Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: rogerdee on July 19, 2007, 05:48:20 AM
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has any of you guys done the 109e skin or been working on it?
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It has not been done.
It's an E-1. It had 4x 7mm guns (no MG/FF) and less power than the E-4.
That and several other E-1s have been left un-done in my "inspiration directory" for skins. IMO it's enough of a difference that it doesn't fit. It would be like a P47D25 skin on a P47D40. Close, but not quite.
Your call if you want to try it. It's really from the battle of France era, and before the BOB.
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I think that would be one of the most beautiful Bf-109E skins, so PLEASE do it! lol
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It's a 1939 camo scheme, though. even by the BOF they were on to more modern schemes.
If we could do E-1s I've got 1 in the pipe (been sitting there for a year) that I may begin on. Let me know if/when you submit so we can see if it's accepted!
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I like the colors. I ALWAYS love a yellow-nosed Bf-109, but I like the fuselage cammo too. I really like the default Bf-109 E-4 skin, but I cannot fly it because... well... my religion doesnt allow me to fly default skins.
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I'd like to see a photo of that one to support that profile. It looks like a 40 yellow nose on a 39 paint job.
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I've seen at least a few similar profiles, Guppy. IPMS Stockholm says the yellow nose started in Poland.
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/02/stuff_eng_profile_bf109.htm
EDIT: The JG53 profile right below it is the one I have several examples of, that I want to skin, but I don't know if they'll take E-1s.
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I'm not saying it's not true. I've just never seen a photo of a Poland era 109 with yellow nose. I've always understood that it started with the yellow rudder tips in the B of B and move on from here to the yellow noses
as an ID aid.
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Yep, that's always what I thought, as well. I've never seen a real photo of an early green camo with a yellow nose, either.
But then there's a lot of photos I haven't seen :D
Ah, well. I trust IPMS enough to think they're not making it up, but I cannot vouch for their sources.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Yep, that's always what I thought, as well. I've never seen a real photo of an early green camo with a yellow nose, either.
But then there's a lot of photos I haven't seen :D
Ah, well. I trust IPMS enough to think they're not making it up, but I cannot vouch for their sources.
And I don't trust em without a background photo. Otherwise it's just interpretation :) Model builders are as full of it as the rest of us:D
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Actually, that aircraft looks very familiar, if only because of that nose art... I KNOW ive seen it somewhere... Ill try to track it down.
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That noseart is 4./JG77 in norway, october 1940
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There's plenty that model builders get wrong (apparently the red nosed 109F is a false profile, most likely yellow instead of red) but generally speaking I find IPMS stockholm to be reliable in the fact that they research their stuff as best they can. They have some wonderful Gripen references :)
I've no doubt the profile existed. The green camo was the standard, and if they painted yellow noses, it would be on top of that standard. I've also seen the skeleton on the sides before.
Attached is a similar but different profile from a decal sheet (from one of the better more accurate companies -- not perfect but still more evidence)
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And I can point to photos of most of those birds on that decal sheet, but not the full camo and yellow nose!
Someone has to have a photo of it somewhere. I can't find it in any of my 109s stuff and I have a halfway decent 109 book collection.
Krusty, the JG 52 bird on the decal sheet also has a yellow rudder suggesting late B of B time frame as well.
The original bird doesn't have the yellow rudder that would make sense with the yellow nose.
The JG 52 bird might even be early Russian campaign.
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No way, can't be!
That camo was rare and on the way "out" by the time of BOB (IMO), there's no way you'd find it on Eastern Front planes!
Then again, it's hard to even find pics of it on the Western front, eh?
Sorry I can't add to the mystery, but just from what I've seen previously, I don't think there's any way it was Eastern Front.
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Originally posted by Krusty
No way, can't be!
That camo was rare and on the way "out" by the time of BOB (IMO), there's no way you'd find it on Eastern Front planes!
Then again, it's hard to even find pics of it on the Western front, eh?
Sorry I can't add to the mystery, but just from what I've seen previously, I don't think there's any way it was Eastern Front.
Krusty, think about the JG54 camo schemes on both their 109s and 190s on the Eastern Front. Yeah I know they are Fs but the 109Es were still going in the fighter bomber role at that point.
All late 41-early 42
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/green109.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Green1094.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/green1095.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Green1092.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Green1093.jpg)
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Perhaps, but those paint schemes really didn't start showing up until much later Fs and Gs were on the scene. At the time of Barbarossa, there were only 109Es left in service as jabo units, cobbled together from E-4/bs and E-7s and whatever was flying. They were almost as a rule using the high-demarcation line camo, and were phased out by the end of 1941. Some 109s are seen in blotch pattern camouflagues later, but there are few units that used them, and it wasn't green/green. I think some cases were training unit planes that were pressed into front line service.
Again, I'm no expert, but I think it's unrelated. It's separated by 2 years of dissimilar camo.
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The point remains the same however. A profile is the artists impression. There has to be some photo that sent them down that path.
109Es from Russia early 42 and a JG77 bird late 41. Not too hard to get lost in interpreting the camo :) How much green and how far down does it go? Is the lighter area just above the wing where the camo blends or is it just a result of the engine exhaust trail weathering the green camo? your guess is as good as mine. I'd suggest the exhaust has done it, but the profile guy has gone with the camo lightening up. who knows for sure?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/greenE.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/green109e.jpg)
JG77 Norway 41
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/jg77E41.jpg)
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That is an interesting way of looking at it (interpretation gone wrong), but there is a set style for the early splinter camo, and the skeleton riding on the side of the cockpit (see on early green/green camo and on BOB-era "clean sides" camo) dates the profile as an early one.
I mean, you'd have to be one dumb SOB of an artist to see a late Eastern Front field-applied camo and come up with an early factory-applied profile :D :D :D
I agree the artist could have totally bungled things, and that without some further evidence it's not likely that it's historically accurate.
:aok
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Ahh, we agree :) Without further back up support, it's hard to buy into the original profile :)
Where i think it could be easy to make the mistake is that there were still early style canopy E-3s flying at the beginning of the Russian campaign. I was surprised to come across the photos in the JG54 photo history. but they had pointed spinners with no opening to go with them so they had to be later time frame.
Originally posted by Krusty
That is an interesting way of looking at it (interpretation gone wrong), but there is a set style for the early splinter camo, and the skeleton riding on the side of the cockpit (see on early green/green camo and on BOB-era "clean sides" camo) dates the profile as an early one.
I mean, you'd have to be one dumb SOB of an artist to see a late Eastern Front field-applied camo and come up with an early factory-applied profile :D :D :D
I agree the artist could have totally bungled things, and that without some further evidence it's not likely that it's historically accurate.
:aok
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I saw similar photos when researching my 109F skins from the same time frame. Many 109E-3s were retro-fitted to E-4 status, and some later E3/4 models were given pointed spinners.
I guess if a replacement is needed, and the craft in question is mostly ground attack, they don't care if the parts are up to standard, as long as they're compatible. Those ground crews worked very hard to keep those planes working, and I've heard similar stories of Boyington's boys in the PTO as well.