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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mr No Name on July 10, 2007, 05:12:58 PM

Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Mr No Name on July 10, 2007, 05:12:58 PM
Anyone seen this?  I am trying to figure out why exactly...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8Q97U100&show_article=1 (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8Q97U100&show_article=1)
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Wolfala on July 10, 2007, 05:14:35 PM
Kurdistan. They want to be recognized as an independent state - and they have  a lot of oil - which would give them leverage.
Title: Re: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 10, 2007, 06:59:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mr No Name
Anyone seen this?  I am trying to figure out why exactly...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8Q97U100&show_article=1 (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8Q97U100&show_article=1)


The kurds have always wanted self autonomy.  However, there's a good portion of kurds near that area in Turkey as well.  If the Kurds of Iraq go solo, the kurds of Turkey will want to join as well, taking with them from both Iraq and Turkey some pretty decent oil wells.


Turkey is almost as violent to the kurds as Hussein was.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: john9001 on July 10, 2007, 07:03:54 PM
oh sure, the turks didn't want to help with iraq but now they want a piece of the action.  Turkey is not now and has never been an "ally" of the USA.

arm the kurds, to hell with the turks.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: AWMac on July 10, 2007, 07:05:49 PM
Turks are rats.

The only good Turk is a ..............

Fact


Mac
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 10, 2007, 07:17:38 PM
OK the US says that satellites havent picked anything up.

Did anyone think to put eyes on the ground there?
Its not like a satellite is in the proper place 24-7 to pick everything up ALL the time.

Now maybe there arent there. maybe there are.
But one personal observation is worth 1,000 reports or 100 satellite images
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: OOZ662 on July 10, 2007, 07:44:14 PM
(http://www.takingdownwords.com/photos/uncategorized/turkey.jpg)
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Viking on July 10, 2007, 08:01:59 PM
The Kurd militants are terrorists. That you guys side with the terrorists instead of your NATO ally is ... exactly what I have come to expect from you. Hypocrites.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 10, 2007, 08:55:28 PM
Yeah, imagine that.  The USA siding with a group of people that just want to be left alone.  I wonder why we do that...
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 10, 2007, 09:01:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yeah, imagine that.  The USA siding with a group of people that just want to be left alone.  I wonder why we do that...



So then you side with the Iraqi insurgents?  After all, they just want us to leave them alone.  The KDP and the PUK are terrorist organizations, pure and simple.


ack-ack
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: storch on July 10, 2007, 09:20:03 PM
I have to agree with viking
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 10, 2007, 09:57:52 PM
The Iraqi insurgents are not from Iraq.  Or at least, the vast majority of them are not.  Foreign fighters can't go into iraq and then ask to be left alone.  The foreign fighters are there to kill rival sects, kill Americans, and try to gain control over non-Kurdish Iraq.

However, the Kurds just want to hang out in kurdistan and rule themselves.

I seem to recall many europeans felt the same way from 1500-1900.  My history being a little hazy at this late hour, but I also recall that these people could easily be called terrorists for what they did.  Hell, these people even went out and killed hundreds of thousands of themselves.


But then again, I could be mis-remembering that.  It's not like I've studied history or anything...
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: john9001 on July 10, 2007, 10:02:06 PM
"your NATO ally ", BS ,turkey would not let US troops cross turkey to go into  northern iraq. Turkey is not a friend of the US as much as a enemy of russia.

It's time the US redefined just who is a friend (ally) and who is not.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: FrodeMk3 on July 10, 2007, 11:39:46 PM
Back in the late '50's and early '60's, we based a lot of varied military assets there-radio listening posts, interceptors, IRBM's with nuke warheads, Bombers(with nuclear weapons), Aerial tankers for SAC, etc.

Now, that was over with the end of the Iron curtain. Where that relationship stands now, is open to speculation.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Mr No Name on July 10, 2007, 11:46:26 PM
Thats exactly why I was interested, my dad was a military policeman attached to a B52 wing there.  His personal favorite plane at the time was the B58 though!  ;)
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Masherbrum on July 10, 2007, 11:59:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
Turks are rats.

The only good Turk is a ..............

Fact


Mac
For most of the region this is true.    Save Israel.    The rest?   Who cares.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Scherf on July 11, 2007, 12:01:06 AM
Viking, Ack-Ack and Storch all agree on something.

Truly, these are the end times.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: -tronski- on July 11, 2007, 12:48:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
"your NATO ally ", BS ,turkey would not let US troops cross turkey to go into  northern iraq. Turkey is not a friend of the US as much as a enemy of russia.
 
It's time the US redefined just who is a friend (ally) and who is not.

 
No, but they did let US aircraft overfly their territory - and they were once the third largest troop contributor to the ISAF in afghanistan (also the first country to twice lead the ISAF) who currently have 1200 soldiers west of Kabaul and are the sole Muslim contributor. They have been very successful in countering the Taleban, and winning over the local populace due to their experience in countering terrorist groups like the PKK ie. The Kurdish Workers Party
 
Your very quick to turn on your friends...

 Tronsky
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: tedrbr on July 11, 2007, 01:15:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The Iraqi insurgents are not from Iraq.  Or at least, the vast majority of them are not. ....

Um..... yes they are ...actually by definition of the term "insurgents", and the reality on the ground in Iraq, most of the insurgents ARE Iraqis.  Primarily Sunni, and many and Bathists or former Bathists, or supported by former Bathists.

You are confusing "insurgents" with "foreign fighters" (aka al Qaida in Iraq among other groups).... you also have the sectarian forces/militas/and death-squads, and militias following various tribal and religious leaders in Iraq, and some criminal organizations that sprang up after the occupation.

The insurgents -- as well as the sectarian forces, and the various militias -- all outnumber the foreign fighters --- but the foreign fighters cause the coalition forces the most problems and most damage on the basis per fighter involved, and to the mission overall, and probably primarily behind the bombing of the Golden Mosque that started the flare up in sectarian violence.  Foreign fighterts are better equipped and better trained for the most part, and often better coordinated.

The insurgents are responsible for more attacks in overall numbers... and much of the IED's and VBIED's and lately sniper fire, but many are on a smaller scale and less successful than the foreign fighters, man for man.  The sectarian groups and militias spend most of their time fighting each other and killing civilians and police.  

Then you have Iranians joining the fray in the role of technical support to various (Shia' ) factions... money, explosives, training, and so forth... some in sectarian violence, some to the insurgency.  

The foreign fighters tend to come in through Syria, and come from many countries in the region, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Egypt, and such... but their numbers are small compared to the Iraqis in the fight.  They just tend to make a big impact against coalition forces due to training, coordination and equipment.
 
Quote
However, the Kurds just want to hang out in kurdistan and rule themselves.

Yes, which is why no one else in the region likes the Kurds.  No one wants to give up land to them, since historic "Kurdistan" lies in Iraq, Turkey, and Iran.

As to Turkey's massing forces along the border, it is response to increased PKK activity .... Turks have been making overtures toward Kurdish leaders this past year on the diplomatic front, but they are getting fed up with attacks in their territory from Kurds of the PKK operating in northern Iraq.


Similarly, Iranian forces have been reported to be crossing the border into Iraq --- in some cases, also to attack Kurds of the PKK in the north, but also spotted in the south by British forces.  I also saw something about a report of a build up of Iranian troops along the Iraqi border.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Nilsen on July 11, 2007, 02:14:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
"your NATO ally ", BS ,turkey would not let US troops cross turkey to go into  northern iraq. Turkey is not a friend of the US as much as a enemy of russia.

It's time the US redefined just who is a friend (ally) and who is not.


NP there... you redefine who is a friend and who is not all the time.  ;)
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Viking on July 11, 2007, 02:20:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
"your NATO ally ", BS ,turkey would not let US troops cross turkey to go into  northern iraq. Turkey is not a friend of the US as much as a enemy of russia.

It's time the US redefined just who is a friend (ally) and who is not.


NATO is an alliance of defense, not aggression. The US/UK decided to invade Iraq on their own accord in violation of the UN Charter, against the will of the UN Security Council and against the will of Turkey; they were fully within their rights to deny you access to their border to commit acts of war they considered illegal. Turkey (among others) are now paying for your misguided adventure in Iraq with increasing number of terrorist/separatist attacks and domestic Islamic fundamentalism. Being your ally is not easy or popular these days in that part of the world.

There are no ends to the problems you people have made for Turkey, especially considering their plans to become an EU member. If someone has reasons to "redefine" who's an ally or not, it's Turkey (among others).
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Viking on July 11, 2007, 02:21:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Scherf
Viking, Ack-Ack and Storch all agree on something.

Truly, these are the end times.


Heh :)
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: FrodeMk3 on July 11, 2007, 06:49:16 AM
Origanally posted by DREDIOCK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK the US says that satellites havent picked anything up.

Did anyone think to put eyes on the ground there?
Its not like a satellite is in the proper place 24-7 to pick everything up ALL the time.

Now maybe there arent there. maybe there are.
But one personal observation is worth 1,000 reports or 100 satellite images
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If they can hide 140,000 men, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 divisions, from our Spy satelite's and aerial recon, We've got a lesson or two to learn from the turks. That force should be pretty easy to detect, at that size.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Viking on July 11, 2007, 07:38:44 AM
Turkey is pretty forested, even in the border areas near Iraq; you can hide a whole army there. Just like the Serbs showed us during the Kosovo conflict.
Title: Turkey Masses 140,000 Troops on Iraqi Border
Post by: Yeager on July 11, 2007, 10:16:02 AM
Truly, these are the end times.
====
Or a new age of enlightenment.

The US needs to demonstrate good will and lead the world, not demonstrate selfish imperialism and subvert it.  

Learn from the mistakes of every other world power in history.