Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DYNAMITE on July 11, 2007, 06:09:56 PM
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Mrs. LBJ passed away...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19717425/?GT1=10150
My condolences.
I don't really know much about her... so I thought I'd just put it out there.
In your mind who was the best 1st lady? What makes a good 1st lady?
(Please refrain from making this a Hilary bashing session)
For me, it would have to be Eleanor Roosevelt...
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Hillary.
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(http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/7/w/I/eleanor_roosevelt2.jpg)
Eleanor Roosevelt.
:aok
Mac
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I agree. I was gonna say Eleanor Roosevelt too. :)
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She was the best 1st Lady.
No other Lady can compare.
:aok
Mac
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If you mentioned FDR, when my Grandpa was alive, all hell broke loose.
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elanor roosevelt was an elitist and a communist two things that just don't seem to work well together or be complimentary and yet there you have it.
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Originally posted by storch
elitist and a communist
How did you figure that out?
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Kinda funny. The people who tend to pick Elanor Roosevelt (who was a great person BTW) will also tend to bash Hillary. Both were roundly critisized in their day for getting TOO involved.
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ladybird.
:)
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oh ya I forgot
ladybird johnson
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Ladybird. She was a fine southern woman.
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My grandfather, who was the Sgt Major of the island of Tongareva during World War II, met Eleanor Roosevelt when her plane landed to refuel. He said that he had about an hour long conversation with her. I'm not sure what Mrs. Roosevelt was doing all the way out in the Pacific during a war (though Tongareva was considered in-the-rear), but my grandfather had nothing but good things to say about her.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Kinda funny. The people who tend to pick Elanor Roosevelt (who was a great person BTW) will also tend to bash Hillary. Both were roundly critisized in their day for getting TOO involved.
Trolling? See first note about Hillary.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
How did you figure that out?
by reading
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Originally posted by storch
by reading
Reading HUAC propaganda pamphlets is a bit one sided, don't you think?
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
In your mind who was the best 1st lady? What makes a good 1st lady?
LadyBird.
Best 1st Lady was Dolley Madison, cause she made those delicious cupcakes and pies and those cute little donuts that fed all the troops during the War of 1812. :aok
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Reading HUAC propaganda pamphlets is a bit one sided, don't you think?
not knowing what HUAC is in the first place would make it difficult for me to to proscribe to their propaganda. perhaps you should read up on her life yourself and then come to your own conclusion regarding the topic.
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Oh big deal... her and her construction company's Viet Nam debacle can finally be laid to rest. You know... Southland Corp? Owners of 7-11 and other fine franchises? Husband let Congress run the war in Viet Nam with meetings on Tuesday to see who we bomb on Thursday?
condolences How many of you morons out there actually even know any of the family members?
:rolleyes:
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Marilyn Monroe was a fine 2nd Lady... Ohh and Jackie O too.
:D
*But that's just me with "My Candle in the Wind"*
Mac
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Eleanor Roosevelt was a good first lady.
Ladybird, tis a sad thing.
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Originally posted by storch
not knowing what HUAC is in the first place
Then you are the one who has some reading to do.
It's just amazing how import wannabe capitalists always stretch their mouths and try to diminish life and work of those who were dedicated to better this country.
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Hello Dynamite,
Originally posted by DYNAMITE
In your mind who was the best 1st lady? What makes a good 1st lady?
(Please refrain from making this a Hilary bashing session)
For me, it would have to be Eleanor Roosevelt...
To my mind it would probably be Abigail Adams, but that may just be because I've enjoyed reading her letters to her husband so much.
To my mind there are several qualities that make a good first lady:
First and foremost she remembers that she was not elected by the people, and that first lady is not an elected office with governing power, neither was she called to be part of an executive team. She remembers that it was her husband that was elected, and that she can actually serve the American people best by supporting him in his office, and helping him to handle the stresses of this high position. She can be especially helpful if she does not add to his burdens by entangling herself in party politics, garnering a cadre of controversial friends, or creating scandals of her own. Throughout his time in office she must be a woman of tact, reserve, and decorum.
If she is wise, she can assist him by privately making known her opinions, or what information she has gathered, as an example Abigail assisted her husband greatly via her thoughts and actually by providing valuable intelligence in her written correspondance during the Revolution.
She can also be invaluable in handling the myriad of social affairs that attend the office and as a person who can meet with and entertain foreign dignataries. Also, while he is running the government, it is very difficult for a President to also adequately handle the affairs of his own family and estate. During his years in the presidency, a woman who can take over those duties (as did Martha Washington, for instance) is a gem.
Personally, I'm curious why so many people think of Eleanor as the best first lady. What qualities did she have that make her a better first lady than say Martha Washington or even Mamie Eisenhower?
- SEAGOON
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Lady-Bird Johnson. RIP
HUAC = House Unamerican Activities Committee
Now a few thoughts:
On the suggestion that Eleanor Roosevelt was an elitist and a Communist: :rofl :rofl
As to the equating of Hillary with Eleanor: :huh :O :rofl
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
My grandfather, who was the Sgt Major of the island of Tongareva during World War II, met Eleanor Roosevelt when her plane landed to refuel. He said that he had about an hour long conversation with her. I'm not sure what Mrs. Roosevelt was doing all the way out in the Pacific during a war (though Tongareva was considered in-the-rear), but my grandfather had nothing but good things to say about her.
Because she was her husband's legs, eyes, and ears for much of his Presidency. Many in the American public at the time were unaware that their President was confined to a wheelchair or leg braces.
She traveled in his stead often, and was probably even more involved in her husband's Presidency than Hillary was for Bill. She went were he could not, was his spokesman where she went, and reported what she saw and heard back to FDR.
Her very active role is probably why she can usually be found at the top of most lists for "Best 1st Lady".
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Lady-Bird Johnson. RIP
HUAC = House Unamerican Activities Committee
Now a few thoughts:
On the suggestion that Eleanor Roosevelt was an elitist and a Communist: :rofl :rofl
As to the equating of Hillary with Eleanor: :huh :O :rofl
I have read about the house un-american activities committee. the excesses of the junior senator from wisconsin did not change the fact that the roosevelt administration was mined with communists and that the roosevelt US state department was a defacto agency of the NKVD. mrs roosevelt was a best a communist sympathizer and I'll let it go at that.
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Did you also read that being a member of the Communist Party did not become a crime until after 1945?
The allegations that the Roosevelts were communist sympathizers resulted from the investigations of the newly created House Unamerican Activities Committe, whose first chairman was a conservative democrat from Texas, Martin Dies. Dies was a staunch opponent of the New Deal and did everything in his power to link the Roosevelts and members of the presidential administration to Communists and Nazi sympathizers.
Although little of substance was ever found by these witch hunts, the baseless accusations took on a life of their own and have survived to this day, and are endlessly regurgitated by those willing to believe the worst about one of our greatest presidents.
While there were certainly people working in the federal government and in the private sector who were hostile to the United States and sympathetic to the Soviet Union, such as Alger Hiss and Julius Rosenberg, to assume that the State Department was rife with communist sympathizers is laughable.
The federal government has always had people in positions of authority hostile to the very government that they served, but to contend that President Roosevelt winked at the ativities of communist subversives within his administration is ludicrous.
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Ay, FDR was one of the greatest presidents we ever had, after reading a book completely aboot the minds of the great warlords of WWII (Warlords), it was him that kept the trade of arms and supplies to Britain open, and kept Churchill and Stalin from fighting at several of their meetings. He was the guy who kept the Allies allied during WWII. He was one of our greatest presidents, and his wife one of (if not the) greatest first ladies.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Did you also read that being a member of the Communist Party did not become a crime until after 1945?
The allegations that the Roosevelts were communist sympathizers resulted from the investigations of the newly created House Unamerican Activities Committe, whose first chairman was a conservative democrat from Texas, Martin Dies. Dies was a staunch opponent of the New Deal and did everything in his power to link the Roosevelts and members of the presidential administration to Communists and Nazi sympathizers.
Although little of substance was ever found by these witch hunts, the baseless accusations took on a life of their own and have survived to this day, and are endlessly regurgitated by those willing to believe the worst about one of our greatest presidents.
While there were certainly people working in the federal government and in the private sector who were hostile to the United States and sympathetic to the Soviet Union, such as Alger Hiss and Julius Rosenberg, to assume that the State Department was rife with communist sympathizers is laughable.
The federal government has always had people in positions of authority hostile to the very government that they served, but to contend that President Roosevelt winked at the ativities of communist subversives within his administration is ludicrous.
there is irrefutable evidence that the NKVD had infiltrated the manhattan project from it's very inception with the assistance of roosevelt state department officials. it was people who viewed the affable mr roosevelt as a good president who elected him into office four times when he was actually doing incalculable harm to the nation if not western society with his harebrained policies and his execution thereof. the man needed to have gone after his second term. one of our best presidents? we are still suffering under the weight of his imbecillic and catastrophic policies to this very day.
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So...Storch....I take it then that when you turn 65, as a matter of principle, and to prove how strongly you disapprove of President Roosevelt's policies, you will refuse to draw your Social Security check?
Which of his policies, specifically do you find most dangerous?
The AAA....or the CCC....or the WPA....or the NRA? How about the PWA? And the TVA?
There were few programs as damaging as the Rural Electrification Administration and the Farm Securities Administration was there? And who could forget the subversive activities of the Southern Tenant Farmers Union and the NCAA, both of which the elitist, communistic Roosevelts gave their support to.
And don't forget the FDIC.
Yep, we would have been better off, in the long run, if the affable Mr. Roosevelt and his great-souled wife had left the country at 25% unemployment and large numbers of the populace on the point of starvation.
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Originally posted by storch
..... the man needed to have gone after his second term. one of our best presidents? we are still suffering under the weight of his imbecillic and catastrophic policies to this very day.
I'll grant you he was ineffective his 4th term due to failing health, but there was a national desire to not change horses in the middle of a war.
I'll also grant that, despite popular opinions, he did not manage to end the depression with his "New Deal" -- I also don't think laissez-faire policies would have ended the suffering much sooner, despite what FDR's critics claim --- it took a war economy and war production to finally do that in the end as the problem of the Depression was so large.
He also made mistakes in dealing with Stalin and Churchill, especially in regards to post war Europe.
Which programs of his still haunt us storch?
Are you referring to the WPA?? Works Progress Administration, that employed millions of Americans and worked to create public facilities and infrastructure, such as highways, streets, public buildings, airports, utilities, power generating dams, sewers, parks, city halls, public libraries, and recreational fields. "The WPA built 650,000 miles of roads, 78,000 bridges, 125,000 buildings, and 700 miles of airport runways." And it was disbanded in 1943.
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)? Been 70 years of Administrations and Congressional Representatives to put their stamp on the SEC since it's inception. And we haven't had a downturn on the scale of the Depression since it's formation.
Social Security?? What has happened to Social Security in the last 70 years is the fault of politicians adding more benefits and entitlements to the program over all that time. The original idea of SS is not bad, just the way it's been mismanaged for over half a century. Not FDR's fault.
His making the Presidency a more powerful position in the government? Turns out that was a good think in light America ended up fighting a World War. That he managed to force Lend Lease through to keep Russia and Britain in the fight long enough until the U.S.A. joined after Pearl Harbor was also a feat.
We are also lucky Germany declared war on the U.S. after Pearl. If they had not, would America have gone to war against just Japan? You can argue both ways.
Which exactly of FDR's policies from the 1930's and 1940's, relatively unaffected by 70 years of Washington D.C. politicians, politics, and Administrations, do we still suffer under? I am curious.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
So...Storch....I take it then that when you turn 65, as a matter of principle, and to prove how strongly you disapprove of President Roosevelt's policies, you will refuse to draw your Social Security check?
Which of his policies, specifically do you find most dangerous?
The AAA....or the CCC....or the WPA....or the NRA? How about the PWA? And the TVA?
There were few programs as damaging as the Rural Electrification Administration and the Farm Securities Administration was there? And who could forget the subversive activities of the Southern Tenant Farmers Union and the NCAA, both of which the elitist, communistic Roosevelts gave their support to.
And don't forget the FDIC.
Yep, we would have been better off, in the long run, if the affable Mr. Roosevelt and his great-souled wife had left the country at 25% unemployment and large numbers of the populace on the point of starvation.
considering that I have been paying into the system since 1973 and provided that I even qualify to receive SS payments I would most certainly want back what I have paid in. however given that a good portion of our income is derived from passive means and is becoming progressively more significant with each year I doubt that we will qualify to receive the benefits.
aside from that I fully expect to work every day of my life. I enjoy what I do so much so that I don't consider it work and I'm lucky enough to be paid to do it.
I'm one of those guys that started digging his well long before he was thirsty and in the process of excavating stumbled onto a spring.
yup great programs now what we have is a populace that believes in entitlements. I find all of mr roosevelts socialistic schemes to be the antithesis of what made america in the first place. in another generation we will be like europe and the genesis of that decline was the oyster bay roosevelt and exascerbated by the hyde park one. poor america, it's gone down hill ever since.
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The New Deal programs were mostly work programs my friend....not entitlements.
As I've said before, Americans didn't want handouts, they wanted work. They took pride in the work ethic and simply wanted the government to guarantee a chance at
The modern "entitlement" programs of which you so strongly object were part of Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" legislative movement, not the New Deal.
By and large it was the same group of Congressmen who created the Great Society programs who started dipping into the Social Security fund to finance them. Until then, 1974 I believe, Social Security operated as it was meant to, and was solvent. Again, that was not the fault of the Roosevelts or the New Deal.
You seem, by your own account, to be doing fairly well in a capitalistic system which has been devastated by the Roosevelt programs. There is certainly nothing wrong with taking pride in eating the bread earned by one's own labors. You share that trait with your Great Depression ancestors. By no means do I defend the entitlement programs that consume the lion's share of the national government's budget. But I understand and applaud the humanitarian impulse behind their formation, however misguided these programs have become.
As I said in an earlier post, perhaps we need another Great Depression. It would cure us of our arrogrance, and help many of us fully understand the forces that impelled my grandparents generation to elect a man who promised to use the power of the government to end their suffering.
I believe there is much truth in the old adage, "A little suffering is good for the soul."
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true enough but the flood gates for the entitlements programs were essentially opened by the rooseveltian concept of deferring payments for today's benefits for tomorrow's children. the new deal and it's programs created the concept of uncle sugar and the mindset of "close enough for gubmint work". both very damaging to the overall health of our society. mr lyndon baines entitlements johnson very much considered himself to be a rooseveltian democrat and many of his administrators went back to the roosevelt administration. one can clearly see the indeliable prints of mr roosevelt's policies all the way to this current administration.
prior to rooseveltianism americans were pretty much a self sufficient lot. the only thing people bought with borrowed money were homes and even then not everyone did. within a decade or so of new deal programs the average american was lured into the trap of buying stuff on time, so much so that by the time of my birth one could buy a car, a '58 for $58 as was advertised. people were now mortgaging their futures and the concept of immediate gratification enters the american way of life.
mr roosevelt basically borrowed from us to solve his problems way back when. genious? maybe. chicanery? definitely.
what was worse than mortgaging future generations of american taxpayers with gargantuan debt was the elimination of a huge block of future taxpayers by the tacit support of monsters like margaret sanger who's ideas brought to policy by rooseveltians have robbed the nation of some twenty million contributors to the social security system through the barbaric practice of national infanticide on the wholesale level.
I think that if one looks at the roosevelt legacy on the whole and does so with an open mind instead of parroting what granny says or accentuating the good but glossing over the catastrophic one could easily come away with a different opinion, as I have.
the finger of all of america's social ills is pointed directly at mr roosevelt, his policies and the generation of policy makers that followed him and admired him so.