Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CAP1 on July 08, 2007, 11:50:20 PM
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ok...so here's the scenario..........
i'm flyin over A7 at about 17k(in LW as i NEVER need to go that hi in EW), and i see a bit of a furball goin on down at around 10-12k. i chop throttles, and roll over to drop in, then i think wait...i look at the dar, see a con just hit the dar ring north of us, so i throttle back up and hold my alt. as he gets closer, he works his way round to the east, then drops in on the furball.....and tries to pick a friendly......then comes right back up to about 15k......so i try to set up the timeing,,he drops again, as he comes back up to 15k, i'm closin hard, only 1k out...he rolls into a nice right turn to dive again, and gives me the perfect shot..which i messedup..only hit his wingtip. so down he goes, but comes up a different direction....again, i'm there, but follow him back down through the turn.....i rake a nice slavo right down his fuselage. he's done......
i see another commin, so i wait..a 190.....and he does the same thing...and so do i......but htis time on the second pass, i follow him to the deck......and removed some weight from his aircraft for him.......
so here's my question.....since i was higher than both of these guys, and kinda dropped in on em as they were fighting(CHERRY PICKING) was i also cherry picking?:O :O
:noid :noid
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I stopped reading after you were at 17k. geez...
i
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I know.....you caught them talkin on there bananna phones ha:eek:
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I stopped reading after you were at 17k. geez...
couldn't help it..i had gone to the same base on my last flight at only 10k thinking i'd have a little alt advantage......ALL were wayy over my head...i died...rapidly........so i returned higher.........i hate wasting the tiem to climb that hi.....but it seems nessessary in LW
i
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No.
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You shot them down.
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What the heck you doing at 17K in any arena?
Come on down to 3-5K and play with the 38s :)
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sticks and stones may break my bones...
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Like SOB said, you shot them down. Which begs the real question, What is cherry picking exactly? Is it unsportsmanlike?
Les
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For some, what provides enjoyment is the adrenalin rush of a fight, win or lose, regardless of odds or other advantage/disadvantages - and the braggin' rights when they come out on top in spite of long odds.
For other's, what provides a sense of enjoyment is a careful "realistic" flight with an emphasis on surviving the sortie. ( "realistic" in quotes because it isn't really either, but since in real life a tremendous emphasis was placed on surviving to fly again it "seems" more realistic to fly that way rather than upping right into the hairy furball).
"Cherry Picker" is a derogatory term the first group tends to apply to the second, because they will often avoid the fight the first group desires if the odds aren't in their favor, attacking from an advantage (alt usually) and breaking off to regain the advantage before they become at risk if they don't succeed.
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Originally posted by CAP1
ok...so here's the scenario..........
i'm flyin over A7 at about 17k
you should marry lack lack
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Originally posted by CAP1
so here's my question.....since i was higher than both of these guys, and kinda dropped in on em as they were fighting(CHERRY PICKING) was i also cherry picking?:O :O
:noid :noid
Not sure, but it sounds like you were planing to :rofl
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You were co-alt with the cherry picker. IMO a cherry picker killer isn't a cherry picker. If you bring the fight to him on even terms, and he's to stupid/cowardly to do anything about it, he just gave you a free kill.
My $0.02.
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Souns like a classic example of shooting someone down in a war game nothing more. Who cares if anyone "cherry picks" if you can shoot down someone that way go right ahead. Just remember that for every cherry picker out there there is someone trying to gun for you and you best beware. A Jug is a great cherry picker due to its high alt performance. Love the Jug.
Jugman:aok
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You were about twice as high as anyone that should of been in ANY arena.
Sometimes, I wish AH had an hourly subscription rate so this wouldn't be an issue.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
What the heck you doing at 17K in any arena?
Come on down to 3-5K and play with the 38s :)
hey guppy,
normally, in EW or MW, the fights are only around 3-7k alt. if i go up to 10k there, i can find the bombers.......but it seems to me that if i'm not in the outter atmosphere in LW, then i'm too low.......
i'd LOVE to come fight with or against u guys in 38's......i've been tryin to get better in them, but bein as it's such a huge target(with me at the controls anyway:rofl ) it's hard....i die fast in the 38....
lemme know where yas fly...i'll come join yas...or i'll help ur score by fightin agsainst yas:O
john
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Originally posted by Ghastly
For some, what provides enjoyment is the adrenalin rush of a fight, win or lose, regardless of odds or other advantage/disadvantages - and the braggin' rights when they come out on top in spite of long odds.
1)well...i DO get a good rush from a down n dirty fight...even when i lose(which i do often). if i'm jumping into a furball, i don't mind bein outnumbered, but i try to keep within my aircraft's abilities...in the 38, that means stay fast(for me anyway), in a hurri or a zeke..well, they have that "easy button" in the cockpit!!:rofl i also get one helluva rush from the setup, and attack of a formatiopn of bombers.......whether i successfully down them or not.....it's just the whole thing..kinda like hunting....almost a sport.......
For other's, what provides a sense of enjoyment is a careful "realistic" flight with an emphasis on surviving the sortie. ( "realistic" in quotes because it isn't really either, but since in real life a tremendous emphasis was placed on surviving to fly again it "seems" more realistic to fly that way rather than upping right into the hairy furball).
2)when i'm just patrolling(read that as looking for a victem), yes.....to me getting my aircraft back on friendly soil is VERY important. it just doesn't feel right if i don't bring my plane home......this is some of the reasons i like to try to at leat have close to even odds when i in on a bogie.
"Cherry Picker" is a derogatory term the first group tends to apply to the second, because they will often avoid the fight the first group desires if the odds aren't in their favor, attacking from an advantage (alt usually) and breaking off to regain the advantage before they become at risk if they don't succeed.
3)ok......HERE i think maybe i should clarify a bit........i didn't use that intending to be derogatory towards anyone....i know we all fight our own fights.....so if anyone takes offense.....i apologize.
<>ghastly
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Originally posted by dedalos
Not sure, but it sounds like you were planing to :rofl
hey dedalos.......
believe it or not, i wasn't.....if i would've dropped in on the fight, i'd have stayed down with them till they kilt me.....or till i got one or two of em.........:noid :noid
:rofl
john
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Originally posted by Krusty
You were co-alt with the cherry picker. IMO a cherry picker killer isn't a cherry picker. If you bring the fight to him on even terms, and he's to stupid/cowardly to do anything about it, he just gave you a free kill.
My $0.02.
hey krusty.......i think the first guy(the corsair) never even saw me.......like i said..when i saw him commin in, i tried to set up a nice merge, then saw him dive into the fight......so it was only a matter of watchin his pattern, then gettin my shot...i figure he was looking out the back seeing what the guys down low were doing when i shot him....so i don't think this guys was stupid or cowardly..i think he had target fixation....
the fw, i think saw me, which sucked as i only hit his wingtip with a couple rounds.....and when he went low intot he fight again, i went with him...we ened up on the deck...and he ended up with some really important parts missing, thanks to help from the others in the fight:O
the fw guy...well, i think he didn't expect me to dive with him..and thought i'd compress before i got close enough to do anything else to him.....thank god for big effective rudders and throttle management:D
<>
john
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I wouldn't be too surprised... I've seen folks that KNEW I was there (I'd shot them with a burst) and totally ignored me so that they could keep vulching/picking/porking/whatever.
Just because he showed no reaction doesn't mean he never saw ya :cool:
But I hear what yer sayin'.
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Originally posted by P47Gra
Souns like a classic example of shooting someone down in a war game nothing more. Who cares if anyone "cherry picks" if you can shoot down someone that way go right ahead. Just remember that for every cherry picker out there there is someone trying to gun for you and you best beware. A Jug is a great cherry picker due to its high alt performance. Love the Jug.
Jugman:aok
i can tell ya what......the sortie just before that, i had a spit in on me....i mis-judged my own e, and stalled at the top of an immel......he had me....smoked #2 engine, and damaged my cannon and 2 guns....i dove away from hin once i regained control....he didn't follow, so i started to re-climb to the fight....i get up there, spot this jug about 5k away.....i paid him no mind as i figured he'd go for a lower easier target..i wanted that spit......whelp....next i know, the jug's only 1.5k bearing down hard....i turned into him to give only a small profile....and he didn't go for the HO.......i was able to come over the top only about the same time he did, we passed again, then he saddled up on my 6.....i was doing EVERYTHING i could think of to lose him......i did a left shallow diving turn, about 90 or so degrees, then went into a shallow right rolling climb....this almost always seems to force an overshoot outta the faster guys.....he shot the crap outta me as i came over the top of the roll, ALMOST overshot, but stayed glued to me. it took him only a few more seconds to remove important things required for flight from my poor p38.....
so needless to say.....caop has much more respect for the jug now......btw......its pilot was redtop<<>>awsome fight dude!
john
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Originally posted by Delirium
You were about twice as high as anyone that should of been in ANY arena.
Sometimes, I wish AH had an hourly subscription rate so this wouldn't be an issue.
like i mentioned..in EW and MW i'm rarely over 10k..and thats only when i'm lookin for the buffs........more fun to fight low..like 5-8k to start...as i always seem to end up on the deck from there anyway.........
john
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Originally posted by Krusty
I wouldn't be too surprised... I've seen folks that KNEW I was there (I'd shot them with a burst) and totally ignored me so that they could keep vulching/picking/porking/whatever.
Just because he showed no reaction doesn't mean he never saw ya :cool:
But I hear what yer sayin'.
hhmm...good point.....he may have ben one of the """i gotta kill gotta kill"" guys......:rofl :rofl
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couldn't help it..i had gone to the same base on my last flight at only 10k thinking i'd have a little alt advantage......ALL were wayy over my head...i died...rapidly........so i returned higher.........i hate wasting the tiem to climb that hi.....but it seems nessessary in LW
Well ok. That is if you wish to be a guy who can only survive if you have an alt advantage.
There's a certain satisfaction that comes when a guy is bouncing you and thinks he has you dead to rights, screwed down to the table, and you somehow slip away.
Even more satisfying is when you reverse the guy, turn the tables on him and put him away. I love to imagine the guy in the other cockpit: "Oh ****e!"
I got bounced from quite high by Bucky the other night a couple of times. He's a good stick and equally nice guy. He had me cold(I imagine from his view). I got him out of phase and vectored away in the scissors.. I didn't kill him but still got the rush of being pinched then barely squeaking away.
Sure, a better pilot might have gotten him on the overshoot but, with the limited skills I have, I had an adrenaline rush from the experience of slipping through his grasp...... try it. :)
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well ok. That is if you wish to be a guy who can only survive if you have an alt advantage.
There's a certain satisfaction that comes when a guy is bouncing you and thinks he has you dead to rights, screwed down to the table, and you somehow slip away.
Even more satisfying is when you reverse the guy, turn the tables on him and put him away. I love to imagine the guy in the other cockpit: "Oh ****e!"
I got bounced from quite high by Bucky the other night a couple of times. He's a good stick and equally nice guy. He had me cold(I imagine from his view). I got him out of phase and vectored away in the scissors.. I didn't kill him but still got the rush of being pinched then barely squeaking away.
Sure, a better pilot might have gotten him on the overshoot but, with the limited skills I have, I had an adrenaline rush from the experience of slipping through his grasp...... try it. :)
.....says the guy who says "I didn't bounce you." :O :noid :)
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Hehehe sorry bout that one Mash, I really did come from a smidge(basically coalt, I dropped down a little to try to slip into the 38 blind spot) below ya though. I'd been level for a whole sector though and was pretty wound up.
:D
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Hehehe sorry bout that one Mash, I really did come from a smidge(basically coalt, I dropped down a little to try to slip into the 38 blind spot) below ya though. I'd been level for a whole sector though and was pretty wound up.
:D
I know. Couldn't resist a little humor. <>
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I stopped reading after you were at 17k. geez...
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.
68ROX
Care to test this theory out?
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Originally posted by storch
you should marry lack lack
You should let your hate go. It's not my fault that you suck and I can easily shoot you down as I have done many times in the DA, MA and AvA.
...Or are you just bitter because your name has become synonymous with handsomehunk?
Just the other day, I over heard someone on Channel 200 say, "damn, I pulled a storch move and forgot to take bombs.", and another time I heard some Rookie say on Channel 200, "stop being a storch and fight."
I also get a kick how you always bring up my name in almost all of your posts. If that ain't noodle envy, I don't know what is.
ack-ack
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**getting popcorn and soda ready**
Carry on :aok
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well ok. That is if you wish to be a guy who can only survive if you have an alt advantage.
1)well, i'd rather be able to survive in the scenario i mentioned too.....but i'm nowhere near that good......yet.... and..don't forget..i only wanted a SMALL alt advantage...it seems to me that if i'm in a 38 of any model, a large alt advantage is worse than being below my bogie....i still have trouble with co-alt, which since i'm told i fly the 38 well, i think may have o do with poor judgement, and poorer gunnery.
There's a certain satisfaction that comes when a guy is bouncing you and thinks he has you dead to rights, screwed down to the table, and you somehow slip away.
Even more satisfying is when you reverse the guy, turn the tables on him and put him away. I love to imagine the guy in the other cockpit: "Oh ****e!"
2)yes, i've had that happen to me a few times...i think i got the guy, and next thing i know, he's on the wrong end of my aircraft:O
I got bounced from quite high by Bucky the other night a couple of times. He's a good stick and equally nice guy. He had me cold(I imagine from his view). I got him out of phase and vectored away in the scissors.. I didn't kill him but still got the rush of being pinched then barely squeaking away.
Sure, a better pilot might have gotten him on the overshoot but, with the limited skills I have, I had an adrenaline rush from the experience of slipping through his grasp...... try it. :)
:O
3) so far, if i'm bounced as you mentioned here....i'm also dinner on the table....but i'm workin on it!!
<>
john
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CAP.....
I only see cherry pickers when they are above me. :lol
When I have Alt its called a Tactical Advantage. :lol
Man don't worry with it....learn your way and enjoy this game.
I very rarley turn the tables as Steve mentioned, although I have a few times. I get ALOT of my kils with my squadmates and I winging. I'm not real good 1v1 at all and MOST know it and I am by no means ashamed of it.
This game isn't my life. I'd rather hit Golf Balls til my hands hurt than spend 20 minutes flying here. But , I haven't the time to get to the range like I used to so I fly some.
Just have fun here...Don't worry with things and try your BEST not to let Ho's get to ya....Runners tick ya off...or the gang bang that will insue about every time you up.:aok
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Originally posted by CAP1
:O
...but i'm workin on it!!
<>
john
ahhh here you are! Workin on it...that's the key! This means that you will be dangerous one day(i'm not saying you aren't currently, you did). I began working on it several years ago. Recently I got to the point where I think I'm almost average.(others will happily tell you I'm totally unskilled).
Hopefully, you possess more raw skill than I do. :aok
Steve
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You were about twice as high as anyone that should of been in ANY arena.
Have to disagree Delirium. The best fights IMO are the ones that start at high altitudes and eventually work there way down to the deck. These fights can last upwards of 5 min with the advantage changing over and over (assuming that both pilots are of similar skill level). That's 5 min of pure adrenaline and when it's over your js is covered in sweat and hands are shaking. That's what this game is all about to me.
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Originally posted by Gryphons
Have to disagree Delirium. The best fights IMO are the ones that start at high altitudes and eventually work there way down to the deck. These fights can last upwards of 5 min with the advantage changing over and over (assuming that both pilots are of similar skill level). That's 5 min of pure adrenaline and when it's over your js is covered in sweat and hands are shaking. That's what this game is all about to me.
I had a fight with a well flown 110C vs me in an Lgay7 that lasted well over three minutes and it was on the deck. our paths crossed at about 5k far from other players out over the blue blue sea and ended when my opponent dipped a wing in the ocean and settled there. I waggled my wings and flew away.
after that fight I logged off. it was easily the best MA fight I had had in well over one year and the night could only go down hill from there.
those are the fights I look for and the reason I play.
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Originally posted by RedTop
CAP.....
I only see cherry pickers when they are above me. :lol
When I have Alt its called a Tactical Advantage. :lol
1) NICE!!! i LIKE that!!:aok
Man don't worry with it....learn your way and enjoy this game.
2)i don't generally worry too much...once in awhile i get mad..but if i feel i've offended anyone, i do try to apologize..i'd rather have friends in here than to be like some where all hate me....and i apparently just have to learn by dying..a few have treid to help me, and i try to incorporate what i've been shown, but it never seems to work..so i die, and film, to see what i did wrong.
I very rarley turn the tables as Steve mentioned, although I have a few times. I get ALOT of my kils with my squadmates and I winging. I'm not real good 1v1 at all and MOST know it and I am by no means ashamed of it.
3)i tried that with one of my squaddies flyin an A20, as bait..me and another squadie hung just out of vis of him.....didn't work....the only guy to come after the A20 was on to us:lol
This game isn't my life. I'd rather hit Golf Balls til my hands hurt than spend 20 minutes flying here. But , I haven't the time to get to the range like I used to so I fly some.
4)same here.....i have my pilots lisence too...i go up whenever i can afford it...also shoot archery, and fly R/C models too......plenty outside stuff to do in summertime..in winter...i'm here a lot more.......
Just have fun here...Don't worry with things and try your BEST not to let Ho's get to ya....Runners tick ya off...or the gang bang that will insue about every time you up.:aok
:aok :lol
always fun here!!!!!! well...almost anyway......when i keep all of my p38 together:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
ahhh here you are! Workin on it...that's the key! This means that you will be dangerous one day(i'm not saying you aren't currently, you did). I began working on it several years ago. Recently I got to the point where I think I'm almost average.(others will happily tell you I'm totally unskilled).
Hopefully, you possess more raw skill than I do. :aok
Steve
heheheheheh.......oooooo but i AM dangerous.........to myself!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl
or to the bombers that i collide with because i misjudge the time i need to pull outta my dive:rofl :rofl or worse yet when i dive my p38 a lil too fast,,,,,,,,,and then usethe ground as my speed brakes:O :O
its not the fall that hurts..its the sudden stop at the bottom:D
<>
john
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Originally posted by RedTop
CAP.....
I only see cherry pickers when they are above me. :lol
When I have Alt its called a Tactical Advantage. :lol
Man don't worry with it....learn your way and enjoy this game.
I very rarley turn the tables as Steve mentioned, although I have a few times. I get ALOT of my kils with my squadmates and I winging. I'm not real good 1v1 at all and MOST know it and I am by no means ashamed of it.
This game isn't my life. I'd rather hit Golf Balls til my hands hurt than spend 20 minutes flying here. But , I haven't the time to get to the range like I used to so I fly some.
Just have fun here...Don't worry with things and try your BEST not to let Ho's get to ya....Runners tick ya off...or the gang bang that will insue about every time you up.:aok
almost forgot..........was fun fight..and i saved your bullets.....i'll sell em back to ya if ya want??:rofl
<> was fun fight
john
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Originally posted by CAP1
almost forgot..........was fun fight..and i saved your bullets.....i'll sell em back to ya if ya want??:rofl
<> was fun fight
john
1LTCAP? Dam that was a GREAT fight last night.....I wish I had filmed it...but as usual I didn't. Everytime I think...."Hey let me film this flight".....I get Hoed...run into a tree...gang banged or something and the film techaes me nothing I didn't already know.
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Originally posted by Gryphons
Have to disagree Delirium. The best fights IMO are the ones that start at high altitudes and eventually work there way down to the deck. These fights can last upwards of 5 min with the advantage changing over and over (assuming that both pilots are of similar skill level). That's 5 min of pure adrenaline and when it's over your js is covered in sweat and hands are shaking. That's what this game is all about to me.
i've never had one last that long...but i do agree........i get that rush when stalking a bogie.....fighter or bombers.......still not as good as a 9 second pass on the track...but pretty dam close:D
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Originally posted by RedTop
1LTCAP? Dam that was a GREAT fight last night.....I wish I had filmed it...but as usual I didn't. Everytime I think...."Hey let me film this flight".....I get Hoed...run into a tree...gang banged or something and the film techaes me nothing I didn't already know.
:D :D
ihafta look....i think i filmed it..i try to always have film running when i'm near bogies....and same happens to me.....film on...O CRAP!!!!!! as i hit the ground:O :rofl or sonofa #$%@^&%$#%&^&^%$# as i see blood hit the canopy from the HO(although i'm gettin better at avoidin em):D
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Originally posted by storch
I had a fight with a well flown 110C vs me in an Lgay7 that lasted well over three minutes and it was on the deck. our paths crossed at about 5k far from other players out over the blue blue sea and ended when my opponent dipped a wing in the ocean and settled there. I waggled my wings and flew away.
1) i can't turn the 110 worth a dam......although i've been lucky enough to have a couple fun fights in my p38 v the LA one or two i was victorious....most time,,,i'm in pieces......gimme time, and i'll be one of the feared P38 drivers:D
but u were on the deck? i never see you low?
after that fight I logged off. it was easily the best MA fight I had had in well over one year and the night could only go down hill from there.
2)how bout furballs?
those are the fights I look for and the reason I play.
:D
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Originally posted by CAP1
:D :D
ihafta look....i think i filmed it..i try to always have film running when i'm near bogies....and same happens to me.....film on...O CRAP!!!!!! as i hit the ground:O :rofl or sonofa #$%@^&%$#%&^&^%$# as i see blood hit the canopy from the HO(although i'm gettin better at avoidin em):D
If ya have it...it would be greatly aprrceiated if ya sent it to me....lemme know I'll pm ya my addy , or post it and ill save it....either way would be awsome if ya have it.
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Originally posted by CAP1
heheheheheh.......oooooo but i AM dangerous.........to myself!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl
or to the bombers that i collide with because i misjudge the time i need to pull outta my dive:
<>
john
don't pull out, go under them. You will spend less time as a target for them and they will lose gun solution time as they are forced to switch gunner positions.
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I never quite understood why cherry picking has any kind of stigma attached to it. It is a fundamental tactical concept in fighter combat in everything but simplistic 1 vs 1 engagments . Heck, even clearing your wingman's 6 is cherry picking. The vast majority of tactics require a set-up of some sort for the benefit of your wingie(s). If you've ever read Shaw you'll know 2/3rds of the fighter tactics diagramed involve setting up kills for your friend(s). I won't even mention the fact 80% of all air combat kills in WW2 were against foes that never knew what hit them...
Without a healthy dose of opportunists looking to cherry pick, there'd be no reason to have good SA and no reason not to just target fixate on one con even in very complex engagements. That would not be very fun for very long. Having to split your attention between your prey and potentially being someone elses prey is part of the adrenalin rush of virtual fighter combat. Take that away and you'd basically have mortal combat with airplanes (aka the DA)...I'm sure that'd be fun for about 3 or 4 minutes...
I will cherry pick anyone who lets me, but I will say those with great SA I very rarely cherry pick. So, if you're getting picked alot the problem is your SA not the opportunistic bastards that are exploiting your lack thereof...
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I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.
Yep.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.
know what i do when i see them? i fly right to the nearest friendly base and circle in the ack till he gets bored circlin me while i circle in the ack:O
or even more fun.....if they're REALLY focused on me, i fly towards a friendly ammo factory, or troop facility, or a radar facility....anything that'll nail him with puffy ack....its REALLY fun to watch em kinda jerk initially when the first oine goes off near em:rofl :O
<>
john
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.
Agreed. These are the people who are more interested in getting kills than in having good fights.
- oldman
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Had a little duel with akELFY this morning, he did not respect the mossie... he does now. :D
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Originally posted by VWE
Had a little duel with akELFY this morning, he did not respect the mossie... he does now. :D
:rofl
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Originally posted by CAP1
i can tell ya what......the sortie just before that, i had a spit in on me....i mis-judged my own e, and stalled at the top of an immel......he had me....smoked #2 engine, and damaged my cannon and 2 guns....i dove away from hin once i regained control....he didn't follow, so i started to re-climb to the fight....i get up there, spot this jug about 5k away.....i paid him no mind as i figured he'd go for a lower easier target..i wanted that spit......whelp....next i know, the jug's only 1.5k bearing down hard....i turned into him to give only a small profile....and he didn't go for the HO.......i was able to come over the top only about the same time he did, we passed again, then he saddled up on my 6.....i was doing EVERYTHING i could think of to lose him......i did a left shallow diving turn, about 90 or so degrees, then went into a shallow right rolling climb....this almost always seems to force an overshoot outta the faster guys.....he shot the crap outta me as i came over the top of the roll, ALMOST overshot, but stayed glued to me. it took him only a few more seconds to remove important things required for flight from my poor p38.....
so needless to say.....caop has much more respect for the jug now......btw......its pilot was redtop<<>>awsome fight dude!
john
Yeah, I have been shot down by him in the past. He is evil in the Jug. I can only wish to be that proficient.
Jugman
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quote:
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.
68ROX
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Care to test this theory out?
Ya know Masher, on a whim Sunday afternoon, I decided to do some research on rook "Altmonkeyism" and take off from a far rear base in a p47 with all drop tanks.
I found Rooks:
B17's = 31,000
Yak9 = 30,000
Numerous (over 20) mixed bag of planes (mainly corsairs and spits) = 25,000+
Over their own base = 20,000
I did see 5 rook planes below 5,000 attacking a knight base.
I guess it's worth it for them to spend 45 minutes climbing into the stratusphere to have the alt advantage. Hey...it's their 15 a month.
Go figure.
68ROX
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Originally posted by Delirium
You were about twice as high as anyone that should of been in ANY arena.
Sometimes, I wish AH had an hourly subscription rate so this wouldn't be an issue.
Says who? Where is the rule that says you have to be at a certain alt to fight? It is his 15$s he can fly like he wants. If he wants to come in at 17K then so be it. Cherry pickers are like La-7 drivers. They are easier than a hooker on forth street once you learn how to counter them.
What I don't like are all the self righteous types dogging someone else because that person flies his cartoon plane a different way. So what you fly low on the deck. Who cares? What does it matter if someone climbed to 22K feet before entering a fight?
This is a game. It is not real. If you get killed by a alt weenie, cherry picking, la-7 dweeb...guess what? It is OK. Here at AH the fuel is always flowing and we have planes on tap. No biggie.
-Spot
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Originally posted by BBBB
Says who? Where is the rule that says you have to be at a certain alt to fight? It is his 15$s he can fly like he wants. If he wants to come in at 17K then so be it. Cherry pickers are like La-7 drivers. They are easier than a hooker on forth street once you learn how to counter them.
What I don't like are all the self righteous types dogging someone else because that person flies his cartoon plane a different way. So what you fly low on the deck. Who cares? What does it matter if someone climbed to 22K feet before entering a fight?
This is a game. It is not real. If you get killed by a alt weenie, cherry picking, la-7 dweeb...guess what? It is OK. Here at AH the fuel is always flowing and we have planes on tap. No biggie.
-Spot
Very true, but that does not mean we cant make fun of him. There are no fights at 17K or 22K, so if you want to waste your time to clime upthere only to dive for 10K to spoil some one elses fight so be it. Its your money. We will just make fun of you because that is how we want to spend our money :rofl
Oh, and we will make sure we tell you how stupid that is. Wana know why? Look above lol
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Originally posted by dedalos
There are no fights at 17K or 22K,
Not true.
They are rare, but do happen, though one of the two pilots will almost always immediately dive to the deck.
(Which may in itself be a success for the other pilot, if his mission was to clear the path for an own raid at somewhat lower altitude).
What I do regulary encounter and kill at that altitudes are bombers, so there IS a reason to fly that high.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Not true.
They are rare, but do happen, though one of the two pilots will almost always immediately dive to the deck.
(Which may in itself be a success for the other pilot, if his mission was to clear the path for an own raid at somewhat lower altitude).
What I do regulary encounter and kill at that altitudes are bombers, so there IS a reason to fly that high.
Yes, if you are looking for bombers or the ocasional no risk taking cherry picker. However, that is not why most people go up there. So, what happens when 2 cherry pickers meet? They both split-S and go out of range. So, no, no fights upthere (excluding exceptions). Thats not where you would go if you were looking to fight.
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Originally posted by P47Gra
Yeah, I have been shot down by him in the past. He is evil in the Jug. I can only wish to be that proficient.
Jugman
i can tell ya what......the sortie just before that, i had a spit in on me....i mis-judged my own e, and stalled at the top of an immel......he had me....smoked #2 engine, and damaged my cannon and 2 guns....i dove away from hin once i regained control....he didn't follow, so i started to re-climb to the fight....i get up there, spot this jug about 5k away.....i paid him no mind as i figured he'd go for a lower easier target..i wanted that spit......whelp....next i know, the jug's only 1.5k bearing down hard....i turned into him to give only a small profile....and he didn't go for the HO.......i was able to come over the top only about the same time he did, we passed again, then he saddled up on my 6.....i was doing EVERYTHING i could think of to lose him......i did a left shallow diving turn, about 90 or so degrees, then went into a shallow right rolling climb....this almost always seems to force an overshoot outta the faster guys.....he shot the crap outta me as i came over the top of the roll, ALMOST overshot, but stayed glued to me. it took him only a few more seconds to remove important things required for flight from my poor p38.....
so needless to say.....caop has much more respect for the jug now......btw......its pilot was redtop<<>>awsome fight dude!
John
You both are very nice....But there are SO many in this game that outclass me in the JUG its scarey.
Hajo...Blukitty...YUCCA...Fre nchy....Nomde....Husky....bas ically any of the 56th guys.....BatfinkV....JensK... .and this list goes on and on. THEY are the reason I even TRIED the Jug to begin with.
It's just a fun ride to be in. I have had some fights that lasted what seemes like forever. Hands sweating....arsm tired...eyes strained...legs going a 100 mph...and when your done you sit back...WIN or LOSE and just think...WOW that was a frikin blast.
I have had some HI alt fights with Ponies , 109's and 190's that basically they dove away and I didn't chase. Alot I did.
This game just brings out some great fights at times...No HO's on the merge and just some Throttle choppin , flap droppin , scissor rolling yo yo fun.
to you 2 for making it that way.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
quote:
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.
68ROX
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Care to test this theory out?
Ya know Masher, on a whim Sunday afternoon, I decided to do some research on rook "Altmonkeyism" and take off from a far rear base in a p47 with all drop tanks.
I found Rooks:
B17's = 31,000
Yak9 = 30,000
Numerous (over 20) mixed bag of planes (mainly corsairs and spits) = 25,000+
Over their own base = 20,000
I did see 5 rook planes below 5,000 attacking a knight base.
I guess it's worth it for them to spend 45 minutes climbing into the stratusphere to have the alt advantage. Hey...it's their 15 a month.
Go figure.
68ROX
sheesh....lucky that i wasn't too low at only 17k!:O
so now ya see why i was up there........:D
:O :D
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Originally posted by BBBB
Says who? Where is the rule that says you have to be at a certain alt to fight? It is his 15$s he can fly like he wants. If he wants to come in at 17K then so be it. Cherry pickers are like La-7 drivers. They are easier than a hooker on forth street once you learn how to counter them.
What I don't like are all the self righteous types dogging someone else because that person flies his cartoon plane a different way. So what you fly low on the deck. Who cares? What does it matter if someone climbed to 22K feet before entering a fight?
This is a game. It is not real. If you get killed by a alt weenie, cherry picking, la-7 dweeb...guess what? It is OK. Here at AH the fuel is always flowing and we have planes on tap. No biggie.
-Spot
:aok :aok
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Oh, yeah, fight a bomber in your 133t fighter and think you are good. pfffft :noid
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Originally posted by dedalos
Very true, but that does not mean we cant make fun of him. There are no fights at 17K or 22K, so if you want to waste your time to clime upthere only to dive for 10K to spoil some one elses fight so be it. Its your money. We will just make fun of you because that is how we want to spend our money :rofl
Oh, and we will make sure we tell you how stupid that is. Wana know why? Look above lol
heheheh.....it doesn't bother me when yas bust my stones.....mostly 'cause i know you're doin it in some semblence of fun......
as for climbing to 17k to dive back to `10k? i would've only had to dive to about 15-14k if i'd have done that. my plan also was to NOT to be caught low as i was the first time, and if i'd have had to dive to he fight, i'd have stayed down there in it........remember..in EW, USUALLY, i never have to go above 10k, IF i go that hi in a fighter.....exception was last night.....there WERE a couple VERY good fights at 16k:O :O . oo.....i got my arse handed to me too:rofl :rofl
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I have had some great fights above 15-20K. Back when I flew the P-51B all the time, I ran into 190s and 109s up there pretty much everyday. Now in the 38 I find Yaks, La-7s, Spits, Niks all up at above 15K. There are some good fights up there. I come in high sometimes and work from the top of the fight down to the bottom. It is called being smart. I enjoy landing my hard earned kills. So I like being able to dis-engage from the fight when I choose to.
-Spot
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Well said.
Few here (AHII) have read or if they have, apply what this guy teaches.
Easy kills are way safer for me.
I love it the way most guys want you to fight THEIR fight, usually six to one. They brag how great they are, but rare it is, just one on one.
I fly solo almost exclusively and violating Kylander's primary rule.
I follow the better players around. I go find where they fly out of. Tape the sortie and I go find them. I watch. I play all sides, all arenas. These guys, most, start a base back, gain altitude and fly INTO the fight or the fringe. It is rather dangerous to hop into the furball and risk that stray shot and part of why these guys' scores are so low.
{:{
Whew, points don't matter!
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re:
Zazen13
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Barksdale AF Base
Posts: 2438
I never quite understood why cherry picking has any kind of stigma attached to it. It is a fundamental tactical concept in fighter combat in everything but simplistic 1 vs 1 engagments . Heck, even clearing your wingman's 6 is cherry picking. The vast majority of tactics require a set-up of some sort for the benefit of your wingie(s). If you've ever read Shaw you'll know 2/3rds of the fighter tactics diagramed involve setting up kills for your friend(s). I won't even mention the fact 80% of all air combat kills in WW2 were against foes that never knew what hit them...
Without a healthy dose of opportunists looking to cherry pick, there'd be no reason to have good SA and no reason not to just target fixate on one con even in very complex engagements. That would not be very fun for very long. Having to split your attention between your prey and potentially being someone elses prey is part of the adrenalin rush of virtual fighter combat. Take that away and you'd basically have mortal combat with airplanes (aka the DA)...I'm sure that'd be fun for about 3 or 4 minutes...
I will cherry pick anyone who lets me, but I will say those with great SA I very rarely cherry pick. So, if you're getting picked alot the problem is your SA not the opportunistic bastards that are exploiting your lack thereof...
__________________
"Zazen"
of
The Army of
"Das Muppets"
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Hiya Cap.
Sad as it sounds, I have to agree with Zazen. :D
My philosophy is...if you fly like a cherry, someone will make a pie out of you!
It's all part of the game. For me, the only real issue is when that is all the picker can do...kinda like vulching. :)
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
My philosophy is...if you fly like a cherry, someone will make a pie out of you!
Amen.
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Originally posted by Daubie
Well said.
Few here (AHII) have read or if they have, apply what this guy teaches.
Easy kills are way safer for me.
I love it the way most guys want you to fight THEIR fight, usually six to one. They brag how great they are, but rare it is, just one on one.
1)believe it or not, i've actually managed to have a couple of 1-1 fights, inside a furball......it seemed as though everyone else was just too busy to bother me or my bogie. just that fact alone made them a coupel of the most fun 1-1's i've flown yet...constantly lookin over my shoulder to make sure i'm not bout to get jumped, and i'm sure he was doin the same...
I fly solo almost exclusively and violating Kylander's primary rule.
2)well...i am in a squadron(the hired guns), and i like all of them...they're a great bunch of guys. for a small squadron, we're pretty well rounded too. when we do any squad ops in EW, we do combine ground and air assualts together(landgrabbin{:{). sonetimes when i come to LW, there may be one or two of my squaddies there, but i normally fly alone in LW....unless i happen to hook up with someone who doesn't mind me taggin along with them(most of the time it seems they're glad to have a wingie)
I follow the better players around. I go find where they fly out of. Tape the sortie and I go find them. I watch. I play all sides, all arenas. These guys, most, start a base back, gain altitude and fly INTO the fight or the fringe. It is rather dangerous to hop into the furball and risk that stray shot and part of why these guys' scores are so low.
3) i do the same sometimes....i film, and watch too..win or lose....try to see exactly WHERE in the fight i went wrong. i try to see WHAT it was i did wrong, and i try to see WHEN i did it so i can recognize the circumstances in the next fight. as for alt...i(since i still suck)prefer around 1 to 3k alt advantage....but i'm perfectly happy to be co-alt to my bogie too. with alt advantage, i think i'm about 60-40 in favor of surviving, co-alt, 50-50, and alt disadvantage.......i think i'm around 80-20 AGAINST surviving.:O ....so far
{:{
Whew, points don't matter!
4)agreed........my only problem, is IF i get the kill, or simply get out of the fight in flying condition, i NEED to get my aircraft back to friendly territory, and hopefully to an airbase...sounds stupid i know, but it doesn't feel right any other way. don't care bout points....do care bout gettin my ride home and not pissin off the line chief:aok
here i will repeat myself though.......i wasn't intending to insult, or label anyone.......was mostly lookin for opinions(gettin plenty :aok )and any advice that may be included in those opinions...some in here are awsome at giving good advice
<>
john
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Hiya Cap.
Sad as it sounds, I have to agree with Zazen. :D
My philosophy is...if you fly like a cherry, someone will make a pie out of you!
It's all part of the game. For me, the only real issue is when that is all the picker can do...kinda like vulching. :)
howdy NB!!!!<> haven't gotten to fly with ya for awhile.......
yes, i understand that........and i thought the guy i hit first never saw me.....as i figured he was too focused on his target 5k below us........but then i think it was spatula or dedalos mentioned that he may have seen me but been ignoring me as he was setting up for his next dive. so i tried to get his attention:D :rofl with .50 cal and 20mm:D
hope to see ya soon dude.....hey....and if/when you've got time to maybe teach a bit.....i'd REALLY appreciate it......
<>
john
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Hiya Cap.
My philosophy is...if you fly like a cherry, someone will make a pie out of you!
hey....what if i fly like a banana??????
will he slip on my peel and fall into the ocean????
:D :O :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by CAP1
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Hiya Cap.
My philosophy is...if you fly like a cherry, someone will make a pie out of you!
hey....what if i fly like a banana??????
will he slip on my peel and fall into the ocean????
:D :O :rofl :rofl :rofl
Welllll,
He could turn you into a Banana Split :D
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Originally posted by Rino
Welllll,
He could turn you into a Banana Split :D
damn.....i don't have a comeback for that one!!!!!!!!!:aok
:rofl :rofl