Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: carhint on July 18, 2007, 11:40:18 PM
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Tonight, in mid war, we had a NIT change sides and spot and drop supplies for the NITS. (That is in addition to turning our CV around etc etc). We lost a 8.5K airbase that we had captured that morning that we were using to hit the Nits hard with. Now I do not like losing important bases, but I hate it when a spy is involved.
As pay back I went Nit for a while and spotted and dropped supplies. Out of a sense of fair play I told my new “team mates” what I was doing. They were not happy. I understand. They claimed that they had “no idea” etc etc. Hard to believe. (We lost two guys defending the downed town because the guy was spotting.) The Nits told me that I was nuts and even lying – I maybe nuts (I’m taking this game too seriously) but the facts from my point of view were not misrepresented.
I do not like spies; they take away from the strategy and tactical aspect of the game.
And YES I know – there is nothing in the rule book about not being a spy – just a code of conduct that some of us wish to follow. (BTW, I do not think that what I did was spying – I was pretty open about it – in part because I wanted to let them know that I was there so that they could either keep their communications to themselves – and in part to work them up – yep – many of them were not happy - although I did receive one or two expressions of love form one Nit with a sense of humor - and yes I still love you too!)
I think that there has got to be a way to kill your own country member if you need/want to. Real world spies were killed all the time. I do not know – is there a technical limitation within the game that stops this from happening? I’m assuming that there is a difference between collisions and gun fire. (I think that if friendly collisions were allowed then when two guys tried to up at the same time from the same runway you would have problems. Image losing a 262 before you even take off!). But there has to be a way of shooting a “friendly”. Maybe it could be an option so that newbes don’t go around killing own team members by mistake. Maybe it could be a non-permanent option i.e. you would have to select the option every time you upped.
This is just an idea to close a game weakness against those who game the game.
To the Nits not involved in the affair – my apologies.
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I think that maybe folks need to remember it's a game and not take it nearly as serious as they do :)
I can barely remember what country I'm flying for when I fly. Could be I'm spying on myself?
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If there was a way to kill friendlies, it would be used for all kinds of reasons. Dolts would shoot friendly planes just for the fun of it, envious guys would shoot you just because they don't like you. Imagine limping home from a sortie with 5 kills only to be shot down by a "friendly" pilot? You could trust nobody and after a short time, chaos would reign.
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All right all you spies, apologize and all will be forgiven. Now, where did I put my head choping axe?????
:noid
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There were spies in WWII! :noid
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Nobody likes spies, but going to the other country to spy on them to get revenge is just childish. If you see someone or suspect someone is doing this let HTC know about it and let them handle it, going to the other country and spying on them is the wrong way to go about it.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
There were spies in WWII! :noid
but what happened to them when they were caught ! :noid
P,s. isnt doing the same thing back to them the same as being the spy in the 1st place??
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Of course there were spies in WWII. But when you caught them you would shot them.
Again – I was doing I was open about for the reasons stated above. And yep - it was not much fun for me either.
I have never heard of HTC dealing with this issue when reported. Granted I have never reported it – has anyone?
I agree that being able to kill a fellow team might cause issues – but what my squad mates and I went through tonight was no fun either. Again I think that it might work IF it is an option that you select in the hanger for just that flight. I do not know – maybe it could be limited by semaphores so that you could only select it once a day or something like that.
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Originally posted by carhint
Of course there were spies in WWII. But when you caught them you would shot them.
Then let's round up all of the AH spies and do the same!!!!!
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:noid :noid
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Originally posted by carhint
I have never heard of HTC dealing with this issue when reported. Granted I have never reported it – has anyone?
thats because this forum isnt the place for this ... it gets taken up directly with HTC thru email .
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Turning off killshooter is most stupid way to fight spies. And most ineffective too.
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:huh that may be one of the worst ideas ive heard in a long time
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I too seriously doubt HTC would do anything about it even if you had a film depicting each act. Map problem...... what map problem?
Your only real course of action is to imagine how pathetic this persons real life must be for them to feel some sense of accomplishment by stooping to such lowly levels.
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As pay back I went Nit for a while and spotted and dropped supplies
2 wrongs always make a right... how old are you, 12?
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if he switched countrys to resupply....just kill him resupplying :D
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Originally posted by carhint
Again � I was doing I was open about for the reasons stated above. And yep - it was not much fun for me either.
Then why did you do it? Why would you punish a whole country because one of it's players switched to your side to spy? You obviously didn't like it when it was done to your country, so why would you do it? Like VWE said "2 wrongs don't make a right."
As for being able to kill your own country men, thats just a terrible idea.
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If killshooter was disabled it would be mahem. Noobs, drunks and idiots would shoot at you all day and vice versa.
The squeaker problem on range vox would be solved tho. I would put them out of their misery everytime they would get witin annoying range. :lol
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How about why care about how others with to spend their 14.95?
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last night in one of the late arenas i got called a cheat because i found out where our captured cv was being hidden.
I took off in a set of lancs flew 8 sectors searcing for it then when i found it and was shot down i got pmed being called a cheat and a lier.
now anyone with a brain would know where to look for it and just had to get positive id on it.
why cheat and spy when all u need is to use your brain and some tatics.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
The squeaker problem on range vox would be solved tho. I would put them out of their misery everytime they would get witin annoying range. :lol
:rofl
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Originally posted by VWE
2 wrongs always make a right... how old are you, 12?
I see nothing wrong with what he did. You know what they say about "paybacks".
HTC isn't going to do anything about it, it's up to the community to address it.
Personally, I think spying like that is a rotten thing to do. There is almost zero risk unlike RL, so some will do it just because they can't "win" any other way, it's weak. I would say the original spy was the 12 year old. If I was in his situation, I just might have done the same thing. He was open and honest about what he was doing, so why not? If the other side was so mad he did what he did, they should have addressed it with their own spy, and the problem would have gone away.
A few months after I started playing, I lost several tanks attacking a town. There was another tank sitting on the hill that had a green icon and he was never fired on for over a half an hour. I was sure he was a spy. I almost changed sides and blew him up, but I was trying not to be that way. I should have...
If he wants to spy, let him, but he should be prepared to pay, just like a real spy :)
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HTC want people to switch sides, so he's not oing to slow it down any, and seeing "spying" ain't really cheating, they most likely won't do anything about it either.
Yes spying is low and dweebish. However, if I had been you, I would have switched side and had my buddies spot him for me. I would have spent all my time bombing him and killing him as many times as I could. He would have been too busy dodging me to be a help to his buddies. Remember, HT has said that this "game" is all about "pissing the other guy off" :t
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Originally posted by Scca
If I was in his situation, I just might have done the same thing. He was open and honest about what he was doing, so why not? If the other side was so mad he did what he did, they should have addressed it with their own spy, and the problem would have gone away.
You can't be serious? So if someone goes over to another country and spies on them why should the entire country that he came from pay for? It's not their fault that guy went over to another country and spied, so why should they all pay for it by you going over and doing it to their country. Say I'm on the Bish side and some guy goes over to your side(lets just say the Rook's) and spies on them, why should my country be held at fault and have you come over and spy on us? You can't punnish an entire side just because of one loser. And tell me how a country is supposed handle someone who has gone over to another side and is spying on them? You can't communicate with someone who's in another country accept on 200, and how can they stop him if they want to? Again as VME said "2 wrongs don't make a right"
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Originally posted by trax1
You can't be serious? So if someone goes over to another country and spies on them why should the entire country that he came from pay for? It's not their fault that guy went over to another country and spied, so why should they all pay for it by you going over and doing it to their country. Say I'm on the Bish side and some guy goes over to your side(lets just say the Rook's) and spies on them, why should my country be held at fault and have you come over and spy on us? You can't punnish an entire side just because of one loser.
Sure punish the whole country. If you were recieving info and not doing anything to stop it, I'm ok with it. You were in the perfect position to bomb the spy till he stopped, save me the trouble of switching side to come do it myself.
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I had just joined the fight when I started hearing this big whiner going on and on about cheating. I don't understand why you made youreself so misserable over a spy. Most of us on the nit side had no idea. So we put up with what you were doing and took over the base you were spying for. Actually I had a really good time taking on your squaddies when they knew where every one was. The only thing is, I asked you to bring troops several times and you never did. :D
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These "mommy! Mommy!" threads are the best.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Sure punish the whole country. If you were recieving info and not doing anything to stop it, I'm ok with it. You were in the perfect position to bomb the spy till he stopped, save me the trouble of switching side to come do it myself.
How do you know that the other country is reciving the info, when you go to another country you really don't have anyway to talk to people in the other country, except squadies, but most squads in the game would never allow a member to do something like that, and if they do there just a squad full of squeeker losers anyways.
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Originally posted by trax1
You can't be serious? So if someone goes over to another country and spies on them why should the entire country that he came from pay for? It's not their fault that guy went over to another country and spied, so why should they all pay for it by you going over and doing it to their country. Say I'm on the Bish side and some guy goes over to your side(lets just say the Rook's) and spies on them, why should my country be held at fault and have you come over and spy on us? You can't punnish an entire side just because of one loser. And tell me how a country is supposed handle someone who has gone over to another side and is spying on them? You can't communicate with someone who's in another country accept on 200, and how can they stop him if they want to? Again as VME said "2 wrongs don't make a right"
I am serious..
If an entire country benefits from a spies actions, then the entire country can "pay" for the one losers actions (eye for an eye).
Since it's not "cheating", just dweeby, I say return the favor if you know it's happening. It's kind of like boot camp. When one soldier screws up, everyone pays. Makes the unit self policing
When I was young my mama always said "Don't you dare start a fight. If however someone hits you, punch them back twice as hard, then next time they will think twice about hitting you."
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Originally posted by Scca
I am serious..
If an entire country benefits from a spies actions, then the entire country can "pay" for the one losers actions (eye for an eye).
Since it's not "cheating", just dweeby, I say return the favor if you know it's happening. It's kind of like boot camp. When one soldier screws up, everyone pays. Makes the unit self policing
When I was young my mama always said "Don't you dare start a fight. If however someone hits you, punch them back twice as hard, then next time they will think twice about hitting you."
Yeah but what I'm saying is how do you know that the whole country is benifiting from it? Like I said when your in another country you can't communicate to people in another country, except on 200, or through a squadie, but in all the time I've been playing AH I've never seen someone telling a country that they have a spy and the spy said the cv or whatever is in this loc, and I think even if someone would most people in the country wouldn't put up with it because like you said it's dweebish.
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Originally posted by trax1
Yeah but what I'm saying is how do you know that the whole country is benifiting from it? Like I said when your in another country you can't communicate to people in another country, except on 200, or through a squadie, but in all the time I've been playing AH I've never seen someone telling a country that they have a spy and the spy said the cv or whatever is in this loc, and I think even if someone would most people in the country wouldn't put up with it because like you said it's dweebish.
If they knew a spy said something about a CV, then they too were or had a spy, right?
Remember what the original poster said he did Originally posted by carhint
[...]As pay back I went Nit for a while and spotted and dropped supplies. [...]
Effecting the "entire" country is a bit of a stretch, but for sure it was paybacks consistant with the crime IMHO.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I think that maybe folks need to remember it's a game and not take it nearly as serious as they do :)
I can barely remember what country I'm flying for when I fly. Could be I'm spying on myself?
Have to be spies....hell SAPP has people flying on all countries. :noid
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why not accept the fact that the practice does exist and move on? for instance there are members of the FoSG squads who remain in the squad but for whatever reason PM me with the location of CVs and stuff like that. since I don't care much about the war and only occassionally up bombers I generally do nothing with that information. the information I do use is when altitude and bomber strength is passed on to me. that is why you see me at FoSG raids so often I have a secret admirer within the FoSGs, this is complete unsolicited and I'm indifferent as to whether I ever hear from these players again. personally it smacks of sharp practice and that isn't right, even in a game hence this post. they may not be FoSGs squad members but perhaps players who tune into their frequency, I never bother to look on the roster to see if they are actually in that squad.
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I pretty much agree Carhint.
Also, don't look for principles on the bulletin boards.
Some posters mock merely.
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Originally posted by Scca
If they knew a spy said something about a CV, then they too were or had a spy, right?
Remember what the original poster said he did
Effecting the "entire" country is a bit of a stretch, but for sure it was paybacks consistant with the crime IMHO.
It's just childish and kinda dweebish to even want to get payback, thats all I've been saying
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Originally posted by trax1
It's just childish and kinda dweebish to even want to get payback, thats all I've been saying
yes it's pretty stupid behavior on both sides of this issue.
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Originally posted by storch
yes it's pretty stupid behavior on both sides of this issue.
amen
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Originally posted by carhint
(We lost two guys defending the downed town because the guy was spotting.)
That is terible news. Could someone lease organize a memorial flight fpr them? Please let me know when and in what plane to be.
Big to the ones fallen for their chess piece
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Originally posted by trax1
Then why did you do it? Why would you punish a whole country because one of it's players switched to your side to spy? You obviously didn't like it when it was done to your country, so why would you do it? Like VWE said "2 wrongs don't make a right."
As for being able to kill your own country men, thats just a terrible idea.
i have to agree....if killshooter was turned off kermit would never let me land any kills...bad nuff he uses me for bait as is. hehe
oh and......the spyin thing...sounds like BOTH yall need to get a life...2 wrongs dont make a right, our mom's taught us that long time ago back in like kindergarden. if the first guy actually took the time to do something like that it means...he NEEDS a life...and if u actually took the time to do what u did..then u NEED a life too. lets all remember one thing. ITS A ONLINE GAME!
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Originally posted by dedalos
That is terible news. Could someone lease organize a memorial flight fpr them? Please let me know when and in what plane to be.
Big to the ones fallen for their chess piece
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
That is terible news. Could someone lease organize a memorial flight fpr them? Please let me know when and in what plane to be.
Big to the ones fallen for their chess piece
NOW DAT FUNNY RIGHT THUR!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
That is terible news. Could someone lease organize a memorial flight fpr them? Please let me know when and in what plane to be.
Big to the ones fallen for their chess piece
:rofl
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this could be fixed...disable killshooter for 1 hour on players that switch sides.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
this could be fixed...disable killshooter for 1 hour on players that switch sides.
Players would stop jumping to the outnumbered side, which is especially important in EW/MW arenas.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I think that maybe folks need to remember it's a game and not take it nearly as serious as they do :)
I can barely remember what country I'm flying for when I fly. Could be I'm spying on myself?
I bet you remember your squads mates though and I bet you talk to them too, no mater what side your on. To me that is what should be disabled cross country coms. Squadmates can change sides and still talk on sqd vox
type on sqd channel. BS.
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Originally posted by Bingolong
I bet you remember your squads mates though and I bet you talk to them too, no mater what side your on. To me that is what should be disabled cross country coms. Squadmates can change sides and still talk on sqd vox
type on sqd channel. BS.
That would never stop any "serious" spying, because you can still reach your squaddies via instant messengers, or other game voice programs.
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Originally posted by Lusche
That would never stop any "serious" spying, because you can still reach your squaddies via instant messengers, or other game voice programs.
Still should'nt happen in the game. If they really feel the need to go out of there way fine, should'nt be facilitated in the game.
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one would think that all that's left of this horse is mush and sludge by now
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Originally posted by Bingolong
Still should'nt happen in the game. If they really feel the need to go out of there way fine, should'nt be facilitated in the game.
You know I really don't think spying is that big of a problem that it needs changes like that to be made to the game. I'd have to say that just about all of the squads in AH don't condone spying, nore use it during their game play.
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Why not turn killshooter off? Would that really be so bad? I fly FSO's all the time where killshooter if off, and we don't have any problems at all. Frankly, if I cut in front of someone and get a load of lead up the tail, I deserve to get shot down.
Consider:
1. If some dweeb starts vulching his own side, what would happen? His country would hear all about it on country channel, and a bunch of folks would up and kill him about a hundred times. Suddenly it is open season on .
2. If someone is busted spying, everyone in the country gets the pleasure of hunting him down and killing him.
3. If some dweeb is constantly stealing kills, or cutting in front of you while you are shooting at an enemy, you get to blast him into pieces instead of blasting yourself to pieces.
Would the loss of killshooter really make the game worse? I don't think so - just adds some more realism to the game. It isn't like friendly fire didn't happen IRL.
EagleDNY
$.02
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
Why not turn killshooter off? Would that really be so bad? I fly FSO's all the time where killshooter if off, and we don't have any problems at all. Frankly, if I cut in front of someone and get a load of lead up the tail, I deserve to get shot down.
Consider:
1. If some dweeb starts vulching his own side, what would happen? His country would hear all about it on country channel, and a bunch of folks would up and kill him about a hundred times. Suddenly it is open season on .
2. If someone is busted spying, everyone in the country gets the pleasure of hunting him down and killing him.
3. If some dweeb is constantly stealing kills, or cutting in front of you while you are shooting at an enemy, you get to blast him into pieces instead of blasting yourself to pieces.
Would the loss of killshooter really make the game worse? I don't think so - just adds some more realism to the game. It isn't like friendly fire didn't happen IRL.
EagleDNY
$.02
You can by no means compare FSO with MA population. Here you have a selected few pilots, most seasoned veterans, bound by their squads& united by a common goal and under CM supervision - there you have the anarchy of the MA, full of lone wolfes, "fun" squads, deranged individuals and so on...
So you offered us a few "just" reason why/when to kill a friendly con. It doesn't even matter if I agree to them, pretty soon people will make up their own reasons to shoot at a friendly:
"He is a spy!" - is he really?
"He stole my kill"
"Hes not helping the war effort!"
"He's a tard"
"Scorepotatos should be shot!"
"I kill all friendly buffs, because they ruin our furballs"
"You didn't check my six last week"
"He is a cheater!"
"LOL, he had 10 kills when I shot him!"
Add to that the noobs that don't know what a green icon means (and prolly would never learn that way) and the quite huge amount of people just lovin to create havoc....
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Lusche is right on the money on this thread.
I do, as a side note, think HTC should lengthen the time that a player can hop from one country and return....96 hours ought to do it.
68ROX
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The old original Air Warrior had FF on if I recall... it was a LONG time ago and I do have trouble rememebring stuff that happened this morning.
Wasn't there the old PNG status after 2 or 3 FF incidents?
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Originally posted by Lusche
Add to that the noobs that don't know what a green icon means (and prolly would never learn that way) and the quite huge amount of people just lovin to create havoc....
And ofcorse, my "no landing list". Killing Jaxxo and Hub on landing match easyer than sending an invite while firing over their head and chk6-ing them 50ft of the runway :rofl
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Sorry you lost your 8.5k base you captured while Bish were milking arean with a 18 ENY penalty.:O
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Originally posted by dedalos
And ofcorse, my "no landing list". Killing Jaxxo and Hub on landing match easyer than sending an invite while firing over their head and chk6-ing them 50ft of the runway :rofl
^--- Do I have to say more???? :rofl
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I really wish the killshooter was off in this game. It adds another sense of realism. I remember other online flight sims that didn't have killshooter on and everything went fine (although the communities were generally smaller and mostly over the age of 18). Every once in a while someone would come along shooting friendlies but this was very rare and the people were soon booted or PnG'ed. I think it's kinda sad that something like killshooter needs to be there (although I agree that it does). I remember when flight sims used to attract more mature players who were interested in learning ACM and not those who would ruin others fun just for their own pitiful sense of enjoyment.
my 2 cents
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If people went back to realize this is a game and not take it so seriously there wouldn't be spies. They'd be staying in their country drinking beer and laughing.
Geez.
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
one would think that all that's left of this horse is mush and sludge by now
Ha, these folks will start making horse hair brushes before too long. Give it some time.
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ks turned off in the MA's doesnt work ...
One time i was limping my hairdryer home ... one eng out ,wingtips blown off ,all shot to hell ... i go back two grids behind the lines to get a clean attempt to land .
so here i am circling in and this noob has to up and try to kill me... what a joke . if ks was off i woulda been toast and very very po-ed .
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Why can't damage from friendly fire be turned off. Turn off KS and friendly fire damage at same time. I never got it.
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Ohh stop the whining about spies already!
Funny how people like to point to This could or coulcnt be done IRL when it suits them. and complain about things that were real when it doesnt.
Were there spies IRL? I Do beleive there were
Are they as big a problem in the game as people make out? Naaa
Most of the time you dont even need to have a spy to tell whats going on.
and half the time even when people do know whats going on. People are so caught up in whatever it is they are doing at the moment they dont bother to do anything about it anyway.
If someone switched sides and stole your CV and turned it Find someone with a higher rank on your side ot steal it back and turn it back.
sheesh Show some initiative.
Dont turn to and expect HTC to protect you from everything from chicken little to the big bad wolf.
They arent the US government
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ohh stop the whining about spies already!
They can't.
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Geezus its a game. Let people change countries if they want. So they talk to people on other countries big deal. I change sides frequently and still talk to my squad through squad channel.
Loyalty to a chesspiece.......:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Lusche
^--- Do I have to say more???? :rofl
Hehehe, I try to play nice but I know, if I ever found Storch, Shawk, SkyRock etc, I know it would be very hard not to pull the triger and type something like:
Dedalos 200: <---------- owns SkyRock
:D
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hehehe, I try to play nice but I know, if I ever found Storch, Shawk, SkyRock etc, I know it would be very hard not to pull the triger and type something like:
Dedalos 200: <---------- owns SkyRock
:D
:rofl the feeling is mutual darling.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Geezus its a game. Loyalty to a chesspiece.......:rolleyes:
Protect the chesspiece Hooch!!!!
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hehehe, I try to play nice but I know, if I ever found Storch, Shawk, SkyRock etc, I know it would be very hard not to pull the triger and type something like:
Dedalos 200: <---------- owns SkyRock
:D
Et tu Brutus?:(
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Et tu Brutus?:(
:D
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i was there at that base carhint was talking about there was not only 1 but two spies there one set on the runway telling how many planes and the types where taking off and the other was in town and he would pull in front of the guy defending the town and block his line of site he waited till an enemy tank pulled up then moved so he had a clear shot at the guy so if this happened to any of you you would be pissed too. and the guys who switch sides to see where their carrier is after the retake their port are cheats too one way to solve it is give you two weeks to decide what side you want on and make it so you can't change after that.
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I cant believe I still have this pic. But its Perfect for this thread!
Stang is a spy!
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/Stang.jpg)
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i country jump now and wish i have since i started,
it is way better, i can always find a good fight nowadays
i am most often than not on the team with the lowest numbers so ENY is now never an issue.
anyways my point is if you see me country jump, im not spying on anyone, im headed towards the large red dar.
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Originally posted by Tiger
The old original Air Warrior had FF on if I recall... it was a LONG time ago and I do have trouble rememebring stuff that happened this morning.
Wasn't there the old PNG status after 2 or 3 FF incidents?
You're correct, it was after your third friendly kill you got PNG'd from your country and sent to another. I think it was a 48 hour period you were png'd from your country. Actually I think this would be a good alternative to killshooter. Not for the spying issue which is retarded to practice or cry about anyway. However it would cut down on some of the dweebry.
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Originally posted by Shifty
You're correct, it was after your third friendly kill you got PNG'd from your country and sent to another. I think it was a 48 hour period you were png'd from your country. Actually I think this would be a good alternative to killshooter. Not for the spying issue which is retarded to practice or cry about anyway. However it would cut down on some of the dweebry.
So, let me get this straigh/ Lets say I am a Nit spy and I switch to the rooks. After I destroy their mission by killing 3 friendly goons, I would automaticly get PNGed fromt he rooks and send back to the Nits to receive my medal of honor for my services? :D
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, let me get this straigh/ Lets say I am a Nit spy and I switch to the rooks. After I destroy their mission by killing 3 friendly goons, I would automaticly get PNGed fromt he rooks and send back to the Nits to receive my medal of honor for my services? :D
That or be named Knit Grand Pooba of the Relm.:aok
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
There were spies in WWII! :noid
Yes there were spies in WWII, just as there are spies today. However, in war and in peace spying carries a very real risk. In AH, spying carries no risk, no danger, no cost, only a reward for the side that is doing the spying. In this light, spying in AH cannot be compared to spying in real life.
I agree that something should be done to cut down on spying. Turning off kill-shooter would be counterproductive. I can't tell you how many noobs I have seen trying to shoot down their own team mates. If kill-shooter were turned off, this behavior would run amuck.
My solution would be to increase the time you have to say in your new country before returning to your old country. Currently it is one hour. You spy for one hour and go home. Possibly this time shoud be 24 or 48 hours. This would not eliminate all spying, but I believe it would discourage it and reduce it. If you could not fly with your buddies for a day or two, you might be less inclined to spy, but those who wanted to try out a different country would still have the opportunity.
My two cents worth.
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Originally posted by dedalos
So, let me get this straigh/ Lets say I am a Nit spy and I switch to the rooks. After I destroy their mission by killing 3 friendly goons, I would automaticly get PNGed fromt he rooks and send back to the Nits to receive my medal of honor for my services? :D
Nah, what it did was render you ammo-less for....24 hours? I think. Was fairly easy to do too---drop bombs, vulcher guy gets kilt in blast, ONE more'oops' and ya can't play, save running goons, for the 24 hours
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Yall make this more than it should be. Most that know me know I fly rooks. So, a week ago I jumped sides just to piss off the knights. I told them I was there. and every time the knights would land I typed "to bad you didn’t crash". I didn’t make it personal by saying "I wished they died", that’s not cool in my book. Well this went on for a while. The last thing I did was join a knight Mish and typed on 200 what the details were. Oh did that piss em off. Like what I did or not, not important what the Knights finally did was mute me. Enough mute you lose that for awhile. For the first time in awhile the Knights showed they had smarts, they as a country shut me down. Now for you girls out there those think im all bad. Get a life.
As a parting gesture, I have an idea. What if HTC could turn everyone that changes country say blue for a week, and while you’re blue KS is off. That way you earn your way into said country and spies can be seen better.
Remember Girls, not all spies tell you they are here before they start
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Originally posted by C0met
I have an idea. What if HTC could turn everyone that changes country say blue for a week, and while you’re blue KS is off. That way you earn your way into said country and spies can be seen better.
Remember Girls, not all spies tell you they are here before they start
I could live with that.
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i hate killshooter and think it is lame but it wouldnt solve this problem.... i blame the arena split and encouraging side switching as the culprit... There is something good about cartoon chess piece loyalty!
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/dichotomy/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
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This is a letter to Skuzzy I wrote a while back, seems fitting for topic:
> Good Morning Roy,
Last night, my squadies and I (Bish) witnessed a player (Bish) dropping
supplies to enemy (Rooks)during a battle.None of the Rook fighters would
go near the C47 piloted by the player. Slightly before this battle, I
noticed this player on the Rooks side ( he'd made a inappropriate comment of 200, therefore I reported him). So I am assuming that he switched sides to drop supplies to avoid being killed. My question is this, is
this by terms of the game legal? If so I will stop right there. We have
video of this instance. I realize that one is allowed to switch countries
every hour, but I still feel this is cheating. What can I do as a player
to prevent this. Or is this out of our hands. Perhaps a longer period to
switch countries would be more reasonable.<
This is the response:
>HiTech is thinking about it. Right now it is just gaming the game.<
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Originally posted by Shifty
You're correct, it was after your third friendly kill you got PNG'd from your country and sent to another. I think it was a 48 hour period you were png'd from your country. Actually I think this would be a good alternative to killshooter. Not for the spying issue which is retarded to practice or cry about anyway. However it would cut down on some of the dweebry.
Almost right....when you received PNG status you were denied AMMO in that country for a time period, I thought it was 24 hours but I could be wrong, so you could still fly goons if ya wanted to ride out the PNG.
OOPS 229 beat me to the punch should have read whole thread before posting
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Originally posted by Boxboy
Almost right....when you received PNG status you were denied AMMO in that country for a time period, I thought it was 24 hours but I could be wrong, so you could still fly goons if ya wanted to ride out the PNG.
OOPS 229 beat me to the punch should have read whole thread before posting
My memory goes back to 1992/93 in AW, so it's all a little fuzzy. I'm sure info is correct.:aok
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
This is a letter to Skuzzy I wrote a while back, seems fitting for topic:
> Good Morning Roy,
Last night, my squadies and I (Bish) witnessed a player (Bish) dropping
supplies to enemy (Rooks)during a battle.None of the Rook fighters would
go near the C47 piloted by the player. Slightly before this battle, I
noticed this player on the Rooks side ( he'd made a inappropriate comment of 200, therefore I reported him). So I am assuming that he switched sides to drop supplies to avoid being killed. My question is this, is
this by terms of the game legal? If so I will stop right there. We have
video of this instance. I realize that one is allowed to switch countries
every hour, but I still feel this is cheating. What can I do as a player
to prevent this. Or is this out of our hands. Perhaps a longer period to
switch countries would be more reasonable.<
This is the response:
>HiTech is thinking about it. Right now it is just gaming the game.<
Makes me wonder how long he has been "thinking" about all the people wanting diff maps............. too weaks?
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Quit your ever loving whining. Please!
Yeah I dont like spies either but what the hell does it matter. If a tank resupplies with those that were dropped or brought by a squadie flying different colors then it gives us a chance to practice killing a tank over and over and over again. This is a dead issue that is getting beat over and over again.
Jugman
Forever a Knight
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Originally posted by Carwash
Yes there were spies in WWII, just as there are spies today. However, in war and in peace spying carries a very real risk. In AH, spying carries no risk, no danger, no cost, only a reward for the side that is doing the spying. In this light, spying in AH cannot be compared to spying in real life.
I agree that something should be done to cut down on spying. Turning off kill-shooter would be counterproductive. I can't tell you how many noobs I have seen trying to shoot down their own team mates. If kill-shooter were turned off, this behavior would run amuck.
My solution would be to increase the time you have to say in your new country before returning to your old country. Currently it is one hour. You spy for one hour and go home. Possibly this time shoud be 24 or 48 hours. This would not eliminate all spying, but I believe it would discourage it and reduce it. If you could not fly with your buddies for a day or two, you might be less inclined to spy, but those who wanted to try out a different country would still have the opportunity.
My two cents worth.
I think you are making this consume you too much. Why not just "log on and have fun, in your own way?"
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I had a guy a few weeks back pm me to tell me about a bish mission, no problem, I just picked a ranking bish, informed him that so and so was pm'ing his mission plans out. Hopefully they humiliated him. I don't cheat, nor will I stand for it.
Oz
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
Perhaps a longer period to
switch countries would be more reasonable.
Back when the time that one could switch between countries was 6 hours. Hated that as when furballs were killed I would switch sides to be on the other side of the map so I could furball. Now with the time being an hour its a lot more convenient that I wouldn't have to stay on one side for 6 hours just waiting to switch back to find another furball or hang out with squad.
Not everyone is devoted to a chess piece and lengthening the time one could switch countries would be horrible for those that just switch countries to help #s or just look for furballs.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I think you are making this consume you too much. Why not just "log on and have fun, in your own way?"
Consume me? I think you forgot the last line in my post: "My two cents worth."
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There is a knight sqaud that has done this in the past and I too have contacted HTC about same...
I was also told that is for now is being considered gaming the game but they were interested in screenshots I took of incident and the butthead bragging about what he was doing on 200.
I unfortunately was unable to send the screenies to HTC in a timely manner so I let the ball drop in that reguard.
What I found most troubling about the incident was the CO of the squad was the one getting the supplies dropped to him by this weenie..
Is it gaming the game I guess... Is it way out of line I feel it goes beyond the normal "lame" play..
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Originally posted by Carwash
Consume me? I think you forgot the last line in my post: "My two cents worth."
Your posts are lengthy, so yes, it does irk you. But, until HTC does something we are all in this together.
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After re-reading the post and replies I had a number of thoughts. (If you think that this is just whining; feel free to stop right here and go and spend your time on more productive endeavors – I will not be offended).
With respect to the “why does it matter” arguments, I’ll point out one lesson I got from it was how INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE spy spotting can be. In my original post I did not want to go into a lot of details of actually what happened that night, (yes losing that specific base in that manner pissed me off – but I saw a bigger problem and in my post I was suggesting and asking for possible specific and generic solutions).
After the Nits captured the 8.5K bases they moved hard on the V base below. From the advantage of my C47 in god mode I was able to communicate range and direction of the in coming GVs. The Nit (above) who stated that they ended up taking the base anyway was right. He neglected to tell you, however, the cost.
In their first wave the Nits came in with 8 to 9 tigers, a couple of M4s, a panz, 2 M3s and if I remember correctly an A20 and some other heavy fighter. At that time the base was being defended by 4 GVs – a tiger – 2 M4s and a flack. The Nits ended up losing all of their first wave GVs. Ouch.
As any GVer knows, getting first Viz on a target is 95% of the engagement. As I found out, being able to call an incoming target (tiger 1.5K away on your 2 o’clock) was disturbingly effective. Their subsequent waves were mostly concentrated on air – bombers etc.
To the “get a life” crowd I’ll share the following. The following day, in the morning I grabbed a cup of coffee and logged on to see what was happening in that arena. And guess what, the Nits had re-captured most of the peninsula, the spy from the night before was on (as a Nit) and our CV (I had switched back to my home country) was doing tight donuts in the middle of nowhere. I just logged and went to MA. The heck with it. I guess what I am saying is yep I agree with you. If it gets to the point were I see this practice all over – and I don’t have a way of dealing with it - I’ll just log.
To those who say that what I did was “childish” because it was pay back – wait a minute – how many of you have been taken out by one ping from 3K and not said ‘I’m going to get that guy’? Pay back is part of game. I’ll agree that I went to an extreme – but I was mad. (BTW, being called a 12 year old is a compliment when you consider that my wife and kids often compare me to a 9 year old.)
One final observation on the thoughts expressed in these “whiner” themes. One of the posts was from someone who has been a spy in the past. Yep – I guess that he doesn’t see a problem here at all!
As far as the solutions I had the following thoughts.
I do not think that turning off Killshoot is the “worst idea ever”. It may not be perfect, but the “worst idea ever……”? I think that the problem with newbes would be real one. In fact, I had one come after me tonight. I really tried to warn him and help him out – to no avail…. But again, if there was a way of only turning it on for a single flight-by-flight basis I think that most of problems would be avoid. (Maybe turning it on should cost you peak points – what the heck – give us something to spend these points on!)
It would leave two problems – that of jealous team mates and the other would be perhaps one of rampant vigilantism.
Does anyone know if Killshoot is a global only setting? Can it even be turned off on a per flight basis?
Turning off cross country VOZ/Chat might work – but as someone said – third party tools could possibility step into the mix. I should also point out that you can talk cross country without the squad channel – 255 I think. I have used it in the past to talk to other players and I would miss it if it was not allowed.
Limiting or penalizing country jumping seems to be a common theme in addressing this problem. There are some really good reasons to change countries so I do not think prohibiting would work – but extending the change time really does seem in order.
BTW, I really like the idea of turning a recently changed country player to blue!
The other spy issue that I’m not sure how you would deal with is multiple accounts. Yea – I have no problem with people who want to play with multiple accounts on the same country – but I’m not sure that all multiple account players feel that way.
I know that my $14.95 a month fee does not entitle me to a seat on the Board of Directors of HTC, but if it did, I would ask HTC managers why not turn killshoot on on a flight-by-flight basis, turn recently changed country players to blue and extend country change times?
Do not let the Great be the enemy of the Good.
Spying is distasteful and it does impact the game experience in a negative way. Unfortunately, spying can be very effective for those who make that choice and given the competitive nature of the game it will not go away. I think that we as players need effective tools to deal with this sometimes common problem.
:cool:
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ok, i read a couple posts. same old same old. maybe solution....just disable supplies, they are very gamey to begin with. You have a broken tank, no prob, i'll fix for you in 1 second...... kill the quick vehicle supplies, part of your spy problem solved.
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Originally posted by Carwash
Yes there were spies in WWII, just as there are spies today. However, in war and in peace spying carries a very real risk. In AH, spying carries no risk, no danger, no cost, only a reward for the side that is doing the spying. In this light, spying in AH cannot be compared to spying in real life.
And flying cartoon planes cannot be compared to real wartime combat flying :) Nothing in AH carries any real risk. Heaven forbid they spied and "won the war". We get a redo with the same map. Fights start all over again.
It's a game gents. Relax, have some fun, die a little, reup in your brand new plane and enjoy :)
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
This is a letter to Skuzzy I wrote a while back, seems fitting for topic:
> Good Morning Roy,
Last night, my squadies and I (Bish) witnessed a player (Bish) dropping
supplies to enemy (Rooks)during a battle.None of the Rook fighters would
go near the C47 piloted by the player. Slightly before this battle, I
noticed this player on the Rooks side ( he'd made a inappropriate comment of 200, therefore I reported him). So I am assuming that he switched sides to drop supplies to avoid being killed. My question is this, is
this by terms of the game legal? If so I will stop right there. We have
video of this instance. I realize that one is allowed to switch countries
every hour, but I still feel this is cheating. What can I do as a player
to prevent this. Or is this out of our hands. Perhaps a longer period to
switch countries would be more reasonable.<
This is the response:
>HiTech is thinking about it. Right now it is just gaming the game.<
That is how the problem is correctly addressed.
Now who wants apple juice and animal crackers?
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i started play'n in 2001........i've always be Hooper just the numbers at the end have changed......A game that is so good it cause's Divorce...u know people are going to get all worked up. P.S.,,,,the divorce was not me.well yet...hehe
there was spies then ......there will always be spies
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So, what's to prevent a guy from having 3 separate accounts and 3 separate computers / IP addresses? I'm pretty sure that is the case with some folks, especially with one guy over in ew and his very low score.
Other ways to cheat, I think guys manipulate the source code. Used to be guys manipulated disc info on the old floppies to game the game on store bought games. There was actually a company out near Seattle that supplied the cheats.
I found this thread by doing a search for "cheating" . It took a minute just to go fetch all the entries.
I did a little experiment, a few times, by typing in country specific intel to my fellow comrades. Very shortly there were nme, same folks, every time, responding to my info. Even works with false info. On my country's message board I typed the wrong position of our cv and then just orbited the position from 12,000 feet. A few nme showed up. Now how can this be? Productive!
Cheating exists to AHII in a few various scenarios AND it is not policed to stop it.
This game is played at various levels, various interests, and sometimes it is a lot like chess.
I play all sides. Squad activities are too restrictive for me. I do what I wish within tos guidelines. I join a squad and they tell me I can't play bish? Mostly why I switch sides is I like the 25 bonus perk points. That 12 hour rule is bs. It is not necessary to make a change at the last minute. I come on board for the session, study the arenas, make my side / territory decision and play along to support the win. A lot of times I make a switch just because it is too quiet and I want a better fight opportunity.
WWII and CIA they don't always shoot the culpret; ever hear of double and triple agents?
Some guy got really po'd because I parked my plane in back country in a hangar waiting for the win, not chipping in with his team. He said he was going to switch sides just to get me---that is really funny. Well, bring lots of gas. I know guys that after a day's session leave their pc on all the next day with their plane / vehicle parked just in case their side wins, until they come back on to play again.
EW usually I'm Knits; MW Bish; LW any side. I've gotten friendly w/ some folks here and just like hanging with them. Any side I play with, everybody chips in to watch our back, doesn't seem to be hard feelings.
Some guys I actually avoid---suspected cheaters I won't play against. You know who you are. I know who you are, too, but I'm not a rat.
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re:
carhint
Junior Member
Registered: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 5
Spies - closing a game hole.
Tonight, in mid war, we had a NIT change sides and spot and drop supplies for the NITS. (That is in addition to turning our CV around etc etc). We lost a 8.5K airbase that we had captured that morning that we were using to hit the Nits hard with. Now I do not like losing important bases, but I hate it when a spy is involved.
As pay back I went Nit for a while and spotted and dropped supplies. Out of a sense of fair play I told my new “team mates” what I was doing. They were not happy. I understand. They claimed that they had “no idea” etc etc. Hard to believe. (We lost two guys defending the downed town because the guy was spotting.) The Nits told me that I was nuts and even lying – I maybe nuts (I’m taking this game too seriously) but the facts from my point of view were not misrepresented.
I do not like spies; they take away from the strategy and tactical aspect of the game.
And YES I know – there is nothing in the rule book about not being a spy – just a code of conduct that some of us wish to follow. (BTW, I do not think that what I did was spying – I was pretty open about it – in part because I wanted to let them know that I was there so that they could either keep their communications to themselves – and in part to work them up – yep – many of them were not happy - although I did receive one or two expressions of love form one Nit with a sense of humor - and yes I still love you too!)
I think that there has got to be a way to kill your own country member if you need/want to. Real world spies were killed all the time. I do not know – is there a technical limitation within the game that stops this from happening? I’m assuming that there is a difference between collisions and gun fire. (I think that if friendly collisions were allowed then when two guys tried to up at the same time from the same runway you would have problems. Image losing a 262 before you even take off!). But there has to be a way of shooting a “friendly”. Maybe it could be an option so that newbes don’t go around killing own team members by mistake. Maybe it could be a non-permanent option i.e. you would have to select the option every time you upped.
This is just an idea to close a game weakness against those who game the game.
To the Nits not involved in the affair – my apologies.
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:O
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Much Ado About Nothing
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All in-game spies, and even those players we just suspect of spying, should be summarily executed on the spot. In real life.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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IN.
I'm really confused about most of that post. (to the one who decided to dig this up. I could go back and quote it, just don't feel like it.) On one hand it seems to support spying, on the other it doesn't. Accusing unknown people for doing bad things, no proof, no film. Needing to switch sides to get 25 extra perks speaks volumes. Why a few people would show up to investigate a dot, hmmm, hard to figure that one out. Taking a shot at AH saying it doesn't police it's environment for wrong doing might just earn you a png. Aside from the fact that it is wrong. I give the whole thing 3/10. A good and classic whine, encompassing a few popular items, but in the end turns out to be barely intelligible.
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i've been in the area of this crap before. very fustrating not being able to shoot down some ahole dropping supplies to his buddies on the other country.
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shoot the supplies.
ack-ack
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no, get mad, throw a fit, post about it here, demand HTC change the code, and threaten to quit if they don't!!!1
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Six weeks later, and this thread is still stupid.
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Come back Hub, Bojo and I miss you.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
shoot the supplies.
ack-ack
thats when m3's start rolling out there. :furious :cry :rolleyes:
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See Rule #10
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See Rule #10
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See Rule #10
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See Rule #10
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See Rule #10