Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on July 17, 2007, 08:47:45 PM
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Or: A little statistical folly...
We all know that we do have to take all player stats in this game with some caution. For example Fighter Hit% is not only a result of skill and controller, but also depending on plane choice and playing style - buff busting increases your hit percentage.
That being said, I was curious about the overall distribution of hit percentages. By examining the rank numbers you could roughly estimate the average player having a hit % of about 3%-4%, but that wasn't accurate enough for me.
Method:
To get a sufficient number of random players, I went into a LW arena a few weeks ago and took a snapshot of the pilot roster. Then I waited until after the end of the tour before recording each pilot's final score. Players who did never fly a fighter sortie were eliminated. After all, this sample comprised 359 players seems to be about 5% of all players flying fighter sorties in that tour.
Result:
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1496/grafasr8.gif )
The median of all players Hit % was found to be 3.44%
Note the huge drop off at 6% - This seems to be indeed a big threshold concerning shooting skills. Once you get to 10% and above, there is not much variation anymore.
Based on that thresholds, I took the liberty of arbitrarily grouping the player into four categories:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6228/grafbtr9.gif )
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Woot I'm in the superb category
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I dunno whuich is more disturbing- the fact that I'm a "superb" shot, or the fact that you put the time and effort into compiling that.
Nice study, wtg :D
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:eek: You must've worked pretty hard...
Don't know what to say, I think I understand... but I'm not quite sure...
Nice work. :D Though I don't see why I needed to know this... was fun to look at all the pretty colors of that second graph :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Treize69
I dunno whuich is more disturbing- the fact that I'm a "superb" shot, or the fact that you put the time and effort into compiling that.
Oh, having repeatedly the maps I don't like to fly on in both LW arenas at the same time did help... ;)
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Looked at another way, one could argue that 4% are very good at showing up when the vulch light is on . . .
Or that 14% are such clueless noobs as to begin shooting from 2.0K out . . .
Hard to draw any real conclusions, but the data is interesting.
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Might I suggest skinning?
Less disturbing to those around you. :D
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Originally posted by E25280
Or that 14% are such clueless noobs as to begin shooting from 2.0K out . . .
I can't think of any other way to get a hit percentage of 0.1 %...
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wow, score page says i have 18.14% in fighters atm. i tend to fly a lot of 50 cal armed planes, only shoot under 300 yrds, and usually only take shots in a slight turn, giving me a higher profile, that way a 1/4 second burst will kill pretty much anything.
i also attack bombers in a way that 80+% of my rounds hit them, which must bump my total up a bit, although i haven't killed too many bombers in fighter mode this tour...
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Very interesting statistics, I've followed my hit % over the last few months and I'm almost always around 5-6%, I'm glad to see that this seems to be a threshold for most players to get passed.
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:lol Ok, you made me look . . .
It is rather curious -- I am a very poor shot, yet my hit% in fighters in the current tour is 11.9%! :eek: :O :eek:
But what is downright perplexing --- what plane could I possibly have set as a "fighter?" :huh :confused: :huh
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Originally posted by E25280
I am a very poor shot
I can attest to that :p
I've been hovering around 13% all month, but I'm usually up around 15-17%. Gunnery been degrading lately, even got to the point where I turned my tracers back on to see where my rounds were going, since it didnt seem to be where I was pointing.
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Unloading 1800 rounds of bb's in the 190A5 probably skews my stats :D
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Unloading 1800 rounds of bb's in the 190A5 probably skews my stats :D
This is exactly why you have to be careful with interpretation of individual scores :)
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Killing ack while not in attack mode hurts your percentage, correct?
I really don't know because this stuff is pretty immaterial to me.
What counts for the whole game is how many planes with red icons blow up in front of my guns.
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my hit% has been consistently higher than 15% for a year, and has often hit over 20% during several tours. i have always used tracers, i hate having them off. treize, do what you feel comfortable with. the myth that turning tracers off gives you a better hit% is total BS.
i just couldn't shoot right without tracers, seeing as i usually fire while pulling G's in different attitudes.
i tried for a few weeks with tracers off a while back, and my hit% during that time was 4-5%, soon as i turned it back on, it jumped to nearly 15 by the end of the month, which considering i had ballsed it up that month with the tracers off, wasn't bad.
i've had a hit% of 76% at one point simply because of the way i kill buffs, but that died by the end of the month because of anti fighter stuff of course. i think because of things like that, that any study of this type can't be too accurate.
i find that batfink has great aim, and whenever we duel, he lands incredible shot that i wouldn't dream of even taking, but he says his hit% is never much over 8 because he takes crazy shots in the MA's. all depends on how you fly and how you like to shoot rather than how good your aim is...
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Turning off tracers works for me... for a day or two. After that my abilty to hit drops at an alarming rate.
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I don't know what my hit percentage is, I am sure it is not good considering I like to shoot past squadies to make them jump:D
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I had mine off for months without problem and my hit % went up about 5 points after doing it, its all in your preferences.
I find I get a lot more kills when theres no warning that I'm shooting at them until the rounds impact. I get a lot of light damage and assisits with tracers on.
Its also distracing on dead 6 shots to lose the con under the tracers, I often lose sight of him until hes already breaking and its too late to adjust my aim. Tracers off gives you a free second shot if you miss or don't do fatal damage, as usually a few pings and no tracers to show where the enemy is doesnt seem to be enough to scare them into maneuvering, if anything they just hunker down and dive or zoom- which makes it even easier.
It also seems to help on tracking shots when they don't know you're firing unil the rounds impact.
Like so :)
(http://www.80thfs.homestead.com/ahfilm_2007-02-10_19-58-28-39.jpg)
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hit % are more milked than a goat in Iraq/cow in Indiana!:aok
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damn!!!!!!! i'm average!!!!!!!:O :O
i really thought i sucked........:rofl
<>
john
oo...proof of what you said bout bomber hunting bringing up hit percent.......last tour i was experimenting a bit....i flew only a few misions in fighter catagory.....and i fought no fighters in those misions....only bombers......my hit percent was almost 12%.
this tour, i'm only hanging round 4-5%........and been furballin my but off:D
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Learning to have >patience< has been the hardest
to learn so far.......
at current.....apx 6%
I improve every month but what helped the most was
dumping all the crap
skins
stall limiter
tracers
and most of all.....combat trim
ya wanna fly with the swingers its all gotta go.
learn to trim yer bird and stop flying it into the ground.
just a thought
>S< froger <---------the other grean meat:aok
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Originally posted by E25280
Looked at another way, one could argue that 4% are very good at showing up when the vulch light is on . . .
Or that 14% are such clueless noobs as to begin shooting from 2.0K out . . .
Hard to draw any real conclusions, but the data is interesting.
Exactly.
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Greetings,
Hit % I will always suck at. I fly 47s almost all the time. You give me a snap shot, I will take it. (3400 rnds). I even shoot when the red dots are under my nose. Some times it works, some times it don't.
I believe electrons are cheap. Shoot 'em all and let the Master Program sort 'em out.
Regards,
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I think im just over 10%. Flying the 109 you sorta have to let every round count or you need to land all day to get more.
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Wow, you've got too much time on your hands.
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My hit % is around 0.002% because when rtbing I usualy fire off all my rounds for something to do. I bet I could get it up to about 2% if I stopped!
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One has to remember that hit% does not only tell how accurately one shoots, but also how one plays in general.... there are several situation where ammo is expended without a real intention to hit enemy planes: e.g. trying to scare someone away from a friendly's six, strafing acks or troops, unloading extra mg rounds, trying to disturb calibrating bombers or bombers almost at the drop point from long distance, etc, etc.
Some people do such things, others only shoot at planes.
Still that graph was interesting info :)
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Originally posted by Lusche
Or: A little statistical folly...
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6228/grafbtr9.gif )
Or a positive way of looking at it
Poor 2%
Newbies shooting from 2k out at anything and everything. Building bashers in fighter mode. Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better:rolleyes:
Average 2 to 5%
Sprayers and prayers. Ack shooters. Convergences set way to long. Up close they miss because bullets are lofted over target. These guys get more kills on me than vets:furious
Good 6 to 9% Taking fighting more seriously. Still shooting from 400 + though on occasions. Still attacking bombers the wrong way and expending more ammo than needed on acks but definitely trying harder.;)
Superb 10%+
Up close and personal where fighting is concerned. Your getting it mate! Convergences typically set between 200 and no more than 300. Shooting beyond 400 considered a "risky" long shot. Majority are vets with scorers being the minority in this category. Couple of rounds for ack kills. Bombers are a tasty morsel.
:aok
Feel free to lambaste my opinion it's your look out not mine. I'm in the "superb" category and have been for some time :D
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dumping ammo weight does help plane performance even if only in small fractions.
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Don't forget the ones who hold the trigger down hoping for a lucky hit (or out of frustration) after their tail is shot off.
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Originally posted by Tabasco
Don't forget the ones who hold the trigger down hoping for a lucky hit (or out of frustration) after their tail is shot off.
In my experience, that guys are crappy pilots/shooters anyway. ;) I can't remember having seen any of the better sticks doing the Spraying Spiral of Death...
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I thought my shooting sucked, but I'm average:D
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I'm averaging 8-9% for the past 6 tours or so...
Funny thing is, I think I'm too free with the ammo. I spray away, I take bad shots, I lead targets under my nose, etc etc....
Oh well, I always thought 10% was the "good accuracy" mark, never realized 6% was!
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well im superb,i got a 15.56.And i do for about 80% of the time fly american fighers and use .50cals.
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I'm confused in the game my percentages appear to be different than on the scores page.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Oh well, I always thought 10% was the "good accuracy" mark, never realized 6% was!
I think that's much up to personal intepretation where the "good accuracy" mark really is...
Those labels are just my own view on that matter, and of course I made sure that I am placed in the top categroy myself :p
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
well im superb,i got a 15.56.And i do for about 80% of the time fly american fighers and use .50cals.
yup, 50 cals are great for hit%, i think that's what hikes mine up so high
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Originally posted by storch
I'm confused in the game my percentages appear to be different than on the scores page.
I just took a look at and it they do match. Ingame .score shows 7.562 %, score page 7.56%.
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my bad I'm an idiot, I looked at the score page and it says my attack hit% is 27%+- then I looked in game it says .27+- I simply forgot to move the decimal point over.
I have flown mostly attack this tour
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I would wager the vast majority of high % fly K4's squeezing off the individual tater at 200...aside from that, I'm with MWL:aok
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
dumping ammo weight does help plane performance even if only in small fractions.
Losing 40lbs on a 10,000lb machine won't help you. If that were the case, Fw190 pilots would fire off 400 of their 20mm rounds, saving FAR more than the cowling MG weight would save them, and still allowing them enough ammo for many kills.
If that were the case, spit pilots would ONLY fly at 25% fuel, get 1 kill, and RTB for more fuel.
At a certain point, saving weight is useless.
Firing off the lesser guns to save weight is beyond useless, especially in the heavier planes.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
yup, 50 cals are great for hit%, i think that's what hikes mine up so high
Mines usually better when I fly the 109 actually, I kept it around 25% for most of an AvA tour once.
Pee planes I keep in the mid teens.
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WOO HOO!! I'm average.
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Firmly in the average sector.............. my gunnery has always sucked in this game
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I'm "superb" (15%+) which makes sense, as I hold gunnery in very high esteem. I never vulch, or fly tater slingers so that isn't the reason. In a MA packed with people gunnery is perhaps the most important skill, so as to kill as quickly as possible. Next would be SA, then the actual flying skill itself...
I agree the stats are interesting. I did a similar breadown a while back for my own amusement and got exactly the same average 3-4 years ago. From my own subjective observations I will say that the vast majority of people I run into are definately spray n' prayers which would account for the low average hit %. Then there's the folks who shoot at ground stuff in fighter mode. As a rule of thumb I will always score as attack if there's a chance the sortie will take me near the enemy's field, solving that dilemma. But, then again those that vulch want to be in fighter mode for the vulchfest...
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
well im superb,i got a 15.56.And i do for about 80% of the time fly american fighers and use .50cals.
Vans the only reason your Hit % is that high is cause in fighter mode all you do is cherry pick afk targets or people already in fights.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
dumping ammo weight does help plane performance even if only in small fractions.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Lusche
I just took a look at and it they do match. Ingame .score shows 7.562 %, score page 7.56%.
Actually Lusche it is different when you look up your score in game, when you goto roster and click on your score the decimal point is in the wrong place so your hit percentage looks alot lower then it is. So if you have a hit percentage of 7.562% it looks something like .007562% in game.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
...In a MA packed with people gunnery is perhaps the most important skill, so as to kill as quickly as possible...
Agreed - my cr@p gunnery is the single biggest factor in my decidedly average scoring tour after tour.
I just cannot turn good positions into quick kills with any regularity.
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If you "superb" guys had a "sure fire" <---- pune intended..... way to teach good gunnery, you could make some good money. I know I'd be happy to pay for that !
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Hmm, consistantly in the good range here... I guess I need a little more work.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Losing 40lbs on a 10,000lb machine won't help you. If that were the case, Fw190 pilots would fire off 400 of their 20mm rounds, saving FAR more than the cowling MG weight would save them, and still allowing them enough ammo for many kills.
If that were the case, spit pilots would ONLY fly at 25% fuel, get 1 kill, and RTB for more fuel.
At a certain point, saving weight is useless.
Firing off the lesser guns to save weight is beyond useless, especially in the heavier planes.
originaly posted by lynx
:rolleyes:
please, either of you, show me where i said i dump ammo or where i said it makes a HUGE difference.......
it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true.
:furious
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My hit percentage depends on how the plane I'm shooting flies.
I have a Logitech 3D Extreme and if it's a straight 6'oc shot I miss like crazy.
If it's a deflection shot, where I'm pulling back on the stick, I'm okay.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
If you "superb" guys had a "sure fire" <---- pune intended..... way to teach good gunnery, you could make some good money. I know I'd be happy to pay for that !
I can only speak for myself. Part of the secret is simply shooting less! Don't fire at extreme ranges, and only do short bursts. Usually I fire only 1/2 sec bursts when attacking fighters. In planes like the 109F, where you need a bit more time on target due to low lethality of it's gun package, I try to fire at D200 or less. Also I tend to avoid pure 6 oclock shots, slight deflection shots work much better for me because of the bigger target profile.
Taking a view from a victim's perspective, I am way more worried about a con at D600 on my six that is NOT shooting than about one who is bazing away...
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Originally posted by Lusche
Also I tend to avoid pure 6 oclock shots, slight deflection shots work much better for me because of the bigger target profile.
That's exactly right. I too hate pure 6 shots. I fly only planes with good nose low deflection view just so I can shoot planes that are turning without it being a "blind" shot. That is one big reason I went back to shooting with tracers on, I actually want the guy to see them and break...
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
please, either of you, show me where i said i dump ammo or where i said it makes a HUGE difference.......
it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true.
:furious
Nowhere did you say YOU dumped ammo and nowhere did I imply you dumped ammo BUT the bit YOU omitted was
It don't matter a RATS ARSE
Perpetuate the myth why don't ya. I'll tell you this though. I fly a spit 100% + drops and I fight it until the drop is empty. Same goes for me Hurri 2C 100% + drops. Rarely do I jettison the drops until empty. Surely fuel weighs more than ammo.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better:rolleyes:
There are other reasons for dumping the bb's, but you know all so I assume you know what they are :)
edit: just noticed you never fly the A5, maybe you should try it to understand the fuel distribution and CoG issues 1800 rounds of bb's makes.
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I prefer to empty my BB's into enemies. And don't say you can shoot nobody down with them...
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Originally posted by LYNX
It don't matter a RATS ARSE
Perpetuate the myth why don't ya. I'll tell you this though. I fly a spit 100% + drops and I fight it until the drop is empty. Same goes for me Hurri 2C 100% + drops. Rarely do I jettison the drops until empty. Surely fuel weighs more than ammo.
congratualtions! you just made a tit of yourself.
im glad you could show us your methods for fuel consumption, and somehow think it relates to an ammo weight issue. If i ever want to fly like you, which is doubtfull, i will take your advice.
now, in layman's terms for the mentally challenged.....
the weight you carry plays a part in the performance of the aircraft.
ammo = weight
to say it is a myth that having less ammo reduces weight and therefore improves performance, is comical.
but then for your style of flying, Lynx, i expect it does not 'matter a rat's arse'
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Well, this is funny actually. I see people dumping the BBs from a spit in the DA thinking it will make a difference. I've seen people dumping some of the P51 50 cals to get an edge. Then you have the people plaing with their trim in the midle of the fight etc. Trust me, it wont help you.
Maybe in real life it made a difference. Here it does not or it is so small that you wont notice it. I always fly with 50% fuel in the DA. Guess what, makes no difference. The fight is lost or won in the first few seconds and the variables that come into play are so many that a few lbs of ammo really don't matter.
One more time; I am talking about the game and not real life
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
If you "superb" guys had a "sure fire" <---- pune intended..... way to teach good gunnery, you could make some good money. I know I'd be happy to pay for that !
My gunnery at the end of each tour varies from 10% to 14%. There are some basic factors involved.
1) Tight convergence. I'll use 250 to a max of 300 depending on the plane i.e spits are all set to 250 with all guns. P51, P47 50 Cals I set 275 F6F I set 300. Yaks I put the cannon out 25 yards longer than the other guns. These seem to work for me.
2) Up close and personal when shooting. Much prefer to be in 200 range but will shoot at 400 into 200. Hate shooting beyond 400 but if it's a sitting duck I may have a go. Bombers you can hardly miss so I'll be firing at 600 in a fast close.
3) The bouncy stick. What a complete pisser it is if you can't get ride of the bounce. There's lots of sticks out there but all I can say to maybe help is "DEAD BAND"....good look with that.
Once you have the basics sorted it's very much down to when and when not to shoot. Ideal shot is large profile close in 200 or less when the con is turning. My favourite shot is a high G under nose lead shot in a spit but that's just me. I consider level 6 chasing a hard or ammo expending shot unless their not aware of you, in which case it's a sitter. I'll force or wait for a cons profile on the whole but that's easier said than done when it's 2 or 3 on 1, so SNAP shots have to be perfected. Only experience is going to aford you that skill.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
well im superb,i got a 15.56.And i do for about 80% of the time fly american fighers and use .50cals.
50 cals and MG's are easy to high hit %, nothing special.
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What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
If you "superb" guys had a "sure fire" <---- pune intended..... way to teach good gunnery, you could make some good money. I know I'd be happy to pay for that !
Don't shoot until you're sure of the kill. :)
And as for BBs being able to kill- if I can take out B-17s with a pair of .50s or an F4U and a TBM with a pair of 7.7s, don't tell me BBs aint lethal if you can actually hit something important. Just gotta aim for the pilot or the fuel tank. :)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
:rofl :aok
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
:huh
no idea where that came from...
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Lusche I would find your research very interesting if you could eliminate bomber kills in the hit% category.
Going after buffs in 50cal planes is the easiest way to raise your hit %
If we had stats from pure fighter to fighter kills im confident the %'s would be even lower.
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Under a bridge, I suspect, waiting for people to pass over before hopping out and scaring them.....
What? I didn't say it!
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Batfink me ol fruit you said
dumping ammo weight does help plane performance even if only in small fractions.
please, either of you, show me where i said i dump ammo or where i said it makes a HUGE difference....... it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true.
To which I said
It don't matter a RATS ARSE
A paltry amount of ammo weight ain't worth Jack watermelon when it comes down to it. Your either going to get shot down or your doing the shooting down. I for one would prefer to go into a fight fully tooled up mate. Nothing worse than running outta ammo when you have the edge especially, I would imagine, if you pissed the ammo away needlessly.:rolleyes:
Half the folks reading this will take it that you mean pissing ammo away does indeed give an edge. Like I said you carry on punting the myth. It'll make no difference to me. :D
As for my analogy of being loaded to the gunnel's with fuel. One would think fuel weighs more than ammo. Now I'm aware I'm not the best in here but I'll wager I hold me own. So I must be at a clear disadvantage every time I up with 100% + drops + all me bleedin ammo.:rolleyes:
I must be easy prey for those guys with just 30% fuel left and half their ammo. Just putting about ruling the roost they are.....yer right.
So are you advocating blowing ammo gives you an edge because if so I say here's something for your pipe It don't matter a RATS ARSE. Smoke that.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Lusche I would find your research very interesting if you could eliminate bomber kills in the hit% category.
Going after buffs in 50cal planes is the easiest way to raise your hit %
If we had stats from pure fighter to fighter kills im confident the %'s would be even lower.
I agree. Sadly, we don't have any way to examine hit percentages seperately. That's why I said we have to be careful with interpretations, especially regarding to individual pilots.
One can, however, watch his own hit% over time. I do examine my own stats carefully (but still just for fun). And I have found that my hit% vs fighters is varying between 8% and 12% when flying standard late war rides like Tempest, D9, P51. My overall hit% is gretly boosted by killing buffs.
When I was flying the 109F exculsively for two weeks, then hit% went up to >20%, a result of going close & personal, instead of taking long range high deflection shots in a high speed monster like the Tempest.
I almost regret putting in the second graphic. It was meant a bit tongue-in-cheeck. As I have stated before I made those categories up, but some people seem to take that a tad too serious. My focus was lying on providing some statistical data, not providing reasons for some "mine is bigger than yours" like banter.
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Originally posted by LYNX
A paltry amount of ammo weight ain't worth Jack watermelon when it comes down to it. Your either going to get shot down or your doing the shooting down. I for one would prefer to go into a fight fully tooled up mate. Nothing worse than running outta ammo when you have the edge especially, I would imagine, if you pissed the ammo away needlessly.:rolleyes:
Half the folks reading this will take it that you mean pissing ammo away does indeed give an edge. Like I said you carry on punting the myth. It'll make no difference to me. :D
It makes no difference to you because of your primary ride. In some rides in makes a difference, the 190A5 in particular has far better performance with the aft tank half gone and the bb's emptied. I fly it in the 2 x 20mm configuration, and with that I can give a lot of spits a run for their money in knife fights.
There are many planes in AH which have CoG's that can be tweaked by fuel and ammo loading, and this can have a marked performance on flight,especially when you push things to the edge of the envelope.
It is not a myth, perhaps you think it is because you spend little time in such planes?
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Nice thread , some of us "care" about how we shoot , and have worked hard at it and I'll tell you why .
My Dad ( who is gone now ) was a real rifeman . He shot all his life in Alan P Goodrich Rife & Pistol Club . He made shots hunting that I couldn't believe possible . To help me remember him better I have in this silly game tried my best to shoot the very best I can . I have had alot of nice comments about my shooting in the past and it makes me feel good and remember my Dad .
So Karyra "I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner." maybe this will help you understand .
I don't see Lusche running off at all , plus he's been wonderfull help on the AH Training board plus others .
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
Why are you so angry?
C'mere big guy, let's have a hug! :D
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Why are you so angry?
C'mere big guy, let's have a hug! :D
Not angry at all, just telling the truth.
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My aim is 16-19 none vulching and rusty haha :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What some of you fail to realize is this. Who cares, if you get shot down by a "crappy pilot", is he really "crappy"? Or is it the person getting shot down that is "crappy"?
The amount of arrogance by some in here is pathetic. Some of you are "self-righteous and arrogant to begin with" which tells me that you are in need of help in other aspects of life.
I don't understand why some threads are started in this manner. Why not just come out and say what you REALLY want to say "A lot of you suck, and wish you were as good as me." At least, you'd show a little integrity by not hiding behind 50 lbs of manure, and trying to save face at the same time.
Flame away.
Ok.
Tell me in "which manner" this thread was started, and where exactly you do spot arrogance and self-righteousness?
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Originally posted by Tabasco
Don't forget the ones who hold the trigger down hoping for a lucky hit (or out of frustration) after their tail is shot off.
To which you replied:
Originally posted by Lusche
In my experience, that guys are crappy pilots/shooters anyway. ;) I can't remember having seen any of the better sticks doing the Spraying Spiral of Death...
let's not forget:
Originally posted by VansCrew1
well im superb,i got a 15.56.And i do for about 80% of the time fly american fighers and use .50cals.
Have you had enough?
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Again, some of you are "self-righteous". Leave Tabasco out of it, his was to make the point of the "reply to his post".
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vanscrew is a cocky kid, and lusche was referring to the 2 week noobs that spray all the way to the ground.
no one is being self righteous.
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Well, this was A) not the thread start and b) You did notice the smiley? You did notice the context? You care to read the actual words?
But I don't want to drag that ad infinitum, just a final statement to you:
I have to admit then when I hear the words "arrogance", "pathetic" and "self-righteous" (as in your message) YOU are not the last person on this board that comes to my mind. You have proven in many threads in the past that you do not care about other's opinions, facts or anything else. The truth is on your side, you know how this game should be played / how to have fun, and of course you do know what others are really saying regardless of the actual content of their messages. And you have opposed people not sharing your views with a feverish zeal in the past. (I do very well remember your K-61 crusade were you repatedly stated "You all say the Ki is a POS" when nobody actually said anything close to that - it was enough to question the turning ability based on varius tests)
Your agressiveness and statements like "hiding behind 50 lbs of manure" do only prove that they in fact ARE people needing "help in other aspects of life" - but you might be surprised who's really in need of it.
That's all I have to say on it, and I really do apologize to the community if I went a bit too far, but it had to be done.
And now after 2 years, my ignore filter finally gets some work :aok
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hate to say it karaya, but lusche is dead right on this one...
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Originally posted by LYNX
Batfink me ol fruit you said
dumping ammo weight does help plane performance even if only in small fractions.
please, either of you, show me where i said i dump ammo or where i said it makes a HUGE difference....... it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true.
To which I said
It don't matter a RATS ARSE
A paltry amount of ammo weight ain't worth Jack watermelon when it comes down to it. Your either going to get shot down or your doing the shooting down. I for one would prefer to go into a fight fully tooled up mate. Nothing worse than running outta ammo when you have the edge especially, I would imagine, if you pissed the ammo away needlessly.:rolleyes:
Half the folks reading this will take it that you mean pissing ammo away does indeed give an edge. Like I said you carry on punting the myth. It'll make no difference to me. :D
As for my analogy of being loaded to the gunnel's with fuel. One would think fuel weighs more than ammo. Now I'm aware I'm not the best in here but I'll wager I hold me own. So I must be at a clear disadvantage every time I up with 100% + drops + all me bleedin ammo.:rolleyes:
I must be easy prey for those guys with just 30% fuel left and half their ammo. Just putting about ruling the roost they are.....yer right.
So are you advocating blowing ammo gives you an edge because if so I say here's something for your pipe It don't matter a RATS ARSE. Smoke that.
like i said, quoted above... 'if only in small fractions'... as vulcan points out it may be alot different than you think in planes youre not accustomed to.
all i am saying here is that having less ammo on board does reduce your weight, and reducing the weight in most of these virtual planes does impact performance to some degree.
I am not advocating dumping ammo, when i fly a 190A5 i load up as much ammo and cannons as possible, just like you i like to have surplus at my disposal rather than the decrease in load weight.
as dedalos said, dumping ammo in DA isnt going to get you silky skills if you cant beat the opponent anyhow.
As Vulcan points out, in a hurricane2c you can afford to take 100% and drop tanks and it still zips around like an RV8. same with the high end spits. La7 pilot would be a fool not to load 100% every time with our X2 burn rate.
Equally, we can concede, flying the 190 weight is not an issue if you intend to fly from the advantage the whole time and not risk pushing your luck
but youre flying your arse off in a P47 trying to rope something far more nimble in a situation where 50yrds extra climb is the difference between being raked with hispano or flipping over just out of reach and doing the raking yourself. in the 190 it might make that difference between snap stalling at the critical moment or rolling a perfect manouver and lining up an easy shot that you wont ever get a second chance on.
the 'myth' as you call it is indeed very real, its a subtle thing though, not an obvious awareness, only really noticed by those that really 'feel' the virtual aircraft they fly.
if you are not pushing the plane you fly right to the edge and learning to control that fine line then obviously it 'dont matter a rats arse'
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SkyRock<----owns thread starters!:aok
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Originally posted by Lusche
Well, this was A) not the thread start and b) You did notice the smiley? You did notice the context? You care to read the actual words?
But I don't want to drag that ad infinitum, just a final statement to you:
I have to admit then when I hear the words "arrogance", "pathetic" and "self-righteous" (as in your message) YOU are not the last person on this board that comes to my mind. You have proven in many threads in the past that you do not care about other's opinions, facts or anything else. The truth is on your side, you know how this game should be played / how to have fun, and of course you do know what others are really saying regardless of the actual content of their messages. And you have opposed people not sharing your views with a feverish zeal in the past. (I do very well remember your K-61 crusade were you repatedly stated "You all say the Ki is a POS" when nobody actually said anything close to that - it was enough to question the turning ability based on varius tests)
Your agressiveness and statements like "hiding behind 50 lbs of manure" do only prove that they in fact ARE people needing "help in other aspects of life" - but you might be surprised who's really in need of it.
That's all I have to say on it, and I really do apologize to the community if I went a bit too far, but it had to be done.
And now after 2 years, my ignore filter finally gets some work :aok
I'm sorry Lusche, yer the best in the Game. That's what you want to hear! You rock because your Hit% is around 15%.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
lusche was referring to the 2 week noobs that spray all the way to the ground.
I prefer to call that the "Death Blossom" move.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I prefer to call that the "Death Blossom" move.
ohhhh I love that movie !!!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I prefer to call that the "Death Blossom" move.
Lol a salamander kilt me that way once:o
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
hate to say it karaya, but lusche is dead right on this one...
I'm sorry I don't have the "gull" to "grade other people's Hit %" and tell them they are "Poor", "Good", etc.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
It makes no difference to you because of your primary ride. In some rides in makes a difference, the 190A5 in particular has far better performance with the aft tank half gone and the bb's emptied. I fly it in the 2 x 20mm configuration, and with that I can give a lot of spits a run for their money in knife fights.
I have to concede I don't use 190's. So tonight I got ya 190A5 out for a couple of spins. Firstly I used the 2x20 2x20 2x7.9s + 100% fuel. No drop tank. Standard 275 convergence. First thing I noticed was the aft tank drains on auto. Was wondering if I should have drained the forward tank by 1/2 first but after asking was told to use the aft first. Which it does automatically. I had a half decent fight will a F4U. We traded 6's a few times. Also shot down some P51's and a b17 from a low 7 to 4 O'clock slash. Was impressed it torched the 17.
Then I did the 2x20 2x7.9s + 100% fuel. Standard convergence. Kept the tanks on auto. Now don't get me wrong when I say the following. I didn't really notice a difference to the overall flying ability. I am aware this could be ME. After all I only did 6 sorties and I am not a AH test pilot or profess to be one. However, if there was any difference I didn't notice it. Any difference wasn't an "in your face" obvious difference. Perhaps more time in the A5 would allow me an accurate opinion. In saying that though I managed 11 Kills to 5 deaths in a plane I don't use. Those 7.9's which it seems to get through with ease, reminds me how I use the spit 5. Get in close pinging away with the 303's then thump out some 20's when you know your not missing.
There are many planes in AH which have CoG's that can be tweaked by fuel and ammo loading, and this can have a marked performance on flight, especially when you push things to the edge of the envelope.
It is not a myth, perhaps you think it is because you spend little time in such planes?
I agree with you certain planes do benefit from fuels being used in a certain order, to improve their handling characteristics. Wing tanks on spit8's(auto), spit14's, Ki61's, P47N's and so on. From what I experienced from my 190 sorties tonight I come to the same conclusion. It's a myth.
You'll see guys in 110's doing it with the rear gun. I've seen guys in D3A's doing it with the rear gun and a few 190 guys blowing their BB's out.
You have some experience in 190A5's. I'll ask you to try a few sorties without waisting the BB's and you come and tell me if you still feel there's a discernable difference.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Originally posted by Vulcan
You have some experience in 190A5's. I'll ask you to try a few sorties without waisting the BB's and you come and tell me if you still feel there's a discernable difference.
Yes there is to me, but I like to fly the A5 a lot.
My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%. Empty BB's. Once engaged drop DT (autoswtiches to AFT).
I find the 20mm ammo alone is usually enough relative to the remaining fuel (full fwd, 50% aft).
The other reason is I like to know if I'm hitting with the 20mm. I fly with tracers off... not to be l33t but because tracers through my aim off (long story). So I know those hit sprites are 20mm hits :)
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Theres enough EGOS on this post to run a republican governmant..
Wait a minute,, any of you (experianced sticks) work at the white house.?
LooooooooL
froger:eek: :eek:
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Yes there is to me, but I like to fly the A5 a lot.
My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%. Empty BB's. Once engaged drop DT (autoswtiches to AFT).
I find the 20mm ammo alone is usually enough relative to the remaining fuel (full fwd, 50% aft).
The other reason is I like to know if I'm hitting with the 20mm. I fly with tracers off... not to be l33t but because tracers through my aim off (long story). So I know those hit sprites are 20mm hits :)
Sorry chap but all you've told me is your set in your ways. Clearly some habit you've gotten into some time ago. Couple of reasons makes me say this. Your manually configuring fuel when in fact the 190A5 nowadays AUTO empties the aft tank from the get go. You don't need to mess with fuel unless you want the forward tank partly drained...for what ever reason. Also time of post. You had 30 mins to evaluate flying with the full ammo load in any configurations of your choice. Your sentence Yes there is to me didn't mention anything about trying, as I requested, with a full load.
I'd say you owe it to yourself to at least have a TRY with a full BB load. I'll wager your experience now will make up for any "perceived" gains from LONG ago. As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.
Up to you friend it's your game your fun time but using the suggestion above will save you ammo for MORE kills even if you don't give a monkeys uncle about hit percent.
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Simple test is to watch E6B whilst ya empty plane of said ammo--you can 'see the pounds come off'...but as said before, 75-odd pounds in a 11,000 pound plane isn't terribly significant
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I have to agree with LYNX about wasting your BB's, I really doubt that they effect the performance of the plane enough to be worth losing the extra ammo. The trade off just doesn't seem to be worth it.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Simple test is to watch E6B whilst ya empty plane of said ammo--you can 'see the pounds come off'...but as said before, 75-odd pounds in a 11,000 pound plane isn't terribly significant
yeah that works.
i just went offline and rolled a 109A8 onto the rearm pad then shot out all the ammo.
first i did just the BBs - when i reloaded there was hardly a bump as the extra weight comes back.
Next i dumped all the ammo completely - this time there was a notable sag as the reload complete, like a fat person getting into a car.
interesting, but i never said that dumping the BBs in a 190 was hugely beneficial.
what i do say is 'it makes a difference'
i notice lynx, you havnt replied to my last post before this one. funny that.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
like i said, quoted above... 'if only in small fractions'... as vulcan points out it may be alot different than you think in planes youre not accustomed to.
all i am saying here is that having less ammo on board does reduce your weight, and reducing the weight in most of these virtual planes does impact performance to some degree.
I am not advocating dumping ammo, when i fly a 190A5 i load up as much ammo and cannons as possible, just like you i like to have surplus at my disposal rather than the decrease in load weight.
as dedalos said, dumping ammo in DA isnt going to get you silky skills if you cant beat the opponent anyhow.
As Vulcan points out, in a hurricane2c you can afford to take 100% and drop tanks and it still zips around like an RV8. same with the high end spits. La7 pilot would be a fool not to load 100% every time with our X2 burn rate.
Equally, we can concede, flying the 190 weight is not an issue if you intend to fly from the advantage the whole time and not risk pushing your luck
but youre flying your arse off in a P47 trying to rope something far more nimble in a situation where 50yrds extra climb is the difference between being raked with hispano or flipping over just out of reach and doing the raking yourself. in the 190 it might make that difference between snap stalling at the critical moment or rolling a perfect manouver and lining up an easy shot that you wont ever get a second chance on.
the 'myth' as you call it is indeed very real, its a subtle thing though, not an obvious awareness, only really noticed by those that really 'feel' the virtual aircraft they fly.
if you are not pushing the plane you fly right to the edge and learning to control that fine line then obviously it 'dont matter a rats arse'
OK Battie your a very naughty boy. Your putting words in Vulcans mouth which he didn't speak. Secondly your sending mixed messages. Thirdly you keep punting this "edge myth" malarkey contrary to your own use of the 190's. Double standard spiel. I wonder if Doom unloads his7.9's.
Whats is to be mate. You either concede It don't matter a RATS ARSE or it does. One or tuther chap.
Glad you don't advocate blowing ammo needlessly. Happy to hear you take all the ammo loads available as I do. Pleased as punch you agree with Dedalos but whats this load of bollocks
but you're flying your arse off in a P47 trying to rope something far more nimble in a situation where 50yrds extra climb is the difference between being raked with hispano or flipping over just out of reach and doing the raking yourself. in the 190 it might make that difference between snap stalling at the critical moment or rolling a perfect manouver and lining up an easy shot that you wont ever get a second chance on.
Look mate. In the analogy above you either get it right or you balls it up. It don't matter a RATS ARSE irrespective of your fuel or ammo state. That little snippet is about as water tight as the Titanic when it comes to purposely blowing ammo. In fact your arguing that your Auntie could be your Uncle if for the appropriate appendages.
You say your main points are "if only in small fractions" and " or where i said it makes a HUGE difference....... it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true. "
To which all will concede less ammo = less weight= slightly better performance. However Battie me ol fruit cake all will concede with an equally profound nod of the head, It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i notice lynx, you havnt replied to my last post before this one. funny that.
Sorry for not jumping to. R/L if you must know...read above:rolleyes:
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well, you had time to address vulcan's post right after mine, no matter. hope everything is ok for you in RL.
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lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.
as you fly out to merge the opponent says
'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'
this wouldnt matter a rat's arse to you?
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After reading everything writen here I still think that just getting rid of your BB's isn't gonna give you and edge big enough to be worth losing the extra ammo.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
well, you had time to address vulcan's post right after mine, no matter. hope everything is ok for you in RL.
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lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.
as you fly out to merge the opponent says
'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'
this wouldn't matter a rat's arse to you?
Your trying to argue your Auntie is your Uncle again. Your tying to insinuate a situation opposite to your belief as aligned with that of Dedalos.
Your obviously not going to concede the point.
Here's a thought for you. This thread was supposedly about hit% in the MA but if I'm to be drawn on any aspect of your little fantasy above I can only tell you the truth. Everyone in the MA including you and I do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight. We (collectively) have no idea what the enemy planes present fuel or ammo state is. Neither do they of ours. We fight with a limited knowledge of the enemies planes statistics and general performance. Supposedly safe in the knowledge of our own planes abilities and our present state of ammo, fuel, "E" state and our own abilities as virtual AH fighter aces:rolleyes:
Now you either win the fight or you lose. Simple as that. You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight. You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy. It isn't down to BB load outs mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth. To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
Unfortunately me old fruit cake you are starting to come across as an arse that doesn't matter.
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you didnt answer my question.
looks like im done with you seeing as all you can do is evade.
.....unless you would like to answer the 'fantasy' question i asked in the above quote.
funny how for you something like that is an example, whereas for me its a fantasy.
good day to you.
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Originally posted by LYNX
Sorry chap but all you've told me is your set in your ways. Clearly some habit you've gotten into some time ago. Couple of reasons makes me say this. Your manually configuring fuel when in fact the 190A5 nowadays AUTO empties the aft tank from the get go. You don't need to mess with fuel unless you want the forward tank partly drained...for what ever reason.
And all you've told me is you don't listen/read - possibly think through what your responding with. If a 190A5 rolls with 100% DT, which fuel drains first? Think about it.
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LYNX, there is a difference. you can definitely feel it. look at the pony for instance. at 100% fuel the aft tank is full and you can really feel it low and slow on the edge of the envelope. it feels to rear heavy.
roll it with 75% and it feels FAR more responsive.
dumping ammo does make a difference. like bat said, it's not huge, but it DOES make a difference. it's certainly not going to win a fight for you, just dumping some ammo, but it DOES make a SMALL difference.
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Originally posted by Raptor
I don't know what my hit percentage is, I am sure it is not good considering I like to shoot past squadies to make them jump:D
WHAT?!? I just checked my score hit from last tour... HOW DID I GET IN THE SUPERB CATEGORY?!? I demand a recount.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
And all you've told me is you don't listen/read - possibly think through what your responding with. If a 190A5 rolls with 100% DT, which fuel drains first? Think about it.
My mistake you did mention you used a drop tank. Hence you manually configuring fuel. I can only extend my appols :o
My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%.
If you have been following any of this thread you'll understand my position as far as ammo. Please don't let my oversight about configuring fuel above taint your opinion from what I said about ammo.
I'd say you owe it to yourself to at least have a TRY with a full BB load. I'll wager your experience now will make up for any "perceived" gains from LONG ago. As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.
regards
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Originally posted by LYNX
As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.
with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.
that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.
with the very best pilots, who usualy always beat me in the DA, niether of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.
you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.
im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
LYNX, there is a difference. you can definitely feel it. look at the pony for instance. at 100% fuel the aft tank is full and you can really feel it low and slow on the edge of the envelope. it feels to rear heavy.
roll it with 75% and it feels FAR more responsive.
dumping ammo does make a difference. like bat said, it's not huge, but it DOES make a difference. it's certainly not going to win a fight for you, just dumping some ammo, but it DOES make a SMALL difference.
You need to realise something. This was all about the AH myth of purposefully blowing ammo to give you the edge. There are many myths in AH and this is just another. I first heard this over 5 years ago when I joined AH. "umm plane modeling 5 years ago" ? A very slight perhaps but I never noticed an "edge" having tried it, and I'm more convinced now.
The "issue" here is Batfink is inconsistent throughout. Says one thing then another. I'd rather have our newbie's or anyone else for that matter understand it for what it is. And what it is is a myth.
Go back over the thread and to some extend whats about to follow and you'll see that Batfink says one thing then another. Read Bats "aah buts" and "what ifs" throughout. He will not concede it as a myth and by punting "but" and "if" is perpetuating the myth.
Major Biggles. Do you agree purposefully blowing BB's in what ever plane you use is a Myth ?
Do any of the following pastes, in light of your response to me, make any sense to you?
lynx
Now you either win the fight or you lose. Simple as that. You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight. You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy. It isn't down to BB load outs Mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth. To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
lynx
To which all will concede less ammo = less weight= slightly better performance. However Battie me ol fruit cake all will concede with an equally profound nod of the head, It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
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Originally posted by Toad
Killing ack while not in attack mode hurts your percentage, correct?
I really don't know because this stuff is pretty immaterial to me.
What counts for the whole game is how many planes with red icons blow up in front of my guns.
I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.
I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
In the same fly.
Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?
or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?
The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.
Same fly, automatically.
So simple. And so fair.
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Originally posted by HaDeSs
I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.
I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
In the same fly.
Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?
or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?
The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.
Same fly, automatically.
So simple. And so fair.
That would probably cut down on the 'point-whoring' behavior, not a bad idea, I think
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.
that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.
with the very best pilots, who usualy always beat me in the DA, niether of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.
you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.
im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.
I have to agree with Bat. That works when you are shooting someone running from a fight. In a dog fight vs a good pilot, all you will get is a 1 second firing window. You either hit and win, or in my case, you miss and lose.
However, I do think that dumping ammo will make no difference in the fight unless you are fighting your clone, lol. I have no idea if the ammo weight is modeled or not, but in either case, the variables coming in to a dog fight are so many, that even if it was modeled it would have made no difference (with the exception of fighting your clone and he is coping your every move)
Thene again, someone from HTC could have cleared this a long time ago in this thread (unless they did and I missed it). you know they have read the thread, so, what is the answer?? :confused:
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Originally posted by dedalos
I have no idea if the ammo weight is modeled or not, :
It is. You can check this in E6B, where you can see your current plane weight.
Howerver, the two factions in this discussion tend to present examples from the extreme ends of this problem to prove their point.
Fact is: Weight and weight distribution is modeled and has an effect on your plane. But the magnitude is varying with actual weight and it's distribution. Of course a fully loaded P51 with drop tanks suffers enormously, while advantage of shooting off your 100lbs MG ammo in a 190 (wich is stored close to the center of gravity!) is a more theoretical one. The choice of taking 8 guns with 425 rounds or 6 guns with 267 rounds in a P-47D has a bigger and much more noticeable effect because it's way more mass both absolutely (688lbs) as well as relative and further this mass is located far away in the wings.
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Ya can hit E6B and start firing, see plane weight drop...albeit not drastically
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Well Hello again Batfink:rolleyes:
In response to your erratic 2 part post to me above I'll reply to each part individually.
Part1 Ref:- ranging with 7.9's MG's
As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.
with all due reespect lynx, some styles of flying you wouldnt stand a chance in hell of hitting first with Mgs then banging out a few 20mm.
You make a very valid point. One of which I concur wholeheartedly especially when it comes to snap shots. However, wouldn't the snapshotie be aware of the all or nothing moment? A bit of common sense really.
that situation is only available when chasing a noob who isnt evading very much or trying to reverse the attack back onto you.
To say "is only" is a very bold statement. I think your trivialising by dismissed many situations where it is possible to get range with the MG's then bang off the cannons. A very basic example being when an opponent fluffs his rope.
with the very best pilots, who usually always beat me in the DA, neither of us ever gets more than a snapshot, there is simply no chance of what you describe happening.
Didn't say or imply there was in my reply to Vulcan's use of TRACERS OFF. Back in the real world or rather the virtual MA world Batfink :rolleyes:. We don't always fly against the very best that beat you. Not every fight is a heart stopping, white knuckle, balls out, in ya face, thumping good, blah blah blah "bloody good show" type of fight....is it ???.
Which brings us to
Part 2 ...diatribe
What on earth this has to do with anything related to my response, AS QUOTED, to Vulcan gawd only knows.
you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.
In this part of the same post we once again witness your inability to stay focused. As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents. I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said. Merely brought you back to the point. A prime example is in this very post.
Batfink....yer but what about snap shot.
Lynx........very good point I agree.
Batfink...that won't work on anything but noobs.
Lynx...many opportunities occur for ranging.
Batfink...yer but DA uber fighters.
Lynx... that's not the point
You do this "tangent" malarkey all the time. If you want to play devils advocate that's fine with me. Just do a better job of it.
In parting we have this gem.
im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.
Whats the bulletin boards got to do with the DA ? Whats this to do with ranging with MG's ? Whats this to do with the ammo myth ? or are you referring to where you went off in tangents in the "Glotty little youth" thread ?
I'll tell you what it is. It's a totally irrelevant TANGENT
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Originally posted by LYNX
As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents. I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.
as you fly out to merge the opponent says
'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'
this wouldnt matter a rat's arse to you?
so answer this above question for me then, please. unless you intend to avoid it again.
THAT ANSWER WOULD BE A START.
as for this bollocks....
Originally posted by LYNX
What on earth this has to do with anything related to my response, AS QUOTED, to Vulcan gawd only knows.
you have avoided and twisted every good point i have made...sadly.
In this part of the same post we once again witness your inability to stay focused. As with the majority of your replies with regards to the BB Myth, you wonder off in tangents. I've neither "avoided" or "twisted" anything you've said. Merely brought you back to the point. A prime example is in this very post.
Batfink....yer but what about snap shot.
Lynx........very good point I agree.
Batfink...that won't work on anything but noobs.
Lynx...many opportunities occur for ranging.
Batfink...yer but DA uber fighters.
Lynx... that's not the point
You do this "tangent" malarkey all the time. If you want to play devils advocate that's fine with me. Just do a better job of it.
In parting we have this gem.
im banging my head against a wall with you though, youre so set in your ways you wont even fight a fair one on one in the DA for fun.
Whats the bulletin boards got to do with the DA ? Whats this to do with ranging with MG's ? Whats this to do with the ammo myth ? or are you referring to where you went off in tangents in the "Glotty little youth" thread ?
I'll tell you what it is. It's a totally irrelevant TANGENT
Lynx, you poor fellow, you tried to tell me that ammo weight does not matter 'A RATS ARSE'
this is where you are wrong, blatantly and amusingly.
every single point i have tried to make in this thread has been related to your high horse provoked bullchit that the weight of ammo does not matter at all.
never once did i specify that i was only talking about the dumping of BBs in a 190. I have only ever been trying to dispell the constant flow of misinformation you have spouted at the new guys about ammo weight not mattering a rat's arse.
You know what makes me chuckle the most?
both of us have made such a pig's ear of this thread that the likely hood of a new guy paying any attention to what we are debating is now next to nothing.
:lol
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this whole campaign i had an average hit % of 12-13 before i left then a week before i ended my campaign i turned of tracers and hit % plummeted to 9.3 or something....
and i typically do take crazy shots i guess i just acutally hit sometimes go figure:p
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Originally posted by HaDeSs
I have wright it many times that separation of Attack and Fighter modes
is wrong.
I explain.. what more simple and more fair than to add attack points when you attack in gvs, lets say,
and fighter points when you kill poor pilots. Automatically.
In the same fly.
Why i should loose points (if someone cares) if i kill a ack with 90-100%
accuracy because i have choose fighter mode?
or doesnt count a kill after a dogfight if i was out for attack mode on gvs ?
The manual selection of modes must stop.
Points must go in attack when you kill targets on ground and on fighter when you kill everything who fly.
Same fly, automatically.
So simple. And so fair.
If you are killing the acks in fighter mode, the only stat it adversely affects is your hit percentage -- and then only a little if you are a good shot and kill the ack right away.
Killing planes still helps your attack score.
Splitting hit percentages between fighter and attack automatically would be impossible -- how can you code so that the game decides accurately what stat to affect when you miss your target?
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Batfink
In answer to your post above
Batfink
so answer this above question for me then, please. unless you intend to avoid it again.
which was
Batfink
lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat. as you fly out to merge the opponent says 'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge' this wouldn't matter a rat's arse to you?
To this I've already replied but here it is again.
LYNX
Here's a thought for you. This thread was supposedly about hit% in the MA but if I'm to be drawn on any aspect of your little fantasy above I can only tell you the truth. Everyone in the MA including you and I do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight.
We (collectively) have no idea what the enemy planes present fuel or ammo state is. Neither do they of ours. We fight with a limited knowledge of the enemies planes statistics and general performance. Supposedly safe in the knowledge of our own planes abilities and our present state of ammo, fuel, "E" state and our own abilities as virtual AH fighter aces
Now you either win the fight or you lose. Simple as that. You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight. You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy. It isn't down to BB load outs mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth. To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .
Unfortunately me old fruit cake you are starting to come across as an arse that doesn't matter.
The answer above clearly wasn't good enough for you. FACTUAL in it's ethos I thought. Equates exactly to the hypothetical question you posed but within the realms of reality , in our virtual world. By saying "do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight." (in bold above) you need to read that as..... I wouldn't and don't give a rats arse if the opponent has less fuel and less ammo equaling less weight because we do it day in day out.
Batfink
Lynx, you poor fellow, you tried to tell me that ammo weight does not matter 'A RATS ARSE' this is where you are wrong, blatantly and amusingly.
Really? Guys that believe the ammo myth generally only do it in a few planes. Meaning I haven't seen this done in every plane just a few types typically 190's and 110's. I have seen it done in others but not so prolifically.
Lets have a look at some ammo weights.
190A5 MG's 7.9's weigh in at 117Lbs and as previously posted are stored near centre of gravity. 117Lbs to me and you is a little over 7 Stones. That's equal to a chilled. I weigh approximately 200 Lb that's about 13 Stone.
110G2 7.9 rear gun ammo was harder to define because you have to unload on the fly. I approximated it roughly 85Lb that's a little over 5 Stone. 25Lb less than a bag of spuds.
blatantly and amusingly.[/B] you say! Very apt choice of words at this juncture. These are the weights the myth prevails to. Their a fraction percentage wise of the overall planes weight. These are the weights that you keep punting as making a difference. These my friend are the weights that I say don't matter a rats arse.
Now your just trying to riddle out of the argument of the BB myth. Lets have a look at what prompted your reply in the beginning.
LYNX
Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better
Now you come up this this utter utter bollock.
Batfink
every single point i have tried to make in this thread has been related to your high horse provoked bullchit that the weight of ammo does not matter at all. never once did i specify that i was only talking about the dumping of BBs in a 190. I have only ever been trying to dispell the constant flow of misinformation you have spouted at the new guys about ammo weight not mattering a rat's arse.
I concur you wasn't specifically talking of the 190. We both used it as an example after it was mentioned in a replies. However Batfink, to even suggest it's never been about BB's leaves me with shear contempt of your inadequacies.
Your initial reply was to the BB myth------>>Include those that believe the myths of emptying out BB's because the plane handles better
Everyone else following this thread and our replies to each other have understood it to be about the BB MYTH yet in this late stage even after you have made previous references to BB's your saying it's not.
Batfink
but i never said that dumping the BBs in a 190 was hugely beneficial what i do say is 'it makes a difference'
Batfink you are THE ARSE THAT DOES NOT MATTER.
To anyone reading this thread the myth is about deliberately blowing out the small calibre ammo because it gives you magical powers that will allow you to vanquish your enemies. IT"S COMPLETE BOLLOCKS
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Bat, I didn't have time to read every post but I have to agree with Lynx on this one. I don't think dumping bb's makes a difference.
I always fly with full fuel in every plane (except heavy bombers) and sometimes drop-tanks. Most times I won't drop drop tanks until they are empty, even in a fight. Particularily in Spits, I often find myself RTBing with the sipper still attached.
Fuel weight has a much larger effect than ammo weight and I hardly notice the additional fuel anymore. If fact, I would venture to guess that the drag created from the drop tank is more noticable than the extra weight itself which explains why the sleek sippers on the Spits I don't notice but the big drops on the F4U's for instance, I'm anxious to get rid of.