Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gear on July 04, 2007, 09:54:38 AM
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http://patriotfiles.org/Pledge.htm (http://patriotfiles.org/Pledge.htm)
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I pledge not to clink on links without some explanation.
Especially if Gordo posted them.
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If your an American, click on the link...
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It's safe. And worth while.
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"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all."
As it was written and meant to be. An expression of patriotism, not religious faith.
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Originally posted by Westy
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all."
As it was written and meant to be. An expression of patriotism, not religious faith.
Or what the Southerners had to say too get there freedom back.....
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Originally posted by Westy
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all."
As it was written and meant to be. An expression of patriotism, not religious faith.
Bellamy writes the "Pledge of Allegiance" and a companion address for publication in the September 8, 1892 issue of The Youth's Companion. The published Pledge reads:
"I Pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all."
Bellamy, a socialist and Baptist clergyman, writes the "Pledge of Allegiance" to "reflect the views of his cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of Looking Backward and other socialist utopian novels."
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Well it's a relief then that the Supreme Court ruled back in 1943 that no one can be forced to say it.
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Forced, no, it shouldn't be forced.
However, it should be mandatory for citizenship, to vote, to drive on public highways, or to use any service provided or paid for by the government.
If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Forced, no, it shouldn't be forced.
However, it should be mandatory for citizenship, to vote, to drive on public highways, or to use any service provided or paid for by the government.
If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country.
Yeah, don't piss off someone from the Komi Republic....or wannabes
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I'm all for freedom of speech but I agree with Ghosth 100%. Our country, our justice sytsem and our form of government may not be perfect but we are not afraid to put our problems out in public and try to deal with them. Our country is made up of people from almost every corner of the whole world, we don't have to build walls to keep our people in, we have the problem of too many people wanting to be Americans. It's our freedom of speech that makes it appear that we are worse off than we are because we are the kind of people who will honestly print, publish, expose and broadcast every issue imaginable. We will openly debate any issue and we have and will come together to force changes when needed. The cost of this freedom has been high and there are a lot of people in our country who are very vocal about it's woes and they have profited greatly from our way of life but have not contributed one thing to it's well being. I don't think asking someone to pledge their allegiance is asking too much of an American citizen.
AKwoodee
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"If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country."
You should think a wee bit deeper about what you wrote because it is truly the antithesis of what the founding fathers created.
Fortunately we both have the right, at this time, to express differing opinions. I imagine in your "world" I should not have that right and if I voiced it I'd be off to the camps or deported?
Sieg Heil Comrad?
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If you aren't loyal and supportive of a country that allows us all to disagree with it's policies, to vote on changes to those policies, to speak our minds no matter how controversial then why should anyone ever listen to you. Why would I trust you if your best interest aren't with our Country? Taking the pledge is not an allegiance to the current president, or congress or senate. It doesn't mean blind obedience, just the opposite. It's stating that you are an American who will try to uphold our constitution, which includes our right to voice our opinion, worship the way we want, elect our governtment, get due process. Read it again.
AKwoodee
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Forced, no, it shouldn't be forced.
However, it should be mandatory for citizenship, to vote, to drive on public highways, or to use any service provided or paid for by the government.
If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country.
Funny I thought it was tax payers that paid for public highways and the services our govt provides. Are they selling the toilet paper out of the White house again making some money us tax payers don't know about?
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Wood1 you're wrong. Patriotism is what you DO not what you say or wave that is loyalty. Oaths, allegiances and flag worship is what is called "shallow patriotism." Especially when they are what is held up high as proof of what being a good, proper citizen is as you an Ghosth are doing
Look it up. "shallow patriotism"
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Originally posted by WOOD1
of a country that allows us
I find it funny you look at it this way. Everyone should have a sense of national pride no matter where you were born, but no person should ever be forced to pledge to anything! The way we pledge is by upholding the laws of the land, and of course, paying taxes! My country does not "allow" me to do anything, I do what I want and when I want to, as long as I am within the law!
:aok
Mark
btw happy birthday, America!
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We haven't been free for a long time now.
I'm thinking a new declaration of independence is in order.
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I am not blindly waving a flag. To honor the pledge is to honor an ideal, a thought, that all of us are created equally, that all of us has a say, that our thoughts and opinions are just as important as the next guy's. It's not a pledge for blind obedience, it's saying that you recognize the importance of other people's beliefs and opinions. It's a statement that you will challenge injustice to your fellow man, that you will try to right a wrong. You have got me all wrong, we were born out of a revolution, an idea that we could govern ourselves and be governed by ourselves. That's our constitution, that's what we're all about. The pledge of Allegiance is all about being loyal to that concept, that you recognize and respect your fellow human beings. It's about freedom, recognizing yours and those around you.
AKwoodee
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Originally posted by Ghosth
If you have a problem with the Pledge of allegiance I have a problem with you in my country.
Dude,
I'm in your country. Legally. I pay taxes (for little in return), have health insurance, donate blood every now and then and donate to a couple of US based charities. My work directly impacts US homeland security and enables approximately 20 US citizens to have high paid jobs.
I am understand my presence here is as a guest and I think the USA is a truely great nation, but you'll be waiting a long, long time before you hear me utter the pledge of allegiance.
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The Constitution gives every American the right to be a moron and unfortunately too many exercise that right far too often. As proven in a few of these posts.
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I'm just glad i live in a country where I can choose to say "under god" in the pledge if I so choose.
If it pisses of anyone, that just a bonus.:D
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Originally posted by blkmgc
If it pisses of anyone, that just a bonus.:D
to he11, with good will I guess?:confused:
Mark
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Originally posted by Westy
Wood1 you're wrong. Patriotism is what you DO not what you say or wave that is loyalty. Oaths, allegiances and flag worship is what is called "shallow patriotism." Especially when they are what is held up high as proof of what being a good, proper citizen is as you an Ghosth are doing
Look it up. "shallow patriotism"
Both are parts of patriotism.....Your actions as well as your words.
Alot of people shed blood to defend the flag..... I dont think they would consider themselves as "Shallow patriots"
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Originally posted by SkyRock
to he11, with good will I guess?:confused:
Mark
Not changing my beliefs for the sake of "good will" bud. If someone lives here and believes different, they should be just as happy and thankfull as me that they have the right to do so. ;)
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we have the problem of too many people wanting to be Americans
Yes we all want to have our share of your perfect health care system and fight the wars overseas :aok
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Originally posted by LLv34_Dictonius
Yes we all want to have our share of your perfect health care system and fight the wars overseas :aok
Lets be honest....IN SPITE of those problems, people literally risk death to get into the US. For all its many problems, the US offers a wealth of educational, political, religious, and economic possibilities. And to be blunt, the America bashers need to remember that without the US, the world economy would crash and burn in a way that would make the Great Depression a Sunday picnic. (That's the optimist's view of being the world's biggest consumer of energy and consumer goods!)
I was born here, and I'm grateful for it. I'm not a "my country right or wrong" guy, and I'd argue with those who act like God is a US citizen. But I can't think of a country founded on better principles, with a better IDEA of what a nation should be like.
That's the real american dream -- that's what I'm proud of, and that's what I'd fight for.
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Wooley, your a guest here, then as long as your visa is current I don't have a problem. Nor if I came legally to your country would I expect to be held to the same standard as residents of that country.
But if your a citizen here, and you have a problem with the pledge that would be a different matter don't you think?
I don't expect guests in my house to do the dishes or take out the garbage. But if my daughter is living here I expect her to step up. I don't hold the 2 to the same standard or expect the same from them.
Westy, there is a big difference between shallow flag waving patriotism that will disappear when the going gets tough. And a deep down belief in what it is that the pledge stands for. Allegiance to the flag, belief in one nation, not to be divided or split, with liberty and justice for all. Those are not things I take lightly. Nor should any US Citizen.
And I'll say it again, if you really have a problem with those simple concepts and what they stand for. And if your a citizen of this country, then yes I have a problem with you. Its not shallow, its deep, so deep I think it went right under you.
Its not about who's in power, or who's fighting who, its about being an AMERICAN FIRST, and everything else second. If you want to live in this country, and reap its benefits, then you should be willing to pledge your allegiance to it.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I was born here, and I'm grateful for it. I'm not a "my country right or wrong" guy, and I'd argue with those who act like God is a US citizen. But I can't think of a country founded on better principles, with a better IDEA of what a nation should be like.
That's the real american dream -- that's what I'm proud of, and that's what I'd fight for.
Wow, very well put!!! I'm impressed!
Mark
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Originally posted by blkmgc
Not changing my beliefs for the sake of "good will" bud.
So your belief is to use your right to say "under God" to piss people off? Sounds like a griefer!:aok
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Sometimes I read these posts and say WTF are these people thinking, Other times I read and say yeah i can relate.
IMO the ones who truly know about being a Patriot, are the men and woman who served in the armed forces seen their friends get killed infront of them and fought for what they believe was right. Being in the armed forces gives you a whole new respect for the country, flag, and the values that all Americans take for granted. I being one of those people who has been to war has seen my friends die have this respect.
A year or so back i seen a flag laying on the groung in the dirt as 3 young men were trying to put it up, I was glad to see someone was putting a flag up, but it angered me that it was in the dirt on the ground. I told them to have some respect and lift it off the ground, too many men and woman died for that flag. They did not understand what I was talking about. I had to pick the flag up off the ground after 10 min watching them just laugh at what i said, a Viet Nam vet spoke up and really let them have it.
Do I flag worship? NO. I just understand what it means to be an american what oaths I have taken when I joined up and What it means to me. You have your right to speak anything you want, just think before you say anything about this great country you live in, and the people who have fought and died to give you the freedoms you have.
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Being in the armed forces gives you
...free dental and healt care, as well as education - they even promise great adventures and journeys around the world!!! But like they say, better to die for the flag than for nothing - latter being a bit depressing dont ya think? :lol
Nothing agains USA folks, just for some decisions made by your government: refusal of Kyoto agreement, constant power mongering etc. Makes Europe shake her head while sipping her morning coffee by the paper... lots of death and destruction, for the sake of what? Maybe the idea of patritionism should be reconsidered: the idea that the war for example profits so many American companies, it is a good thing and should be emphasized! :lol
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Originally posted by SkyRock
So your belief is to use your right to say "under God" to piss people off? Sounds like a griefer!:aok
No, my beliefs are my own, and I have a right to them. If that pisses someone else off..too bad. I doubt you get it, but I thought I'd make one last stab at it.
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Originally posted by stickpig
Both are parts of patriotism.....Your actions as well as your words.
Alot of people shed blood to defend the flag..... I dont think they would consider themselves as "Shallow patriots"
I think you missed the jist of Westy's post. In laymen's terms, a true act of patriotism is the guy that is spilling his blood for his flag and country as opposed to the over-weight beer guzzling red neck down at the river waving the flag on the 4th.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I think you missed the jist of Westy's post. In laymen's terms, a true act of patriotism is the guy that is spilling his blood for his flag and country as opposed to the over-weight beer guzzling red neck down at the river waving the flag on the 4th.
ack-ack
Finally someone that gets it! Well said Ack Ack!!!!! :D
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I think you missed the jist of Westy's post. In laymen's terms, a true act of patriotism is the guy that is spilling his blood for his flag and country as opposed to the over-weight beer guzzling red neck down at the river waving the flag on the 4th.
ack-ack
So, the guy drinking beer doesn't pay taxes? Is he not supporting our troops by doing so? You don't have to spill blood to be a patriot, and implying that is the only "true" act of patriotism is belittling what has made America the great country she is, everyone doing their part!
Mark
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Mark
Back at ya.
Btw, i LOVE the new avatar! :lol
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Originally posted by Simaril
Back at ya.
Btw, i LOVE the new avatar! :lol
Xargos made it, he is teh Avatar KING!
Mark
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I got an "Illegal plug-in warning" pop up yesterday. I will not click on it again.
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Darn,
I was thought this was an AH2 Game/Flightsim BBS. Not a political outreach BBS.
Could this be moved to an appropriate section?
Oh, and before you get all uppity. I paid my dues from Oct 67 to May 71, 1st MAW.