Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: crockett on July 15, 2007, 06:25:50 PM
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I don't do drugs nor have I ever tried them, but I find this just slightly amusing and scary at the same time. You pot heads will soon be spending some time at the US's top vacation spot in sunny Cuba.
The nation's top anti-drug official said people need to overcome their "reefer blindness" and see that illicit marijuana gardens are a terrorist threat to the public's health and safety, as well as to the environment.
John P. Walters, President Bush's drug czar, said the people who plant and tend the gardens are terrorists who wouldn't hesitate to help other terrorists get into the country with the aim of causing mass casualties. Walters made the comments at a Thursday press conference that provided an update on the "Operation Alesia" marijuana-eradication effort.
"Don't buy drugs. They fund violence and terror," he said.
After touring gardens raided this week in Shasta County, Walters said the officers who are destroying the gardens are performing hard, dangerous work in rough terrain.
"These people are armed; they're dangerous," he said. He called them "violent criminal terrorists."
Walters, whose official title is director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, said too many people write off marijuana as harmless. "We have kind of a reefer blindness,' " he said.
"This business we intend to put into recession, depression and put its leaders into jail," Walters said.
http://www.redding.com/news/2007/jul/13/drug-czar-gives-warning/
Terrorist are bad Mumm k?
(http://www.esse.ou.edu/~cwaller/204_mkaymackey.JPG)
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so people who use and or grow medical marajuana for aids cancer .... are terrorists?
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(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8814/weedwp7.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
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opps sorry I meant to post this in the O Club..
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Originally posted by evenhaim
so people who use and or grow medical marajuana for aids cancer .... are terrorists?
They are just embedding the enemy..Remember, you are either with us or against us.
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Sounds like alot of scare tactics to me, I haven't smoked pot in years but have always believed it should be legalized, Alcohol is way worst then pot yet it's legal.:confused:
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ROFL.. what BS! I've had a small grow in the past, and I know several people with pretty decent grow-ops going... all far from terrorists, rofl. More like burnouts whose pot smoking spiraled into a business lol :lol Crap like that is why I'm glad I'm Canadian. Marijuana is "illegal"... but not really. Does far less harm than alcohol. I still maintain that the US influence is the only reason weed isn't legal and taxed heavily in Canada. Would be a great source of tax revenue... we're #1 or #2 in pot smoking among industrialized nations :aok
"These people are armed; they're dangerous," he said. He called them "violent criminal terrorists."
Oh wow. I've handled pretty significant amounts of chronic (think kilos), and have never touched a gun outside of hunting trips and a couple trips to the range (preparing for said hunting). Am I armed and dangerous? Are the burnout-hippie growers I know, who are definitely anti-firearm (well.. this IS Canada, afterall), armed and dangerous as well? **** your politicians are useless. Even worse than ours.
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i think bush secretly wants to smoke all the worlds pot so he steals it from the terrorists:rofl
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Funny how this administration doesnt see Oil Execs (such as themselves) as a terrorist threat.
Even though they do more damage keeping oil (namely gas and diesel) artificially high, basicly killing small business and giant chunks of the rest of our economy.
I think the grey matter left between Bush's ears is nothing more than ashes from the pot he himself used to smoke back in his day.
Until a test is done to confirm he actually has a brain, I think its safer for all of us to assume he doesnt.
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lol i think they've shot themselves in the foot with that. i can't think of any better an opportunty for US based smokers to demand the right to grow their own. it will be in support of the war on 'terror' :rofl :rofl :rofl
point proven, politicians are dumb controlling retards
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Originally posted by USRanger
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8814/weedwp7.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
funny animation:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Fact: Not one person has ever overdosed on pot
Fact: Thousands of people die every year from alcohol poisoning
Now you tell me which one should be legal.
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Yes pot heads are dangerous -
Dangerous to all snack foods within reach....:rofl
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Again its not about whats healthier or less dangerous.
Its all about money.
Booze company owners have a strong lobby of rich folks that help keep it legal.
MJ has old hippies and thats about it.
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Originally posted by stockli
MJ has old hippies and thats about it.
Theres NORML
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Originally posted by evenhaim
so people who use and or grow medical marajuana for aids cancer .... are terrorists?
maybe you and all the idiots here live under rocks but mind altering substances(illegal drugs) harm you whether you like that it harms you or not!
Our nation has made these substances illegal to protect us, not to be mean or so Bush can have it all to himself.
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Originally posted by crockett
opps sorry I meant to post this in the O Club..
You stoned? :p
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Originally posted by stockli
Again its not about whats healthier or less dangerous.
Its all about money.
Booze company owners have a strong lobby of rich folks that help keep it legal.
MJ has old hippies and thats about it.
The US government makes more money bustin people for pot, which leads to Probation and countless other costs.
Support your local Growers.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
The US government makes more money bustin people for pot, which leads to Probation and countless other costs.
Actually not true, when your on probation you usually only pay about $30 a month for it, and the goverment is probably spending more then that to pay the people who work in the probation department. Also if they have to jail you for it it cost them even more, a year in jail cost the state between $20,000-$30,000 a person. Plus the cost of man time from the police to investigate and arresst people.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
maybe you and all the idiots here live under rocks but mind altering substances(illegal drugs) harm you whether you like that it harms you or not!
Our nation has made these substances illegal to protect us, not to be mean or so Bush can have it all to himself.
I really believe after reading your post, that you may be one of those under a rock. Where did you get the information that pot is harmful? Do you consider pot to be a mind altering drug? Who do you think lobbied our government to make pot illegal? Why do you think those lobbyist wanted it illegal? Maybe before you make a "blind obediance" statement like the one above, you should do your own research!:aok If there is one thing that history and our own founding fathers taught us, do not have blind obediance to any government, it is very unhealthy. I have always believed that pot should be legal and regulated.
As for the original post, seems more of the same from the current administration. Keep 'em scared, and they will practically give you every right they have!
Mark
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Again, our nations laws are designed to protect not bring wealth to the politicians. Some of you people really need to learn how to think and learn about our nation!
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I really believe after reading your post, that you may be one of those under a rock. Where did you get the information that pot is harmful? Do you consider pot to be a mind altering drug? Who do you think lobbied our government to make pot illegal? Why do you think those lobbyist wanted it illegal? Maybe before you make a "blind obediance" statement like the one above, you should do your own research!:aok If there is one thing that history and our own founding fathers taught us, do not have blind obediance to any government, it is very unhealthy. I have always believed that pot should be legal and regulated.
As for the original post, seems more of the same from the current administration. Keep 'em scared, and they will practically give you every right they have!
Mark
Id rather be blindly obedient to my nation than ruin my life by using any illegal sub-stance.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Again, our nations laws are designed to protect not bring wealth to the politicians.
Wow! Hey, I have some beachfront land in Arizona that I am letting go at an unbelievable cost, you interested?:aok
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Id rather be blindly obedient to my nation than ruin my life by using any illegal sub-stance.
Bush smoked pot and snorted cocaine, he ran for president and was voted in by the supreme court. Don't think it ruined his life!
Listen Panzerr, you are probably a great citizen, and I applaud you for believing in something so naively(it is charming), but grow some balls man. Start thinking for yourself a little. Our nations constitution is set up so that we can question our government and decide for ourselves(through voting) what is right for "our" nation! Do you know how many completely ignorant and worhtless laws are passed each year just so some rich guy can make more money? Hell, if you have enough money, you can basically buy certain legislation.......it's called lobbying. You can't be that clueless about how governments work, can you?
Mark
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Got another one for ya Ghi:
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4274/catrollingjointci3zf8.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
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Booze, Legal, Regulated, Taxed
Tobacco, Legal, Regulated, Taxed
Gambling, Legal, Regulated, Taxed
Prostitution, Legal, Regulated, Taxed
See where I'm going with this?
In the areas of the US that these things are legal, they make money for the treasury. Lot's of money.
Want to reverse the flow of cash from the terrorists to the treasury?
Legalize it, Regulate it and Tax the heck out of it.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Again, our nations laws are designed to protect not bring wealth to the politicians. Some of you people really need to learn how to think and learn about our nation!
are you wearing horse blinders? america is corrupt as are all nations and it will always be corrupt, dont bag those who arent watching after school specials or those who are realists
A: pot is not harmful unless you drive while stoned
B: alchol leads to alcholism liver disease cancer death etc...
pot isnt even addictive its not a "mind controlling substance"
its a substance used to relioeve stress from disease gulacoma cancer aids etc... btw pot isnt illegal in al of us when i recently visited in ca there is a city there called north hollywood and it is legal to posses any amont of marajuana under 1 ounce.
ever heard of a cannibis club?
etc... hell some presidents even smoked and weed
and if not for weed america would not be what it is today lol
and yes i know i hang out with the wrong poeple :rofl
btw its almost 5 am here so please excuse my spelling
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panzer reminds me of Hank Hill :lol
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I never said our politicians are designed to protect us, our laws are, at least the sets made before the 1900s. I never said Bush is a great and noble guy who never smoked or got drunk. Our laws are what were made to protect us not politicians, the founding fathers are passed away along with what America was originally formed as, now you can duck and dive out of the way of punishment. It makes me angry that you people can act so foolish!
I am sure the drugs that are illegal are illegal to protect us from harm, they alter our minds and have negative consequences.
You people will learn some how the consequences of the illegal drugs, not exactly jail but death. Marijuana is more harmful than smoking a cigarette, i wouldn't do either but that is why marijuana is illegal and tobacco is not.
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Originally posted by stockli
Again its not about whats healthier or less dangerous.
Its all about money.
Booze company owners have a strong lobby of rich folks that help keep it legal.
MJ has old hippies and thats about it.
There was a really good program on PBS not long ago on the criminalization of cannibas in the United States and the forces that drove for it to be criminalized.
The forces that drove for the criminalization of cannibas in the early part of the 20th Century was Hearst and DuPont. Hearst owned huge tracts of timberland in the Pacific Northwest and DuPont had just come up with Nylon. Why is this important and how did it lead to the crimalization of cannibas? How did this result in the name marijauna?
William Randolph Hearst was a newpaper mogul, he needed paper, lots of it. He also wanted to make lots of money from it but how? Around this time, the process of making paper from wood pulp was being ironed out. Remember, Hearst had millions upon millions of acres of timberland with all those trees...
At the time, Hemp was the major component of paper, as it didn't need the highly complicated chemical process that wood pulp needs to be turned into paper.
So we have Protagonist #1, now lets get ready for Protagonist #2...here comes DuPont.
DuPont had just come up with Nylon, which could be used in various things, such as rope but still couldn't find a very large commercial use for it at the time. But they were convinced that it would make great rope and it would be a great way for it's mass introduction into the consumer market. They had one stumbling block...Hemp. Virtually all rope at the time was made with Hemp.
Now, we bring in the last Protagonist. US Congress. Hearst and the DuPont company got together with a US Congressman (I forget the man's name) and used him to lead the drive for criminalization of cannibas. First, they tried the medical argument but the medical associations argued that cannibas did have medicinal value so the Evil Three changed tactics and started use sensationalism and fear in their quest to criminalize cannibas.
How did they do it? They used an easy scapegoat, the illegal alien. The Congressman started to tell tales of illegal aliens smuggling "Marijuana" (a completely contrived name that was used because it sounded "Mexican") and raping and robbing US citizens in stoned induced rages. Once the Evil Three started to see this tactic succeed, they followed up with more sensational tales of the evils that cannibas can do (none though were based on scientific fact or any facts at all). Then came movies like Reefer Madness, and then a turn in public opinion and greater calls from the public to wipe out the scourge of cannibas.
All the while, the US Congressman, William Randolph Hearst, and DuPont got rich. Hearst now had the market for his wood pulp paper, DuPont had a market for their nylon rope and the Congressman got re-elected and his 15 minutes of fame.
ack-ack
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is Hank Hill the dad on King of the Hill?
i haven't watched that show for quite some time
(http://www.fox.com/kingofthehill/images/h_epi402.gif)
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Whats the score on the redwings game?
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
I never said our politicians are designed to protect us, our laws are, at least the sets made before the 1900s. I never said Bush is a great and noble guy who never smoked or got drunk. Our laws are what were made to protect us not politicians, the founding fathers are passed away along with what America was originally formed as, now you can duck and dive out of the way of punishment. It makes me angry that you people can act so foolish!
I am sure the drugs that are illegal are illegal to protect us from harm, they alter our minds and have negative consequences.
You people will learn some how the consequences of the illegal drugs, not exactly jail but death. Marijuana is more harmful than smoking a cigarette, i wouldn't do either but that is why marijuana is illegal and tobacco is not.
hahahahaha:rofl :rofl :rofl o how you are wrong
yes both kill brain cells but just because ciggarates are a bigger international buisnus doesnt meen there better or healthier weed doesnt even have nicoteen or any extremly harmful anything
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28-3 why?
jk, no idea
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Id rather be blindly obedient to my nation than ruin my life by using any illegal sub-stance.
Some guys in Europe thought that way back in the '40s, look where that got them.
ack-ack
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The most obvious confounding factor in cannabis research is the prevalent usage of other recreational drugs, including alcohol and tobacco.[63] Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck. [64] Such complications demonstrate the need for studies on cannabis that have stronger controls, and investigations into the symptoms of cannabis use that may also be caused by tobacco. Most cannabis research within the USA is funded by government agencies who in turn publish position papers citing research studies that spotlight the negative consequences of cannabis use.[65][66] In light of this, some people question whether these agencies make an honest effort to present an accurate, unbiased summary of the evidence, or whether they "cherry-pick" their data, and others caution that the raw data, and not the final conclusions, are what should be examined.
Anyone know what carcinoma is?
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Cancer
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Please cite a CDC report showing how many new cancer cases a year as a result of cannibas use. Please also cite a CDC report showing how many cancer deaths from cannibas use in the United States.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Id rather be blindly obedient to my nation than ruin my life by using any illegal sub-stance.
Eeek, you scare me.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Please cite a CDC report showing how many new cancer cases a year as a result of cannibas use. Please also cite a CDC report showing how many cancer deaths from cannibas use in the United States.
ack-ack
pats ack ack on the back:aok
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Panzer, EVERYTHING causes cancer. The stuff that makes shampoo bubbly? Yeah, carcinogen. Ditto for toothpaste. Metal tooth fillings? Yeah, they cause cancer too. Justifying something being illegal with a *slight* increase in cancer risk (an undocumented, unproven one at that) is nonsense.
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LOL
How can any American even think blind obedience is anything but horrible?
Good god.
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ever noticed how 99% of all anti-dope guys have never tried pot?
i wonder if these guys would never ever drink a nice cool beer on a hot summers day ever again, if it was deemed to unhealthy and was made illegal tomorrow?
would you not touch the stuff because it was illegal? alcohol changes minds and is far more unhealthy than cannabis. booze makes you angry, out of control, you know, and the more you drink the worse it gets. with weed, you have a spliff and you feel talkative, laugh a lot of course, and are more trusting in yourself. you think more clearly, and you don't rush things.
for those that know what happens after several joints, especially with stronger skunk, you slow way down. the more you have the slower you get, and you get minor paranoia. you don't want to touch a joint again for several hours. it's because of this that it's not as dangerous as booze. you realise that you're going past it and you make a concious decision to stop. hence why there have never been any direct deaths from weed, it isn't linked to violence (unless the taker is predisposed towards mental illness), and it has innumerable health benefits.
compare that to alcohol, totally the opposite. so next time you anti-dope weenies are having that nice cold beer on a hot summer afternoon, wonder what it'd be like relaxing in the evening to nice joint. if you've never tried it, i reckon you'll like it, most people do :D
sure, it does have health issues, smoking anything is bad for you, but is america not a free country? (oh no, sorry, it's supposed to be, but it's a country run by greedy men in search of more money and power). people seem to be quite happy filling their lungs with cruddy tobacco which doesn't give you anything but a nasty voice, bad breath and a black lungs.
shame you guys haven't learned much from the british empire. we were bad, but atleast we didn't enslave our own citizens...
fight the system and free your mind :aok
if you're gonna ***** about it, atleast know what you're *****ing about. get in touch with a trusted dealer, and try a spliff one night instead of a beer. still don't like it, then ***** on. who is it with the iphone quote in their sig?
having some know-it-all with zero experience ***** about weed is just like having a nun go on about how boring sex is...
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Panzer, what causes more cases of cancer you think
Pot smoking or cigarette smoking?
Keep thinking the US Govt cares about you, ponder this as you stand in line for you govt flu shot.
Panzer do some research on high fructose corn syrup and aspartame.
Both legal in the US
Both more dangerous than just about anything you could put into your body.
Both cause diabetes and obesity.
Tell me then exactly how they are looking out for your health.
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If you can't bring people to the O'club, bring the O'club to the people, eh Crockett??? :rofl
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While it is true that certain terroist faction do manufactor drugs,to make such blanket statements are just an attempt to inflict fear in the populace.
I have a Rx for medical weed,and my Dr. did mention that he would never recommend smoking anything,He did prescribe 5 grams per day.
I only hope that you are never in need of Medical weed,ussually means your very sick.
WetRat,ya hit the nail on the head,if the US didn't presure our Gov so much,it would have been decriminalized long ago.
BTW a Canadian court just stated that it's unconstitional the way the laws are now,this was on the news on Friday.
:aok
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Originally posted by trax1
Sounds like alot of scare tactics to me, I haven't smoked pot in years but have always believed it should be legalized, Alcohol is way worst then pot yet it's legal.:confused:
Yup, totally agree. I have family that are alcoholics, it's seriously a disease... you ever seen a marijuanaholic??? Didn't Think so... IMO
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Prostitution, Legal, Regulated, Taxed
:huh
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Panzer can't actually believe what he's saying. Trying to say they made it illegal to protect us is funny, if that was the case tabacco and alcohol wouldn't be legal, the 2 of those kill more people in this country then just about anything else. Pot was first made illegal because it was a drug mostly used by mexican's and it was a way to arresst them.
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Originally posted by Gryphons
:huh
Prostitution is legal in some parts of this country like parts of Nevada.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
If you can't bring people to the O'club, bring the O'club to the people, eh Crockett??? :rofl
Rats, my secret plan is discovered.. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Trax1
Prostitution is legal in some parts of this country like parts of Nevada.
Ah ok, figured if it was legal somewhere in the states that's where it would be.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
Id rather be blindly obedient to my nation than ruin my life by using any illegal sub-stance.
Not trying to stir it up too much but does anyone see a slightly disturbing connection to the poster's handle and the statement? (mostly the part about obedience)
I should prob. finish reading the thread but I had to get that outta my head.
Btw. wasn't the original statement quoted actually lines from "Reefer Madness"?
If not, it's sure close in tone and tenor.
Oh and the concept of blind obedience to any nation or administration's agenda for that matter is patently un-American. Interesting paradox huh?
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Originally posted by crockett
I don't do drugs nor have I ever tried them, but I find this just slightly amusing and scary at the same time. You pot heads will soon be spending some time at the US's top vacation spot in sunny Cuba.
The nation's top anti-drug official said people need to overcome their "reefer blindness" and see that illicit marijuana gardens are a terrorist threat to the public's health and safety, as well as to the environment.
John P. Walters, President Bush's drug czar, said the people who plant and tend the gardens are terrorists who wouldn't hesitate to help other terrorists get into the country with the aim of causing mass casualties. Walters made the comments at a Thursday press conference that provided an update on the "Operation Alesia" marijuana-eradication effort.
"Don't buy drugs. They fund violence and terror," he said.
After touring gardens raided this week in Shasta County, Walters said the officers who are destroying the gardens are performing hard, dangerous work in rough terrain.
"These people are armed; they're dangerous," he said. He called them "violent criminal terrorists."
Walters, whose official title is director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, said too many people write off marijuana as harmless. "We have kind of a reefer blindness,' " he said.
"This business we intend to put into recession, depression and put its leaders into jail," Walters said.
http://www.redding.com/news/2007/jul/13/drug-czar-gives-warning/
Terrorist are bad Mumm k?
(http://www.esse.ou.edu/~cwaller/204_mkaymackey.JPG)
you hafta remember......you're talking about a guy that aspires to be another adolf hitler.........so.......anyth ing he and his cohorts can do to create fear in the public, they will......besides.they need to justify their war somehow, don't they?
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Originally posted by stockli
Funny how this administration doesnt see Oil Execs (such as themselves) as a terrorist threat.
1) good point......wonder if THEY sell any to terrorists? or buy it from them?
Even though they do more damage keeping oil (namely gas and diesel) artificially high, basicly killing small business and giant chunks of the rest of our economy.
I think the grey matter left between Bush's ears is nothing more than ashes from the pot he himself used to smoke back in his day.
2)nah...its muk from the bottom of lake heron
Until a test is done to confirm he actually has a brain, I think its safer for all of us to assume he doesnt.
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Originally posted by trax1
Fact: Not one person has ever overdosed on pot
Fact: Thousands of people die every year from alcohol poisoning
Now you tell me which one should be legal.
Uhhh......well........ummmmm. .............Can you give me a hint. I can`t remember. I spent a lot of time in the 70s.......................... ........I think.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Uhhh......well........ummmmm..............Can you give me a hint. I can`t remember. I spent a lot of time in the 70s.......................... ........I think.
:aok
Thought I'd point out that after a month or two not smoking, your short term memory goes back to normal :cool: The last few years of my teens are pretty fuzzy tho... lol
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
1.) are designed to protect us, our laws are, at least the sets made before the 1900s.
2.)I am sure the drugs that are illegal are illegal to protect us
3.)Marijuana is more harmful than smoking a cigarette,
1.) Have you read some of the laws passed before the 1900's? LMAOROFL!!!!!!!!!!
2.) Wrong, there are more legalized drugs being abused in the US than illegal. More deaths from legalized drugs than illegal. Take for instance, a valium, if taken like the doctor prescribed, a pot type of relaxation buzz occurs in the patient. Yet, if you take too much valium, you die! No fatal overdose of pot has ever been medically documented. More people die each year from lightning strikes than pot........because noone has ever died from overdosing on pot. You are completely uninformed about what you are talking about.
3.) Again, I would like to see the scientific studies on the how normal usage of pot is more harmful than the normal usage of ciggarettes.
I might add, that being in and around the drug culture for years playing in bars and the likes, I have found that it's not the drugs that normally kill the person, it's the person themselves. A lack of control, an obsessive addictive personality, and other mental problems usually accompany victims of drug deaths! Many people who have used and still use pot as a recreational or medical additive to their lives, know how to manage themselves in a safe and healthy manner. Many are very benificial to their communities and are very professional and successful with their careers. I believe that some are suceptable to unhealthy lifestyles whether it be legal(ciggarettes and alcohol) or illegal(cocaine, heroin, hydrocodene.....notice I didnt include pot). If a moron, thinks that doing more and more and more is going to help him feel better, then he might want to find out why he is feeling so miserable in the first place....ie see a mental health physician!
I for one, do not need a corrupt politician in Washington to tell me how to manage my lifestyle, I am fully capable of doing that myself!
Mark
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Originally posted by trax1
Panzer can't actually believe what he's saying. Trying to say they made it illegal to protect us is funny, if that was the case tabacco and alcohol wouldn't be legal, the 2 of those kill more people in this country then just about anything else. Pot was first made illegal because it was a drug mostly used by mexican's and it was a way to arresst them.
Yup, the mexicans in and around LA were seen as a "problem" because of the incredible influx of "whites". I believe it was the Mayor of LA at the time that contacted Hearst about joining with him to lobby for the illegalization. This along with what AKAK said is the are reasons that pot was made illegal. Simply put, a few super-rich folks wanted more money!!!
Mark
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yep
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Originally posted by SkyRock
1.) Have you read some of the laws passed before the 1900's? LMAOROFL!!!!!!!!!!
Have you read some of the laws passed in the past 20 years?
It's sad when a parent can be prosecuted for spanking their child. AND go to prison for it. I'm not talking about abuse here, I'm talking about discipline.
It's sad when a company has to put warnings on their packages because the laws allow stupid people to sue them...
"WARNING: This product contains wheat or wheat flour." <--actually read this on a cereal package the other day.
Don't use that hair drying in the shower...it may electrocute you.
HOW STUPID HAS AMERICA BECOME?!?
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The first indication this post was retarded, is "the presidential drug czar says"........LMAO! The president also said alot of stuff that was not then, or is not now, the truth. Dontcha think this country has had enough of the lien whitehouse.? I have. long ago.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Simply put, a few super-rich folks wanted more money!!!
Mark
Funny how many of our problems can be trased back to this trend.
Pipz
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
ever noticed how 99% of all anti-dope guys have never tried pot?
Ever noticed 100% of those that are for legalizing pot are those that have smoked it?
Not addicting at all though....
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Drilling for oil in Alaskan wilderness: Good for America, environmentally sound.
Growing Marijuana: Threat to the environment.
Anyone who says otherwise is a terrorist loving scumbag. Anyone who endangers the environment and Amurrikah by buying pot will be jailed. And don't get your hopes up for a Fair & Balanced Pardon, neither.
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Originally posted by pipz
Funny how many of our problems can be trased back to this trend.
Pipz
Generally, it's why most wars are started! I don't like getting into why IRAQ was started, we still have folks in harms way over there, but funny how wars always make super-rich people more rich, and poor people dead!
Machiavelli laid it out in his writings:
"...the governments of the people are better than those of princes." Book I, Chapter LVIII Prince being a dictator or single ruler and later accepted as "government" as a sole authority, even in a shared power form of government like our own(being that unjust laws can also be invoked without a popular vote).
"...if we compare the faults of a people with those of princes, as well as their respective good qualities, we shall find the people vastly superior in all that is good and glorious." Book I, Chapter LVIII
"For government consists mainly in so keeping your subjects that they shall be neither able nor disposed to injure you...." Book II, Chapter XXIII
"Doubtless these means [of attaining power] are cruel and destructive of all civilized life, and neither Christian nor even human, and should be avoided by every one. In fact, the life of a private citizen would be preferable to that of a king at the expense of the ruin of so many human beings." Book I, Chapter XXVI
It is Niccolo Machiavelli's writings that have influenced all governments since, and his writings were a result of his first hand experiences of how the powers that be, stayed in power. I refer to how his writings are now viewed:
The pejorative term Machiavellian, as it is used today, describes one who deceives and manipulates others for gain; whether the gain is personal or not is of no relevance, only that any actions taken are only important insofar as they affect the results.
Governments around the world still use the same fundamental strategies to control or manipulate the people they are governing. It is abundant throughout the history of civilization. One way is to instill mass fear in the peoples, claim you are here to protect them from that fear, and then basically take anything you want from them and they will be glad to give it to you! We can relate this to the taking of our right to the pursuit of happiness. If one finds happiness in their own home, by smoking a joint or eating pot brownies, it is then their own right, and should never, ever be tampered with by government.
I will relate it to the consumption of alcohol. Alcohol is legal, and many people know when and how to use alcohol to obtain happiness. In the same reguards, there are many who abuse alcohol, and in turn, cause damage to themselves and others. Yet alcohol is legal on the basis that most people are smart enough to know when and how to obtain happiness using alcohol without endangering themselves and others. On the other hand, tetrahydrocannibinol used in moderation, has no scientific or medically documented negative health effects on the user, especially if ingested in non-smoke form. So, for a government to scare people into believing that they, themselves, are not smart enough to know when and how to use cannabis as a means to obtain happiness, is an abuse of that government and should not be allowed by the people who support that government. The peoples right to self determination, and the pursuit of happiness, should always have precedence over unfounded and uneccesary governmental control!
I think I drank too much coffee before writing this, that can't be good for me............lets outlaw coffee!:aok I bet coca cola sales would skyrocket! hee hee:D
Mark
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I believe in MA, it is/or recently was, legal to bring a gun to church....to protect yourself from the Indians.... do a search for dumb laws, and see for yourself what a good job the government is doing in protecting us.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Yup, the mexicans in and around LA were seen as a "problem" because of the incredible influx of "whites". I believe it was the Mayor of LA at the time that contacted Hearst about joining with him to lobby for the illegalization. This along with what AKAK said is the are reasons that pot was made illegal. Simply put, a few super-rich folks wanted more money!!!
Mark
That was pretty much the same way cocaine was made illegal, however instead of using illegals they use black people. Our country is a nation up of hypocrites.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Ever noticed 100% of those that are for legalizing pot are those that have smoked it?
Not addicting at all though....
Marijuana is not addicting its the people who say that it is. Those type of people could get hooked on eating dirt. Anyone who says it is are one of those people.
I used to smoke it casually for a few years. One day I just stoped cold, and have only smoked it once since then.
It should not be legalized because then it would be taxed just like tobacco.
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Jeez, were going to be facist. Vote Ron Paul.
and that blind obediance thing, dood, you really better get a grip, and dont take the red pill. While your at it, stay away from the RFID Tag too.
cheers
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Ever noticed 100% of those that are for legalizing pot are those that have smoked it?
Not addicting at all though....
there are thousands of people in the world addicted to tapping a doorknob three times before opening the door! there is no proof whatsoever that dope is chemically addictive. i'm sure there are those who do have a certain dependence on it, but as i said before, people who become 'addicted' to these drugs, or ANYTHING for that matter are already pre-disposed to addiction, obsession, and more serious mental issues.
the vast, and we're talking huge majority of pot users have no kind of addiction, they can stop whenever they want, not touch the stuff ever again, and never feel anything bad. they choose to keep doing it, and it's their flipping choice, not some totalitarian stunninghunk. if you kept choosing to have a beer because you like it, would i accuse you of being an alcoholic?
there's a huge difference between addiction and choice. just because someone continously chooses has zero connection to addiction. as soon as that choice is removed, then it becomes addiction. almost all pot users are in no way addicted, they simply like it.
and you'd be wrong to assume that all those in support of legalising it have smoked it.
this isn't about just a drug, it's about choice, and about the government's refusal to let people choose for themselves.
and panzer/skyrock, i read an article a while back stating that the average spliff, half and half tobacco with leaves contains 80% of the tar or a cigartte, 50% of the nicotine. i flipping hate tobacco, i always roll it pure, which with leaves 0 nicotine, 60% tar. if you're rolling a joint with buds, i think the tar is slightly higher than in leaves, but in a pure joint the tar levels are still lower than a cigarette the same size, and contains just a small fraction of the crap that a cig does.
also, pot smokers only need to smoke a couple of spliffs a day, usually just one for a good time. smokers fill their lungs with that crap 20x more. infact there are those muppets that smoke 10 packs a day. first, how disgusting, second think how much tar is in that? it has no good effects, and it's insanely bad for you, yet it's still legal. pot? far less unhealthy (i'm not going to lie and say it has no adverse effects on your health, but it's far better than pretty much an other drug, including booze), but dope also has so many uses medically.
it's unjustly banned.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
maybe you and all the idiots here live under rocks but mind altering substances(illegal drugs) harm you whether you like that it harms you or not!
Our nation has made these substances illegal to protect us, not to be mean or so Bush can have it all to himself.
Yippee, another fool/tool chimes in.
For gosh sakes I hope no one tells him about our illustrious CIA unleashing LSD on America and consequently starting the counter culture revolution of the Sixties.
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Originally posted by crockett
That was pretty much the same way cocaine was made illegal, however instead of using illegals they use black people. Our country is a nation up of hypocrites.
yup. wine fortified with cocaine was one of the pope's favourite drinks :rofl
and where do you think coca cola get's it's name from?
another plant, the coca, a totally natural herb with amazing rejuvinating qualities, used by indians in south america for thousands of years, just like we use caffiene today. it was quite healthy till it was turned into cocaine and cut with ****.
Originally posted by Larry
It should not be legalized because then it would be taxed just like tobacco.
greedy bastards. i frickin hate government types
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Ref: Spencer recovery center
There is a good reason why admission to rehabilitation facilities has doubled for marijuana addiction. The potency of the drug continues to get more powerful and studies show that teens can get a hold of marijuana often easier than alcohol. Even those who seek treatment for drugs that are perceived has "harder" like heroin or cocaine will often acknowledge that marijuana is their primary drug of choice.
Marijuana addiction has the same characteristics as any other addiction to other drugs including alcohol, tobacco or even caffeine. The frequent obsession with the drug, thinking about it all the time, where to get it, when to get it, is there enough, is it good enough, will I have the money for more are frequently asked questions. Another trait of marijuana addiction is the physical craving that comes when the body adapts to the drug and begins to develop a tolerance to it. Anyone who has been smoking marijuana for awhile can tell that they must smoke more now to feel the same effect that just a few hits used to produce. It's not about the quality of the weed, it's the bodies defense mechanism as it readjusts to keep balance with the frequent supply of new chemicals being delivered by the pot.
Consequences of marijuana addiction start to take toll when the user continues to use marijuana even in the event of health or social consequences. Memory and learning problems may be causing problems at work or even result in losing a job because of high absenteeism. Increasing isolation from friends and family often puts heavy strain on relationships with loved ones. There is a vicious cycle to marijuana addiction in which these problems are often used as a rational to smoke even more pot. A trap that many fall into is that the drug that is causing the problem becomes the solution to the problem it caused.
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Originally posted by crockett
The nation's top anti-drug official said people need to overcome their "reefer blindness" and see that illicit marijuana gardens are a terrorist threat to the public's health and safety, as well as to the environment.
John P. Walters, President Bush's drug czar, said the people who plant and tend the gardens are terrorists who wouldn't hesitate to help other terrorists get into the country with the aim of causing mass casualties. Walters made the comments at a Thursday press conference that provided an update on the "Operation Alesia" marijuana-eradication effort.
"Don't buy drugs. They fund violence and terror," he said. (M-Kay?)
More proof that Disneyland on the Potomac is completely out of touch with reality, or feel the Proles are just too stoopid to seriously question their generated sound-bites of nonsense.
Sort of loses the high ground here with the argument, because you can also make a similar case for people that use gas, oil, and diesel. Much of those fuels come from the Middle East. A significant portion of the price of fuels gets back to the Middle East. And a significant portion of those profits make their way to terrorists.
Using gas supports terrorists.
All of you driving SUV's just report yourselves now to Gitmo right now. In fact, if you build, work on, or sell cars for a living, you support terrorists too.
Myself, I've never used recreational drugs. I've no interest in it either. But, I can also see what a total failure the "War on Drugs" has been, and what a drain to the national treasury and economy it has been for all these years.
A bloated police organization to fight it, and overtaxed courts and prison system to try and deal with it, large amounts on money thrown at it, and even more money sent to other countries as profits from it.
By all means: Legalize drugs. Regulate drugs. Tax drugs. Take the incentive and lucrative potential away from the criminal element.
Companies and states can keep their drug and alcohol use policies and abuse/influence laws. Even if it was legal, abusing such substances would result in loss of job, or a license, or jail time, as they can now. Put some of the money saved on holding prisoners on drug charges into more effective and widespread education and treatment programs.
As to those that would abuse drugs as they do alcohol and smokes now? Offer the treatment and support, but in the end, it's Darwinism in action.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Ref: Spencer recovery center
There is a good reason why admission to rehabilitation facilities has doubled for marijuana addiction. The potency of the drug continues to get more powerful and studies show that teens can get a hold of marijuana often easier than alcohol. Even those who seek treatment for drugs that are perceived has "harder" like heroin or cocaine will often acknowledge that marijuana is their primary drug of choice.
Marijuana addiction has the same characteristics as any other addiction to other drugs including alcohol, tobacco or even caffeine. The frequent obsession with the drug, thinking about it all the time, where to get it, when to get it, is there enough, is it good enough, will I have the money for more are frequently asked questions. Another trait of marijuana addiction is the physical craving that comes when the body adapts to the drug and begins to develop a tolerance to it. Anyone who has been smoking marijuana for awhile can tell that they must smoke more now to feel the same effect that just a few hits used to produce. It's not about the quality of the weed, it's the bodies defense mechanism as it readjusts to keep balance with the frequent supply of new chemicals being delivered by the pot.
Consequences of marijuana addiction start to take toll when the user continues to use marijuana even in the event of health or social consequences. Memory and learning problems may be causing problems at work or even result in losing a job because of high absenteeism. Increasing isolation from friends and family often puts heavy strain on relationships with loved ones. There is a vicious cycle to marijuana addiction in which these problems are often used as a rational to smoke even more pot. A trap that many fall into is that the drug that is causing the problem becomes the solution to the problem it caused.
Being a recovering addict myself of harder drugs I have to say that makes me laugh, theres no way you can get addicted to pot, you ever heard of someone committing crimes to get money for pot...I haven't, or someone getting dt's from not smoking...i haven't. I smoked pot when I was in my teen's for years and one day just decided I didn't feel like smoking it anymore so I stopped, tobacco is more addictive. As for building a tolerance to it that will happen with anything, after a time the body will adapt to a substance, even caffeine, should it be illegal.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
There is a good reason why admission to rehabilitation facilities has doubled for marijuana addiction. .
:rofl
There certainly is. If someone is stupid enough to give up there money for no reason there is always someone willing to take it. Recovery/rehabilitation centers with big names and impressive adds for everything from counting backwards to sheep lust. Build it and they will come. :)
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Originally posted by crockett
They are just embedding the enemy..Remember, you are either with us or against us.
You have got to be kidding me? How old are you?
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Originally posted by trax1
Being a recovering addict myself of harder drugs I have to say that makes me laugh, theres no way you can get addicted to pot, you ever heard of someone committing crimes to get money for pot...I haven't, or someone getting dt's from not smoking...i haven't. I smoked pot when I was in my teen's for years and one day just decided I didn't feel like smoking it anymore so I stopped, tobacco is more addictive. As for building a tolerance to it that will happen with anything, after a time the body will adapt to a substance, even caffeine, should it be illegal.
So, you didn't start with pot then??
I'm not saying that cigs or alch is less addictive....but, to claim pot is not addicting at all is just b.s.
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Originally posted by trax1
Being a recovering addict myself of harder drugs I have to say that makes me laugh, theres no way you can get addicted to pot, you ever heard of someone committing crimes to get money for pot...I haven't, or someone getting dt's from not smoking...i haven't. I smoked pot when I was in my teen's for years and one day just decided I didn't feel like smoking it anymore so I stopped, tobacco is more addictive. As for building a tolerance to it that will happen with anything, after a time the body will adapt to a substance, even caffeine, should it be illegal.
I disagree. But that is what makes the US a great place to live.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
So, you didn't start with pot then??
I'm not saying that cigs or alch is less addictive....but, to claim pot is not addicting at all is just b.s.
Ever smoked pot and then stopped? I have. It was as simple as saying, I would like to go for a walk now, and then doing it.
Ever smoked cigarettes and then stopped? I still smoke cigarettes and not by choice either.Marijuana addiction has the same characteristics as any other addiction to other drugs including alcohol, tobacco or even caffeine. The frequent obsession with the drug, thinking about it all the time, where to get it, when to get it, is there enough, is it good enough, will I have the money for more are frequently asked questions. Another trait of marijuana addiction is the physical craving that comes when the body adapts to the drug and begins to develop a tolerance to it. Anyone who has been smoking marijuana for awhile can tell that they must smoke more now to feel the same effect that just a few hits used to produce. It's not about the quality of the weed, it's the bodies defense mechanism as it readjusts to keep balance with the frequent supply of new chemicals being delivered by the pot.
Everything in that quote applies to tobacco (cigarettes) and not one applies to pot. I smoked pot for years and it never took more that a few hits (unless the stuff was just junk.)
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some studies i have seen say there are no addictive substances only addictive prone persons.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
So, you didn't start with pot then??
I'm not saying that cigs or alch is less addictive....but, to claim pot is not addicting at all is just b.s.
I think if you took a poll most people in this country smoked pot in high school, when I smoked pot I never did any hard drugs. I'll admit when I did smoke pot I smoked alot, but I never felt any kind of dt's or a urge to smoke it, I felt more of an urge to smoke a cigarette. When I was in rehab there was a girl there for pot addiction, you wanna know what they did for her, they put here on a opiate, now that was just insane. I hadn't smoked pot for years when I started using hard drugs, so smoking pot wasn't what lead me to use harder drugs. To say that pot is addictive is stupid, and if you've never smoked it you really can't give an opinion on it, just reading what some government propaganda report says isn't enough. The government needs to concentrate more on fighting harder drugs then spending money and time fighting pot heads.
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From:
TITLE 21 - FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER 13 - DRUG ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONTROL
Part (b) Evaluation of drugs and other substances
In making such evaluation and recommendations, the Secretary shall consider the factors listed in paragraphs (2), (3), (6), (7), and (8) of subsection (c) of this section and any scientific or medical considerations involved in paragraphs (1), (4), and (5) of such subsection.
(c) Factors determinative of control or removal from schedules In making any finding under subsection (a) of this section or under subsection (b) of section 812 of this title, the Attorney General shall consider the following factors with respect to each drug or other substance proposed to be controlled or removed from the schedules:
(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.
Comment: Marijuana is very hard to abuse. Though one can abuse it it tends not to be fatal in any way. Food can be abused far more than marijuana.
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect, if known.
Comment: Most known pharmacological effects are beneficial. The rub here is that the Feds restrict any legitimate research into the effects of pot.
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the drug or other substance.
Comment: As stated above, the Federal Government actively restricts any research into to Marijuana. Effectively stifling any challenge to the status quo.
(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.
Comment: Used mainly by young people and minorities at the time of passage of this act (1970). Again, this raises the whole abuse issue.
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.
Comment: Negligible, most "pot heads" are fairly benign people. they don't have the ambition to rob a liquor store. Though they might steel a twinkie.
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.
Comment: The greatest risk to public health is the crime associated with pot being illegal.
(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.
Comment: There isn't one. Many people simply stop using it with no ill effects.
(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance already controlled under this subchapter.
Comment: It is not, there is no such thing as refined pot.
Using the above guidelines you could just as easily make toenail clipping a controlled substance. Also, by these criteria, why is alcohol still legal?
The whole point of the Controlled Substance act is that no new legislation needs to be passed to make a substance 'controlled". All one needs to do is get enough "grant hungry" researcher to give you the right findings.
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Originally posted by john9001
some studies i have seen say there are no addictive substances only addictive prone persons.
Now thats stupid, lemma tell ya when your a heroin user you defiantly know it's an addictive substance, when you don't have it you feel like your dying, you throw up, every muscle hurts, you can't sleep, you just feel like complete crap. Now try and tell me how thats not an addictive substance?
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good post bucky, but i still have to disagree.
many of these addicts are people, like i said, who have addictive personalities. there are a lot of weird addictions out there, and i'm talking real addictions, which have no phyical addictive agent in them. almost all addicts of anything are predisposed to it.
i'm 18, i've smoked for a few years. not in huge regular amounts, but as a recreational drug with friends, when we feel like it. i am in no way addicted or feel any connectinon to the drug, and i'm careful with how i use it. the first time i took hard skunk i had too much for a first time, and had strong paranoia, and lost much of my short term memory while talking to people for a few hours while i was high. it kinda scared me, so i didn't touch the stuff for a few months, i had nothing like addiction whatsoever, i didn't even think about weed for a month. at the same time though, i was perfectly happy lighting up again, it in no way changed my mind or perceptions.
i've tried my fair share being a teen, E, coke, LSD, but dope is the only one i really take. i don't like artificial. smoking anything has health risks, but i choose to smoke.
also, being an 18 yr old, i drink a fair amount, as you do. i'm a nice drunk, i'm happy, funny, and usually not too stupid. but i've overdone it, just like we all have, and you can get really stupid, and even really angry. alcohol is SO much more dangerous than weed. it's FAR more addictive (TBH, i've never heard of a PROPER weed addiction. perhaps some emotional dependance, but that's because the guys are freaks and need to see a shrink).
i have no history of any mental health issues in my family, or in me, and i seem to be just fine. my memory is good, i'm smart, healthy, play a lot of sports, i'm in good shape, and feel quite alive and alright. i have never noticed any adverse effects from weed apart from mild paranoia and very short term mild memory loss (for a few hours while high, and it's nothing major, you just tend to forget what you were going to say, and what the conversation was about), and this is only when i've taken too much, and usually only with strong skunk (we're talking white widow stuff here). a morning after can be groggy and a bit slowed down, especially if you were also drinking, but this passes by mid afternoon, and you are totally back to normal. the grogginess is nothing like a hangover, there is no sicky feeling, no headaches, nothing, just a slighty slower feeling, like you're tired. it passes quickly and there are no lasting aftereffects. i'd prefer a groggy come-down to a hangover anyday, it's not as nasty, and it doesn't last as long.
i've had my fair share of stuff, and i have always felt that weed was one of the healthiest and least addictive.
i don't know whether you have ever smoked, but without actually experiencing it, i can't help but feel your judgement cannot be entirely best informed.
as long as you are responsible with dope, it is a great drug. i personally see no reason for it to be illegal, and all those who do, have never touched, so how could they POSSIBLY know what they're talking about?
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Pot is/can be psychologically addicting, which in a large number of cases can be even harder to "quit" thank something that is physically addicting.
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scene, two pot heads planing a robbery.
pot head 1:: "hey man, know what?"
pot head 2::"what man?'
pot head 1:: "hey man, we should go rob a 7/11"
pot head 2:: " ok, man, but maybe next week, i'm like into this cool music now"
pot head 1::" cool man.........hey, what were we talking about?"
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there are definitely some highly addictive drugs, addictive because of the chemicals in them. pot isn't one of them.
the ONLY way you could get addicted to pot is if you aren't of sound mind. and if that's so, you shouldn't try any drug, even alcohol or caffiene.
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Originally posted by john9001
scene, two pot heads planing a robbery.
pot head 1:: "hey man, know what?"
pot head 2::"what man?'
pot head 1:: "hey man, we should go rob a 7/11"
pot head 2:: " ok, man, but maybe next week, i'm like into this cool music now"
pot head 1::" cool man.........hey, what were we talking about?"
:rofl
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Pot is/can be psychologically addicting, which in a large number of cases can be even harder to "quit" thank something that is physically addicting.
yes, very true, but it's not actually the pot itself that is addictive. it is the effects on the person that they feel they can't go without. they're usually washed up guys with mental health issues. same with alcohol, although booze is also slightly chemically addictive.
banning a substance that 99% of people use responsibly and enjoy, because of the 1% of loons is stupid.
more people are addicted to sex than pot i would wager. are you going to tell me that sex should be illegal? thought not, rofl
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Here in Chicago the police don't even care if you have pot on you, I can't tell you how many times I've been pulled over on the Westside of Chicago and they found pot on friends of mine and they don't do anything, they even give it back to them, there reasoning being they need to spend time fighting harder drugs then taking time to do paper work on a pot user. Heroin, Coke , and Meth are 3 of the most evil substances on earth and the government needs to spend time and money fighting those, not pot.
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You will never convince me that pot isn't bad for you. I've seen too many people that just smoke pot "casually" and have only been doing it for 20 years or so (but, they aren't addicted):rofl and their motor skills are definately effected by years of this crap. One of my high school buddies is a good example of this.
Biggles:more people are addicted to sex than pot i would wager. are you going to tell me that sex should be illegal? thought not, rofl
I think my odds of getting killed by a pot smoker on the road are a bit higher than it would be of getting killed by a nympho.
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yup
here in the UK they won't be too bad with you if you have a small amount. they just give you an informal warning, and usually confiscate it.
that said, they weren't happy when a few mates and i were sitting in a friend's front garden singing at 3am. told us to take our joints inside and go to sleep :)
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bucky, if you're responsible with your intake, like i've been, there are hardly any effects. my guess is your friend was quite a heavy smoker for some time. of course pot is bad for you. breathing oxygen is bad for you, it's what eventually kills us all. you can't live your life constantly worrying about everything.
pot is less dangerous than booze, will you argue that point? so why then is pot illegal when booze isn't?
as for driving while stoned, i personally think it's less dangerous than driving while drunk. as long as you aren't too stoned you still have a lot of control. i agree though, that driving under the influence is incredibly stupid, and it's up to the moron to choose not to risk his, and other people's lives so stupidly. i've never driven under the influence of anything, but if i was to, it certainly wouldn't be while i was on pot. if i was justa bit stoned, i'd be far too smart to do anything like that. pot makes you think about stuff a lot, quite meditative. if you're really high as a kite you'll be so paranoid you won't touch the car with a ten foot pole. high drivers are the least of your worries, if they've let themselves drive, they usually made that choice based on good logic, ie. only having a few tokes.
it's not up to some controlling knobhead to tell me what to do, i'll smoke what i bloody like thankyou very much. surely that is what america was based on when it was founded, freedom? shame it's lost that, it's become a beaurocratic and greed driven joke.
time we told these wankstains to piss off!
again, i'm not disputing the fact that pot has health issues, but that i should have the freedom to do what i want with MY body. if it's MY choice, why should anyone else care?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You have got to be kidding me? How old are you?
I guess the sarcasm passed you by. ;)
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Originally posted by crockett
I guess the sarcasm passed you by. ;)
As did mine. :cool:
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Originally posted by trax1
Here in Chicago the police don't even care if you have pot on you, I can't tell you how many times I've been pulled over on the Westside of Chicago and they found pot on friends of mine and they don't do anything, they even give it back to them, there reasoning being they need to spend time fighting harder drugs then taking time to do paper work on a pot user. Heroin, Coke , and Meth are 3 of the most evil substances on earth and the government needs to spend time and money fighting those, not pot.
Agreed 100%.
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So which party wants to end the "war on drugs"? not the democrats... the democrats may play a little lip service to the pot heads from time to time but they love the war on drugs as much as anyone.
If it were up to me.. you would be able to buy a pound of heroin at the supermarket for $5 and only show an ID that you were 18.
lazs
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Originally posted by Larry
Whats the score on the redwings game?
This dude called that cop asking for his wifes brownie recipe:
"The quest for Ms Sanchez brownies"
http://www.myspace.com/sanchezbrownies
"...illicit marijuana gardens are a terrorist threat to the public's health and safety..."
Are there gangs of wild buds leaping from their illicit manure sanctuaries killing people on the streets?... are suicide gardens threatening to blow us up at the mall? did marijuana join al quada over the weekend?
Only our .gov could come to the conclusion a patch of dirt with weeds growing out if was dangerous.
Whats dangerous are the drug laws, and imbecile hacks like dude.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If it were up to me.. you would be able to buy a pound of heroin at the supermarket for $5 and only show an ID that you were 18.
lazs
I'm sorry but I can't agree with that, me being a recovering ex-heroin user I know how dangrous this drug can be. I've lost too many of my friends to heroin overdoses, my g/f died right next to me in my bed, so I can tell you seeing what it can do shows you how evil it is. That drug will make you do anything and hurt the ones you love just to get another fix, it cost me all my non-using friends, my family members, and it cost me my freedom.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
You will never convince me that pot isn't bad for you. I've seen too many people that just smoke pot "casually" and have only been doing it for 20 years or so (but, they aren't addicted):rofl and their motor skills are definately effected by years of this crap. One of my high school buddies is a good example of this.
Biggles:more people are addicted to sex than pot i would wager. are you going to tell me that sex should be illegal? thought not, rofl
I think my odds of getting killed by a pot smoker on the road are a bit higher than it would be of getting killed by a nympho.
What other drugs do they take that you know of? over the counter pain meds? Prozac? alcohol?, nicotine? crack? et al?? things you don't know about?
What, if any, possible adverse reactions do you attribute to drugs besides weed?
Any drug, legal or otherwise, has side effects.. its entirely possible your motor skill challenged friend is reacting poorly to something else. It would be impossible to say weed alone is the only reason.
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Well i guess i'm from a terrorist nation as my govt grows and distributes pot for medicinal use.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
more people are addicted to sex than pot i would wager. are you going to tell me that sex should be illegal? thought not, rofl
Don't be too sure. Depends on just how far Right-Wing Republican the person's views are.
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The ONDCP is as full of crap now as always.
The sooner Americans stop listening to them, stop thinking they actually know what they're talking about, and start realizing that there are other serious agendas in play, the sooner we as a nation can begin to approach a sane policy towards drugs.
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you can't end the "war on drugs", the bureaucracy has gotten too big and too powerful, they will never give that up. Remember what happened when the govt tried to merge the ATF into the FBI, "showtime" at waco.
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as the non pot generation dies off, legalization is otw
I hope it is legalized at the fed level as a medicine way before that ...
IN POT WE TRUST (http://www.sho.com/site/schedules/product_page.do?seriesid=0&episodeid=128077) should be required viewing for every politician in the pharmaceutical pocket
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When the world starts to stress you out, what you do?
Put a cancer stick up in your mouth or grab a brew
Sold in stores but the fact remains is they the blame
And the government's been taxing that - getting paid
If it's taxable it's cool to smoke - kill or not
And the alcohol is killing folks? True or not
Other people try to make you bad - but I know your not
When my situation's looking sad I know I got
A true friend in my time of need - all I need
Your natural you come from seeds - I decree
Makes me happy when I'm felling pain
Once again makes me happy just to hear your name
Do your thang Mary Jane
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
What other drugs do they take that you know of? over the counter pain meds? Prozac? alcohol?, nicotine? crack? et al?? things you don't know about?
What, if any, possible adverse reactions do you attribute to drugs besides weed?
Any drug, legal or otherwise, has side effects.. its entirely possible your motor skill challenged friend is reacting poorly to something else. It would be impossible to say weed alone is the only reason.
this guys is just baked....and it isn't from tylenol:D
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Originally posted by Bucky73
this guys is just baked....and it isn't from tylenol:D
too much glue sniffing or freon sniffing or.....................?
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Originally posted by SOB
Drilling for oil in Alaskan wilderness: Good for America, environmentally sound.
Growing Marijuana: Threat to the environment.
Anyone who says otherwise is a terrorist loving scumbag. Anyone who endangers the environment and Amurrikah by buying pot will be jailed. And don't get your hopes up for a Fair & Balanced Pardon, neither.
If we could tap all the oil supplys in Alaska then we wouldn't be having soooo many oil issues! We could ignore more things happening in the middle east instead of getting all scared because we might run out of oil!
Checked gas prices lately, seen them way back when!
Big difference!
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Meet the original "Drug Czar" and the man behind the prohibition of marijuana in the US. Harry J. Anslinger. (http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/anslinger.htm)
I also "highly" recommend everyone watch GRASS. (http://imdb.com/title/tt0214730/) It's immoral how much money the government has wasted.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
If we could tap all the oil supplys in Alaska then we wouldn't be having soooo many oil issues! We could ignore more things happening in the middle east instead of getting all scared because we might run out of oil!
Checked gas prices lately, seen them way back when!
Big difference!
umm you do know that the oil in Alaska will only account for something like 1% of our oil needs. I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was honestly not much and not really worth ruining a natural preserve for.
If we had spent the 400+ billion that's been spent in Iraq on new renewable energy sources. Well then we would be doing something positive to getting us off oil.
Of course they wont do that, because there are hundreds of billions of dollars left to squeeze out of the oil fields..
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Originally posted by crockett
umm you do know that the oil in Alaska will only account for something like 1% of our oil needs. I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was honestly not much and not really worth ruining a natural preserve for.
If we had spent the 400+ billion that's been spent in Iraq on new renewable energy sources. Well then we would be doing something positive to getting us off oil.
Of course they wont do that, because there are hundreds of billions of dollars left to squeeze out of the oil fields..
Yup, and I'm not sure exactly the number of years it is, but there's only something like 50 years worth of oil left in the earth so were gonna have to find some new or renewable energy resources. You think gas prices are out of control now wait until it gets closer to the point of running out, and if we don't do something about it this world is gonna come to a stop, think about everything that is dependent on oil and it's energy.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
So, you didn't start with pot then??
I'm not saying that cigs or alch is less addictive....but, to claim pot is not addicting at all is just b.s.
Bucky, really bro, you have to be kidding. Anyone who has studied the psychology of addictions knows that what you posted is nonsense. Pot is not addicting at all. Some people actually admit to being addicted to pot in the studies I have read, also almost 99% of the time those who admitted that pot was addictive to them, were diagnosed with bi-polar manic depressive or some off shoot there of like obsessive compulsive disorder, during their treatment and counseling sessions. These folks get addicted to stuff like smelling/eating paste in the third grade and crap like that. Before you make comments like this last one, you really should delve in to what makes people become addicts in the first place. Read up on the psychology of addictive personalities before believing some rhetoric from some drug treatment center that is in it for the money in the first place.
Mark
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ShyRock is right bucky, pot is not an addictive substance, those that claim to be addicted almost always have some kind of phycological problem. Pot has no kind of physical withdrawal symptoms. This country's government needs to be spending more time and money fighting harder drugs like heroin, coke, and meth as these drugs are highly addictive and cause the user to commit crimes to obtain money to buy the drugs. I have never known a pot user who went out and stole or robbed someone to get money for it. And I assume that you've never smoked pot so you really can't give an opinion on it just based on reading about it on the internet. And claiming that it's just unhealthy for you and thats why it's illegal and shouldn't be used is like saying hamburgers are unhealthy for you, which kill way more people every year then any amount of pot use does.
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to stick with the topic about funding terrorism look at diamonds far worse than weed for funding gun buying crazies in 3rd world countries. dont see any rich people or govts in a hurry to stop the diamond trade
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Originally posted by hazydaze
to stick with the topic about funding terrorism look at diamonds far worse than weed for funding gun buying crazies in 3rd world countries. dont see any rich people or govts in a hurry to stop the diamond trade
Exactly, and heroin funds way more money to terrorist then pot ever could, Afghanistan is one of the worlds leading producers of heroin and who do you think are the ones growing and selling it?
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Bucky, really bro, you have to be kidding. Anyone who has studied the psychology of addictions knows that what you posted is nonsense. Pot is not addicting at all. Some people actually admit to being addicted to pot in the studies I have read, also almost 99% of the time those who admitted that pot was addictive to them, were diagnosed with bi-polar manic depressive or some off shoot there of like obsessive compulsive disorder, during their treatment and counseling sessions. These folks get addicted to stuff like smelling/eating paste in the third grade and crap like that. Before you make comments like this last one, you really should delve in to what makes people become addicts in the first place. Read up on the psychology of addictive personalities before believing some rhetoric from some drug treatment center that is in it for the money in the first place.
Mark
I wonder if these idiots at Brown University know what they are talking about.:confused:
No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.
For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. More than 120,000 people in the US seek treatment for marijuana addiction every year. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.
>I could show you 100's of reports like this...
Maybe you should do some reading
:D
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deleted
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I wonder if these idiots at Brown University know what they are talking about.:confused:
No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.
For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. More than 120,000 people in the US seek treatment for marijuana addiction every year. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.
>I could show you 100's of reports like this...
Maybe you should do some reading
:D
Ok as for those lab test on animals they give mice like 100 times the amount of THC then any user would ever use, as for it being physically addictive there is no way that you would get DT's from not smoking pot, a heavy user might psychological feel the urge to smoke if he stopped, but thats about it. As for your body building up a tolerance to it, your body builds up a tolerance to any drug, including nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine, does that mean that anything you can build a tolerance to should be made illegal? As for pot being called a gateway drug to using harder drugs, this just isn't true ethier, in Amsterdam weed was made legal a few decades ago, since it has been legal there has been no significant increase in heroin or coke user. Pot is one of the more harmless drugs you can use, there are legal drugs that are way more dangerous then pot, yet the government says they are ok. If you wanna fight for something that will actually save more lives, fight to make tobacco or alcohol illegal, because those are some of this country's biggest killers.
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Dam you mean all the Mary Jane, Hash, Acid I've done, the Meth, the Heroin, Ludes, Seconal, Speed, Crank, Barbies, Uppers, Downers, Morphine and all the stuff I couldn't smoke, snort or shoot up my veins will make me a Loser?
Fooled me...
:D
Mac
Of everything that I've ever done, I hate cigerettes the most.
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I smoked pot once, but I never exhaled.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I wonder if these idiots at Brown University know what they are talking about.:confused:
No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.
For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. More than 120,000 people in the US seek treatment for marijuana addiction every year. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.
>I could show you 100's of reports like this...
Maybe you should do some reading
:D
Bucky, if you want to find information telling you that marijauna is addictive, you will find no shortage of idiots pretending to study "the effects of marijuana". The real truth is, addiction is a condition of a psychological disorder! Do you understand how many people would stand up and yell, "I was once a marijuana addict." just so they could get attention? Weak links are weak links, no matter what they get obsessive about! Most people I know that smoke pot, do so because they enjoy the relaxing feeling that it's affect has on them. They would rather be getting along with their gf or wife, and spending quality time with people they love without constantly worrying about what some schmuck down the road has to say about the way they live! It is a way of life, not some social health problem. There are far worse "real" problems that society(and humanity) faces that should be brought to the forefront of discussion, rather than whether or not Joe Schmo had a joint after dinner before he watched the game! Damn, many pot smokers actually start smiling after they hit the blunt. Have you studied the health benefits of smiling?????:aok
Mark
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yay! a couple of times a year i sponsor terrorists then i suppose.
Does that mean i can be sent to cuba? With the weather we are having these days abit of sun would be great :)
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I just gave Osama $40.
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You are teh evil terrorist supporter rpm. shame on you! :mad:
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
banning a substance that 99% of people use responsibly and enjoy, because of the 1% of loons is stupid.
I would say that's true across the board, not just related to chemical substances. Wouldn't you agree?
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trax. I have been a drug addict myself and I can't understand what you are talking about.. If heroin were free to anyone who was 18 I still wouldn't do it... neither would anyone I know. The people who would do it will do it even if it is $500 a gram.
They will simply steal to get it. You yourself admitted that. So what is wrong with letting the addicts have it for cost?
You guys who want to tax it... regulate it.. you are just continueing the war on drugs.. if the tax is high enough then the crime will continue.
drug addicts are pretty much useless. they don't support themselves much less their habit (their are exceptions of course) even if they do... eventually they slip into worthlessness.
give the drugs away... no one who doesn't do drugs now will do em if they are free or cheap. once it is out in the open people can see how messed up addicts really are. the example will be good to see.
lazs
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Just so you know.
Pot wont be legalized on the federal level until Abbot, Pharmacia, Bayer, Merk and Eli Lily start growing, packaging and marketing it.
Then as if by magic thousands of clinical test will come out on its proven medical uses.
Then doctors will prescribe it for everything from earaches to hangnails.
Your script card will work at any pharmacy for it. It will cost about $300 for a 10 day supply, but you will only have to pay your $10 co- pay.
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Originally posted by stockli
Just so you know.
Pot wont be legalized on the federal level until Abbot, Pharmacia, Bayer, Merk and Eli Lily start growing, packaging and marketing it.
Then as if by magic thousands of clinical test will come out on its proven medical uses.
Then doctors will prescribe it for everything from earaches to hangnails.
Your script card will work at any pharmacy for it. It will cost about $300 for a 10 day supply, but you will only have to pay your $10 co- pay.
Basically, Docness just hit the nail on the head! I wonder what the link between pharmacutical makers and the war on drugs would look like, and the history of any found links? :noid
Mark
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Originally posted by Bucky73
this guys is just baked....and it isn't from tylenol:D
Do you know any side effects of Tylenol? One biggie after prolonged use is liver damage , which causes weakness and lack of energy. Or diminished motor skills.
You're assuming weed is the cause while looking past legal drugs that can cause the same symptoms..
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Originally posted by stockli
Just so you know.
Pot wont be legalized on the federal level until Abbot, Pharmacia, Bayer, Merk and Eli Lily start growing, packaging and marketing it.
Then as if by magic thousands of clinical test will come out on its proven medical uses.
Then doctors will prescribe it for everything from earaches to hangnails.
Your script card will work at any pharmacy for it. It will cost about $300 for a 10 day supply, but you will only have to pay your $10 co- pay.
Thats one way it could come about... but I think eventually "the people" will vote medical weed legal via ballot measures in enough states that will force a change in Fed laws. It's about that time the Pharmacy peeps will suddenly discover a million & 1 uses for this new amazing plant that grows anywhere for pennies on the dollar.
If pot users support terrorists; 12 states now support terrorism... and need Fed troops to invade and restore order.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent.
:D
What in your expert opinion is heavily dependant?
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Lol...I'll choose to believe what has been proven over and over again. So, you smokers that are trying to sell me this "it isn't addictive" crap might as well save it unless you can show me proof other than giving me your opinion on it.
It's funny, you guys always ask for a reference and when you get one then you find some way to pick it apart so it's in your favor. Priceless:rofl
I love this -I've been smoking for 20 years, but i'm not addicted- crap. :rofl :rofl
I don't care if you smoke it. I don't. But, I also don't think it should be legal. Anybody, that thinks this country would be a safer place if they legalized pot is obviously using too much of their product.
Please show me some proof....And not from cheechandchong.com
Here is some info from NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse)
The main active chemical in marijuana is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). The membranes of certain nerve cells in the brain contain protein receptors that bind to THC. Once securely in place, THC kicks off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the high that users experience when they smoke marijuana.
The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana abuse indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system(4) and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine(5). Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.
Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they abuse the drug compulsively even though it interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. Drug craving and withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop abusing the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, and anxiety(31). They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately one week after the last use of the drug(32).
ooops it says institute.....That GD Bush must be in charge of this site
:rofl :rofl
marine...please. I know he hasn't been taking tylenol 8-10 times a day like he does with his (non addictive) pot.:rofl
sirloin...................... ..................?
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Bucky
I dont smoke pot but feel uncle sam should get his bellybutton out of our personal lives.
The govt doesnt care whats addictive - see caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, vicadin, oxycontin, morphine etc. (last three derive from opium, pretty damn addictive) All somehow approved for use whether by script or otc.
Again lool at aspartame. Approved by FDA to be put into food. Lab test proved this to be harmful but our favorite uncle don rumsfield pushed that through, Im sure its a coincidental that he had a large interest in Nutrasweet.
Caffeine causes hardening of the arteries, hormone fluctuations and can weaken hearts with genetic defects.
I dont care if pot is addicitve as hell, and for the government to claim (at least partially) that dependency is one of the reasons it needs to stay illegal is laughable, considering the other drugs they let get through.
Lipitor is so dangerous for your liver it causes cirrhosis within months of typical use, and the makers were getting sued for damages, but somehow that is still out there as a safe and effective way to lower marginally high cholesterol. (check the net for labs and lawsuits)
Again these guys dont care about you, they care about power and money. They would sell there grandmas sole to the devil for both.
Bucky allowing them to decide what we can and cant do is taking all of our freedom. Look at the joke known as the patriot act. What has that done to protect us? Nothing, but we now have to assume our phone convos can be listened to at any point?
Alright Ill stop...
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to an addict all things are addictive. nothing we can do about that. I have known people who used pot addictively for decades... they were pretty much useless during that time but...
Not my call. No one watching them would want to be like em unless they were an addict themselves.
It doesn't matter how cheap speed or heroin is... most will simply not touch it.. or, if they do.. they will drop it and never try it again.
If it were all legal and eaisily available then the only penalty would be for endangering others.
Pot should be legal... anyone driving under the influence of it should get a DUI... do it more than once and face jail..
If you work in a job where safety is an issue... the employer should have the right to test you and fire you if you test positive... if he does not then I should sue him for everything he has for endangering me by creating an unsafe workplace full of druggies.
simple stuff really.
lazs
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Lol...I'll choose to believe what has been proven over and over again. So, you smokers that are trying to sell me this "it isn't addictive" crap might as well save it unless you can show me proof other than giving me your opinion on it.
I
Weed isn't physically addictive, thats easy to verify.. look up the difference between physical withdrawal symptoms of opiates & stimulants, versus weed.
Read various opinions, rather than one supplied for you.. might learn something.
People can develop a dependency for weed... just like "choc-o-holics" claim dependency on Hershey bars. The coca coca bean isn't physically addicting, but people can "crave" the way it makes them feel. Some people crave the way sex makes them feel, a-lot of cops I worked with, including myself, are admittedly adrenaline junkies who crave the rush of excitement.
Opiates, like heroine, create a literal physical "addiction" with significantly miserable withdrawal symptoms.... Weed is like chocolate and sex, some folks just love the way it makes them feel and develop a dependency.
Ask any cop you know with DRE training.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Lol
I don't care if you smoke it. I don't. But, I also don't think it should be legal. Anybody, that thinks this country would be a safer place if they legalized pot is obviously using too much of their product.
There would be no DOPE DEALERS
There would be less moneys coming in for the government.(unless they grew it and sold it too the public).
The crime rate would drop.
Don't believe me, fly to Amsterdam for yourself to see.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
chronically exposed animals
hogwash
You are still saying that the drug is addictive, but give no studies showing that "normal" usage or casual usage causes the addiction as opposed to a person who is pre-disposed to being an addict. I am more interested in why out of 60-70% of americans who have tried marijuana and those who still use the drug recreationally, only a small percentage end up being full blown addicts and almost always those addicts are involved in the abuse of other drugs along with the pot? I don't really believe that a study where a rat is given the amount of THC you would find in 50 joints a day, for 2 months, then be dropped from it and studied, can give us factual scientific data.
Until we find out more about the psychology of addiction, we must not bow to biased studies often financed by one wing or the other. Definitely, we have seen over the last decade or so, that studies of more common(and legal I might add) chemicals are giving some of the same data as those studies of illegal chemicals when researching addictions. If you have some really good info, bucky, Id like to read it!
Mark
PS maybe they meant "exposed to the Chronic" instead of "chronically exposed"! hee hee:D
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Originally posted by lazs2
to an addict all things are addictive. nothing we can do about that. I have known people who used pot addictively for decades... they were pretty much useless during that time but...
Not my call. No one watching them would want to be like em unless they were an addict themselves.
It doesn't matter how cheap speed or heroin is... most will simply not touch it.. or, if they do.. they will drop it and never try it again.
If it were all legal and eaisily available then the only penalty would be for endangering others.
Pot should be legal... anyone driving under the influence of it should get a DUI... do it more than once and face jail..
If you work in a job where safety is an issue... the employer should have the right to test you and fire you if you test positive... if he does not then I should sue him for everything he has for endangering me by creating an unsafe workplace full of druggies.
simple stuff really.
lazs
pretty much!:aok
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Do you know any side effects of Tylenol? One biggie after prolonged use is liver damage , which causes weakness and lack of energy. Or diminished motor skills.
You're assuming weed is the cause while looking past legal drugs that can cause the same symptoms..
Tylenol is the #1 killer for nonprescription drugs,in fact recent commerials on TV state" if you cant take this drug as recommended,we'd rather you not take it".
Did you know that before 1935 you could purchase,morphine,heroin,ect from any drugist.In fact Sears&Robuck sold syringes and morphine.
I dont advocate that we return to this but until our Goverment start treating drugs as a medical problem and not a criminal problem,I'm afraid many people will die or waist their lives behind bars.
Man has used mind altering substances since we climbed down from trees,this will never change,only our attitudes towards how we deal with the problem can change.
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"reefer madness" refers to the pot banners not the pot users.:lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
trax. I have been a drug addict myself and I can't understand what you are talking about.. If heroin were free to anyone who was 18 I still wouldn't do it... neither would anyone I know. The people who would do it will do it even if it is $500 a gram.
They will simply steal to get it. You yourself admitted that. So what is wrong with letting the addicts have it for cost?
You guys who want to tax it... regulate it.. you are just continueing the war on drugs.. if the tax is high enough then the crime will continue.
drug addicts are pretty much useless. they don't support themselves much less their habit (their are exceptions of course) even if they do... eventually they slip into worthlessness.
give the drugs away... no one who doesn't do drugs now will do em if they are free or cheap. once it is out in the open people can see how messed up addicts really are. the example will be good to see.
lazs
Heroin has to be the most evil substance invented, to make it legal and cheap would be insane, if it was available at any store and you could get it cheap there are definitely gonna be more people overdosing on it. I've personally seen this drug destroy people and their loved ones lives. Heroin is a drug that needs to be removed from the face of the Earth, not made more accessible and cheaper. There is just no way you could ever convince me it would be a good idea to legalize it, if you ever were, or have known and loved someone who is addicted to heroin I don't think you would feel that it should be made legal. Heroin being illegal is probably what saved my life and got me clean. If I hadn't gone to prision and had the chance to clean out and see what my addiction had done to me and cost me my freedom I don't think I would be clean now, I might have been dead by now. I thank the government for making it illegal and putting me in jail for the crimes I comitted to obtain heroin, like I said without that who knows where I'd be, and theres alot of people I know that are ex-heroin addicts and they got clean the same way I did. Like I said if it was made legal you would see a sharp rise in people overdosing on it because they can get large quantities cheaply, so user would take more of the drug because they can get it cheaply and would OD on it, and no one deserves to die just because they are an addict.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I don't care if you smoke it. I don't. But, I also don't think it should be legal. Anybody, that thinks this country would be a safer place if they legalized pot is obviously using too much of their product.
Well then Bucky I hope that you also don't smoke cigarettes, or drink alcohol and feel that these should be illegal as well because those are 2 of this country's biggest killers. Cigarettes kill more people then cancer every year, people drink alcohol and kill people while driving drunk, yet alcohol is legal, so do you feel this countrys a safer place with alcohol legal?
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Linking Terrorism and Drugs is a lame idea....Then anyone w/ a brain cell will think.."If the government has done so poorly on its 40+ year "War on Drugs", or the "War on Crime", or the "War on Poverty", then the "War on Terror" might go just as well. (OD's are up, Crime is up, Lower-class is up...Al-Queda is Up!!)
Or maybe they learned that they could milk trillions of Dollars from taxpayers on a "war" that never ends, so now they transferred those lessons to the "terror" wars. The point....there have always been "terrorists" and "drugs". No Power has ever eradicated either, and neither will the "I have my head up my ass" gov't we have.
Besides, alcohol and tobacco are the most addictive drugs in the US, and the gov't supports and allows those businesses to thrive openly. It even makes money off those "drugs"...hmmmm that would make them terrorists....oh its gettin so clear now....
I myself am drug and terrorist free....but i say weed is better than war...if everyone smoked weed, then there would be no terrorists....its worth a try since these "War on...." things have only made everything worse!
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Honestly meth and crack are probably more dangerous animals than heroin itself.
Smoking ingestion vs. IV ingestion make it more appealing to casual trial. They are both cheaper, and meth can be made from materials that are legally available on the domestic market. Any idiot with a kitchen can make either one of these (especially crack).
From seeing people on all three of these things I would have to say (purely from observation and discussion) that crack and meth are more debilitating and provoke their users into more frequent episodes of use. By this I mean that crack, as it is smoked and enters/leaves the body faster, will tend to be used more frequently than IV drugs.
I've never had someone on heroin walk up to me and ask me to kill them...
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I did smoke but I quit, I do drink but if I couldn't I wouldn't piss and moan about it. You guys are just whinning because you like to smoke it. End of Story. Would this country be safer if alcohol wasn't illegal?-Absolutely, but adding pot as a legal substance CERTAINLY won't help matters. Two wrongs dont' make a right.
Think about it...Do you really NEED pot?? If you do then you have bigger problems than bickering back and forth with me on these boards. The fact that some of you are argueing with me alone is proof that it is addictive.
Too many people need to put crap in their body to make them "feel good" and it's just stupid. Don't get me wrong I'm guilty of it myself as I posted above but that still doesn't mean it's right. Legalizing pot will just add another (get away) for people.
Keep it banned
:aok
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Only users lose drugs:)
Oz
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Would this country be safer if alcohol wasn't illegal?-Absolutely,
ahh, like alcohol is legal beavis.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Think about it...Do you really NEED pot??
no, but it's MY right to choose to smoke it, not some stunninghunk.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
...Do you really NEED pot??
That is for noone to determine but a free man himself!
Mark
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Think about it...Do you really NEED pot?? If you do then you have bigger problems than bickering back and forth with me on these boards. The fact that some of you are argueing with me alone is proof that it is addictive.
Personally I haven't smoked pot in years, but I do feel that it is a drug that should be removed from the banned substance list. I feel that this government spends to much time and money arresting people for a drug that is harmless compared to the drugs that are legal like alcohol and nicotine. There are alot of medical uses for marijuana that should be allowed, like giving it to cancer patients to help there pain, and help with there appetite so they'll eat. It's also known to help with glaucoma patients. So as I've stated before, I personally don't smoke pot anymore, but I do feel that it's harmless enough(compared to other legal drugs) that it should be made legal.
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You bet....if it can be used to help someone ease their pain from a medical issue I am all for it.:aok
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
Honestly meth and crack are probably more dangerous animals than heroin itself.
Smoking ingestion vs. IV ingestion make it more appealing to casual trial. They are both cheaper, and meth can be made from materials that are legally available on the domestic market. Any idiot with a kitchen can make either one of these (especially crack).
From seeing people on all three of these things I would have to say (purely from observation and discussion) that crack and meth are more debilitating and provoke their users into more frequent episodes of use. By this I mean that crack, as it is smoked and enters/leaves the body faster, will tend to be used more frequently than IV drugs.
I've never had someone on heroin walk up to me and ask me to kill them...
I have to disagree with you, even though they are all very evil substances and should all be avoided at all cost, I have to say heroin is the worst of the 3. Heroin is a drug that will cause you to go through an actually physical withdrawal, you would experience the worst possible feeling you could imagine, you feel like your dying, you get hot & cold flashes, you starting throwing up violently, you get diarrhea, ever muscle in your body hurts and cramps up, you feel like you have this haze over your brain, the light hurts your eyes, like I said you feel like your going to die. I had a friend that was a heroin user that was arrested and put in county jail, on the 3rd day he couldn't take the withdrawals anymore and hung himself to death, I'm personally a recovering heroin user and I can tell you that I've come close to doing the same when I was going through bad withdrawals if I went a day or two and couldn't get any. See with drugs like crack & meth you get a phycological withdrawal but no real physical withdrawal. With crack & meth you could decide to go a day or two without using, but with heroin if you don't use for around 12 hours your gonna start feeling the withdrawal coming on. As for smoking ingestion vs. IV ingestion to make it more appealing, most user don't start out injecting, almost everyone I knew that used heroin started snorting it for the first few years of use, then move on to injecting. Also to say that any idiot with a kitchen can make meth is way off, to make meth is a very complex recipe and uses alot chemistry, I've never done it, but I know it's quite dangerous and difficult to make. As for saying that crack and meth are more debilitating and provoke their users into more frequent episodes of use is something I also have to disagree with, as I stated earlier, with heroin you have to use everyday or your gonna be hurting real bad, but with crack & meth you can say go a day or two and not use with no physical withdrawal. As I stated in the beginning of the post, these are all very evil substances and should be avoided at all cost.
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Trax,
Glad to hear you kicked it. I don't mean to say in any way that Heroin is not also an evil animal. Smoking cocaine vs snorting it is one of the crucial reasons why Crack is so much more dangerous than powdered cocaine. I guess I'm just saying that they're different in nature, and bad for their own reasons.
I'd really love to see my tax dollars spent in treatment of these problems instead of on arresting Marijuana users.
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Originally posted by 68Hawk
I'd really love to see my tax dollars spent in treatment of these problems instead of on arresting Marijuana users.
Until drug addiction is treated in this country as a sickness instead of a criminal offense, that will never happen.
ack-ack
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drug dealers support terrorists? absurd...
unless you consider organized crime to be terrorism.
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Originally posted by trax1
I have to disagree with you, even though they are all very evil substances and should all be avoided at all cost, I have to say heroin is the worst of the 3. Heroin is a drug that will cause you to go through an actually physical withdrawal, you would experience the worst possible feeling you could imagine, you feel like your dying, you get hot & cold flashes, you starting throwing up violently, you get diarrhea, ever muscle in your body hurts and cramps up, you feel like you have this haze over your brain, the light hurts your eyes, like I said you feel like your going to die. I had a friend that was a heroin user that was arrested and put in county jail, on the 3rd day he couldn't take the withdrawals anymore and hung himself to death, I'm personally a recovering heroin user and I can tell you that I've come close to doing the same when I was going through bad withdrawals if I went a day or two and couldn't get any. See with drugs like crack & meth you get a phycological withdrawal but no real physical withdrawal. With crack & meth you could decide to go a day or two without using, but with heroin if you don't use for around 12 hours your gonna start feeling the withdrawal coming on. As for smoking ingestion vs. IV ingestion to make it more appealing, most user don't start out injecting, almost everyone I knew that used heroin started snorting it for the first few years of use, then move on to injecting. Also to say that any idiot with a kitchen can make meth is way off, to make meth is a very complex recipe and uses alot chemistry, I've never done it, but I know it's quite dangerous and difficult to make. As for saying that crack and meth are more debilitating and provoke their users into more frequent episodes of use is something I also have to disagree with, as I stated earlier, with heroin you have to use everyday or your gonna be hurting real bad, but with crack & meth you can say go a day or two and not use with no physical withdrawal. As I stated in the beginning of the post, these are all very evil substances and should be avoided at all cost.
Experts say that quitting tabbacco is way harder than smack.
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Originally posted by PanzerIV
maybe you and all the idiots here live under rocks but mind altering substances(illegal drugs) harm you whether you like that it harms you or not!
Our nation has made these substances illegal to protect us, not to be mean or so Bush can have it all to himself.
I don't smoke pot, makes me sillier then i already am,,,,,,,,but,,um, are you kidding?:huh
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
Experts say that quitting tabbacco is way harder than smack.
most of these experts are dorks with no clue what they're talking about, as proven by the dweebs that wrote the reports that bucky has been trying to force us to believe.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
most of these experts are dorks with no clue what they're talking about, as proven by the dweebs that wrote the reports that bucky has been trying to force us to believe.
Lol...but we are to believe you Expert opinion........
riiiiiiiiiiiiight:rofl :rofl
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biggles.. I wish that you had the same opinion.. that you should have the right to choose... about other laws like handguns and seatbelts and helmets and a myriad of other nanny laws... hell... wish we all did.
trax... You have a distorted view of heroin like all heroin addicts. I used it for a month straight and had no real problem dropping it.. some withdrawl of course.. Heroin, morphine laudnum.. all legal here till fairly recently.. I say there is a higher or the same percentage of addicts now than when it was legal.
I am not willing to give up my freedoms to coddle addicts. That is what you want.. you want mommy to protect you from yourself.. but.. you don't mind flushing everyones right to choose down the toilet to get it.
Most people I seen try heroin hated it.. they didn't like throwing up and felling like their brain was wrapped in cotton.. as an addict I was always surprised back then when people would try drugs I loved and they didn't agree. they hated em.
I hate pot...smoking it makes you stupid and dull. It makes you hungry and paranoid and useless. If I have to compete at anything short of an eating contest... I hope my opponents are pot heads. I won't work beside one and I won't share the road with em.
I will never vote to take away anyones right to use it or any other drug tho.
It simply is none of my business. If you can't control your addiction then that really is your problem... when you can't get your drug and steal from me then it becomes my problem... when you hide your addiction it becomes everyones problem.
sheesh... let people choose the risk they want in life.
lazs
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
i'm 18, i've smoked for a few years.......................
also, being an 18 yr old, i drink a fa...........................
Originally posted by Major Biggles
most of these experts are dorks with no clue what they're talking about, as proven by the dweebs that wrote the reports that bucky has been trying to force us to believe.
Biggles, you seem like a decent enough guy, and I'm sorry if this offends you but, you're hardly in a position, at 18 whole years old, to be considered an expert on anything. Again, sorry. It's not, however, that I disagree with your position on this issue, just some of your arguments. You come off as a bit crass.
Myself, I say legalize pot. I still wouldn't use it though. The last time I did was before you were born and I don't miss it a bit. However, I don't want to step on the toes of those that wish to partake in a little smoke.
I do think that, like any other drug, its overuse could have detrimental effects. Not so much to the users health, but their productivity in society. Though, no more so than any other legal drug, such as alcohol as you like to point out. Pot heads and alcoholics, or for that matter, any addict has their usefulness limited by the "monkey" on their back, and none can ever achieve their full potential. Note that I'm not talking about casual users here, but bona-fide addicts. You may argue that pot isn't physically addictive, fine, I don't disagree. I walked away from it one day after having smoked probably more than my fair share for the time period i used it. But I have known people that, for whatever reason, all they could think about was getting stoned.
Education on moderation, I believe, is the key here. Our country likes to put things that our "nanny" govt. thinks are "impure" out of sight and reach of the population, and then wonders why, upon turning 21, otherwise sound thinking people go on all night drinking sprees. I say if your old enough to handle a motor vehicle, vote, and die for your country, then by all means, drink (or smoke) responsibly. I also think if your a parent and would like to let your child sample (note that I said sample, not indulge in) a small glass of wine or beer with dinner, then so be it.
As far as terrorism is concerned, I believe some cartels have terrorist connections. I don't think that Old Man Hippie down the road who grows his own and will sell you a few ounces is a threat to national security. He's providing a service, nothing more.
BUT, the gov didn't ask me, so its still illegal.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Until drug addiction is treated in this country as a sickness instead of a criminal offense, that will never happen.
ack-ack
There is no money in legal drugs for contractors, police dept's, FBI, ATF, DEA and so on. Contractors make a bunch of money because they sell all the cool toys to the police dept's and so on. Then of course the DEA, police Dept's and so on all get bigger budgets because of drugs.
Not to mention that sates make a fortune on confiscated money, houses , cars and everything else under the sun. Drugs is big money on both sides of the fence, the user is for the most part irrelevant to both sides involved.
Besides that you think HMO's would want to start paying for drug treatment? That would probably be bad for business..
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Besides that you think HMO's would want to start paying for drug treatment? That would probably be bad for business..
I've heard a lot of bad things being implied in regards to HMO's. We have our health coverage through and HMO, Kaiser Permanente, and have never had any issues with them.
In fact, I just had a sleep study done for Sleep Apnea. The doctor had no issues at all with sending me in for the sleep study. Their doctors, technicians and therapists are superb imo.
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Originally posted by lazs2
biggles.. I wish that you had the same opinion.. that you should have the right to choose... about other laws like handguns and seatbelts and helmets and a myriad of other nanny laws... hell... wish we all did.
trax... You have a distorted view of heroin like all heroin addicts. I used it for a month straight and had no real problem dropping it.. some withdrawl of course.. Heroin, morphine laudnum.. all legal here till fairly recently.. I say there is a higher or the same percentage of addicts now than when it was legal.
I am not willing to give up my freedoms to coddle addicts. That is what you want.. you want mommy to protect you from yourself.. but.. you don't mind flushing everyones right to choose down the toilet to get it.
Most people I seen try heroin hated it.. they didn't like throwing up and felling like their brain was wrapped in cotton.. as an addict I was always surprised back then when people would try drugs I loved and they didn't agree. they hated em.
I hate pot...smoking it makes you stupid and dull. It makes you hungry and paranoid and useless. If I have to compete at anything short of an eating contest... I hope my opponents are pot heads. I won't work beside one and I won't share the road with em.
I will never vote to take away anyones right to use it or any other drug tho.
It simply is none of my business. If you can't control your addiction then that really is your problem... when you can't get your drug and steal from me then it becomes my problem... when you hide your addiction it becomes everyones problem.
sheesh... let people choose the risk they want in life.
lazs
Ok I think your just insane, you might have used heroin for a month and had no problem kicking it, but trust me when you've been on it for years it gets a little harder to kick, the withdrawals are 100 times worst. Making it legal would be the worst thing the government could ever do, trust me you would atleast see alot more people dying from it. When you've been on it for years it's extremely difficult to kick and people do need help getting off it. How would you have your rights taking away to coddle addicts? Because the government says you can't use it? Well lemme tell ya in this case the government is right to take away your right to use drugs like heroin, coke, meth and so on, these things destroy lives and have nothing good about them. When you start losing people you love to drug use then maybe you'll see and understand what I'm saying. These drugs are pure evil and when your a slave to them you'll do anything and hurt anyone to get it. You will never convince me or just about anyone else that it would be a good idea to legalize these drugs. How can you be so sure that if it was legal that there would be no rise in the number of users? You can't, and it's not worth the risk to find out, even if only one person would become addicted and or die from it thats one too many and not worth it. Like I said most of us that were addicted to these drugs needed help getting off them, and I guess you'll never understand that until your a full blown addict to them, and using heroin for a month isn't the same as using it for years, trust me the withdrawals are 100 times worst and makes it that much harder to quit. If that help to get off it comes from the government arresting me then I appreciate it because it saved my life.
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Originally posted by crockett
that you think HMO's would want to start paying for drug treatment? That would probably be bad for business..
Actually most HMO's do pay for drug treatment. I know because they paid for my drug treatment.
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Who's winning so far?
The stoners or the other side?
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Anybody, that thinks this country would be a safer place if they legalized pot is obviously using too much of their product.
What exactly is the "danger" in selling weed cigarettes at 7-11? I promise they wont jump off the shelf, into your pocket and force you to smoke them.
734,000 people will be arrested related to weed this year... without over half a million weed arrests to worry about, the police will obviously have time for more important matters...
Sounds like making pot legal has a better chance of making us safer.
46% of Americans polled by Zogby in 2006 support making marijuana legal, regulated like alcohol and gambling. They must all be smoking too much, or are aware if made legal, dangerous gangs of wild bud thugs wont be roaming the streets forcing people to smoke.
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6838
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quote:
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Think about it...Do you really NEED pot??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a valid point...
If after reading the pros and cons of this fine thread....
And FINALLY COME TO YOUR SENSES....
And you decide that you are GOING TO GIVE UP smoking weed....
.....ganja, Maui Wowie, Alaskan Thunder, Panama Red, Thai Stick, Hippie Lettuce, Amsterdam Sticky Red Fingers.....MARIJUANA...then--
Email me, and I will provide you with a street address at which PROPER DISPOSAL of this EVIL SUBSTANCE can be done.
SAVE YOUSELVES!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
(I STILL BET that someone will ACTALLY think I am SERIOUS :confused: )
68ROX
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Originally posted by FBBone
Biggles, you seem like a decent enough guy, and I'm sorry if this offends you but, you're hardly in a position, at 18 whole years old, to be considered an expert on anything. Again, sorry. It's not, however, that I disagree with your position on this issue, just some of your arguments. You come off as a bit crass.
Myself, I say legalize pot. I still wouldn't use it though. The last time I did was before you were born and I don't miss it a bit. However, I don't want to step on the toes of those that wish to partake in a little smoke.
I do think that, like any other drug, its overuse could have detrimental effects. Not so much to the users health, but their productivity in society. Though, no more so than any other legal drug, such as alcohol as you like to point out. Pot heads and alcoholics, or for that matter, any addict has their usefulness limited by the "monkey" on their back, and none can ever achieve their full potential. Note that I'm not talking about casual users here, but bona-fide addicts. You may argue that pot isn't physically addictive, fine, I don't disagree. I walked away from it one day after having smoked probably more than my fair share for the time period i used it. But I have known people that, for whatever reason, all they could think about was getting stoned.
Education on moderation, I believe, is the key here. Our country likes to put things that our "nanny" govt. thinks are "impure" out of sight and reach of the population, and then wonders why, upon turning 21, otherwise sound thinking people go on all night drinking sprees. I say if your old enough to handle a motor vehicle, vote, and die for your country, then by all means, drink (or smoke) responsibly. I also think if your a parent and would like to let your child sample (note that I said sample, not indulge in) a small glass of wine or beer with dinner, then so be it.
As far as terrorism is concerned, I believe some cartels have terrorist connections. I don't think that Old Man Hippie down the road who grows his own and will sell you a few ounces is a threat to national security. He's providing a service, nothing more.
BUT, the gov didn't ask me, so its still illegal.
you're right, i'm certainly not the wisest guy, never claimed to be. doesn't change the fact though, that weed isn't as dangerous as booze or tobacco, and doesn't cause as big an effect on people's minds as booze, which are the main grounds for it being banned. here in the UK that bastages are even trying to reclassify it to class B instead of C, which would make it totally illegal, just being caught witha small personal supply would get you in the can for 7 years, which is frickin rediculous.
@ lazs, the thing with guns is (and don't get me wrong, i love shooting, and own a lot of things like crossbows and air rifles), that they're a deadly weapon. i'm more comfortable knowing that there aren't loads of guys out there able to buy a gun freely, than knowing that i have a gun to fend them off the guys who can get guns easily.
it's tough though, i agree that people should have freedom to do what they like, but that gives crazies the 'right' to by a lethal weapon. i'd rather have some of my rights infringed by gun control than my right to live, the most important right of all, taken away from me by a crack addict off the street, looking to steal shizzle from my house.
guns and drugs are different. i love guns, they're great fun, and it's important to know that you will be able to protect your family if needed, but i think it's wiser to have no guns at all. there will still be gun crime, and there still is, but there are something like an average of 50 gun deaths here to the US's 10,000 or something. i think that's a price worth paying.
a bit of dope never hurt anyone, a gun is designed to hurt them.
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Pot supports terrorism eh?
Well considering most of the pot smokers I know of obtain their stash locally from local growers. Some of which I know. I dont see how. LOL
In your average neighborhood I'd almost be willing ot bet that within a 1 mile radius there is at least 3-4 people growing stuff better then anything thats imported and thats where most of the supply comes from.
Personally I am starting to think that all this "if you do this you support terrorism. or if you do that the terrorists win. the Gov keeps spewing out. they are crying wolf and going to the well way too often.
But if you wanna say that it can also be said. If you smoke tobacco products, Drink alcohol, or purchace any number of products who's hands can be traced to Washington lobbyests with their hands in government officials pockets you are supporting corruption.
Now if they said Coke, Crank, Heroin (in particular) or any number of chemical type drugs I might buy into it.
Pot.....
Not so much
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biggles...ah... I see.. you want choice no matter how dangerous or expensive to society so long as it is something you like but want to limit choice in other people... thanks a bunch... stay in your own country till you get a better attitude on freedom. I say your pot is more dangerous to me than my neighbor having a gun... if you injure someone while on pot you should be punished.. If someone injures another with a gun... he should be punished.. other than that.. you should simply have the right to choose pot or a firearm.
My safe is full of firearms and you are more of a danger driving around loaded than I am out plinking with firearms. Why is that so hard for busybodies of all stripes to understand?
trax.. I don't know how many times I have to say it... you were an addict and it was illegal. You are now to the point where you are thanking the government for throwing you in jail and forcing you to do what you should have done for yourself.
I have been around heroin addicts.. they are scum. All it takes if for them to not get their fix and every moral they ever had is out the window. People see that and don't want to be that. There are no fewer addicts now than there were when drugs were legal (% wise).
heroin addicts are useless. It is obvious to anyone who is around em too... when it was legal people looked at em with disgust (as they should) and their example kept others from even trying it.
Only difference is.. because you want the government to coddle you and protect you from yourself... we have addicts stealing and destroying and killing to get their fix. they turn into criminals because they can't pay for their habit.
because of addicts and people like you who want to coddle them by protecting them from themselves... we have twice as many police as we need and still have twice as much crime as we would have had with $5 a pound heroin or crank or pot or whatever.
personaly... I would just rather that the addicts use as much free drugs as they want.. if they want to kill themselves it is not my problem... I sure don't want to give up my freedom to protect em.
And guess what.. if you really want to... you can still go to prison and get all "poor me" in there.. all ya gotta do is do the stupid crap loadies do and hurt someone.
I was an addict. I got lucky and I got help. I certainly don't need the government to tell me it was a bad thing.
lazs
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Originally posted by wetrat
Panzer, EVERYTHING causes cancer. The stuff that makes shampoo bubbly? Yeah, carcinogen. Ditto for toothpaste. Metal tooth fillings? Yeah, they cause cancer too. Justifying something being illegal with a *slight* increase in cancer risk (an undocumented, unproven one at that) is nonsense.
Don't forget the "Flame Broiled Burger". Yes, your BK Whopper, or your own backyard grill burgers have a risk of causing cancer.
As wetrat stated, Everything causes cancer.
Oz
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Originally posted by ozrocker
Don't forget the "Flame Broiled Burger". Yes, your BK Whopper, or your own backyard grill burgers have a risk of causing cancer.
As wetrat stated, Everything causes cancer.
Oz
Lets not forget the sun.
Or if you live near a city. The air you breathe places you at significantly higher risk too
OUTLAW THEM! OUTLAW THEM BOTH!
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
you're right, i'm certainly not the wisest guy, never claimed to be. doesn't change the fact though, that weed isn't as dangerous as booze or tobacco, and doesn't cause as big an effect on people's minds as booze, which are the main grounds for it being banned. here in the UK that bastages are even trying to reclassify it to class B instead of C, which would make it totally illegal, just being caught witha small personal supply would get you in the can for 7 years, which is frickin rediculous.
I'm glad you didn't take it personally, and again, I agree with you on these points.
Originally posted by Major Biggles
it's tough though, i agree that people should have freedom to do what they like, but that gives crazies the 'right' to by a lethal weapon. i'd rather have some of my rights infringed by gun control than my right to live, the most important right of all, taken away from me by a crack addict off the street, looking to steal shizzle from my house.
Your argument falls apart here. Remember, there are people on these boards and in your government that think people that would use weed are "crazies". You don't want someone else to make your decisions for you but you are quick to make someone else's for them. Rights are rights, whether its your right to smoke dope, or my right to pack heat. To trample on ones only invites yours to be trampled. Keep in mind that by the time they come after the things that YOU like, it's already too late.
Originally posted by Major Biggles
guns and drugs are different. i love guns, they're great fun, and it's important to know that you will be able to protect your family if needed, but i think it's wiser to have no guns at all. there will still be gun crime, and there still is, but there are something like an average of 50 gun deaths here to the US's 10,000 or something. i think that's a price worth paying.
a bit of dope never hurt anyone, a gun is designed to hurt them.
To this I will say, the one time I ever had an intruder enter my home, he didn't have a gun. He had a tire iron and about a 75 pound weight advantage on me. I had a gun, he left and was captured half a block away. I don't think his lack of a firearm would have prevented him from pummeling me that night either. At his trial he was informed by the judge how "lucky he was to be able to face me (the judge) in a court of law rather than face his creator." I'd rather have the right to own a firearm, thank you. :aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
trax.. I don't know how many times I have to say it... you were an addict and it was illegal. You are now to the point where you are thanking the government for throwing you in jail and forcing you to do what you should have done for yourself.
I have been around heroin addicts.. they are scum. All it takes if for them to not get their fix and every moral they ever had is out the window. People see that and don't want to be that. There are no fewer addicts now than there were when drugs were legal (% wise).
heroin addicts are useless. It is obvious to anyone who is around em too... when it was legal people looked at em with disgust (as they should) and their example kept others from even trying it.
Only difference is.. because you want the government to coddle you and protect you from yourself... we have addicts stealing and destroying and killing to get their fix. they turn into criminals because they can't pay for their habit.
because of addicts and people like you who want to coddle them by protecting them from themselves... we have twice as many police as we need and still have twice as much crime as we would have had with $5 a pound heroin or crank or pot or whatever.
personaly... I would just rather that the addicts use as much free drugs as they want.. if they want to kill themselves it is not my problem... I sure don't want to give up my freedom to protect em.
And guess what.. if you really want to... you can still go to prison and get all "poor me" in there.. all ya gotta do is do the stupid crap loadies do and hurt someone.
I was an addict. I got lucky and I got help. I certainly don't need the government to tell me it was a bad thing.
lazs
Well lazs it's great to see how much you care for your fellow human beings. I highly doubt that if drugs like coke meth and heroin were made legal you wouldn't see any increase in use, and guess what, you'd also see an increase in deaths from overdoses if it were made cheap, but I guess that wouldn't bother you because you've made it clear you have no compassion for your fellow human beings even if he is addicted to a drug. You know I never wanted to become a heroin addict, I was in a bad car wreck 10 years ago that left me in a wheelchair and with horrible nerve pain, I was started out on vicodin but your body builds up a tolerance so eventually I was on oxycontin, but after awhile that was helping ethier, so one day a friend of mine who saw how much pain I was in suggested I try heroin for it, I was so tired of being in pain all the time that I tried it and it helped, over time I became addicted to it. And whats wrong with the government helping people get off drugs, but I guess again you dont care about other people and think that if you get addicted to drugs that no one should care about you and that person might as well just die. You know I feel sorry for someone like you, myself I cant just not care about my fellow human beings no matter what they've done or who they are. I guess you know more about it then the people in charge of this country too, like all our drug and crime problems would be solved if we just made all drugs cheap and legal.
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Originally posted by FBBone
To this I will say, the one time I ever had an intruder enter my home, he didn't have a gun. He had a tire iron and about a 75 pound weight advantage on me. I had a gun, he left and was captured half a block away. I don't think his lack of a firearm would have prevented him from pummeling me that night either. At his trial he was informed by the judge how "lucky he was to be able to face me (the judge) in a court of law rather than face his creator." I'd rather have the right to own a firearm, thank you. :aok
yeah, you and lazs are both right, that it is important to be able to protect yourself.
i personally would have no probs with my neighbours having guns. i'm on both sides of the fence really. i personally would like to be able to own a firearm, but at the same time, i don't want to see a gun in the wrong person's hands, that means innocent lives...
i would be very happy to see the legalisation of all firearms here in the UK, provided that serious background checks were made first. i'm not anti-firearm, but i don't like the american system of being able to walk into any gunshop and walk out 5 mins later with a deadly weapon, without any proper checks.
if there was a serious and effective, yet not invasive gun control policy here, i would LOVE to see guns made totally legal here. i always thought it was quite surreal though, when i went into a range in vegas, and i was given a loaded gun, with more ammo, over the counter just like that, simply by handing over 20 bucks and my passport as a deposit. suppose i was some total psycho? the guys were all packing, and i'd be dead pretty quickly, but i could have killed anyone i wanted if i was quick enough.
surely that's a bit crazy? it's important that people don't have their rights infringed, and it's important to be able to protect yourself, but surely the right of another innocent person to live is far more important?
like i said, i would be all for guns here, infact i personally would love it, but there would need to be a rigid screening process. do you think that is stupid? do you really think that it is more important to be able to buy a gun whenever the hell you feel like it lazs, than it is for someone else to live?
think how many innocent lives could be spared in america if you guys would calm down about your 2 amendment rights for 5 minutes, while the store clerk ran a background check on a government network, with all the history of violence, mental health etc.
you'd have to wait a few minutes longer to buy a gun, perhaps now 20 minutes instead of 10-15, but thousands of lives would be saved each year.
responsible people can still get their guns, but guns get into the wrong hands far less, and thankfully, you won't need to use your gun to kill quite so often. would you be against that? think of how many columbine/VT style shootings that system would prevent.
i'm not anti-gun, but i'm opposed to the american system. there needs to be more care taken.
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I was taking the kids and the gf's nephews on a tour of downtown Memphis. We rode the trollies, walked down Beale street and then went to the river(Mississippi). There is a park near the old Tennessee Arkansas bridge and a walkway across the bridge. I was going to let them walk across the bridge until we got on the Arkansas side so they could tell people they walked to Arkansas. On the way back across the bridge, I found a .38 semi laying next to the concrete barrier. I called the Memphis police when I got home and eventually an officer showed up at my door. He ran the gun and it came up clean. He then said, "Well, do you want it?" I said yeah, I'll take it. So now I own another gun! hee hee:aok this happened Friday the 13th..........(insert twilight zone theme music)!
:noid
Mark
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I was taking the kids and the gf's nephews on a tour of downtown Memphis. We rode the trollies, walked down Beale street and then went to the river(Mississippi). There is a park near the old Tennessee Arkansas bridge and a walkway across the bridge. I was going to let them walk across the bridge until we got on the Arkansas side so they could tell people they walked to Arkansas. On the way back across the bridge, I found a .38 semi laying next to the concrete barrier. I called the Memphis police when I got home and eventually an officer showed up at my door. He ran the gun and it came up clean. He then said, "Well, do you want it?" I said yeah, I'll take it. So now I own another gun! hee hee:aok this happened Friday the 13th..........(insert twilight zone theme music)!
:noid
Mark
Damn you lucky MF'er. I'm lucky if I find a dollar on the ground and you find .38, and get to keep it.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
i would be very happy to see the legalisation of all firearms here in the UK, provided that serious background checks were made first. i'm not anti-firearm, but i don't like the american system of being able to walk into any gunshop and walk out 5 mins later with a deadly weapon, without any proper checks.
Thats not entirely true, I'm pretty sure most states here do a back ground check before you can purchase a firearm, there's a bill called "The Brady Bill" named after the Secret Service agent that was shot in the head on the assassination attempt on President Reagan's life, this bill requires a mandatory 2-30 day(depending on your state) waiting period for a proper back ground check, there are some states that have no waiting period though.
you can see what the waiting period is in particapating states here
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=waitxstate
EDIT:Actually I just was looking at that website for the Brady Bill and the way I read it it looks like every state does have ethier a Federal or State background check before purchasing a firearm. Not all have a waiting period, but all do some kind of background check.
Also are you saying that in Europe were you are that you can't own a firearm?
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
yeah, you and lazs are both right, that it is important to be able to protect yourself.
i personally would have no probs with my neighbours having guns. i'm on both sides of the fence really. i personally would like to be able to own a firearm, but at the same time, i don't want to see a gun in the wrong person's hands, that means innocent lives...
i would be very happy to see the legalisation of all firearms here in the UK, provided that serious background checks were made first. i'm not anti-firearm, but i don't like the american system of being able to walk into any gunshop and walk out 5 mins later with a deadly weapon, without any proper checks.
if there was a serious and effective, yet not invasive gun control policy here, i would LOVE to see guns made totally legal here. i always thought it was quite surreal though, when i went into a range in vegas, and i was given a loaded gun, with more ammo, over the counter just like that, simply by handing over 20 bucks and my passport as a deposit. suppose i was some total psycho? the guys were all packing, and i'd be dead pretty quickly, but i could have killed anyone i wanted if i was quick enough.
surely that's a bit crazy? it's important that people don't have their rights infringed, and it's important to be able to protect yourself, but surely the right of another innocent person to live is far more important?
like i said, i would be all for guns here, infact i personally would love it, but there would need to be a rigid screening process. do you think that is stupid? do you really think that it is more important to be able to buy a gun whenever the hell you feel like it lazs, than it is for someone else to live?
think how many innocent lives could be spared in america if you guys would calm down about your 2 amendment rights for 5 minutes, while the store clerk ran a background check on a government network, with all the history of violence, mental health etc.
you'd have to wait a few minutes longer to buy a gun, perhaps now 20 minutes instead of 10-15, but thousands of lives would be saved each year.
responsible people can still get their guns, but guns get into the wrong hands far less, and thankfully, you won't need to use your gun to kill quite so often. would you be against that? think of how many columbine/VT style shootings that system would prevent.
i'm not anti-gun, but i'm opposed to the american system. there needs to be more care taken.
What you have described has already been passed into law and happens daily here. You can go to a range and rent a firearm without using the instant check system, but your correct in your assumption that you wouldn't get far if you misused the weapon.
I can handle my neighbors having guns. I decided to live my life assuming the guy out to harm me is armed and dangerous. This doesn't bother me in the least until some nanny senator tries to take away my right to defend myself. My situation is proof that a perp doesn't need to be shot in the course of self defense and just the presence of the gun can be a deterrent. Not in all instances, but some.
I wish both our countries leaders would stop trying to keep us safe from ourselves, but I'd guess thats a long way from happening.
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trax... try to make paragraphs so that it is easier to read your post but...
the gist of it is that you are using the old addict whine of "its not my fault the docs hooked me" I was on morphine for a week then some synthetic for two months then any pain pill I wanted for 2 years because I had a leg reattached after a wreck along with a broken back.
I am not unique.. plenty of folks get hurt and get meds and then never turn into addicts... and so what if they do? it is their choice. I would simply prefer that they kill themselves without ripping the stereo out of my car and doing $2000 damage to get $1 worth of drugs..
Lynx... I think you are thinking fairly clearly even with all the propoganda you get in your country and lack of experiance.
I would answer one of your questions... "how many innocent lives would be saved.."
None really. maybe a few accidents that are legit... maybe a few ghetto dwellers who get caught in the spray... that is about it. Nothing compared to people who die from tripping in their living room or bath.
How can that be? well... suicide is gonna happen gun or not. Homicide is probly gonna happen gun or not. two minorities cause about 60% of all homicides.. these are mostly drug related.. make the drugs legal and a lot of these go away... or maybe they just get into some other crime.. they are pretty much feral at this point but.....
point is.. in America... guns save lives.. our population is what it is. the guns didn't make em feral. because it is what it is.. we use guns 1.5 or more million times a year to stop bad people from doing bad things... if only a fraction of those times would have resulted in death then we are at a net plus....especially if you are not one of the feral humans.. one of the zombies.
Another point is to simply look at your own country. You had no higher murder rate when you were allowed to have guns in the 1900's and carry them than you do now.
Your rate will go up tho... it will start to mimic ours because... no matter what you do... your minorities will go feral... just like ours.. you are simply behind the curve due to your less open immigration and... well... being a tiny little island and all with no borders.
The difference will be that you simply wont be able to defend yourself. Your cops are worthless for that just as ours are.
lazs
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Thank you for proving my point with that last post Lazs. You obvious think there are people that could go kill themselves and you wouldn't care in the least, your care for your fellow man is heart warming.
And as for my addiction I take full responsibility for it, I was just stating that it's not like I decided one day that I wanted to use heroin and be an addict. And again with your statement that "plenty of folks get hurt and get meds and then never turn into addicts... and so what if they do? it is their choice. I would simply prefer that they kill themselves without ripping the stereo out of my car and doing $2000 damage to get $1 worth of drugs" shows just how much you care about your fellow man, and really show just what kind of person you are. As I stated before, I feel sorry for you Lazs.
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I care enough about my fellow man to let them have choices in their life which is more than I can say for you. You are happy letting them risk their lives on a daily basis in an extremely dangerous lifestyle with almost no chance to get out... ruined by crime and ruined by a system you support.
I allow them to make choices and go in with their eyes open.. you want it all hidden... you are the one who doesn't care. Your selfishness probly got you into the mess in the first place and it will probly be your excuse to go back.
most heroin addicts do you know... they come up with an excuse.. "poor me" cat died.. whatever. they are clean.. that part is easy... they simply choose... law or no law.. to go back to the scum bag life they led. they don't mind stealing and destroying others lives to do it either... they make that decision when they are stone cold sober.. and... they have no problem getting loaded again just as before.. so long as they can steal enough money to pay.
yeah... its me that is the cold hearted one... right.. I never met a junkie who cared about his fellow man unless there was something in it for him. A junkie can't be trusted even when he is clean... not for at least ten years... maybe more.
You want to lecture me on "caring"? tell it to someone who doesn't know better.. do the junkie con on someone else. I seen it enough already and am not interested.
sorry if you are one of the few who is different but... from your posts.. I can't see it. Looks just like deja vu... well.... all over again.
lazs
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trax, you can get shotguns, rifles etc here, but you need to apply for a liscense, which can take a while to come. pistols are totally illegal here, because they're a deadly concealable weapon.
i would love to be able to own a handgun, but, that's the law, and if it saves lives, we're quite happy with that here in the UK. the only real point in a handgun is to kill. if you wanna shoot stuff properly, rifles and shotguns are totally fine, but you need to get a permit which can take up to a few months, and your guns and ammo need to be kept in a secure gun cabinet.
most farmers and peeps out in the country have several guns. rifles and shotguns actually have a proper purpose. handguns have just one useless one, killing people, that's why the law is like that in the UK. we're quite happy with it.
you guys seem to be happy with your laws too, and so if we're both happy, i don't see why you guys have a problem with people who don't really want loads of gun toting wackos out on the street.
it's a silly argument because both sides are right. but if we're all happy, why is there a problem?
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Bucky you stated somthing to the effect that U think long term use of pot affects a persons motor skillz. I think you might be surprised how many AH pilots that can easily wax you are very long term smokers....... reflexes & motorskills doin just fine!
Unfortunately I doubt it will ever be legalized simply because many people can grow for themselves, all they would ever need, which would not generate ANY taxes.
Poppyfields in afghanistan-
Prolly owned by a wealthy Afi civilian and used to make bagels, and muffins(old roll eyes)
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
trax, you can get shotguns, rifles etc here, but you need to apply for a liscense, which can take a while to come. pistols are totally illegal here, because they're a deadly concealable weapon.
i would love to be able to own a handgun, but, that's the law, and if it saves lives, we're quite happy with that here in the UK. the only real point in a handgun is to kill. if you wanna shoot stuff properly, rifles and shotguns are totally fine, but you need to get a permit which can take up to a few months, and your guns and ammo need to be kept in a secure gun cabinet.
most farmers and peeps out in the country have several guns. rifles and shotguns actually have a proper purpose. handguns have just one useless one, killing people, that's why the law is like that in the UK. we're quite happy with it.
you guys seem to be happy with your laws too, and so if we're both happy, i don't see why you guys have a problem with people who don't really want loads of gun toting wackos out on the street.
it's a silly argument because both sides are right. but if we're all happy, why is there a problem?
I wasn't saying that I had any problem with our or your gun laws, I was just putting out the info that here in the states they do do a back ground check on you if you want a hang gun. I agree that a hand gun has only one purpose and thats to kill people, this is one of the reasons you guys have such a low homicide rate. I would gladly trade in my rights to own a hand gun if we could get a homicide rate comparable to yours, I do love to use hand guns at the shooting range, especially since a car accident I was in left me unable to use my right arm, so the only guns I can really shoot are hand guns, but I would give that up and be happy with only being able to own rifles & shotguns to defend my home if it meant that fewer fellow Americans would lose there life's due to hand gun violence. I feel that if it saved even just one innocent life it would be worth it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I care enough about my fellow man to let them have choices in their life which is more than I can say for you. You are happy letting them risk their lives on a daily basis in an extremely dangerous lifestyle with almost no chance to get out... ruined by crime and ruined by a system you support.
I allow them to make choices and go in with their eyes open.. you want it all hidden... you are the one who doesn't care. Your selfishness probly got you into the mess in the first place and it will probly be your excuse to go back.
most heroin addicts do you know... they come up with an excuse.. "poor me" cat died.. whatever. they are clean.. that part is easy... they simply choose... law or no law.. to go back to the scum bag life they led. they don't mind stealing and destroying others lives to do it either... they make that decision when they are stone cold sober.. and... they have no problem getting loaded again just as before.. so long as they can steal enough money to pay.
yeah... its me that is the cold hearted one... right.. I never met a junkie who cared about his fellow man unless there was something in it for him. A junkie can't be trusted even when he is clean... not for at least ten years... maybe more.
You want to lecture me on "caring"? tell it to someone who doesn't know better.. do the junkie con on someone else. I seen it enough already and am not interested.
sorry if you are one of the few who is different but... from your posts.. I can't see it. Looks just like deja vu... well.... all over again.
lazs
Are you really this insane or are you just putting on an act to start arguments?
Yeah your right letting them have as much of the drug as they want by making it legal and cheap so they end up overdosing would be the better way to go about this countries drug problem.
And where do you get this idea that if it were made legal there would be absolutely no increase in the number of users?
And to say that getting clean is the easy part, then you really have no idea what it's like to actually be addicted to a drug like heroin, coke, or meth and I really hope that you never do because I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. And to actually say to me that I will probably go back to using again shows just how much you care about your fellow man, thats just really evil man, really evil.
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i was really talking to lazs trax. you're quite reasonable, but to me it seems that lazs finds everyone against widespread handgun useage to be crazy.
lazs definitely seems fond of his shooter :D
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:rofl :rofl
I you think this game involves a "skill" in any way your off your rocker.
It's a game.....your not a real pilot if your "good" at it.
My friend and I used to play alot of nintendo64 007 and he was usually stoned off his *** but he would still kick my butt. Unfortunately though, that still doesn't mean he's a super spy.
:rofl :rofl
Priceless
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I you think this game involves a "skill" in any way your off your rocker.
Hand eye coordination is a skill! Sorry, bud!
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come on bucky, this game needs skill and experience, more than almost any other game i know of
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mmmmk:aok :rofl
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Originally posted by Bucky73
:rofl :rofl
I you think this game involves a "skill" in any way your off your rocker.
It's a game.....your not a real pilot if your "good" at it.
My friend and I used to play alot of nintendo64 007 and he was usually stoned off his *** but he would still kick my butt. Unfortunately though, that still doesn't mean he's a super spy.
:rofl :rofl
Priceless
GOLDENEYE was the best game i have ever played.We would have tournaments with that game.One was where you set up the whole map with Proximity mines(with the Ar-33 ofcourse) and the other players would come back into the room to try to get past the set up to get you.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
GOLDENEYE was the best game i have ever played.We would have tournaments with that game.One was where you set up the whole map with Proximity mines(with the Ar-33 ofcourse) and the other players would come back into the room to try to get past the set up to get you.
Absolutely...we would stay up all night playing that dang game.:lol
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Absolutely...we would stay up all night playing that dang game.:lol
Same here, I loved Goldeneye, that game was so much fun to play, especialy the 2 player mode where you have to kill each other.:)
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Being a former musician that spent a long time on the road, I can tell you I never seen anything good about any drug. I have lost friends and many people that I have known to drug abuse.
Pot Smoking is a gateway drug, it leads to using other drugs. No point arguing about this with me, I have seen the visible proof countless times over the years. I am tired of people who smoke pot being in grand denial of its' negative effects. I know peoplke I went to highschool with some 25 years ago who are potheads and still sitting on the same exact damn couch getting high like they did back then. Several of them I know have never even moved out of their parents homes!
I have no use for dopers, they are a drain on everyone around them, while the profits of their habit does support various drug/terror cartels.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Being a former musician that spent a long time on the road, I can tell you I never seen anything good about any drug. I have lost friends and many people that I have known to drug abuse.
Pot Smoking is a gateway drug, it leads to using other drugs. No point arguing about this with me, I have seen the visible proof countless times over the years. I am tired of people who smoke pot being in grand denial of its' negative effects. I know peoplke I went to highschool with some 25 years ago who are potheads and still sitting on the same exact damn couch getting high like they did back then. Several of them I know have never even moved out of their parents homes!
I have no use for dopers, they are a drain on everyone around them, while the profits of their habit does support various drug/terror cartels.
I think most of us just feel that if the government wants to allow drugs like alcohol legal then why not pot. If pot is a gateway drug, then alcohol is too. Personally I don't smoke pot, I use to but not anymore, but I still feel that it should be legal as it is less harmful then alcohol is. Now that doesn't mean that I think all drugs should be made legal, but as far as pot goes I think it should.
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I have no use for dopers, they are a drain on everyone around them, while the profits of their habit does support various drug/terror cartels. [/B]
Whats that guys name that owns Virgin INC.?:rofl
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Being a former musician that spent a long time on the road, I can tell you I never seen anything good about any drug. I have lost friends and many people that I have known to drug abuse.
Pot Smoking is a gateway drug, it leads to using other drugs. No point arguing about this with me, I have seen the visible proof countless times over the years. I am tired of people who smoke pot being in grand denial of its' negative effects. I know peoplke I went to highschool with some 25 years ago who are potheads and still sitting on the same exact damn couch getting high like they did back then. Several of them I know have never even moved out of their parents homes!
I have no use for dopers, they are a drain on everyone around them, while the profits of their habit does support various drug/terror cartels.
Are you sure it wasn't alcohol or cigarettes that was the gateway drug? I too am a musician, have been in the bars my whole life. Have seen many friends who just didn't have it in them to fight drugs. Most started with alcohol. As a matter of fact, as I remember, everyone of my friends that wasted their life in drugs started with cigarettes or alcohol. I have many friends that used to do drugs as well, some quit completely, some still do a little weed now and then. Most of the latter have went on to other things and have their life together and are successful. I have felt that if pot wasn't illegal, it wouldn't have the "gateway" drug fame. Usually once you go "illegal" to get pot, the guy also has some pills laying around he's trying to sell you or maybe some coke. I know for myself, I wanted to try drugs. I wanted to see what they were really like. I have never felt that marijuana was a bad drug. I occassionally partake of some on my vacation time, but if it is not there, then no big deal. Now the meth and cocaine and the hydrocodene, those are a different breed! Also, I really believe the addiction comes from the person, and not the drug. Some do drugs for a bit of fun, then they are done with them, while others never seem to be able to stop.
Mark
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trax and biggles I think that you are simply repeating good sounding but false myths... england never had a high homicide rate and no gun law ever reduced it. england does not have a low homicide rate due to it's gun laws.. no gun law ever changed it for the better or worse there. Even when all handguns and concealed carry were legal the homicide rate was low.
the other myth is that there is this huge pool of people out there that would be addicts if we... we what? didn't make it take em an hour or so to find any drug they wanted? All drugs were legal here for a very long time and there was no higher percentage of drug addicts than now. Making it illegal does not prevent people from becoming addicts.
Now, I know that those are two very good myths.. that more guns in a society makes for more homicide and suicide (forget japan) and the other myth that making drugs illegal prevents people from getting drugs so.. less addicts.
do some thinking instead and do some research. for biggles... you might want to read Joyce Malcoms book on guns and gun laws in england. Also study the crime rates and homicide rates in America where concealed carry (handguns) is allowed.
For trax.. there probly is no hope since he thinks everyone needs protecting from themselves. Truth is.. there are only a small percentage of people who have a deffect that causes them to become addicts and it remains constant no matter what the laws are.
I would just as soon they don't perpetuate a huge crime drain on society to get their fix.
lazs
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another myth I have seen here is that pot heads have good hand eye co-ordination.. proved because (presumably) the pot head can fly a cartoon plane in ah semi well.
first of all.. AH is not hand eye co-ordination in any real sense... second... they would do better without the pot... it is not my "opinion" it is fact... numerous studies of pot heads on driving obstacle courses have been done... they are pitiful.. they are dangerous.. I want em jailed if they get behind the wheel.
As an addict and drunk.. I used to say that blind drunk I could drive better than most.. that was true to a tiny bit... if I was in just the right state of drunk...enough to not be sick but not so much that I was seeing double... and of course.. there is the degree thing... I don't have to be much of a driver to outdrive most people on the road today. most of em should be limited to daytime driving at no more than 35 mph. they should have rotating beacons on their roofs so that people can spot em eaiser.
That does not mean that these buffoons would be any better on the stupid weed. They would be worse and stupid too.
I don't know who is more dangerous and boring to be around... a drunk or a pothead behind the wheel but it is a close thing.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the other myth is that there is this huge pool of people out there that would be addicts if we... we what? didn't make it take em an hour or so to find any drug they wanted? All drugs were legal here for a very long time and there was no higher percentage of drug addicts than now. Making it illegal does not prevent people from becoming addicts.
Now, I know that those are two very good myths.. that more guns in a society makes for more homicide and suicide (forget japan) and the other myth that making drugs illegal prevents people from getting drugs so.. less addicts.
do some thinking instead and do some research. for biggles... you might want to read Joyce Malcoms book on guns and gun laws in england. Also study the crime rates and homicide rates in America where concealed carry (handguns) is allowed.
For trax.. there probly is no hope since he thinks everyone needs protecting from themselves. Truth is.. there are only a small percentage of people who have a deffect that causes them to become addicts and it remains constant no matter what the laws are.
I would just as soon they don't perpetuate a huge crime drain on society to get their fix.
lazs
Lasz you claim that there are the same percent of drug users today as there was 100 years ago, ok then show some proof of this. You say for us to do some research on this, so ok show me where you did your research on this, show me where it says this. You wanna know what....I really don't think you can because your just saying things that in your own head believe without any proof, it's what you've been spewing out that is the myth.
Why do think that just making drugs all legal that this would solve every drug problem? Don't you think if this was true that they would have done it.
And yes, there are people out there that need help, whats so wrong with needing help to get off hardcore drugs? See you've never been seriously addicted to a hardcore drug, most of that do end up addicted to them do need some kinda help to get off them. I wasn't able to get myself off heroin, so when the state locked me up I realized that I had hit rock bottom, and you know what, sometimes thats what it takes to realized you need some help.
Thank god that what you've been suggesting will never happen.
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Originally posted by lazs2
first of all.. AH is not hand eye co-ordination in any real sense...
lazs
You have to be kidding? right?
Definition: Hand-eye coordination is the ability of the vision system to coordinate the information received through the eyes to control, guide, and direct the hands in the accomplishment of a given task, such as handwriting or catching a ball. Hand-eye coordination uses the eyes to direct attention and the hands to execute a task.
If you think Ah does not involve hand-eye coordination, then you are not very bright. Typing, moving the joystick(without looking at it) are both hand-eye coordinated tasks. Anytime you process visual data to direct the hands in the accomplishment of a task, without looking at the hands, then you are using hand-eye coordination. What's funny is you are the second person in this post to say that AH doesn't involve hand-eye coordination. LMAO!
Mark
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Originally posted by trax1
Well lazs it's great to see how much you care for your fellow human beings. I highly doubt that if drugs like coke meth and heroin were made legal
Legally available are opiate (heroin) and stimulant (coke) drugs... from the pharmacy companies in the form of prescription pain killers & diet pills. TCH pills too, given to cancer patients for nausea.
The .gov wants us buying those drugs, which have precise dosages... unlike street drugs that are often times 10X stronger, if not more... which leads to physical addiction much faster. The WOD is self fulfilling, the illegal market turns users into hardcore addicts much faster.
Another bit of total hypocrisy, from the movie "In pot we trust"; the Federal govt has a weed grow at some university to supply the last remaining federally authorized weed patient. He gets some 300 US Federal .gov spliffs every month.... meanwhile the DEA is throwing people in federal prison for doing the exact same thing.. after seizing all their property & assets.
The founding fathers must spinning in their graves at what the republicans & democrats have done to this country.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Legally available are opiate (heroin) and stimulant (coke) drugs... from the pharmacy companies in the form of prescription pain killers & diet pills. TCH pills too, given to cancer patients for nausea.
The .gov wants us buying those drugs, which have precise dosages... unlike street drugs that are often times 10X stronger, if not more... which leads to physical addiction much faster. The WOD is self fulfilling, the illegal market turns users into hardcore addicts much faster.
Another bit of total hypocrisy, from the movie "In pot we trust"; the Federal govt has a weed grow at some university to supply the last remaining federally authorized weed patient. He gets some 300 US Federal .gov spliffs every month.... meanwhile the DEA is throwing people in federal prison for doing the exact same thing.. after seizing all their property & assets.
The founding fathers must spinning in their graves at what the republicans & democrats have done to this country.
I really don't understand what the point your trying to make is?
As far as perscription meds, people who get those have legitmaite reasons for taking them, like people who suffer from chronic pain need pain medication to help control it, believe me living your life in horrible pain sucks.
And Skyrock don't pay any attention to Lazs, he's a complete moron.
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I would expect the "Drug Czar" to equate pot smokers to terrorists, it's Goebbels 101 for Christs sake, dehumanize the target.
The funny part is most of you guys have fallen right into the mode expected, is pot evil?...lets hear the pro and con:) .
But we must all agree it is against the law and terroristic, so maybe we need to employ the patriot act to make sure none of them get away on a technicality.
shamus
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Originally posted by trax1
I really don't understand what the point your trying to make is?
As far as perscription meds, people who get those have legitmaite reasons for taking them, like people who suffer from chronic pain need pain medication to help control it, believe me living your life in horrible pain sucks.
The obtaining and reselling of prescription drugs is big, big business.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
The obtaining and reselling of prescription drugs is big, big business.
As it should be, otherwise the preascription drug companys wouldn't have any reason to spend hundred's of millions of dollars on research to create new drugs.
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skyrock... if you think that the hand eye co-ordination that you get from joystick and computer screen translates to real world hand eye co-ordination then it is you are "not very bright" buncha fat nerds who couldn't hit a ping pong ball.. but...
I digress... even if it takes a level of skill..albiet a specialized one... I say that any pothead that is good would be better without the pot.
As I said.. tests of real life hand eye co-ordination always show the pothead doing poorly... I don't mind playing AH with him cause it matters not..but I don't want to share the road.
trax... I am sorry that you have such little faith in your fellow man but disgusted that you think that you have the right to tell them how to lead their lives... "for their own good"
I am sick of both the left and the right constantly worried about the things I do or that others do that harm no one but themselves.
One thing is for certain tho... the "war on drugs" fills our prisons... it costs countless billions.. it keeps despots and criminals and murderers in business and thriving with American dollars that they have to store in warehouses...
It gets your car broken into and your house burglarized. It fills the streets with crime and poverty.
How can making drugs legal make things worse?
lazs
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And trax.. there was opium freely available along with coke.. all until recently. Heroin was also legal and still.... just as today.. the king of drugs was booze.
I have read a lot of history of America. If you want to the info is out there... I am not aware of any specific study so you have to do some research of your own.
briefly.. you can look at http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/gen003.htm
another one is http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/history/whiteb1.htm
This one does claim that there were more addicts of morphine but that it was accidental... that almost every addict of the time was an accidental one!
They were given it because they were civil war veterans and because of false advertising and bad doctors... and they were almost all housewives or patients of bad doctors (of which you claim to fall into category)
How so? the doctors would prescribe it to people for any illness including getting off booze. Women were not encouraged to drink in any case so substituted..
Patent medicines of the time were up to 50% morphine.
sooo.. take out the soldiers and those tricked into addiction and you have a smaller amount of people who were druggies... except booze.. lots of boozers just as today...
opium and coke were widely and freely available.. sorry no extasy or designer drugs.. but most were available.. the users of say opium would be comparable to today... you knew what you were getting into.
people knew what they were getting into and they avoided it... less used even than they do today even tho there were no restrictions...
And... drug related crime was nil... nada... nothing.
Yeah.. the "war on drugs" is going just great.... what the hell has it accomplished?
lazs
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No matter what you say your never gonna convince me, or most of the world that making all drugs legal would be a good thing. As for not having faith in my fellow man, when it comes to heroin I can't. You've never been seriously addicted to heroin so you can't have an understanding of what it will do to you. No matter how strong you think you are, it's stronger. Heroin will take complete control of your life, why do you think hardcore heroin users keep using it even after you really can't get high from it anymore and just need it to feel normal, and to prevent going through withdrawal, because it has control of you.
Like I've said you just will never be able to understand just what an evil drug it is because you've never had a habit for it, and I really hope you never do. Thats why I will never be convinced that making it legal is a good idea because I don't want anyone to have to go through what I have, and what countless others have.
You make it legal and cheap and you will have a serious increase in the number of people overdosing on it.
As I've stated before, what is so wrong with the government helping me or countless other people get off drugs. Alot of us, including myself, had to hit rock bottom, which was going to jail, to realize that I didn't want that life and use that experience to get off the drugs, again whats so wrong with that.
Just because the war on drugs is losing does that mean it should be given up all together? Just throw are hands up and say we quit? I'm sorry but a majority of people in this world would think thats just insane. Just because you don't think those people need our help doesn't mean the rest of us feel that way. Thank god that this will never happen though.
Just one other side note, extasy was actually legal at one point, it was used in couples therapy for married couples that were having intimacy issues.
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I realize that no matter what facts are put in front of you that you will never be convinced...I am just using you to prove a point.
I also find it arrogant of you to think I don't know anything about it. I was addicted to meth and booze for 20 years or more. I did three grams a day just to function.
I see nothing wrong with the government helping you get off drugs. Just not with my money and not the way they are doing it. Rock bottom for most people is not jail... another of your myths... rock bottom is the realization of where you are. When you see what you have done to your life and the peoples around you... to say that it is jail and not the damage you have done to others is simply more of your "poor me" bs. No wonder you had such a hard time.
As for overdosing... it is a fact that purity and quality... more accurately.. the lack of purity and quality is what causes people to overdose...
The reason to quit is not simply because we are losing as you admit... it is because it is making things worse. The war on drugs is really the support on addiction and crime.
Why do you think that booze could not be prohibited? people need a drug. Not all but most. Most handle whatever drug that is in a very responsible way.... most look around and pick one they think they can handle..
No sane person today thinks they can handle coke or meth or heroin... that they can use and not be addicted sooo.. the only people doing those drugs are the ones who would no matter what. they are lost causes and, thankfully, there are not many of em.
Take away accidental addiction and there really is no drug problem in the US.. no more than there ever has been...
none that isn't caused by the war on drugs itself that is.
your whiney ignorance is causing me a lot of problems.
lazs
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Being a recovering addict myself, I find myself on the fence here. Having been to Amsterdam and enjoying the freedoms there, one part of me sees an application in a (Vegas) kind of way here. The other part of me sees a further erosion factor of our culture or now lack of it if certain drugs were legalized. Drugs are a Human condition that goes back to what I would imagine before recorded history, as knuckel dragging half wits. eating anything we can put in our mouths. Which becomes ingrained in our brains instictivly. By nature we are an addictive species that evolves over time.
Substances are not the only addiction. Behavior is probably one of the most hardest addictions to break.
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Originally posted by lazs2
skyrock... if you think that the hand eye co-ordination that you get from joystick and computer screen translates to real world hand eye co-ordination then it is you are "not very bright" buncha fat nerds who couldn't hit a ping pong ball.. but...
I digress... even if it takes a level of skill..albiet a specialized one... I say that any pothead that is good would be better without the pot.
As I said.. tests of real life hand eye co-ordination always show the pothead doing poorly... I don't mind playing AH with him cause it matters not..but I don't want to share the road.
trax... I am sorry that you have such little faith in your fellow man but disgusted that you think that you have the right to tell them how to lead their lives... "for their own good"
I am sick of both the left and the right constantly worried about the things I do or that others do that harm no one but themselves.
One thing is for certain tho... the "war on drugs" fills our prisons... it costs countless billions.. it keeps despots and criminals and murderers in business and thriving with American dollars that they have to store in warehouses...
It gets your car broken into and your house burglarized. It fills the streets with crime and poverty.
How can making drugs legal make things worse?
lazs
Lazs, I can't seem to understand why you would argue that hand-eye coordination is one of the key elements in playing computer games. I even gave you the definition of hand-eye coordination, yet you still want to say it isn't "real life" when used in playing a video game. Please don't even respond about this again as you are showing an incredible amount of ignorance in even arguing this point! It is just a little bit funny. Here are some links for you:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4685909/
http://education.mit.edu/papers/seriousgames.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0528_030528_videogames.html
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/051226/26mind.games.htm
and a quote:
Researchers found that doctors who spent at least three hours a week playing video games made about 37 percent fewer mistakes in laparoscopic surgery and performed the task 27 percent faster than their counterparts who did not play video games.
"I use the same hand-eye coordination to play video games as I use for surgery," said Dr. James "Butch" Rosser, 49, who demonstrated the results of his study Tuesday at Beth Israel Medical Center.
Mark
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Originally posted by Shamus
But we must all agree it is against the law and terroristic, so maybe we need to employ the patriot act to make sure none of them get away on a technicality.
shamus
Civil War anyone?
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Well responding to the original post......
Marijuana does not in any, way, shape, or form support 'terrorism'.
Black markets can support violence. why is there a black market? Who's 'wise' decision was and is that? The Status Quo government will never admit 'prohibition' is and was a bad idea.
Well one thing the US is good at is creating black markets.... look at the poppy business in Afghanistan and Iraq...
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Yeah your must be right Lazs, if we just make drugs available to everyone this world would be a much better place, I can see it now, boy how could I have been so blind.
And yes for alot of people going to jail is rock bottom, and is when they're finally clean for awhile and can think clearly and realize that they don't want to end up back there. One of the hardest things to do when your a heroin addict is get clean because it's a very painful process, so when you go to jail your forced to get clean.
Myself and I would bet the majority of people in this world would agree that making every drug cheap and available at your corner store would be the worst thing you could ever do to combat the drug problem in our society.
As for overdosing, yes more people would overdose if it were cheap because they would be able to afford larger quantity's, so would do more and when you can afford more you do more. Most people can only afford a small amount each day because of how expensive it is, so by making it cheap and legal as you have suggested would result in people buying more. Can you honesty not see how that situation would result in more accidental overdose's. As you said about yourself, you did 3 grams a day, you don't think that if it would have been cheaper that you wouldn't have done more thus increasing the risk of having an overdose?
If you were addicted to meth then I really can't see how you could think what you've suggested would make this a better world. Yes we are losing the war on drugs, but that doesn't mean we throw in the towel and just give up.
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Originally posted by BluKitty
Well responding to the original post......
Marijuana does not in any, way, shape, or form support 'terrorism'.
Black markets can support violence. why is there a black market? Who's 'wise' decision was and is that? The Status Quo government will never admit 'prohibition' is and was a bad idea.
Well one thing the US is good at is creating black markets.... look at the poppy business in Afghanistan and Iraq...
BluKitty,
You are smarter then this! Narco trade in central America has supported all kinds of Terrorist organizations in Central and South America. Just because their not Facist Muslim does not mean they are not terrorists.
This is why I have a hard time with this subject because one part of me believes if this was legalized and controlled some how we would be better off.
!
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Originally posted by uberhun
BluKitty,
You are smarter then this! Narco trade in central America has supported all kinds of Terrorist organizations in Central and South America. Just because their not Facist Muslim does not mean they are not terrorists.
This is why I have a hard time with this subject because one part of me believes if this was legalized and controlled some how we would be better off.
!
Most marijuana is grown ethier here in the U.S or in Canada. There's not much that comes out of Central America or South America. Believe me there are things out there that support terrorism a hell of alot more then marijuana, like counterfeit merchandise like bootleg movies, or counterfeit clothes & purses, or phony Muslim charity organizations. These are the things we need to focus on stopping alot more then marijuana growers.
But I do agree with you that if we just legalized it that would eliminate any chance of it all together.
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Originally posted by lazs2
No sane person today thinks they can handle coke or meth or heroin... that they can use and not be addicted sooo.. the only people doing those drugs are the ones who would no matter what. they are lost causes and, thankfully, there are not many of em.
That right there is one of your myths. There are alot of people out there who just say there just gonna use those drugs on the weekends, and they may indeed go for awhile just using on the weekends, but then after some time they say there just gonna use on the weekends and maybe just once during the week, but then after awhile their using everyday of the week and their full blown addicts. There's alot of these people out there, and if you make all drugs legal there are gonna be people out there that will think they can just use every once in awhile and not get addicted, but unfortunately will end up becoming addicted to it. To me that right there is reason enough not to make them legal, and I'll say it again, thank god that will never happen.
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Originally posted by uberhun
BluKitty,
You are smarter then this! Narco trade in central America has supported all kinds of Terrorist organizations in Central and South America. Just because their not Facist Muslim does not mean they are not terrorists.
This is why I have a hard time with this subject because one part of me believes if this was legalized and controlled some how we would be better off.
!
Uber, it's hard to distinguish terrorists and governments in most central and south american countries. your point is not well argued! Look at how many terrorists our government has backed only for the public to find out later about the terrorism we were actually backing, especially in central and south america! It's all about money, if money is under the table, then it can be used fro anything, if it is regulated, then there must have a papertrail. Sometimes, governments do not want money to have a paper trail!!!:noid
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Here Lazs I found a great artical that talks about making all drugs legal, read it.
From The ACLU
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) opposes criminal prohibition of drugs. Not only is prohibition a proven failure as a drug control strategy, but it subjects otherwise lawabiding citizens to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment for what they do in private. In trying to enforce the drug laws, the government violates the fundamental rights of privacy and personal autonomy that are guaranteed by our Constitution. The ACLU believes that unless they do harm to others, people should not be punished even if they do harm to themselves. There are better ways to control drug use, ways that will ultimately lead to a healthier, freer and less crimeridden society. -ACLU Website
Responce to this statement
Wow! What an incredibly elitist, irresponsible position. If you read further, you find that they would want to set it up under a system of regulated manufacture and distribution. If you thought the lawsuits against the tobacco industries were frivolous, can you imagine the lawsuits that would be filed on the manufacturers of heroine, or crack?
And as you read further on their site you will find their theory to be based on a lot of 'mights'. Young people "might" not be as attracted if it were not a taboo. It 'might' result in less potent drugs availability.
Right now it is illegal to drink and drive, and for good reason. Alcohol affects your judgment and when you get behind the wheel of a car with an altered perception you endanger more than just yourself. The same logic goes with drugs, it affects other people.
An estimated 100,000 babies are born each year addicted to cocaine. So dont tell me that drugs only affect the user! Tell that to the little babies born addicted to crack! Tell that to a woman who is raped by her boyfriend while he is high on PCP! And in the case of legalization maybe the ACLU should tell that to the taxpayers who's insurance rates will skyrocket through the roof, and have more taxes to pay for drug rehab programs!
What age limit would the ACLU advise for the purchase of heroin?
Will the legalization of drugs reduce the crime rate? Dont ignore the fact that many violent crimes are committed through the influence of drugs. A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association (7/6/94) reports that cocaine use is linked to high rates of homicide in New York City and that homicide victims may have provoked violence through irritability, paranoid thinking or verbal and physical aggression which are known to be pharmacological effects of cocaine. And that is just one example.
Of course the fact of drugs being illegal does cause part of the crime. However, if drugs were legal, not only would the crime rate increase because of the increased number of people who were taking drugs, but there would still be a black market and a motive for profit, which brings me the next point..The Black Market.
There are two theories that legalizers like to use that claim the legalization of drugs would eliminate the black market. One states that if drugs were legal they would be sold at regulated government stores. Other legalizers state that drugs would be given out to the poor addicts who could not afford them.
Some believe prices would be low enough to wipe out the black market. Buyers would, however, be heavily taxed to pay for drug education programs and rehabilitation centers. And these taxes would make it possible for criminals to undercut the official price and make their profit. The ACLU wants regulation, and the fact is that a black market would still exist unless all psychoactive and addictive drugs in all strengths were made available to all ages in unlimited quantity.
And again, what of the democratic process? The vast majority of Americans are against legalization of all drugs.
For you potheads out there, I will accept a logical debate on the legalization of marijuana, I might even vote for it if it were allowed to be a States rights issue like it should be, but when it comes to ALL drugs being available and distributed by the government…it is simply detrimental to our interdependent society. The decriminalization of drugs would make dangerous, psychoactive, and addictive substances affordable, available, convenient, and marketable. It would increase the use of drugs. It would remove the social taboo attached to it, and it would send a message of tolerance, especially to the youth.
The fact is that we are not losing the war on drugs. The Legalization Lobby claims that the fight against drugs cannot be won. However, overall drug use is down by more than a third in the last twenty years, while cocaine use has dropped by an astounding 70 percent. Ninety-five percent of Americans do not use drugs. This is success by any standards. See More at DEA Site
Can you imagine how creative the advertisers would get in their competitive efforts to entice you to their particular brand of drug? And while you are thinking about this world the ACLU dreams of, keep in mind the ACLU attitude towards drug testing in the workplace. Then ask yourself what condition do you want your specialtist when you wheel your loved one in for heart or brain surgery? Or the air traffic controller who is monitoring your plane as it approaches landing? The soldier who is truly protecting your freedom and liberty? Something this radical would affect all of society! Arent legal drugs killing enough people already?
After reading that artical if your still for the legalization of all drugs then your insane.
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It also takes hand-eye co-ordination to pee standing up.....
I'm trying to do it well because it should help me be a better kumpooter pilit.:D
but that bowl is sooooooo small:(
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Legally available are opiate (heroin) and stimulant (coke) drugs... from the pharmacy companies in the form of prescription pain killers & diet pills. TCH pills too, given to cancer patients for nausea.
The .gov wants us buying those drugs, which have precise dosages... unlike street drugs that are often times 10X stronger, if not more... which leads to physical addiction much faster. The WOD is self fulfilling, the illegal market turns users into hardcore addicts much faster.
Another bit of total hypocrisy, from the movie "In pot we trust"; the Federal govt has a weed grow at some university to supply the last remaining federally authorized weed patient. He gets some 300 US Federal .gov spliffs every month.... meanwhile the DEA is throwing people in federal prison for doing the exact same thing.. after seizing all their property & assets.
The founding fathers must spinning in their graves at what the republicans & democrats have done to this country.
Don't you work for the .gov???
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trax... so you got nothing? You just feel that the threat of going back to jail helps you so the hell with everyone else?
I have never advocated allowing drugs to be given to underage people.. they really have no rights as such. the article you quoted (because you have nothing) is bogus.
I am telling you to do some research on what it was like when drugs were legal.. and... what it was like when booze was banned.
When booze was banned it was the same as it is now for drugs... same everything.. no fewer drunks... lots of crime... lots of people in jail and lots of illegal activity. sheesh...open your friggin eyes and quit being so narrow minded and selfish.
If you were to do drugs to the point that you could not function... an addict that could not function... you would still be able to be commited where you would be taken off drugs by force and given time to think and "help".. you would then be released and allowed to buy whatever you wanted at the grocery store.
no one truly recovers from addiction because of the fear of jail. If that is what your recovery is based on then you will go back to using. Recovery is based on a morality.. On realizing what you have done to yourself and others... that you were wrong. Not that if you get caught again you will go to jail... anyone who does not believe this has never been through it. It is not I with 17 years of recovery that don't know what I am talking about.. but you with your selfish idea of "recovery". Fear of jail is not recovery.
Jail is not a bottom.
Same as now but.. you needed to be in my prison which is allready overcrowded. When you got out.. are you telling me that you couldn't buy drugs? that you were stopped because the "war" was being won and they were not available?
And trax... there is not one fact in that "article" you quoted nothing but the speculation of the writer who is un named. It is not me who is insane for not believing what this guy thinks MIGHT happen but you for believing him... for even listening when you have history to look at REAL history.. not this guys fantasy world.
lazs
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skyrock... sorry... because a surgeon thinks he does a little better hand eye wise after playing a video game.... that doesn't mean it translates well.
He would have been far better off learning ping pong. I am saying that you could play AH till you are blue in the face and not be any better at ping pong.
The actual joystic and button part the part it takes to be good are not compex.. not difficult.. many add a lot of stuff like typing and such that is not necessary.
I am saying it does not translate to catching a fast ball or juggling or playing ping pong.. you can be king of AH and get slaughtered by a person who can play ping pong at their game. You will never be a better juggler.
You can tell yourself you aren't wasting time... you aren't..yu are meeting people and interacting but... you aren't learning a real physical skill.. you aren't developing any hand eye co-ordination that you can use away from the puter..
you still can't even see that fast ball or hit that golf ball.
look at it the other way. the worlds best ping pong player would get slaughtered in AH... Ah takes a lot of skills that have nothing to do with hand eye co-ordination...
I think you will admit that those ranked in the top ten say... have no special hand eye co-ordination skills.. in fact.. they all can be beaten by dozens of players with very low rank... it is not hand eye that make for success in AH.
Once the rudimentary low level is reached.. that is all you need.. the rest is simply thinking ahead and paying attention.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
blah blah-b-blah drivel drivel blah drivel bah blab.
lazs
:D
So AH isnt a real skill but PING PONG is? OK Forest, whatever you say..........
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ah takes a lot of skills that have nothing to do with hand eye co-ordination...
lazs
Hand-eye coordination is a fine motor skill as opposed to a gross motor skill. In AH, one must be able to have basic gross motor skills(holding one's head up, balancing upright in a chair), and fine motor skills such as hand-eye coordination and foot-eye coordination(if pedals are used), as opposed to ping-pong where a player must use advanced gross motor skills such as standing up and walking as well. You seem to be associating fine motor skills with sports that also involve advanced gross motor skills as if using advanced gross motor skills makes that game need more advanced fine motor skills. This is simply not the case. AH requires three skills:
*critical thinking
(Critical thinking consists of the mental process of analyzing and evaluating statements or propositions that have been offered as true. It includes a process of reflecting upon the specific meaning of statements, examining offered evidence and reasoning, in order to form a judgment.
Critical thinkers can gather information from verbal or written expression, reflection, observation, experience and reasoning. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance and fairness.)
*gross motor skill
(Gross motor skills include lifting one's head, rolling over, sitting up, balancing, crawling, and walking. Gross motor development usually follows a pattern. Generally large muscles develop before smaller ones. Thus, gross motor development is the foundation for developing skills in other areas (such as fine motor skills). Development also generally moves from top to bottom. The first thing a baby usually learns is to control its head.)
*fine motor skill
(Fine motor skills include the ability to manipulate small objects, transfer objects from hand to hand, and various hand-eye coordination tasks. Fine motor skills may involve the use of very precise motor movement in order to achieve an especially delicate task. Some examples of fine motor skills are using the pincer grasp (thumb and forefinger) to pick up small objects, cutting, coloring and writing, and threading beads. Fine motor development refers to the development of skills involving the smaller muscle groups.)
If you want to compare ping-pong and AH, you are not comparing hand-eye coordination skills, as the fine motor skills used in AH are much more advanced, you are comparing a game(ping-pong) that involves advanced gross motor skills to one(AH) that only needs minimal gross motor skills. Now, if you want to compare ping-pong and AH in fine motor skills, specifically hand-eye coordination, AH requires much more advanced skill than ping-pong. That is to say, pushing a button with your finger is a much more advanced skill than gripping a paddle. Also, twisting a twisty stick is a much more advanced skill than swinging your arm. Why is this so? When studying the amount of manipulation invovled in the two skills I described above used in AH, it is known that the use of more muscles to perform a task, involves more advanced motor development. The more muscles used and the more precise the task has to be, reflects the degree of the motor skill involved.
Typing dwarfs ping-pong in hand-eye coordination by the way!
On a lighter note, it is no wonder why they had Forrest Gump's character playing ping pong instead of AH! hee hee
:D
Mark
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We have a Predator pilot in our squadron. Yeah, this game has no realworld "skills".
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Hand-eye coordination is a fine motor skill as opposed to a gross motor skill. In AH, one must be able to have basic gross motor skills(holding one's head up, balancing upright in a chair), and fine motor skills such as hand-eye coordination and foot-eye coordination(if pedals are used), as opposed to ping-pong where a player must use advanced gross motor skills such as standing up and walking as well. You seem to be associating fine motor skills with sports that also involve advanced gross motor skills as if using advanced gross motor skills makes that game need more advanced fine motor skills. This is simply not the case. AH requires three skills:
*critical thinking
*Gross motor skill
*fine motor skill
On a lighter note, it is no wonder why they had Forrest Gump's character playing ping pong instead of AH! hee hee
:D
Mark
*Jealousy of the LTARs
*Mouth that never Stops
*Uncontroling Urge to Whine
*Roys Cell Phone Number
You forgot your above 4 Favorites SkyTurd.
:D
Mac
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LOL... ok... you have a real predetor pilot in your squad so that proves... proves what?
I do see the difference between fine motor skill and gross motor skill. I think that fine motor skill is overrated as it applies to AH.
I have been playing for 15 years. I say that there is very little real motor skills involved.. that anyone can do it with some practice. I would not say the same for real life skills.
Now, you guys may just feel good thinking this so as to justify spending embarassing amounts of time being a cartoon pilot but... It's just a game... A game where you have to see the little cartoon planes and make the controls shoot it down.
I think that not just ping pong but real life requires advanced motor skills that do not translate from the simple motor skills needed to play AH to real life. Play all you want... it won't help that golf game or anything else that translates to getting your fat butt out of the chair and getting some exercise.
The fact that even a brain dead pot head can play AH just further proves my point.
Don't get me wrong.. I love to play AH.. It is a great way to waste a few hours having a blast... I have also met some of the greatest people of my life through AH... but... Having done it for years... I don't feel that it takes much real hand eye co-ordination... on a scale going from one to ten with...
one being walking without tripping and ten being juggling while riding a unicycle on a high wire while wearing a one man band getup and playing "flight of the valkyries" .....
AH would be about a 2 1/2... certainly nothing to brag about... except to your wife or whoever will listen to your excuse for playing so much.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think that fine motor skill is overrated as it applies to AH.
I say that there is very little real motor skills involved.. I would not say the same for real life skills.
I think that not just ping pong but real life requires advanced motor skills that do not translate from the simple motor skills needed to play AH to real life. .. I don't feel that it takes much real hand eye co-ordination...
lazs
A complete lack of knowlege and understanding of how the human body works.
Here is a little tidbit for you to snack on:
The nervous system of an animal coordinates the activity of the muscles. Motor skills and motor control depend upon the proper functioning of the brain, skeleton, joints, and nervous system. Fine motor skills can be defined as small muscle movements: those that occur in the finger, in coordination with the eyes. Video games can help people expand their imagination, develop their ability to solve problems, and learn fine motor skills.
bah, I really don't think you want to learn, just to be happy and ignorant! Have a good day, lazs!
Mark
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I will agree that sims help you learn the very basics of "flying" but if you think you could just jump in a real plane and do this....Well, your nutz. I played flight sims such as msflight sim for many hours before I got my pilots license and it did help me learn the instruments, radios and a few other things but, landing a 182 in a 30mile per hour crosswind simply can't be replicated by a computer game. I don't care how good your "force feedback" joystick is. It's MUCH different when you actually feel the forces on your body.
Sky, I do appreciate the time you spent with me in the DA helping me get better at this GAME but, I don't think that I'm a better real life pilot because of it.
So, If you would like to claim your the king of the virtual sky's.... be my guest.
Really, it don't mean squat....
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I will agree that sims help you learn the very basics of "flying" but if you think you could just jump in a real plane and do this....Well, your nutz. I played flight sims such as msflight sim for many hours before I got my pilots license and it did help me learn the instruments, radios and a few other things but, landing a 182 in a 30mile per hour crosswind simply can't be replicated by a computer game. I don't care how good your "force feedback" joystick is. It's MUCH different when you actually feel the forces on your body.
Sky, I do appreciate the time you spent with me in the DA helping me get better at this GAME but, I don't think that I'm a better real life pilot because of it.
So, If you would like to claim your the king of the virtual sky's.... be my guest.
Really, it don't mean squat....
What?
I was replying to lazs about him saying that AH doesn't use hand-eye coordination, which is a complete uneducated statement.
Now in reference to your post that I have quoted here, you have to be kidding? right? All airlines and arms of the military use flight sims to prepare their pilots! There are none that do not use them! The Isreaeli air force even uses other video games to train it's pilots on fine motor skills and cognitive decision making, if I remember correctly.
Are you claiming AH didn't make you better, without the risk of dying before you actually entered the air? I have first hand experience, albeit on a smaller scale. Visiting my sister two years ago, I got to go up with a family friend in a cub. He asks if I have ever flown a plane. I said no, but I have played online SIM. He gave me the controls and it was exactly like flying on the game, except I was obviously more worried about not making a mistake. I did some basic manuvers with his instructions that I not go below 45mph. He was astounded at the precision of my flying for the first time. Now, I would not want to be in a plane by myself because, as you know, there are many other variables involved(fuel line freezing, LANDING!!!!) and such, but the basic contols of flying were almost second nature, and definitely due to my AH experience as I have played no other flight sim.
Mark
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Snip~ TCH pills too, given to cancer patients for nausea.
~snip
Unfortunately, those that are suffering from nausea have a tough time keeping those pills down. They generally end up throwing it up. "Precise" dosages of THC Delta9 shouldn't be a worry as there isn't a threat to overdosing. THC just isn't toxic enough to cause death in humans (speaking on a statistically significant scale).
Personally, I'd like to see the legalization of all of the drugs. Tax dollars from the sale of the drugs can be used for treatment of those that get addicted as well as the education of the effects of what the various drugs can do (prevention and all that).
A certain segment of the population is going to use drugs whether they are legal or not, just as a certain segment of the population will never use the drugs whether they be legal or not.
Making the drugs illegal is just a 'feel good' nanny law that doesn't actually solve anything. Making things illegal generally brings in the criminal element that actually creates more problems and costs than it solves.
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Originally posted by FBBone
Don't you work for the .gov???
Retired from the police dept / Marine reserve, from injuries... which is why I can now express my opinion on the matter. The .gov did teach me everything about drugs, and allowed me to participate the that ineffective, useless & draconian thing called the War On Drugs..
LEAP: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
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Yes, the military uses flight sims.....but they are just a tad more advanced than an internet based ww2 sim. (just a tad)
Yes, I am claiming AH didn't make me better....Not ONE bit.
Btw HTC....I do love your sim:aok
msflightsim...as I said before did familiarize me with instruments etc...
but, anybody could do a few standard rate turns in a plane thats in the air. Air combat however is a totally different thing. I actually went to california and did this in 01' and it's FAR different than any sim I've ever played. Some chinese dude was pwning me for real.:mad: After that experience I became content with flying my 206 straight and level.:rofl
I recommend you try it and you will see what I'm talking about. It was well worth every penny. :aok
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Sure AH is "Just a game"
What is PING-PONG? a way of life?:rofl
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Yes, the military uses flight sims.....but they are just a tad more advanced than an internet based ww2 sim. (just a tad)
Yes, I am claiming AH didn't make me better....Not ONE bit.
Btw HTC....I do love your sim:aok
msflightsim...as I said before did familiarize me with instruments etc...
but, anybody could do a few standard rate turns in a plane thats in the air. Air combat however is a totally different thing. I actually went to california and did this in 01' and it's FAR different than any sim I've ever played. Some chinese dude was pwning me for real.:mad: After that experience I became content with flying my 206 straight and level.:rofl
I recommend you try it and you will see what I'm talking about. It was well worth every penny. :aok
What did you do first......study and train to fly, or fly AH?
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didn't play AH until after I got my pilots license.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
didn't play AH until after I got my pilots license.
Then you can not comment on whether it helped you before you flew or not!
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Originally posted by lazs2
LOL... ok... you have a real predetor pilot in your squad so that proves... proves what?
lazs
That your global, coverall opinion is wrong. Sorry to break that to ya. The Army is recruiting gamers for the next level of UCAV's.
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skyrock.. Ok.. we got one surgeon who claims he is better because of some game (not ah) and one pilot who claims it makes no difference.
I would agree that it would translate well to predator pilot. one computer skill translates well to another.. I have never said any different. I would say that the predator pilot would be better off using his time on a predator simulator tho.
I would say that skyrock is not near the pilot that any of the real pilots here are and that real pilots who are better than he will ever be might never be as good at the sim as him.
flying games don't make you a better pilot.. driving games don't make you a driver and shooting games don't make you a good shot.
You learn typing skills and some joystick skills that might help a little with equipment but your time would be better spent learning to drive a real frontloader or grader or such.
face it... you are simply playing a game and having fun and if you are good.. it is because you have a knack for that certain game. it does not mean that you will show any above standard hand eye co-ordination in real life skills.
That is all I meant... the best gamer can't even come close to the real good real life counterpart.. the practice a gamer gets is rudimentary and after a short learning curve (relatively) and a simple one... they learn no more.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
skyrock.. Ok.. we got one surgeon who claims he is better because of some game (not ah) and one pilot who claims it makes no difference.
I would agree that it would translate well to predator pilot. one computer skill translates well to another.. I have never said any different. I would say that the predator pilot would be better off using his time on a predator simulator tho.
I would say that skyrock is not near the pilot that any of the real pilots here are and that real pilots who are better than he will ever be might never be as good at the sim as him.
flying games don't make you a better pilot.. driving games don't make you a driver and shooting games don't make you a good shot.
You learn typing skills and some joystick skills that might help a little with equipment but your time would be better spent learning to drive a real frontloader or grader or such.
face it... you are simply playing a game and having fun and if you are good.. it is because you have a knack for that certain game. it does not mean that you will show any above standard hand eye co-ordination in real life skills.
That is all I meant... the best gamer can't even come close to the real good real life counterpart.. the practice a gamer gets is rudimentary and after a short learning curve (relatively) and a simple one... they learn no more.
lazs
Your quoted statement,
"first of all.. AH is not hand eye co-ordination in any real sense..."
You are an unstudied clueless moron on this subject. Why you would continue to post completely ignorant assumptions is beyond me. I have studied kinesiology, I have study biomechanics, and I teach physical skills. You are doing nothing more than giving your opinion, which is so for off base with current studies and data, that it simply makes you look like a bafoon.
I guess I do get a little chuckle out of it. I mean your statements are so off in left field it is kind of funny! Why post incorrect assumptions rather than go do some reading on the subject?
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Originally posted by trax1
Here Lazs I found a great artical that talks about making all drugs legal, read it.
From The ACLU
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) opposes criminal prohibition of drugs. Not only is prohibition a proven failure as a drug control strategy, but it subjects otherwise lawabiding citizens to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment for what they do in private. In trying to enforce the drug laws, the government violates the fundamental rights of privacy and personal autonomy that are guaranteed by our Constitution. The ACLU believes that unless they do harm to others, people should not be punished even if they do harm to themselves. There are better ways to control drug use, ways that will ultimately lead to a healthier, freer and less crimeridden society. -ACLU Website
Responce to this statement
Wow! What an incredibly elitist, irresponsible position. If you read further, you find that they would want to set it up under a system of regulated manufacture and distribution. If you thought the lawsuits against the tobacco industries were frivolous, can you imagine the lawsuits that would be filed on the manufacturers of heroine, or crack?
They have already been sued, and get sued all the time.
Recently manufacturers of OxyContin, an opiate like heroine, just got fanged for over $600 million bucks. There is already plenty of case law regarding legally available opiates & stimulants.
Why do you think there would be more lawsuits than there already are?
BTW the idea of controlling 'drugs' like the .gov does with alcohol, means you can't buy "crack" or "heroine", but you can buy a 6 pack of opiate tea, or stimulant beer that has quality / purity control and comes in known dosages.
I hardly think a legal 6 pack of opiate tea with the buzz of, say 2500mg Hydrocodone, would cause the end of civilization or turn everyone's daughter into a smackpotato. It would however give addicts an alternative to bashing in your skull or ripping you off.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Then you can not comment on whether it helped you before you flew or not!
I surely didn't become a better pilot after I started playing AH at least in my opinion.
However, I do believe that this game/sim is incredible as far as their modelling goes but, there is only so much you can "simulate". I'm just saying there is NO subsitute for the real thing.
I just don't see much difference in this and playing something such as tiger woods golf on xbox (or whatever). Both take "hand-eye co-ordination" as you put it but just because I shoot -18 par in a game doesn't mean I can do it in real life....I know what your gonna say about the flight controls you use that are similar to those you would find in an aircraft and the controller you use to simulate a swing on x-box are different. (which there isn't alot of difference in them actually because you won't find a keyboard anywhere in a cessna) But, are they really? Without the physical effects on your body is it the same thing? They both take concentration, they both take hand-eye co-ordination, they both take "fine motor skills", and they both take "critical thinking".
Btw, I'm not just trying to argue with you....I find some of your posts very informative and I'm enjoying have a good debate with ya:aok
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skyrock... what part of "any real sense" is too hard for you to follow?
You are not a fighter pilot... get over it... you are not developing superior hand eye co-ordination skills that will transfer to juggling or flying or playing ping pong.
any twelve year old that spends time out in a sandlot will kick your computer bound butt in a game of softball.
you won't be a better golfer or a better person... you won't be a ninja from playing endless hours.
You might possibly be able to beat people who posses real hand eye co-ordination skill when they go up against you in cartoon planes.. that does not mean you could beat them at anything else.
I have been doing this as long or longer than you.. back when it was dos AW.. and I tell you... it is fun... it can let you meet people and you can get good at it but... it doesn't make you a champ or a ninja.
you are just getting better at shooting down cartoon planes in one particular sim.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
skyrock... what part of "any real sense" is too hard for you to follow?
You are not a fighter pilot... get over it... you are not developing superior hand eye co-ordination skills that will transfer to juggling or flying or playing ping pong.
any twelve year old that spends time out in a sandlot will kick your computer bound butt in a game of softball.
you won't be a better golfer or a better person... you won't be a ninja from playing endless hours.
You might possibly be able to beat people who posses real hand eye co-ordination skill when they go up against you in cartoon planes.. that does not mean you could beat them at anything else.
I have been doing this as long or longer than you.. back when it was dos AW.. and I tell you... it is fun... it can let you meet people and you can get good at it but... it doesn't make you a champ or a ninja.
you are just getting better at shooting down cartoon planes in one particular sim.
lazs
Everything you say has no merit on the topic of does being a good cartoon pilot require better hand-eye coordination. As a matter of fact, you keep restating completely false assumptions that somehow, hand-eye coordination in a game does not transfer to "real world". On the contrary, acquiring better hand-eye coordination, no matter how it was acquired, does in fact become part of your skills. It is a fact well studied, yet you refuse to educate yourself on the topic. Instead, you come on here and drivel ignorant assumptions based on no facts!
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no...you simply have gotten offended because you either feel that I am insulting your ninja-ness or because you are ashamed to even admit to yourself that you are playing because you enjoy it and that for the most part... excessive playing is a waste of time.
I say that it is better than watching TV. I say it is a form of social interaction. I have gained in that respect... I don't eat like I would in front of a TV but...
My basic statement was simply that it didn't translate to physical skills in "any real sense"
real being... hit the ball... play billiards pool.. golf.. ping pong.. juggle.. who cares...
Get out and get some sun and some exercise and then come back and tell us how much AH helped you out in the real world.
My point is easily understood if you realize that some of the most athletic players with the best real world hand eye co-ordination are not that good at AH. They are not unbeatable by guys who can't even get a row of buttons done up right on their shirts.
lazs
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I thought this thread was about pot & terrorism.
...
:huh
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Originally posted by lazs2
no...you simply have gotten offended because you either feel that I am insulting your ninja-ness or because you are ashamed to even admit to yourself that you are playing because you enjoy it and that for the most part... excessive playing is a waste of time.
I say that it is better than watching TV. I say it is a form of social interaction. I have gained in that respect... I don't eat like I would in front of a TV but...
My basic statement was simply that it didn't translate to physical skills in "any real sense"
real being... hit the ball... play billiards pool.. golf.. ping pong.. juggle.. who cares...
Get out and get some sun and some exercise and then come back and tell us how much AH helped you out in the real world.
My point is easily understood if you realize that some of the most athletic players with the best real world hand eye co-ordination are not that good at AH. They are not unbeatable by guys who can't even get a row of buttons done up right on their shirts.
lazs
Lazs, not once have I been upset, but you obviously do not realise that this is my field of study. I moved from advanced science to life health and physical education last year due to the fact that I got full custody of my children and did not want to spend the time it took to continue in that field. I chose to go to the elementary level out of necessity, as raising two kids on my own, requires that I cannot lead any extra-curricular activities because of time issues. So, I am currently studying pre-k(4 yrs)- 5th grade(10-12) level skills and new teaching strategies and tools to teach the skills on this level. In my research and programs, we have been kept current on the latest studies and continue to be kept updated on data analysis on topics such as the one we have been attempting to debate. During our back and forth here on the boards, I am getting the feeling that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing without posting any findings to support your comments. In reality, you are way off base from all of the current and new data that is being presented to our nations educators on this topic. I should refrain from being harsh about it though, it is just that I am detecting that you are retorting out of the pleasure of the argument, rather than a true belief that you are right.
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Originally posted by lazs2
trax... so you got nothing? You just feel that the threat of going back to jail helps you so the hell with everyone else?
I have never advocated allowing drugs to be given to underage people.. they really have no rights as such. the article you quoted (because you have nothing) is bogus.
I am telling you to do some research on what it was like when drugs were legal.. and... what it was like when booze was banned.
When booze was banned it was the same as it is now for drugs... same everything.. no fewer drunks... lots of crime... lots of people in jail and lots of illegal activity. sheesh...open your friggin eyes and quit being so narrow minded and selfish.
If you were to do drugs to the point that you could not function... an addict that could not function... you would still be able to be commited where you would be taken off drugs by force and given time to think and "help".. you would then be released and allowed to buy whatever you wanted at the grocery store.
no one truly recovers from addiction because of the fear of jail. If that is what your recovery is based on then you will go back to using. Recovery is based on a morality.. On realizing what you have done to yourself and others... that you were wrong. Not that if you get caught again you will go to jail... anyone who does not believe this has never been through it. It is not I with 17 years of recovery that don't know what I am talking about.. but you with your selfish idea of "recovery". Fear of jail is not recovery.
Jail is not a bottom.
Same as now but.. you needed to be in my prison which is allready overcrowded. When you got out.. are you telling me that you couldn't buy drugs? that you were stopped because the "war" was being won and they were not available?
And trax... there is not one fact in that "article" you quoted nothing but the speculation of the writer who is un named. It is not me who is insane for not believing what this guy thinks MIGHT happen but you for believing him... for even listening when you have history to look at REAL history.. not this guys fantasy world.
lazs
I've been gone the last few days so thats why it took awhile for me to respond.
For one, whats wrong with using the fear of going to jail for keeping me from using again? I know that if I start using drugs again that thats where I'm gonna end up, and thats not what I want for my life. So again I say whats so wrong if I use that to keep myself clean? If knowing that if I use again that my life will go right down the **** hole and I'll end up back in jail is what I use to stay clean and it works whats wrong with it? Why do think that I will use again if this is whats keeps me clean? Trust me jail is not a nice place, and I will do anything to never return there, and that thought is enough to make me never want to touch another drug in my life. The fear of returning to jail isn't the only thing that helps me stay clean, but's it is one of the things that helps me, so whats wrong with it being one of the things that helps me?
As for your statement about there being no more drug users now then there were when it was legal I highly doubt this to be true, especially since you wont post any proof to back this up.
Also as the article I posted says, the black market would still exist for drugs as if it were legal it would most likely be taxed the hell out of and wouldn't be so affordable that users wouldn't commit crimes to get the money to buy it. So the legalization of it isn't going to drop the crime rate. So what's the benefit of legalizing it then?
Isn't the fact that not one country on earth(except for maybe some backwards bellybutton 3rd world country) has hardcore drugs legal a clue that making them legal is a bad idea. It's because just about everybody(except for a few nut jobs like yourself)know it's a really bad idea and that nothing good could come of it. Nothing good comes from using drugs so why would anyone want them to be legal. If it was a good idea don't you think some country out there would have tried it by now?
Making them legal wont reduce the crime rate from people committing crimes to get money to purchase drugs, because even if they are legal there not gonna be free, so users will still rob & steal to get the money for the drugs.
Also saying that there's not one fact in that article and its just speculation, I can say the same for what you claim, there's not one fact in what you've said that legalizing the drug would be a good thing for society. Why should we take the risk of doing that when there's a good chance that it would just make the drug problem worst, not better.
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trax... there is nothing "wrong" with using the fear of jail to keep you off drugs except.... if that is all you got then you won't stay off. Unless you are really not that hooked or really really mousy.
You use whatever you can and you don't use.. no matter what.. even if your butt falls off. You use any excuse you can but in the end... If you are not doing it for moral reasons... for yourself and for the harm you do others... you won't succeed. I truly believe that is why so few junkies succeed. Most care only about themselves.. the selfishness of only caring about incarceration is an obvious (to most people) path to failure.
Contrast that with say... the realization of what you have done to your kids or wife or whatever...
Oh well... we are a selfish people these days... maybe jail is all that will resonate but....
If that is the case... Then... lets do it right... lets start executing drug addicts and dealers... that would keep you and other selfish people clean... and if it didn't....
So what? the problem would go away anyhow.. dead people don't rob your house... In countries with the death penalty for drugs they have pretty much solved the problem... without the death penalty for drugs we seem to just be making it worse.
lazs
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skyrock... I read what you said and what I could find. It changes nothing.
I could not see where the hand eye co-ordination from computer games translated in any real way to sports or physical activity other than...well... computer skills.
Like things train for like things... If you race go karts...you have a leg up in racing most other forms of auto racing for instance. Motorcycle racing translates well often to auto racing... not always tho.
what is certain... is that playing ping pong makes you better at the type of hand eye co-ordination needed to play ping pong and...
Playing AH a lot makes you more skilled at playing AH... and not much else.
Let me ask you... what AH hand eye skills do you think have directly affected your hand eye co-ordination in some real life activity? What has it improved?
I could see the opposite.. those who are not clumsy will do better at AH.. to a point... at some point (as the studies you talk about even say) there is no substitute for doing the real thing.
I may be argueing for the sake of it but... I don't think so... I think that it is important to say that if any real hand eye co-ordination is achieved by playing games it is slight as it translates to real world and any other physical activity out in the sun or at a real game table would do more unless your world is the computer.
lazs
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who needs teh college when tehy can come here adn get teh smart.