Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: OOZ662 on July 10, 2007, 06:49:13 PM

Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 10, 2007, 06:49:13 PM
I've gone through Denholm's TE tutorial and have just started looking around. The only "bad news" to me so far was the horrid thought of having to lay down every terrain tile. Then I came across this combo. Everything looked fine and dandy until I saw I needed to register Terragen to get the correct file for Tile Setter. I cannot afford $79 just so I can make maps. Is there another way to do this?

I've seen a bitmap "heightfield" technique for the TE before, but I don't know how to do that.

An help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Dux on July 10, 2007, 07:51:38 PM
Ooz, if you're talking about just being able to assign tiles, there's a way to open a TYP file in PhotoShop* if you have it. You'd still be painting pixels by hand, but it beats scrolling through the entire terrain in the TE.


*probably in PSP or GIMP as well, but I'm not familiar with them.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 10, 2007, 07:55:30 PM
I'm completely clueless as to how to do anything but manually assign each tile by tile in the TE at this point... :confused:

I've got a lot of free time on my hands and was going to begin work on an MA map, but th only thing stopping me is the actual creation of the terrain.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Dux on July 10, 2007, 08:03:22 PM
Question to the old-timers...

Didn't the old BMP2Map program have an automatic tile assignment feature? Anyone still have a copy of it? I believe it was made by AKWabbit.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 10, 2007, 08:07:22 PM
They had some talk of that in the Tile Setter thread, I just had no idea what they were talking about.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Dux on July 10, 2007, 08:17:22 PM
Just did a quick Google search for it... they had it over at AH-Terrains but that page seems to be down now. Maybe NHawk still has a copy of it somewhere...?

There seems to be another utility out there called BMP2MAP, but it's for creating Quake maps, so be careful to make sure it's the right one.

Anyway... IIRC, BMP2Map would let you import a greyscale elevation map, and based on certain settings that you put in, would assign different tiles based on slope, elevation, etc. This just might be the thing you're looking for.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Dux on July 10, 2007, 08:24:08 PM
Ooz, I just found a copy of it... send me your e-mail, and I'll mail it back to you. It's not somewhere that I can give you direct access to.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: mrmidi on July 10, 2007, 10:44:38 PM
I'm just learning my self for about the 100th time:rolleyes:
I use a grayscale .bmp and tilesetter, I took a color .jpg of the
Galapolose Islands (spelling) and edited it in PS and then used it to set the tiles with tilesetter.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 03:17:13 AM
AH-Terrains was shut down over a year ago because nobody was using it. I have all of the utilities on a CD somewhere

BMP2Map by AKRabbit imports grayscale elevations and assigns textures/tiles to the terrain. So he'd need to do an elevation file anyway.

Mapmaker by Ogre imports .DEM files.

Tilesetter by Machnix imports Terragen files, sets terrain tiles creates a CB map and some other neat things.

Tilesetter by me sets both terrain tiles and sub-tiles.

Map2BMP by me creates a rough CB map.

There's one more recent addition that I don't have permission to distribute.

Personally I've gone to using Photoshop for .DEM files and elevation BMPs, the importer that's built into the TE and my tilesetter.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Avaro on July 11, 2007, 04:04:55 AM
Not quite sure what your asking. If you asking how to set multi tiles go with MachNix's tilesetter. As for terragen register? lol.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 04:33:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Avaro
Not quite sure what your asking. If you asking how to set multi tiles go with MachNix's tilesetter. As for terragen register? lol.
He's asking about setting elevations using MachNix's tilesetter. And he says he can't afford Terragen which is what the Tilesetter imports.

And you just stepped out onto thin ice with your registration comment.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 11:56:15 AM
Wow...that CD makes me drool. :D
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: MachNix on July 11, 2007, 12:15:42 PM
Was going through the website’s access logs and notice some activity on the tile set program and figured I better stop in a see what is going on.

I put up a newer version (v2.4) of the program that has the ability to use grayscale files to set elevations.

tileset.exe (v2.4) (http://www.wildandfreed.com/ah/tileset.exe)
tileset help (v2.3) (http://www.wildandfreed.com/ah/tileset.txt)

The greyscale files have to be 1024x1024, gray scaled (indexed to 256), and saved with “_elv.bmp” extension (ex myterr_elv.bmp).  The tile set program works the same as it did with Terragen files except there is a new checkbox to preserve 0 as water.  Adding a checkmark in this box keeps shorelines from migrating when terrain smoothing is applied.

Even though the program is newer, it is pre version 2.10 of AH and the names of the terrain tiles may have changed.  For example “Grassy Rock” may still point to terr0002.bmp but it may now be called “Swamp” or something else.  I’m on dial-up and don’t want to take the 12 hours to download the latest version of the terrain editor to see what is new so you may need to do some testing.

G.L.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 12:26:10 PM
Machnix...Nice to hear from you again!

Thanks for the update. The tile names don't matter anymore since you can rename them in the TE itself.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 12:28:51 PM
Now here's the biggest question...where to get a greyscale? :D Do I have to make that by hand? :confused: It doesn't seem like you do with all the things you guys put out.

Really, thanks for the help guys. I hope to make something for the MAs that'll stand the test of time...at least until I grow up. :D
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: lagger86 on July 11, 2007, 12:30:22 PM
wow I was gonna give this TE a try, but after reading some of this stuff I think I'll just pass. Good luck OOZ.:aok
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 12:31:23 PM
Well geeze, that wasn't my intent... :huh


..... :noid
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: lagger86 on July 11, 2007, 12:38:25 PM
I'll give it a try, I just basically haven't understood anything that anyone is saying. My knowledge of computer stuff is limited, but so is my tolerance for the limited number of maps in the MA. So yeah It's worth a try.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 12:40:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Now here's the biggest question...where to get a greyscale? :D Do I have to make that by hand? :confused: It doesn't seem like you do with all the things you guys put out.

Really, thanks for the help guys. I hope to make something for the MAs that'll stand the test of time...at least until I grow up. :D
If the CD makes you drool, you'd cry if I told you I can make a usable grayscale in about 20 seconds about 90% of the time. ;)

You can make them by hand. Use Terragen, or any one of many terrain creation programs.

Baby steps my friend...baby steps. Get use to the TE before you dive in and make a terrain for the MA. :)

You'll find posts from me in this forum dating back to 2003. I didn't submit my first terrain until 2006.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 12:47:35 PM
Yes, but how? :) Damned secrets of the masters! If you tel me you do it by hand...well...I really don't know what I'd do. :confused: Practice, I guess.

I wasn't planning on it going right the first time. I might as well start on something big and make my screwups than many small things before starting to screw up on the big project. :D

EDIT: I do feel rather comfortable with the TE's interface and how it works. If I had to lay down tile by tile I could do it. Just that even I don't have time for that on an MA standard map.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 12:48:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Yes, but how? :) Damned secrets of the masters! If you tel me you do it by hand...well...I really don't know what I'd do. :confused: Practice, I guess.

I wasn't planning on it going right the first time. I might as well start on something big and make my screwups than many small things before starting to screw up on the big project. :D
Google "Terrain Generator".

Most if not all require purchase.

DEM (Digital Elevation Model) files are free.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 12:50:46 PM
If I swung that way...I'd love you. :rofl

(Good thing for you, eh? :eek: )
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 12:51:32 PM
Well, if it's more affordable than Terragen, I'll be happy.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 12:52:58 PM
Making them by hand really isn't that hard if you know how to use Photoshop or Paint Shop. It just takes practice.

I do occasionally make them by hand too.

In general, here's what a grayscale for a 256 mile map should look like. Except it should be 1024 x 1024.

(http://www.brewsterbuffalos.com/htc/gs.jpg)
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Ghastly on July 11, 2007, 03:10:05 PM
Nhawk, is your tilesetter generally available, or is access to it restricted?

Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: NHawk on July 11, 2007, 03:39:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly
Nhawk, is your tilesetter generally available, or is access to it restricted?

Right now I don't have it available online anywhere but it works in a similar manner to the one MachNix posted above. Just use the tilesetter portion and not the import portion.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Dux on July 11, 2007, 04:09:05 PM
Ooz, the only secrets the masters have is that they have practice at it. Try it a couple of times, you'll see it ain't so hard.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
I made a random map in Terrain Generator and put it through a lot of trial-and-error on the Tile setter program, but the best I've come up with is varying degrees of this:

(http://www.geekstudmuffin.com/images/930125666untitled.JPG)

Whereas this is the image I started with (before resizing)

(http://www.geekstudmuffin.com/images/105634118image.bmp)
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 04:25:09 PM
Ah, I think I've figured it out.

MachNix (or anyone who knows), how large should the "square" in the center of the image be for Tile Setter? I took the color map outputted by Tile Setter and measured that the terrain seemed to be 550 pixels squared, so I adjusted the greyscale to that and got a decent result. Is there a set size that square should be on the 1024x1024 image?
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: mrmidi on July 11, 2007, 04:47:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
Right now I don't have it available online anywhere but it works in a similar manner to the one MachNix posted above. Just use the tilesetter portion and not the import portion.


NHawk if you want a perm, place to host it I'll put on my site for ya if you like.

Let me know.

Mid
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Easyscor on July 11, 2007, 04:49:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Ah, I think I've figured it out.

MachNix (or anyone who knows), how large should the "square" in the center of the image be for Tile Setter? I took the color map outputted by Tile Setter and measured that the terrain seemed to be 550 pixels squared, so I adjusted the greyscale to that and got a decent result. Is there a set size that square should be on the 1024x1024 image?
The bitmap needs to be 1024 x 1024, 256 levels of grayscale.
At 1024x1024 pixels (all AH terrains are) you get a 512x512 'map'.
Areas 'outside the map' should be pure black.
If you want a 256x256 'map', you need a good grayscale image in the middle that's 512x512 (256 x 2 = 512) leaving a pure black boarder around that which will turn into water and not eat up frame rates.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: OOZ662 on July 11, 2007, 04:53:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Easyscor
If you want a 256x256 'map', you need a good grayscale image in the middle that's 512x512 leaving a pure black boarder around that which will turn into water and not eat up frame rates.


Ah, that makes sense since all maps are actually 512x512. So you'd use the "Make Map" feature and crop off all the extra water on the edges before "Building" the terrain in this case, right?
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Easyscor on July 11, 2007, 05:52:19 PM
Regardless of your 'map' size, all terrains have 1024x1024 vertice.
On your bitmap, each vertice must be represented by a pixel.
If you 'crop' the bitmap, you'll loose the necessary pixels, I'm saying to turn them pure black instead, it's still 1024x1024.
Title: Terragen and Tile Setter
Post by: Avaro on July 11, 2007, 06:12:11 PM
I can make a realistic terrain in about 2 minuets. What i do is export terragen .raw files open in photoshop. After that it'll ask the size you want to open it as go with what it pops up with. What is should say is 257x257. This part depends on the size of your map.. It's been so long since i've played with te but i think it goes like this. If your making a 256x256 map make the .raw file 512x512. Now you'll need to open a new file (1024x1024) with a black background. Copy all of this raw file paste in center of new 1024x1024 file. Now set as greyscale save as bmp 8 bit then open TE and import say 12000 feet. Tada your terrain now has mountains! Save and close TE open Tilesetter find the correct .elv and .typ files and set tiles and (optional) subtiles. Now your done with tiles and your realistic mountians! If you want to make your map a little more realistic open up your 1024x1024 file agian (psd) and get a brush and black out the edges. Now you wont see a half mile wall around your terrain. It will now slowly smooth out to sea level.

Sorry about my grammer.. English was not my best subject!:D

An ex: (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6214/avexio8.jpg)

I can doctor it a little to make it a little more realistic but this was fast example.