Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Serenity on July 12, 2007, 11:21:29 PM
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Hey,
Ive decided to make my 3rd serious attempt at a skin. Ive been reading for days, and I think im finally able to give it a good effort. Im going to try a 486th BS B-24 Liberator. But I cannot make sense of the skin file! (Its REALLY hard to distinguish between parts of the aircraft). So, I was hoping one of you B-24 skinners might be so kind as to let me borrow a template to at least make heads or tails of this. Its my first skin, so im still experimenting with EVERYTHING. Thank you very much in advance.
CadetRobin@aol.com
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Good luck Serenity.
:)
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Good luck Serenity.
:)
Thanks. Im trying out my own template, but its not working. I hope someone can toss me one at least to find the basic OUTLINE of all the parts...
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Check your PMs Serenity.
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Done. Thanks Larry.
So, any B-24 skinners have a template they can loan me? Im trying myself but im running into nothing but problems.
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sigh
how many times do I need to say it?
if you can't make the rivets and the panel lines how are you going to make a good skin anyways?
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Originally posted by Citabria
sigh
how many times do I need to say it?
if you can't make the rivets and the panel lines how are you going to make a good skin anyways?
Sad but true... =\
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Originally posted by Citabria
sigh
how many times do I need to say it?
if you can't make the rivets and the panel lines how are you going to make a good skin anyways?
I just need a guidline as to what is what part. I know there are a lot of planes (Like the Hurricane) that have different parts of the aircraft sharing pixels. Im making my own rivet and panel lines on my own now, but it would be REALLY nice to have a guidline. Im sorry, but this being my first skin, I kinda need all the help I can get.
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Panel Finder (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/Panel%20Finder.bmp)
Save that and paste it over the skin. Then save it and go ingame to take some screenshots and match them up on the file.
By the way you do have the high res pack downloaded so the skin is 1024x0124 and you didnt have to resize it?
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Originally posted by Serenity
I just need a guidline as to what is what part. I know there are a lot of planes (Like the Hurricane) that have different parts of the aircraft sharing pixels. Im making my own rivet and panel lines on my own now, but it would be REALLY nice to have a guidline. Im sorry, but this being my first skin, I kinda need all the help I can get.
you could take the default skin, rename it, and draw numbers over each piece. Put the skin on a plane in the viewer, and make notes of "which" numbers are where. This would give you a better idea of where things are. After that, when doing your skin, you going to have to spend a bunch of time figuring "where" the edge of each piece is anyway. I don't think many of the skins paint "end" at the end of the piece, there is a bunch of "over spray".
Thats one of the problems of making a skin, is getting everything to line up right. Just experimenting.
Another problem, is it would take almost as much time to explain how to make a skin as it does to make a skin, thats why a lot of these guys don't explain much when you ask questions. The details add up, much like in the skins :) I have read of some people get to 60 layers for a skin, dozens just for paint.... so you don't get that "blobs of color" look. Its not that they are being a pain in the butt about "hiding the secrets of skinning", it just a very time consuming thing to explain it all.
Spend some time learning your art program. Go to the skinners page, DL a plane "panel line" picture, crop out one view, and add layers, and paint it. Experiment with just trying to get a good picture out of that. Once you can get a nice picture out of one of them, you will have learned your way around your program better, learned some technics on painting. Then try a skin. I'm sure you'll find it a bit easier to do a skin.
Good Luck !
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You're going to have to scrutinize the skin all over anyways, to know where different parts line up, so you might as well do it the right way.
Take what you've got, make an outline around a part you're unfamiliar with. Fill it with a bright red. Find another part, fill it bright blue. Find another part, fill it bright green. Keep using bright but distinct color until you've got half a dozen or so. Then load up the skin viewer and check every angle (inside AND out) until you know where they are.
Once you know what goes where you'll remember it better than if somebody just handed you a file. Because if you just fill in a file saying "Oh, that's a turret frame" then never check the turret frame afterwards, well it's like painting blind.
I don't have a b-24 template. Sometimes I'll share fighter templates, but bombers are so complex I really think you've got to map things out yourself so that you know what you're doing. Fighters have far less confusing parts, so it's not as much an issue, IMO.
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Serenity, as a starting guideline, here's what I do.
I first make sure I have profiles of the bird I want to do. Then I do research on the plane in general to understand the different parts on the plane and different types of materials. Then I look for museum pics to see what the rivets and panel lines look like on it. After I've gathered this info, then I'll start making a skin.
I first start out with just making sure I can get the colors as close to being correct as possible. Then I paint the skin 1 color (base color) and I do not just fill the entire file with 1 color, I actually try to only paint in areas that affect the outter skin of the plane, and not things such as engines, props, inner wheel wells and such things like that. Then I make the panel lines. After the panel lines are made I then do the camoflauge and use the panel lines as guidelines to help me get things right. Then I make the rivets. Then I'll do 3d shading, control surfaces. Then I'll do texture for the skin, grime, dirt, paint chips, paint fading and exhaust stains. Then I'll go back and work on the transparencies of the panel lines, rivets and everything else. Then I'll fix color transistions so that they blur better and then even tweak color levels. Then I'll make sure I do engines, wheels, props and letters, codes & noseart. I'm constantly also going back to redo things if they don't look right. Figure 80 hours to make a skin. I use photoshop so whenever I make a change, it only takes me 1/2 a second to see the change in the film viewer. Remember to use AH to see what it will really look like with the better lighting in the game.
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Its eaiser if you use GIMP.
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Originally posted by ForrestS
Its eaiser if you use GIMP.
Iv never used GIMP but I think PhotoShop or PaintShop Pro are better to use.
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I did the coloring thing, lol. Had a BRIGHT yellow, pink, blue, purple and green B-24 and just matched the colors to parts, lol. Starting on my panel lines tomorrow...
Thanks Kermit. Really appreciate it. The toughest part everytime I try this is just getting that coloring right...
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How does this look for a first attempt at coloring? (ALL I care about at this point is the panel lines (too dark? Too light?) and the color)
(http://a493.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_bf334c372329ef4ad9092d817f893214.jpg)
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Originally posted by Serenity
How does this look for a first attempt at coloring? (ALL I care about at this point is the panel lines (too dark? Too light?) and the color)
(http://a493.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_bf334c372329ef4ad9092d817f893214.jpg)
Ehh.. Are you runing 128 tex?
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Nope. 1024. (Or thats what its SET to. Im doing this on my crappy-arsed, no-graphics card computer, so I dont know what quality AH will run in. What do you think so far as to the coloring? Too green?
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Originally posted by Serenity
Nope. 1024. (Or thats what its SET to. Im doing this on my crappy-arsed, no-graphics card computer, so I dont know what quality AH will run in. What do you think so far as to the coloring? Too green?
Color looks ok i guess im more worried about those panel lines they look huge lol.. Give us a closeup please..
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Try to make the panel lines 1 pixel wide.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Try to make the panel lines 1 pixel wide.
Alright. I havnt even TRIED playing with those yet. But if the color looks good, Ill get on into the panel lines.
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Um. Im using the panel lines Kev made from ah-skins.com as a base right now... how do I shrink them to one pixel? Can I do that? Or do I just have to trace over them?
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You may have to just re-trace them.
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Originally posted by Serenity
How does this look for a first attempt at coloring? (ALL I care about at this point is the panel lines (too dark? Too light?) and the color)
(http://a493.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_bf334c372329ef4ad9092d817f893214.jpg)
Looks fine to me.
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I retraced them so it was only 1 pixel thick and wide... its exactly the same.
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It also helps if you have there skin viewer. Ask someone for it, i can't seem to find the link.
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How do the panel lines look now?
(http://a348.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/124/l_471e7a4b1d110187459a46eb501c8a0b.jpg)
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Can't tell. Have to zoom in a bit more, get us a good view.
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It looks to me that you're not running AH at the highest texture rates. When you edit your skin, is it the correct 1024x1024 pixel size? It seems that you don't have the high-res download and therefore the skin is stretching.
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Originally posted by United
It looks to me that you're not running AH at the highest texture rates. When you edit your skin, is it the correct 1024x1024 pixel size? It seems that you don't have the high-res download and therefore the skin is stretching.
I dont know WHAT AH is running on this computer. Its SET to max, but this computer doesnt have a graphics card so... Should I just wait until I get back to my good computer before continuing?
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Well, you need to know what size the bitmap is before you get too far along in skinning. It doesn't matter what resolution AH is running in as long as your are editing the high-res skin. If you're trying to skin the plane on a bitmap that is only say 512x512 then you're unfortunately wasting your time.
From what I can see on your screenshots, you're not running AH at high resolution. This doesn't necessarily matter, but you're not going to be able to see the skin at its best. Do what was suggested earlier and download the AH skin viewer. With it, you can see the plane at the highest resolution without having to run AH. This will help you a TON rather than looking at the skin in your AH resolution.
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Originally posted by Serenity
I dont know WHAT AH is running on this computer. Its SET to max, but this computer doesnt have a graphics card so... Should I just wait until I get back to my good computer before continuing?
I have postponed my skinning work for now for that very reason.
With a poor graphics card, all you can really do is rivets and really, really basic stuff.
All of the complex details (like panel merge points etc) become a blurred, jagged, awful mess on sub par machines.
Wait until you can do it on a computer that will support the Hi - Res texture pack.
A golden piece of advice that was given to me by FTJR is:
Download a second version of AH and install it with the Hi Res Texture pack.... all details set at max. That way, you can check out all of your skin's progress in-game through the second installation of AH without having to re-cache your game every time you switch b/w Online Play AH and Skinning AH.
Saves a bit of time.
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Well, im skinning at 1024, THAT I know. And since its the middle of the summer on a computer that cannot PLAY Aces High, and my girlfriend doesnt come by for another 3 hours... I find this skinning quite fun! Its turning out so well (in my oppinion) this is quite possibly the greatest feeling of accomplishment ive felt in MONTHS! lol. In fact, in about an hour ill post an update.
(I dont get back to my good computer until August 1st)
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Thats great that you're enjoying skinning. I did for quite a while as well. Its good that you are editing the full size bitmap, but unfortunately with a machine that can't run AH you will not be able to really see your skins to their full potential. I suggest keep skinning and learning things in your graphics editor, but wait until you get on a capable machine before you start doing the serious detail work. That way you'll actually be able to see what you're doing. :)
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lol. Well this is just experimenting. On August 1st, ill be back to my good computer, (Where I can run AH at max settings just fine) Ill re-do EVERYTHING to make sure it REALLY looks nice.
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Update
I know I need to work on the underwing and the placement of tha markings, but otherwise how does it look?
(http://a700.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_dcda9ed159a68f72e07d6b94270c35bb.jpg)
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hey serenity what do you download to get to make skins and that looks good just give it the name of a real b 24 like sacktime pallace of dallace that i think would make it more realistic but that does look good i promised my self if i knew how to make skins i'd make one like that oh and heres another idea put american flags on the ruuders and alirons
i wish they would add ans make skin for the plane hitler would have rode in aftar the war
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Hey Serenity, here's another tip:
If you want to post updated pics for others to look at for critiquing, try to make sure that each pic can give us (the viewers) enough detail to analyze your work. If you have to take multiple pics of the same area, try to have it from different angles. If you are looking to post pics that give detail and not just the entire plan.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Hey Serenity, here's another tip:
If you want to post updated pics for others to look at for critiquing, try to make sure that each pic can give us (the viewers) enough detail to analyze your work. If you have to take multiple pics of the same area, try to have it from different angles. If you are looking to post pics that give detail and not just the entire plan.
Yeah, problem is this computer won take screenshots :(
Alt-S just gives me big black pictures, so I have to you prntscrn and exit AH, paste in paint, and so on. This is just a rough thing as to what you guys think. Im still just screwing around with it :D
And 64Kils, this is Libra, a 486th BS bird. Havnt done the nose art yet. Anyone know any good/easy ways to do nose-art? I suck at drawing people, lol. ESPECIALLY on the computer.
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can you draw a plane or a building then name it sacktime but what do you download to be able to skini'm guna see if i can make one for b17 i got perfect idea for naose art on that
and name it putdown
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serenity your in that squad plz put in a good word for me i always wanted to be a bomber piolit in that squad i rock at it
and you can use this if you want serenity for nose art i got lots more pics if you want anymore just ask
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and make it like where it has all those bomb symbols that would be cool
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Originally posted by Serenity
this is Libra, a 486th BS bird. Haven't done the nose art yet. Anyone know any good/easy ways to do nose-art? I suck at drawing people, lol. ESPECIALLY on the computer.
I haven't done AH skins but I'd suggest for the nose art: resize, cut and paste. Find a good picture of the art and use it. Dunno if it'll work that way or not.
wrngway
(message board needs squelch)
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Originally posted by AWwrgwy
I haven't done AH skins but I'd suggest for the nose art: resize, cut and paste. Find a good picture of the art and use it. Dunno if it'll work that way or not.
wrngway
(message board needs squelch)
Yes, it does...
64, I only do REAL planes. Anything custom is putting a pick of Ashlee or her name on the fuselage for my personal enjoyment. That nose-art is not acceptable, and Im not a member of the 486th, as there IS no 486th in Aces High. Im Gruppenkommandeur of II/Kg200 though, but there is a maturaty test I doubt you would pass...
And for the nose art, I found a real WW2 pic of the bird taken by its bombadier in a book I got for free, plus a profile. Ill try that idea, lol.
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well, when I left aces high, I stopped working on this skin. But now that I'm back, and with two brand new computers, I'm going to go into full swing to finish this aircraft. I just have two points I need some help on. Again, nose art. I'll scan the original picture I have of the plane so you can see, its a rather complicated design. Are there any short cuts I can take on mounting that nose art since I know any attempt I make will not do it justice. Secondly, any nlbasic weathering tips? Though my goal is for a fresh-from-the-factory look, I do want to muck her up just a little.
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Originally posted by Serenity
well, when I left aces high, I stopped working on this skin. But now that I'm back, and with two brand new computers, I'm going to go into full swing to finish this aircraft. I just have two points I need some help on. Again, nose art. I'll scan the original picture I have of the plane so you can see, its a rather complicated design. Are there any short cuts I can take on mounting that nose art since I know any attempt I make will not do it justice. Secondly, any nlbasic weathering tips? Though my goal is for a fresh-from-the-factory look, I do want to muck her up just a little.
Best thing on the nose art is to create a layer for it specifically. Import the scanned nose art into your program and basically create a replicated version, by simply drawing over it, matching colors and the image. Do this at a large scale. Then, once you have a good quality image at full scale, scale the nose art down to fit the size it should be on the aircraft. Remember to save it at the original full size, and use a copy of it to scale. If you scale it too big or too small, redo it--don't keep rescaling the same image as it will lose quality as you re-scale it multiple times. Scale once--if that doesn't work, delete and scale it again until it matches.
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^-- that's worked for me several times.
Generally use paths (if you have photoshop) and brushes/pencils/fills with those paths to get the shape you need. Once you've rebuilt the nose art through various layers, hide/delete the original scanned/copied layer underneath.
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The key with anything to do with skins is layers, layers, layers.
I probably have way too many, which tends to mess things up a lot, but I have seperate layers for almost everything... camo, rivets, panel lines, markings, dirt, exhaust stains, paint chips.... everything.
This way you can adjust the opacity or whatever else you need to do for each detail independantly.
One example is having a seperate layer for panel lines... You can load the panel lines (so that just the lines are selected) and (on a new layer) create a layer of dirt in the exact shape of the panel lines... Gaussian blur it out a little and drop the opacity and you have nice, crisp panel lines with a layer of smudged out dirt over the top of them to help give them a little depth.
This saves tracing a layer of dirt over the top and gives you a crisp following of the lines.
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Also, this has been said before here but I didn't see an appropriate response.
Your base image (the defualt skin you're drawing over) must be 1024 x 1024 pixels. If you're working on anything less than this you're wasting your time.
A good idea is to set your canvas to 1500 x 1500 to give you a little room around the edges and go from there.
To get this 1024 x 1024 image you will need to install the hi-res pack.
As I suggested a couple of pages back, if your machine is incapable of running the game at this detail level, install a second version of the game and call it Aces High Skin.
That way you can set the video settings to max (on the start-up clipboard, not in game) and keep them there without having the re-cache the skins... which takes at least a few minutes on a low-power machine.
1024 x 1024 is crucial, you must work at that size.
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Well, I THINK I found the old file. I dont have photoshop, I cannot afford it. Im using Photoplus instead. So, today, I will look at the skin for the first time in hi-res. Also, as far as layers, I think I have around 15 total layers so far, even before weathering. To minimize confusion Xasthur I name each layer exactly what it is. So, its back to work! I wont be sleeping this weekend...
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Originally posted by Serenity
Well, I THINK I found the old file. I dont have photoshop, I cannot afford it. Im using Photoplus instead. So, today, I will look at the skin for the first time in hi-res. Also, as far as layers, I think I have around 15 total layers so far, even before weathering. To minimize confusion Xasthur I name each layer exactly what it is. So, its back to work! I wont be sleeping this weekend...
I use photoshop 7 and have done for about 5 years... I got it from a friend.
It's easy to find a download for it and if you're not using the program for financial gain I don't consider it doing anything wrong, particularly when my version is so out of date
:lol
Another good trick with the layers, as naming them is a must, is colour-coding them. I'm not sure if your program allows you to do that but you can change the colour of the layer tag in the layers menu in PS7. Camo is green, dirt is red, panel lines are blue, rivets are purple etc etc.
Makes it easier to find what you're looking for towards then end when you're in the 'tweaking' stage.
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Id love to find a nice little download, but never can, lol. And no, photoplus doest give me that option. Even worse, I didnt find the old file, so im starting all over :(
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Try GIMP Rey. Its pretty much full-featured and free as well.
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Alright, well, I dug through the trash, (literally), pulled out my old comp., booted it, and got the file back. But, now on this computer, I cannot get the skin to show on the offline. So, can someone either help me out or send me the skin viewer?
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There is a very interesting mottling of the colors on this aircraft as seen here up close:
(http://a863.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/59/l_947ead984066b89138cf4e348f6a4d5e.jpg)
(http://a185.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/108/l_1518384b365440c9b669d4c06782dab8.jpg)
Ignore the colored wheels, I still have to fix that.
(http://a655.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/117/l_f5871ff399da39c6b9d2665750cc9d76.jpg)
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Any ideas how to handle that mottled skin?
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looks good i would fly it. i actualy prefered the first one with the white scratches on the leading and trailing edges.
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That sure does not look like the HiRes pack..
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Bat, thats because I hadnt covered over the original skin, lol. Another problem im having is the flaps. Ive been having trouble identifying where the flaps end and where the other parts of the wing begin... Really, the toughest part of this skin is just identifying which pixel goes where. Ill try to sort out the flaps issue. Other than that, do you all think its ready to submit?