Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: battel gnome94 on July 10, 2007, 09:30:28 PM
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i say HQ's are to strong because it takes 37 1000 lb to take it down but relly thats way to much i could se 20 or 30 thousand lb but 37 1000 lb relly to much.
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30,000 is ok, but 37,000 is too much?
Just want to clarify that...
A fully loaded lancaster formation can carry 42,000 lbs (according to soda's reference page) of ordinance and a lone skilled bomber can personally ruin game play for an entire side.
if anything they should make HQ "stronger"
but that's just my opinion.
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ya true but wat about all the fightes and AA guns that could esayly distroy the bombers befor they get there
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My brain hurts for some reason after reading this......
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As a destroyed HQ has (temporarily) the biggest impact on gameplay, it has to be the most difficult target to destroy.
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37k is too strong? HQ was built by the lowest bidder. Just think how strong it would be if it was built by someone who knew what they were doing.
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I copied this from another thread. Oh, it was me that wrote it.
That 37,000 Lbs figure is 2 years out of date. If HQ ain't been hit you'll need 3 sets of Lancs carrying a total of 126,0000 Lbs. 5 sets of B24's or 5 sets B17's also kills HQ.
Others have argued that it is still 37K but only the middle or only 1 bomber actually hits HQ. Meaning HQ unlike other structures isn't effect by "blast radius". I've seen HQ taken out with 3 sets of Lancs. I've yet to see it taken out by 3 solo Lancs.
Anyone intrigued by what I've written feel free to prove me wrong
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Originally posted by LYNX
Anyone intrigued by what I've written feel free to prove me wrong
I will say in the past while in-game in the MA you could bring up the arena settings and view them, just not change them. that is no longer possible, so unless HTC wants to divulge those numbers an actual "test" is not truly possibly due to the many variables in an online arena
a "direct" hit in the best possible alignment, trajectory, and grouping would not be that hard offline to test to see how much it takes exactly.
why not ask the bish, rooks, knits if you can unabated hit their HQ just as a test online and well... ;)
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200 targets strewn about the map and your worried about a single HQ? It takes out Dar for crying out loud.
Look at how the strat works in game, focus on that. You can do alot of damage taking out Troop Factories and Then taking out troops or other strat stuff. Come on, get outta that box.
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Originally posted by ROC
200 targets strewn about the map and your worried about a single HQ? It takes out Dar for crying out loud.
Look at how the strat works in game, focus on that. You can do alot of damage taking out Troop Factories and Then taking out troops or other strat stuff. Come on, get outta that box.
We have strats? :huh
BTW first you wanna take the City(s) down to below 50% this slows down the re sup time to the other factories IE Troops Ack Ammo Radar etc. Then once the city is below 50% and the strats hit below 50% hit the troops and ord at the base they will stay down for a good 3 hours (I think)If there not re supped by anyone.
Of course its been so long since I did this kind of stuff Im sure theres something wrong with what I said.
(I used to do nothing but high alt bombing runs on strategic targets hehe.)
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Originally posted by LYNX
Anyone intrigued by what I've written feel free to prove me wrong
I've done this in B-17's from 18,000 feet. Not enough bombs to drop the HQ, but within the realm of possibility for Lancs. If you slow down to a slow cruise speed for drop, punch off all 14 bombs with minimum delay, use a perfectly calibrated drop, and center the building in the sight at release, you can get the entire package to hit the building. Not easy for your typical HQ raider, but possible. The lower the altitude and slower the speed the tighter the dispersion of the bombs will be.
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Originally posted by battel gnome94
i say HQ's are to strong because it takes 37 1000 lb to take it down but relly thats way to much i could se 20 or 30 thousand lb but 37 1000 lb relly to much.
Welcome to 2005.
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Originally posted by JB73
I will say in the past while in-game in the MA you could bring up the arena settings and view them, just not change them. that is no longer possible, so unless HTC wants to divulge those numbers an actual "test" is not truly possibly due to the many variables in an online arena
You can still get into the arena settings offline or when hosting an H2H room so you could check it there. AFAIK what you see default in there is the same as the arenas. I would check it myself but the games not workin on my machine right now and I'm far too lazy to troubleshoot it.
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Originally posted by battel gnome94
ya true but wat about all the fightes and AA guns that could esayly distroy the bombers befor they get there
skome1 n3eds da sphell ch3cker.
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Originally posted by Geary420
You can still get into the arena settings offline or when hosting an H2H room so you could check it there. AFAIK what you see default in there is the same as the arenas. I would check it myself but the games not workin on my machine right now and I'm far too lazy to troubleshoot it.
what a good idea..... so i went and looked but couldn't find HQ listed anywhere. It could be listed as a city building though but you would have to know which one. Back to square one --------->
Anyone intrigued by what I've written feel free to prove me wrong
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Originally posted by battel gnome94
ya true but wat about all the fightes and AA guns that could esayly distroy the bombers befor they get there
Most bomber fly at 20k, where the ack and very few fighters will bother them. Stop flying your bombers like dive bomber, get above 5k, and you may survive better :D
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Can anyone briefly advise what is the impact when the HQ is destroyed.
With teamates, we destroyed it(Enemy HQ) the other day.
Subsequently I checked the enemy country status and it showed that RADAR indicators / counters where DISABLED...
I checked same 15minutes later and ALL was back to ENABLE !
Can anyone write down what happens ?
Or point out to me where it is writen on the Aces High site.
We're gettin different answers from everyone !
Tks
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Originally posted by Phil
Can anyone briefly advise what is the impact when the HQ is destroyed.
With teamates, we destroyed it(Enemy HQ) the other day.
Subsequently I checked the enemy country status and it showed that RADAR indicators / counters where DISABLED...
I checked same 15minutes later and ALL was back to ENABLE !
Can anyone write down what happens ?
Or point out to me where it is writen on the Aces High site.
We're gettin different answers from everyone !
Tks
In a nutshell:
When HQ is destroyed, all DAR is lost.
Maximum downtime is 2h.
However, players can choose to resupply HQ with C47 / M3 carrying Field Supplies. If enough players do it, HQ can be back up in short time. (Takes about 8 supply loads, but I'm not sure about that number)
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Originally posted by Phil
Can anyone briefly advise what is the impact when the HQ is destroyed.
With teamates, we destroyed it(Enemy HQ) the other day.
Subsequently I checked the enemy country status and it showed that RADAR indicators / counters where DISABLED...
I checked same 15minutes later and ALL was back to ENABLE !
Can anyone write down what happens ?
Or point out to me where it is writen on the Aces High site.
We're gettin different answers from everyone !
Tks
In short killing HQ disables all that country's radar. However HQ can be resupplied with field cargo. Only 8 boxes are needed to rebuild / enable HQ country wide radar again.
Personally HQ bombing is only fit for chits a giggles. Doesn't really have any lasting effects. You score next to nothing for killing HQ. HQ will be resupplied before your flight is a 1/4 way home.
HQ bombing is only worth doing in 1 or 2 situations. 1) You control bases next to enemy HQ. 2) You have killed every barracks on enemy fields next to their HQ. Not easy to do I'll add.
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Originally posted by LYNX
what a good idea..... so i went and looked but couldn't find HQ listed anywhere. It could be listed as a city building though but you would have to know which one. Back to square one --------->
Anyone intrigued by what I've written feel free to prove me wrong
Default values, under "Object Settings" Lynx...
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/stonewall74/ahss32.jpg)
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Default values, under "Object Settings" Lynx...
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/stonewall74/ahss32.jpg)
Yer thanks for that but I must insist on my previous statement referring to 3 sets of lancs because I've yet to see it taken out by 3 solo Lancs.
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So what happens if you take out a tower?
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Don't know, but with a downtime of 30 minutes, it might be an interesting experiment--or a runway for that matter...
Lynx, I'll try my technique offline, roll tape, and come back with the results.
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I believe a hanger takes 3000 lbs to drop. If you proportion the hardness value for HQ that you see in the screenshot above to the hardness value of the hangers that you see above you will notice that HQ is 120 times tougher than a hanger. If you go by this it means that you would need 120 x 3000lbs = 360,000 lbs to take out HQ. Now that couldn't be right, could it?
Course, I need 360,000 lbs to take out a hanger, cause I do a whole lot of missin….
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Even when turning down hardness to 0.0001 I couldn't destroy Tower (contrary to all other objects on base).
After manually destroying Tower via Arena Setting, I found no other effect than a pure graphical one.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Most bomber fly at 20k, where the ack and very few fighters will bother them. Stop flying your bombers like dive bomber, get above 5k, and you may survive better :D
Ack reaches 20K easily. I got zapped by one while buff hunting in a 190 last week.
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Originally posted by SunBat
I believe a hanger takes 3000 lbs to drop. If you proportion the hardness value for HQ that you see in the screenshot above to the hardness value of the hangers that you see above you will notice that HQ is 120 times tougher than a hanger. If you go by this it means that you would need 120 x 3000lbs = 360,000 lbs to take out HQ. Now that couldn't be right, could it?
Course, I need 360,000 lbs to take out a hanger, cause I do a whole lot of missin….
the "Hangar" you see on that picture above is not one of the Hangars you usually drop.
VH= Veh Hgr
FH= Ftr Hgr
BH= Bomb Hgr
and all have a default hardness of 2.7812
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Originally posted by Lusche
the "Hangar" you see on that picture above is not one of the Hangars you usually drop.
VH= Veh Hgr
FH= Ftr Hgr
BH= Bomb Hgr
and all have a default hardness of 2.7812
Ahh, ok, thanks. Makes more sense now.
That would mean it would require 40,450 lbs to drop HQ....
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Originally posted by JB73
I will say in the past while in-game in the MA you could bring up the arena settings and view them, just not change them. that is no longer possible, so unless HTC wants to divulge those numbers an actual "test" is not truly possibly due to the many variables in an online arena
I think the DA has an HQ for bombing practice. IF I am right, it should be easy to test
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Originally posted by SunBat
Ahh, ok, thanks. Makes more sense now.
That would mean it would require 40,450 lbs to drop HQ....
Close but not quite right.
The hardness is given in 1000lbs bombs. That means a hangar needs 2719 lbs of ords to go down, which is most easily achieved with 3x1000 or 6x500 lbs bombs. Hence the "3000lbs" we usually say in game. But you can do it with less than 3000lbs if you for example drop 2500 lbs on it and then strafe it down finish it off with rockets.
The HQ thus needs 37500 lbs, not 40450. (If MA in fact uses the "default" setting!)
Please note that most of the time it seems that HQ needs way more than that, because it's not easy to drop all of your formations' bombs exactly on the HQ building itself. And we all have seen several formations of Lancs plastering their bombs around the building without any effect ;)
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Originally posted by dedalos
I think the DA has an HQ for bombing practice. IF I am right, it should be easy to test
There are HQs in DA, but if you nland hits on the HQ building, System message gives you several "Radar Factory destroyed messages". I got about a dozen of that messages with two considerable well aimed & slow low level Lanc attacks. The building was still up, though ;)
And those messages came from hitting the HQ only, because only 2 buildings in the adjacent town were destroyed.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Default values, under "Object Settings" Lynx...
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/stonewall74/ahss32.jpg)
This is a little off topic, but can we take down towers and runways? And what will it cause if we do?
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Originally posted by Lusche
There are HQs in DA, but if you nland hits on the HQ building, System message gives you several "Radar Factory destroyed messages". I got about a dozen of that messages with two considerable well aimed & slow low level Lanc attacks. The building was still up, though ;)
And those messages came from hitting the HQ only, because only 2 buildings in the adjacent town were destroyed.
Ahh, oh well
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Originally posted by dedalos
I think the DA has an HQ for bombing practice. IF I am right, it should be easy to test
though the DA has supre increased hardness settings form the MA to "dissuade" field capture, hangar bashing, what have you.
I would hazard a guess that if you kill an HQ in the DA it will either be:
A: extremely hard to kill
b: extremely short rebuild time
as let's pretend you did kill an HQ in the DA, one side, rooks, knits, bish would lose dar, and that would make dueling not feesable, and I would hazard a guess HTC has already thought of that and compensated.
you can as shown individually set the "hardness" of any object offline or in a hosted setting, independently, you can set the down time, down to under 1 second... meaning without access to the actual arena setting in the MA arenas we will not know what they are set to by HTC.
basically you are at the mercy of updates on the web site "help" for actual downtime figures, hardness, and any other settings.
also basing this off the "default" offline settings can not be counted on, as IIRC the default fuel burn offline is 1.0 while MA is 2.0
most of this MA information is held confidential for proprietary purposes and I totally agree with that
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I remember several of us (Knights) did a HQ run with about 4 sets of buffs; I don't even know how much we buildings we knocked down but didn't seem to really affect their (believe it was Bish) radar too much; Still was fun trying though :aok
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Originally posted by DoLbY
I remember several of us (Knights) did a HQ run with about 4 sets of buffs; I don't even know how much we buildings we knocked down but didn't seem to really affect their (believe it was Bish) radar too much; Still was fun trying though :aok
Knocking down the small buildings does not do anything at HQ's, they are just decoration. They only thing you have to hit is the grey, fortress-like HQ building itself.
And with that it's an all-or nothing thing. Either it's destroyed or it is up. And so is their radar.
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Kill'n HQ. is a waste of time, bombs,fuel,mg rounds, and a waste of thread space. My humble opinion though, its worth what ya paid for it.
carry on.:cool:
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Originally posted by JB73
30,000 is ok, but 37,000 is too much?
Just want to clarify that...
A fully loaded lancaster formation can carry 42,000 lbs (according to soda's reference page) of ordinance and a lone skilled bomber can personally ruin game play for an entire side.
if anything they should make HQ "stronger"
but that's just my opinion.
I agree. Should it be that the HQ be made easier to kill. This is a simulation. Nothing should come easy. I think it should take 3 or 4 formations to kill an HQ. My humble opinion as a Jug puke!
Jugman
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what happens when you take out the HQ?
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Its a secret
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relly what dose it do?
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Originally posted by battel gnome94
relly what dose it do?
Why don't you just look it up?
small hint - Support / HELP / Strategic Targets
Looking for yourself is usually MUCH faster than waiting for any answers on this BBS
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Originally posted by Lusche
Why don't you just look it up?
small hint - Support / HELP / Strategic Targets
Looking for yourself is usually MUCH faster than waiting for any answers on this BBS
you've blown it now. You went and told everyone where the secret game instructions are.
:furious .........:lol
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Originally posted by LYNX
you've blown it now. You went and told everyone where the secret game instructions are.
:furious .........:lol
You sure he will find 'em? ;)
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Originally posted by Lusche
You sure he will find 'em? ;)
very good point.....:rofl