent purchase was a standard only because it is the vehicle both my kids will learn to drive.
But I don't know who I'm kidding. It's not likely that they, or myself, will ever own another standard. Even the vehicle I bought with a 6-speed is better as an auto because of electronic controls.
If you want a standard in order to select the appropriate gear for the situation, most autos today have that and the paddle shifters in enthusiast cars are far superior to sticks in terms of control, precision and efficiency (would love to be able to afford an F1-style seamless shifting transmission).
If you want a standard because you like working a clutch and pushing the stick back and forth, like me you are a relic and probably call what you take pictures with a "digital" camera, as if there were ever any other kind.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Never really drove anything bigger than a bus and duece in a half in the military. My grandfather used to let us drive the tractors out to the fields or when ever they needed to be moved out of the way. He used it more as a reward for working hard, the prize would be to get to drive the tractor.
Learning to drive a manual wasnt so bad once I got the clutch and gas coordinated. Hardest thing for me was teaching others, like my brother and my sisters. Coolest was when I found out my dad knew how to double clutch. I was 19 and my brother had a 67 Mustang with a 4 speed. I cant remember if it was a problem with the clutch or the transmission but when ever you shifted it would get stuck between gears. He took us out and taught us how to double clutch, the look on his face was great and we just had a ball running up and down the back roads practicing.
For me, once I understood how and why a manual transmission worked, it was easy to do it.
And driving a stick is more satisfying then an auto.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
And driving a stick is more satisfying then an auto.
True, but only on a worthwhile road.
In heavy stop-start traffic, its auto for the win.
By the way, I'm on vacation in Barbados right now. We've a rental and its hilariious. An 800cc, 3 cylinder Diahatsu Chirade - with an auto...:O
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Well I learned on an "International Scout" 2 and a half sticks... Bu I am going to teach my youngest on a Steam conversion of my Dodge D-50 (pull the heads and most of the foolish junk, replace the heads with bash valves, lock the stick to forward and reverse in 1:1 Junk the exhaust system, and put a flash boiler in the truck bed)
Link;
http://www.steamcar.net/z-kimmel.html
If Abner Doble had been a better businessman we would all be driving steam cars now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doble_Steam_Car
Regards,
Kevin or Gunns or whoever I am right now......
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learned on a 52 chevy 3 on the tree. current setup main trans eaton 18 spd aux trans brownie 4 spd
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west14 will you make me an avatar like thta one you have?:rofl
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Most people here drive manual. Autos are more expensive and supposedly less fuel efficient and slower. I remember driving a 2 litre Mazda 626 in the US and was astounded when it would only do about 90 MPH. My little Fiat Punto with a 1.3 engine could do 99 mph. I suppose rental cars are probably restricted in some way.
cpxxx ~ that sounds completttely dangerous