Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Enduro on July 20, 2007, 04:49:24 AM
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I'm shopping around for my next home desktop to get me through the next several years of AH and Microsuck Flight Sim. And, I noticed this barebones (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3032655&sku=V133-8801) box with a dual core Intel and 4GB of RAM.
I've never heard of Visionman, nor do I care about the name really. Any thoughts on the system specs, though?
Not sure yet which video card I'd buy for it.
Thanks folks! :)
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You can build it cheaper?:rofl
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If you're lazy or need to build a lot of computers in a short amount of time these are good options. However, they usually ship these kits with cheap motherboards that are old and outdated and the ram is cheap stuff.
Do yourself a favor, pick out your own parts, post what you selected here and a number of people can give u advice.
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Okay...thanks, guys. Will do. :)
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The board is actually a good 1...except its a 680i board.
P5N32 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131073) $209
CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115003) $223
The memory has no heat spreader nor is any real detail given so as mentioned its 99% junk...we'll put in quality "value" memory
4G (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227195) $230
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208021) $45 after rebate
PS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182044) $35 (after rebate). No detail on PS...the 580W is an odd number. Personally I'd put in a topend PS but for comparision I put in a very good "budget" PS.
memory reader (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx? Item=N82E16820609198) $8
So your looking at about $700 in parts +/- based on the memory & PS
The build cost is roughly $250 to $400 based on those variables. You could build out a very nice system (with 2xHD and VC) for that total budget.
If you took a "budget" P-35 board MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131189) $120 You'd have plenty of room for VC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130071) and a couple of smaller HD's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822210003) set up as a system and data drive. These are actually very good HD's btw...obviously a bigger drive(s) or other brand is optional. I'm trying to get as much from the $1049 as I can...
MB = $120
VC = $350 (after rebate)
HD = $75
PS = $35 (500W roswell, after rebate)
MR = $8
Ca = $45 (after rebate)
Mem = $230
CPU = $223
total =$1061
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how much do you charge to build it, humble? :)
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Originally posted by Enduro
how much do you charge to build it, humble? :)
You should be able to find a shop that will build to spec for $100 or so...
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Originally posted by humble
The board is actually a good 1...except its a 680i board.
The 680i's aren't a bad board. There are cheaper boards that bench just as well.
I stand corrected on the barebones kit. It does seem to be not bad. ESPECIALLY for a Tigerdirect kit.
As humble pointed out though, and it stands true with my first post, replace the power supply. Kits always used cheap no name power supplies. Always buy name brand one. These little boxes are supplying electricity to $1000 in parts. A 5 cent capacitor can blow and fly a motherboard etc. The kit just say "580W power supply." Which isn't an odd wattge, some other brands use that rating.
Anyways, the rule on power supplies.
1) Don't use no name brands
2) Don't use power supplies that come in barebones kits unless you know the brand name and ITS LISTED
3) Don't use power supplies that can with new computer cases you buy.
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Okay, thank you very much guys.
Once I find a nearby shop to fit the CPU to the moboard--that's the only thing I don't quite trust myself with, yet--I'll be set.
I'll stay away from the barebones kits.
Will purchase my own parts.
I haven't been reading up on hardware; so, your input will come in VERY handy.
Thanks again.
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Originally posted by Enduro
Okay, thank you very much guys.
Once I find a nearby shop to fit the CPU to the moboard--that's the only thing I don't quite trust myself with, yet--I'll be set.
I'll stay away from the barebones kits.
Will purchase my own parts.
I haven't been reading up on hardware; so, your input will come in VERY handy.
Thanks again.
You don't need a shop.. I can guide you through step by step with a mic if you want.. Saves you money.
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Thanks for the offer, Avaro. It's probably best to spend the extra few bucks to make sure the fragile pieces (the CPU) are installed properly, though. :)
Could definitely use suggestions on quality parts, though.
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Originally posted by Enduro
Thanks for the offer, Avaro. It's probably best to spend the extra few bucks to make sure the fragile pieces (the CPU) are installed properly, though. :)
Could definitely use suggestions on quality parts, though.
No offence but to screw up installation you have to be an idiot.. No offence to you. Its quite easy just line up the triangles..:D
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Originally posted by Avaro
No offence but to screw up installation you have to be an idiot.. No offence to you. Its quite easy just line up the triangles..:D
Read the tomshardware forums. You'd be amazed at how many threads start with "URGENT HELP NEW BUILD WONT BOOT"
And so on. Baby steps. Better be safe than sorry.
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Its up to him. I'd list the parts btw.. I knew someone that got ripped of geting their stuff built by a store. I'd go with a well known store. I agree better safe than sorry. :aok
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Enduro,
I would do as Avaro has suggested in putting it all together your self.
once you do this, you will never need to take your PC anywhere to have things looked at or fixed, for the most part.
you will know everything about your PC and how you set it up because you built it from scratch.......just take your time in putting the 1st one together, do not rush it and hurry yourself because you can't wait to load up AH and check your FPS rate, lol.....
it is very easy.....no different than building a house or shed, measure( check) twice............cut ( install/plug in) once.......
building.putting it together yourself, setting up the BIOS & installing the OS yourself, then you know your system..letting someone build it and install everrything, then you do not know how they did it or how they set it up......
if you decide to pay someone to do it ( a local PC repair shop for instance ), then ask them if you can watch them build it so you can learn how it is done, and see that your parts are not switched out ..........not that it happens on a constant basis, but I have known friends and family who took PC parts to be installed or PC's to be built, and a year down the road or so they find out they do not have what they bought in their PC's........they have used or lesser quality products vs what they dropped off at the PC shop, to be installed.....
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My least favorite part of a build is getting all the little front panel device connectors in the right place. I'll take a processor install any time over that.
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I hear ya loud and clear, TC. I have an older PC that still runs the game; so, I'm not rushing things too much. That really sucks about your friends who were ripped off. That's why I'm really not rushing--if I need a shop, I want to find one I can really trust.
I have an old bud that works in IT. Gonna see if he's available to supervise the build when the afternoon comes. :)
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if your unsure or have no build experience ... if your worried about it .. but want to learn.
go get a cheapy beater pc off craigslist or your local seconds store /pawn/ or off a friend. 486/pent 2/ or some thing like that ... if it works all the better .
now take your time and tear the whole thing apart . now put it back together and see if it works . viola you've got build experience now :aok
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^ I'd have to disagree; so much has changed since the 486 was current (that was more than ten years ago) and in the computer world, parts ain't parts like chicken.
There's no shame in saying, "Look, I don't think I have the technical aptitude/time/desire/patience for building my own PC," and then finding a reputable vendor and buying one that's complete and ready to run out of the box with support on the other end of the line. I've recommended them before, but GamePC (http://www.gamepc.com) is but one example of a vendor that all manner of game system options right out of the box.
You're not a pansy if you can't/don't want to build your own PC. I don't know how to rebuild my car's engine, but I can still drive it just fine.
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disagree all you want ... you will never make a good teacher or instructor .
Just ask your self ..whats the best way to learn about mechanical type work ??
the answer you need here is " Hands on "
argue with me all you want ... I know Enduro and I have enough confindence in him that he could easily learn to build pc's , he just needs a little practice (hence my "Hands on ") Hell i'll even send him a pc to practice on if he wants .
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Originally posted by 0thehero
^ I'd have to disagree; so much has changed since the 486 was current (that was more than ten years ago) and in the computer world, parts ain't parts like chicken.
There's no shame in saying, "Look, I don't think I have the technical aptitude/time/desire/patience for building my own PC," and then finding a reputable vendor and buying one that's complete and ready to run out of the box with support on the other end of the line. I've recommended them before, but GamePC (http://www.gamepc.com) is but one example of a vendor that all manner of game system options right out of the box.
You're not a pansy if you can't/don't want to build your own PC. I don't know how to rebuild my car's engine, but I can still drive it just fine.
Actually parts are parts. No difference at all from 15 yrs ago. Basically identical layout...you have a socket, memory slots and card slots on the motherboard. You have a PS, a cpu fan and hard drives etc to connect. Anyone who built a box in 1992 could easily do it today.
The single biggest problem is incorrectly installing the fan, #2 is the CPU itself. If you can put the cpu in and install the cooling fan correctly your 90% of the way home IMO....take your time and you'll be fine.
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Guys, you have to admit that there is more to building a new PC than just mechanically assembling the parts. Choosing components and making sure they are compatible is not entirely trivial. It is possible to run into arcane incompatibilities between motherboards, BIOS, RAM, CPU, GPU, sound cards, drives, etc that can be difficult to debug. You shouldn't call someone an idiot if they don't want to risk these headaches when building their own PC.
Yes I built my own PC and yes I had problems (RAM not working with it's own SPD timings).
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disagree all you want ... you will never make a good teacher or instructor
Whoa, dude. Not trying to fight, just illustrate that it's a bit more complex than pros or even amateur builders like to acknowledge. Lots of casual people can build machines, but not too many build them particularly well. I realize the battle cry is usually, "Fu[k Dell and HP and all the others; build your own!" And it's easy for us to do that--some of us can probably build systems literally blindfolded (I prefer to wear glasses). As for me not being a particularly talented instructor, we don't know each other so let's just look past that.
Actually parts are parts. No difference at all from 15 yrs ago. Basically identical layout...you have a socket, memory slots and card slots on the motherboard. You have a PS, a cpu fan and hard drives etc to connect. Anyone who built a box in 1992 could easily do it today.
But he didn't build a box in 1992 (which as any of us who did can recall, was not exactly the best time to be a system builder...). Even so, there were 12V+ 4-pin connectors 15 years ago? There were 6-pin PCI-E molex outputs 15 years ago? How about those newfangled ATX 2.2 motherboard connections, as opposed to what passed for current even three years ago? RAM voltages don't matter right? Can I use an ATX 2.01 PSU on a new motherboard--the connectors look pretty similar, right? Should he install 20-pin or 24-pin power (they both fit the same)? Or how to configure SATA versus PATA in a BIOS? And it doesn't matter how you insert memory sticks in a multi-slot, dual-channel system, which was not an issue 15 years ago? Why do I have to hit F6 upon installation of Windows?
The number of DIY mistakes tech folks run across encompass all these issues; I stopped counting how many times people called me because their hard drives were jumped incorrectly or their CPU power lead wasn't plugged in or new video cards failed right after boot...because they didn't know their card needed a 6-pin molex connector, or worse, that it needed two, and that their old PSU couldn't handle it.
Not only are parts not parts, but physical assembly is only half the battle. I'm not saying the guy can't do it. But you wouldn't hand someone a wrench and an exploded diagram of a ten-year old engine and say, "OK, dude, go to town on this new model. It's not that much different than the old one..."
Then again, BBSes like this one are useful for fixing such things on frequent occasion.
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Quite a conversation brewing here, huh?
Maybe I'll just try to fit an A+ course into my schedule.
Roo, thanks for the offer. You know, you reminded me that I have an old P2 tucked away in the closet. I'll use it as my Frankenstein. :D
Thanks guys!
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Originally posted by 0thehero
Stuff....
You're not understanding what Roscoroo is is trying to bring across to you. Here's an example. Let's say you want to learn to be a mechanic. Do you:
A) Go buy that new Ford off the lot and tinker away
B) Acquire a 1978 Pinto and bring it back to life
There's a lot of difference between a car that is 30 years old and one built today. But they still have most of the same parts. The internal combustion engine is still in there, still have brakes etc etc, just probably no fuel injection or any of real electronics.
The point is. A Pentium 2 he has sitting in his closet still has a CPU, Hard drive, RAM etc etc. They all do the same thing a new computer does, just a lot slower. When I was growing up, my friends and I wouldn't spend a dime and would get old computer from people we knew or stores that were getting rid of their old ones. I learned 5x more ripping and putting those old computers back apart than I ever did reading computer magazines back then.
When you're talking about problems DYIers you are going about it the wrong way. This person has very little experience with physical hardware of a computer. You don't set your first grader off to school with a Calculus book in hand. You have to begin somewhere. Once he has graduated from the basics, then you can start tackling the more complex aspects with new hardware and compatibility.
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Originally posted by Enduro
Roo, thanks for the offer. You know, you reminded me that I have an old P2 tucked away in the closet. I'll use it as my Frankenstein. :D
!
What I did with the first PC I took apart was diagram out and write down how everything was hooked up. I removed all the parts from the case and then reinstalled everything and booted it up etc. Sooner or later when I received more boneyard PCs and I started swapping parts and making mixed systems or tried making the fastest PC I could out of what I had.
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Cool, Fulmar.
I've swapped out video cards, sound cards and have installed a hard drive before. It's the really expensive stuff (motherboards and CPU's) that I haven't really touched before. I just don't want to flush $500 down the drain because I was too afraid to ask for help. :D You know what I mean.
I'll rip the P2 apart next weekend.
Good night!
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Originally posted by 0thehero
Whoa, dude. Not trying to fight, just illustrate that it's a bit more complex than pros or even amateur builders like to acknowledge. Lots of casual people can build machines, but not too many build them particularly well. I realize the battle cry is usually, "Fu[k Dell and HP and all the others; build your own!" And it's easy for us to do that--some of us can probably build systems literally blindfolded (I prefer to wear glasses). As for me not being a particularly talented instructor, we don't know each other so let's just look past that.
But he didn't build a box in 1992 (which as any of us who did can recall, was not exactly the best time to be a system builder...). Even so, there were 12V+ 4-pin connectors 15 years ago? There were 6-pin PCI-E molex outputs 15 years ago? How about those newfangled ATX 2.2 motherboard connections, as opposed to what passed for current even three years ago? RAM voltages don't matter right? Can I use an ATX 2.01 PSU on a new motherboard--the connectors look pretty similar, right? Should he install 20-pin or 24-pin power (they both fit the same)? Or how to configure SATA versus PATA in a BIOS? And it doesn't matter how you insert memory sticks in a multi-slot, dual-channel system, which was not an issue 15 years ago? Why do I have to hit F6 upon installation of Windows?
The number of DIY mistakes tech folks run across encompass all these issues; I stopped counting how many times people called me because their hard drives were jumped incorrectly or their CPU power lead wasn't plugged in or new video cards failed right after boot...because they didn't know their card needed a 6-pin molex connector, or worse, that it needed two, and that their old PSU couldn't handle it.
Not only are parts not parts, but physical assembly is only half the battle. I'm not saying the guy can't do it. But you wouldn't hand someone a wrench and an exploded diagram of a ten-year old engine and say, "OK, dude, go to town on this new model. It's not that much different than the old one..."
Then again, BBSes like this one are useful for fixing such things on frequent occasion.
Obviously the world turns, but everything you noted is a fundemental learning issue easily covered by simply reading and viewing provided documentation. Now building a true gaming box is far beyond the "build" itself. However cobbling the thing togeather is fairly simple. Now a "rebuild" can cause problems. If you try and put a AGP card in a PCI board or use old memory in a DDR board it simply wont happen. But a new build is easy as long as your parts match...which is easy enough. So you have a few connections to plug in...not really hard after all each is different. Sata pretty much eliminates slave/master/cable detect for normal builds. Your anology on the engine isnt really right since in effect it is the same as 15 yrs ago....functionly identical in fact. now as you pointed out the parts are different.....but configuration is the same.
I agree if your not comfortable then by all means find a local shop to build it out for you....nothing at all wrong with that. But remember the 16 yr old kid that actually buids it for you is making $8/hr and will knock it out in 30 min or so:).........
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But remember the 16 yr old kid that actually buids it for you is making $8/hr and will knock it out in 30 min or so
: shudder :
Perish the thought. But you're right; some places have a very duct tape-and-bubble gum approach to building rigs.
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Originally posted by 0thehero
: shudder :
Perish the thought. But you're right; some places have a very duct tape-and-bubble gum approach to building rigs.
lol.. Whatever you may think some 16yr old somewhere may know more than you..:lol