Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Gianlupo on July 13, 2007, 06:31:50 AM
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Hi there!
This month I decided it's time to move to some different plane and I picked up the P-40E and the Bf-109K4. I'll be flying them for most of the tour.
I'd like to have some advice on the strengths and weaknesses of these two planes, especially from pilots who fly them a lot.
Thank you! :)
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well the 109 is just uber. no real special tricks to it, it climbs brilliantly and is bloody fast! it decelerates well too, so it's great for really getting down and dirty if you're brave enough. fun plane to furball in, even if it isn'ta great turner.
p40, use the flaps, combat flaps come out at high speeds (440 mph i think)
it's not a great turner, but it does ok. good fun, both of them :)
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The K is a truely dominant bird...BUT...the ballistics take some getting used to. You really need to fly it looking for a decent snapshot vs truely setting up (IMO). Most of the guys that I see using it well fly it very aggressively (similiar to a spitty) trying to get in close for a good snapsoht....but then extend using its acceleration and climb. Basically if you stayed fast they got the shot...if you dumped enough E to avoid it then they climbed up over you and tried again.....great great E fighter.
P40E is alot of fun....but it has two "vices" to manage. 1st is pretty poor acc/climb. It's a much better "downhill sledder" so its vulnerable to the 2nd wave...you'll have a hard time in the verticals compared to the 109 or 205 etc. The 2nd (again my opinion) is that its a better E fighter then true turner. Even with flaps I dont think it really turns all that well. Combine that with its rude departure tendencies and its a handful. Basically its a great plane fast and a very good plane as an E fighter in the 350-200 range...once you really get slow its tough to fight anything beyond a 1 on 1...
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Originally posted by humble
Even with flaps I dont think it really turns all that well.
Agreed. They're not very good flaps. They are split flaps (like the spitfire) and do not produce as much lift as, say, the f4u or p38 or p51 or 109. Don't use them unless you're landing (and even then you don't need them).
Like he said, fast is good. Only, you don't stay fast for very long. Not long at all. Even the gentlest of moves will cost you some E, and that's the big problem right there. You can't pick up E in this plane. It has terrible climb and acceleration. If you want to survive, come in at 15, dive down, shoot somebody, go down to the deck as you run away back towards your base. Only once you are 100% clear should you climb back to 15k and try again.
Anything else will get you killed. Might take 1 down with you, but what's the point of that?
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The fun of it? Lol :)
Thanks for the inputs, guys, keep them coming... I'd like to hear from as many as I can.
EDIT: I've already experienced the nasty stall characteristics of the P40, but you can get used to it fast enough, it gives you a fair warning. As for the 109K, I'm the kind of guy that fire at pointblank range, the worse ballistic doesn't mean much at that distance... and that 30 is really devastating... right now I'm mostly trying to pick with it, but I'm a turnfighter, so I usually end wasting my E and turning on the deck before dying... it's a nice ride, I think if properly flown can do well even against nimbler fighter (of course not against good pilots ;) ): got to learn to turn it as I saw some people do...
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The 109K-4 has lots of horsepower. If you want to turn fight you can. Once the target is slower, just start using the vertical. All that extra horsepower means you can do a lot when you're low and slow that other planes might not be able to do (yo-yos, barrel rolls, whatever) without stalling out. And if things go sour, level out, hit WEP and just leave them in the dust.
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yup the k4 is aplane that really allows you to be aggressive without worry. it's also a much better plane when you fly aggressively. it technically isn't a great turner, but with some force it actually get round really quick, and using the vert it's deadly. i've killed multiple spit16s in 1 on 1s witha K4, you just need to push. you usually end up getting a lot of snapshots because it reverses well, so practise with the tater gun :)
good luck gian. maybe we can fly a bit more than KOTH together sometime and i can practise with you :)
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K4 is one of the best rides in the game. The 109f is a great early war ride. Both take time and practice but the k4 30mm take even more time and practice. Use the k4 for vert and the 109f for your deck turn fighting. The k4 is my da practice bird, the lack of 30mm keeps it from being my main ride.
P40 well in my book its a pos. Some people like it but with me it doesn't fit my flying. Midwar and AvA its a fun ride but in main its a target. You really need to have the advantage to stay alive...
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Try to keep some alt with the P40, you can use gravity to supplement some of your power deficit. It doesn't do to poorly in the vertical if you try to keep some speed up. Again, you can use alt to convert if you have some. It's not that bad of a turn fighter as the flaps are usefull. But the E bleed will kill you if you don't take care of business quickly. I've had some success with it. Your prolly not going to make it home out of a furball with it, or at least I never do as I don't know when to leave and everyone seems to want to shoot at the P40 so you get picked a lot. I have noticed that after spending a lot of time in one the other birds are a bit easier to handle. A F4U-1A was a dancing ballerina after flying the P40 a lot. It's odd but it seems that the newer faster rides just seem to "make more sense" after the P40. Don't know if that helps but thats my experience with it. There are guys that make a P40 a wicked adversary. Maybe a few more of them will chime in. Perks are nice too when you can land kills. I got almost 19 points for just two Niki's and a spit.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
well the 109 is just uber. no real special tricks to it, it climbs brilliantly and is bloody fast! it decelerates well too, so it's great for really getting down and dirty if you're brave enough. fun plane to furball in, even if it isn'ta great turner.
p40, use the flaps, combat flaps come out at high speeds (440 mph i think)
it's not a great turner, but it does ok. good fun, both of them :)
:lol I'd spank most planes in k4 in tnb including spits.. In an f4 i can throw down with hurri 2's and zero's aswell. :D
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The K4 is a monster! Like most have already mentioned its at its best when you fly it very aggressively using e-fighting techniques. You can afford to turn hard and scrub off speed as it will accelerate you like a bullet out of gun back to safe speeds. Flying it timid all like is a waste of time. Timid means you are allowing your opponent time to rebuild E and you will be essentially BnZing. K4 is not at its best BnZing due to the tater gun being hard to use. Keep the enemy slow and accerating slower than you and you will build a net E advantage which you can use to convert into a kill by using the vert. Its THE e-fighter par-excellence.
Make sure you get into the habit of working that throttle like mad. Dont be afraid to wind it back to zero frequently to keep you in the sweet-spot speed range. Too fast and you will suffer from a very unresponsive elevator. Keep all that power well under control and you wont have to fight the aircraft to get it going where you want it. Going over the top of loops it pays to chop throttle and pop a notch of flaps which really helps get the nose back down and that tater gun pointing at the baddy. Keep throttle well under control in the downward portion of loops etc or dives. Excessive speed is your worst enemy in the K4 and the engine will give you that speed very quickly whether you want it or not.
Keep the elevator trim in a handy position to save your lawn-dartin arnold if you get out of control too :)
The K4 will turn very well when you keep it in its range and will keep up with anything if you are careful controlling its speed.
Another bonus is its small - means hard to hit too ;)
If it goes pear-shaped, then you can escape from nearly every aircraft in the set if you have WEP left and are not on the deck - WEP all but never runs out too :)
As others have mentioned, killing with the tatergun is art form all to itself. One which will take time to get used to, let alone master. Try firing only the tatergun. Forget the MGs, the only confuse you as their ROF and tradjectory is too different. If your hitting with MGs, you're missing with the taters. Fire only taters and only in 1/2 second bursts - eg for one audible 'thump'. You only got 60 odd taters, so use them sparingly, and use em when the bogey fills up your windscreen and you can't miss :D One hit is all thats needed 90% of the time. If you see a tater hit, its all over. no confusion!
As for the P40, treat is a fun thing to do every once and a while. It is outclassed in the LW MA's. Fun it is, a competitive bird against LW monsters, it aint. Theres something really insulting about being shot down by a P40 :D
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"Theres something really insulting about being shot down by a P40"
On the other hand, it's great to get kills with. "HA HA, killed by a P40, nanny nanny boo boo."
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Originally posted by Avaro
:lol I'd spank most planes in k4 in tnb including spits.. In an f4 i can throw down with hurri 2's and zero's aswell. :D
I do the same in a P-38-G.
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I hate the vis issues in the 109s. Otherwise I'd fly them a lot more.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I hate the vis issues in the 109s. Otherwise I'd fly them a lot more.
I acutally don't notice it intill i goto h2h arenas lol.. :D
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I hate the vis issues in the 109s. Otherwise I'd fly them a lot more.
I do, too. I especially hate the horizontal frame just above the reflector sight in the K4, it prevents me from setting up the shots when I saddle on someone's six... it's as annoying as the glass in front of the P-38G gunsight!
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JUst be careful when stall fighting with the torque...it can really kick ur arse...
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i only started flying the k4 when i got to know agent now he doesnt whoop me its just a mild spanking , but yes the oppisite torque is tricky at low speed
p40 is great e fighter i take it to furball any day its just like me mustang just more sluggish so i can kinda handle it filth and duke are your guys for p40 advice. but ya its got enough ammo too.
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I'd like to have some advice on fighting Spits with the K4. I have a .ahf that I'd like to post for you to comment on the fight, but unfortunately Picture Hangar is still down and I can't upload the file. It's a fight against a SpitIX, the pilot is a guy that I shot down some minutes before (me in K4, he in D Hog) I don't think the human factor had much impact on the outcome, it's just the planes and, I think the way I flew mine.
I'll post the clip as soon as I can.
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Hey Gian! Good move!
Its alot of fun,the Pee-Fawty that is. Id like to go fly it with ya sometime. I cant always think of how to explain things until Im doing them though. As far as fighting the Spits, especially the 9, you just have to practice avoiding his attacks. Over and over until he gets slow, or stupid. Hopefully both.
Nurse every bit of E you can get out of it. Nose down every time you evade an attack and then extend away from him the instant he passes, so you can buy tme to build up more speed in between attacks.
They usually get tired of this and prees their luck by turning back quickly on you again, but if you are ready..you always have to be ready :) you can reverse and suprise him with the little E you've saved and then hes done.
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I've been flying the K4 for a week myself and am slowly getting more confident and aggressive, but I can't handle the spits like everyone is talking about. I slow them down turning with them and then go vert. when I nose back down they are there shooting me in the face nose up. They climb darn near as well VIII"s, XVI's, and XIV's, im talking about and turn better, have comparable acceleration, and of course they can reach out and touch you with the hispanos, if I don't break contact soon enough. Of course Im not good enough yet with the spud to sell my angles for a shot because I end up dead. Ene con high angle shot traveling 200 mph or greater will almost always fly through my slow "spud spray" untouched. All this talk of kickin XVI's azzes with the K4 has me excited about the possibilities, but i'am not convinced yet. I fly with combat trim off and make constant adjustments, and I'am doing much better. I will take the advice of one of the posters and only fire the spud instead of the full battery because it has been very confusing trying to find your shooting eye, otherwise I just get a bunch of assists! Pony's and the big blue planes etc are fun to tangle with but the big engined spits are giving me problems. So yeah, I could use some advice just like Gian is asking for ie films etc from you more experienced drivers out there. I know I'll get better shooting etc with time but anything that can be added to hasten the learning curve would be much appreciated Thanx.
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Brentlo, check your PM.
Fighting in the K4 is not easy, especially against Spitfires and the like, and because of that cannon's ballistic. But I can tell you you'll get used to it, do as they said, fire only the cannon and fire at pointblank range, you won't miss... another thing, try snapshots if you want, but don't rely on them and always try to saddle up on the enemy's rear quarter. If you tap gently the trigger, you can fire one potato at time, and it's more than sufficient to tear apart a fighter.... very beautiful effect, you'll see! :)
As for flying it, I spent an hour in TA with Dutchie, it was really useful, he gave me a lot of advices... I still have to master it, but the K4 can be surprising, especially for Spit pilots that thinks "easy target"! As I said, check your PM. ;)
Filth, I'd like to do the same with you for the P40E, can we arrange a meeting in TA? Thank you. :)
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i recommend finding a bish mossie and waiting for him to enter a spin and auger. Repeat until low on fuel;)
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Thanks for the words of encouragement Gian, I will keep plugging away.
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when in doubt, keep the nose high in the k4.
Its always fun to throw it into a vertical scissors. you can usaully get two turns in, not many planes can match that, and you come down right on their 6. Like platano was saying, watch the torque, it will throw you.
Im by no means an expert, just some things that have worked for me. Got these from creton a while back.
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Originally posted by thrila
i recommend finding a bish mossie and waiting for him to enter a spin and auger. Repeat until low on fuel;)
:lol But, first of all, make sure Thrila is in control of it!
it was fun fighting with you, last evening. :)
Brentlo, you're welcome. Have you checked your Private Messages box? I sent you one this morning... click on the User CP buttom, in the upper left corner of this page, and search for PM... ;)