Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: TinmanX on July 20, 2007, 11:30:08 PM
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I'm not normally one to get so angry that I actually have to say something about it on the board especially as I know yuou guys dedicate your time to set this stuff up for us without personal gain, but tonight, being taken out by puffy ack above my own field really sets my teeth on edge.
Perhaps the map could have been checked for these strat inconsistancies BEFORE everyone arrived for Squad Ops?
It seems ridiculous to me that a group should be tasked with defending a field where the AA guns from a factory within spitting distance is taking out the defenders.
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TinmanX ---
The map was fine at 30 minutes before the event. Something happened during the final prep to cause the map to reset fields. I know it is frustrating to be killed by you "own" ack, but things happen. Sorry it got you upset. Hope to see you back up in 2 weeks.
forHIM.
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Like I said, it's not like me to vent but I adimt feeling better for doing it. Mostly I'm upset at having to leave leading my wing who were solid throughout our opening encounters. There were a lot of newer pilots in that group who I had to leave in the lurch to land my damaged plane.
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Thats why we vent. It always feels better :)
Crappy way to leave an event, but by the looks of things just before it started we were lucky to be able to play tonight. Cudos for the CMs for getting it close enuff for us to play.
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That was about as frustrating as they come TinmanX, and I'm sorry you got shot down by ack, I hate it when the stupid game gets you and not a pilot.
All was right with the world, until about 5 minutes before fields opened and I got a call from the Host CM to come to the CM channel.
It was bad lol stupid ammo south of 12 was at the wrong country.
Tried rotating countries, resetting everything, and it just wasn't going to change. We had only 2 options and it was Launch Time. Reboot the Entire Arena, or Sled goes to the side CO and explains the situation and perhaps fly north. I didn't think there were targets at A12, but my mission was focused far south.
Well, we went for the easiest route, and didn't do a full reboot and rebuild of the arena, which would have taken about 20 minutes, as well as having all the missions rebuilt, and people not getting frustrated and just going to the MA perhaps not noticing the message about a reboot and Come Back. Tough call any way we looked at it. Very Sorry it went bad for you, I don't like anyone not getting the full benefit of an event, and I'll personally give you a 2 for 1 coupon for the next event!
There is a benefit though. You see, Gaidin is a new CM, and tonight he got his first class. Well, you can't do better than an event like this to clearly show how Bad it can go and how Quick one has to react to avoid a potential disaster! Vent away, I don't blame you, but Thank you for venting with such restraint and respect, that is admirable.
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Tinman ..the map got all upset right befor the frame started ... luckily it was fixed without booting all 300 players .
we knew about the one strat that didnt change and it was announced to be careful .. sorry but that couldnt of been fixed without booting everyone.
next time something like that happens notify the host CM . I'm shure he would of let you reup a new plane .
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That enemy strat next to A12 was there for all 3 frames.
JG11's formation was scattered as we all had to weave thru it during frame 1.
Frame 2 caused a minor panic on command channel when it started blinking right away. :lol
And on frame 3 our 234's had to take off next to it.
I agree choosing a12 as a base to defend wasn't the best idea.
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I do believe this was an error with the map, and will have to be fixed.
sorry for the problem guys.
PS
I went into the SEA and did a full reset, and reload, no change. this is a map error.
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Originally posted by ROC
Well, we went for the easiest route, and didn't do a full reboot and rebuild of the arena, which would have taken about 20 minutes, as well as having all the missions rebuilt, and people not getting frustrated and just going to the MA perhaps not noticing the message about a reboot and Come Back. Tough call any way we looked at it.
I certainly understand not wanting to go through all of that but perhaps a different field could have been assigned? We were called to defend that base as a late change of orders, could the orders not have been reset back to the originals by both countries and/or a different defence be assigned?
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Originally posted by TinmanX
I certainly understand not wanting to go through all of that but perhaps a different field could have been assigned? We were called to defend that base as a late change of orders, could the orders not have been reset back to the originals by both countries and/or a different defence be assigned?
I know that seems like the easy fix. But you have to realize that you start changing orders at that point in the game and it is going to be big trouble. It is not as easy as just moving the guys at 12 to a different base, you have to find a base that is at a good location. Is there still going to be fuel for the mission? are the attackers of 12 going to have the fuel or ordinance to hit the new base? Is everyone going to see the changes with only 5 min till launch? What if one of the attacking squads does not copy the changes and still attacks 12? What about the changes in rendezvous points with the change in bases?
The choice we made was the best choice with the least amount of problems we could make with the time we had to make the changes.
In this case there was no perfect solution.
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Understood. I should have realized that there was more to take into consideration.
Thank you for being so patient with my whining and also for putting so much time into making us FSO geeks look forward to Friday nights so rabidly.
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Originally posted by TinmanX
Understood. I should have realized that there was more to take into consideration.
Thank you for being so patient with my whining and also for putting so much time into making us FSO geeks look forward to Friday nights so rabidly.
Your welcome, and thank you for being polite in your "gripe" ;)
Remember, "Gripes" are welcome, being rude is not.
I have contacted the terrain team about the problem.
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You know even though that strat was showing as green to us Allies it was shooting at us as well, it even took out one of my guys as we attacked A12, so atleast for the axis it was shooting at us allies.
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Originally posted by trax1
You know even though that strat was showing as green to us Allies it was shooting at us as well, it even took out one of my guys as we attacked A12, so atleast for the axis it was shooting at us allies.
It was the French Resistance, at that strat, all drunk just shooting at everything. Can't trust them french on a friday. :furious
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Sorry to hear about that Tinman. I know "just" how you feel. Same thing happened to me a long time ago, but I remember it well. As I was watching the clipboard map change I knew something was up and the CM's were struggling to get it right as the countries were changing. It was a good call on their part. Believe me when I tell you I have no problem telling them when they screw up.
As Filth said it feels better to vent. Considering what happened your post was very patient. Hats off to you Tinman.
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Maybe not patient enough. Instead of towering and logging perhaps I should have requested a new plane from command. In circumstances such as these, would I have been allowed a fresh plane? I'm thinking perhaps I would and my hot-headedness kept me grounded.... You get so used to the "one plane - one life" end of it I guess.
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Why didn't you just have 1 guy when you took off go kill the 3 puffy ack? Theres no Auto Ack to worry about, and I'm sure the CMs if explained the reasonings wouldn't of taken off points.
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I think that would have been an excellent idea Bear, in hindsight. We all lifted from A28 rather than our initial ordered T/O base of A12. That was changed 20 minutes before the frame by the Axis CiC Command. I was not in that meeting so I don't know why they changed our T/O field but kept our defensive objective as A12. By the time our 2 defensive CAP units got to A12, they were 15-25k with heavy enemy presence in the immediate area. Allowing one or two pilots to drop all of their altitude to blow up a few puffy ack positions was just not an option at that time nor did the UNFORGIVEN flight leaders have a chance to make that happen. Dropping that much altitude and, more importantly, energy would have been a death sentence for the pilots chosen to do so with the amount of enemy in the immediate area.
Unfortunately, in FSO, our squad doesn't send "just one guy" to do anything. That's just the way we do things.
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TinmanX & REP0MAN ~Unforgiven~,
With the problems @ 12 asside, your squad did very well in Frame III & they came out as one of the top squads for Axis.
<>
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TY Ratt!
I hope it doesn't effect our scores but I must admit that shreck is actually on anabolic steroids.
:D
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ITS MeAN TO BE GREEN ;)
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Originally posted by TinmanX
Maybe not patient enough. Instead of towering and logging perhaps I should have requested a new plane from command. In circumstances such as these, would I have been allowed a fresh plane? I'm thinking perhaps I would and my hot-headedness kept me grounded.... You get so used to the "one plane - one life" end of it I guess.
I don't think I would have allowed a few pilots a second life. That is a cardinal rule of FSO, and to break it for that reason would have stirred up a hornets nest for sure.
Why didn't you just have 1 guy when you took off go kill the 3 puffy ack? Theres no Auto Ack to worry about.......
Now this could have been doable. The ACK at the ammo fact. is not an item I can destroy in my settings, but I could have launched a single plane (probably a jet) and gone and taken it out early. But there is still a chance that it would have gotten someone before I got there. not a bad idea.
...........and I'm sure the CMs if explained the reasoning's wouldn't of taken off points
AFAIK, you don't "lose" points for hitting non targets, but you don't get points for them either.
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Originally posted by shreck
ITS MeAN TO BE GREEN ;)
I will hunt you down in the next FSO for killing her.
:noid
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I have to say it would suck getting killed by your own puffyack, but friendly fire is a fact of war as well. I've been killed by friendlies in the past. You gotta watch out when you're flying in and out of bombers you are defending who are defending themselves or when more than one person is on an enemy plane. There was a time when one of our squaddies was mad about something and almost decided to kill us all on take off, lol. He would have been frame ace for sure! And in case I missed it, was the puffy ack targeting you when there were enemy con in the vicinity or when the air was clear?
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Ahhhh, just re-read your post Tinman, and I see what the beef is about. That's just wrong! An unfortunate situation with an enemy strat next to a friendly field.
Is it possible to get killed accidently from friendly ack if you have the enemy attacking a field/CV/strat target while you are trying to defend it?
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Originally posted by Bannor
Ahhhh, just re-read your post Tinman, and I see what the beef is about. That's just wrong! An unfortunate situation with an enemy strat next to a friendly field.
Is it possible to get killed accidently from friendly ack if you have the enemy attacking a field/CV/strat target while you are trying to defend it?
I would think so because I know that I've been hit by my own base ack.
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Originally posted by ROC
Tried rotating countries, resetting everything, and it just wasn't going to change. We had only 2 options and it was Launch Time. Reboot the Entire Arena, or Sled goes to the side CO and explains the situation and perhaps fly north. I didn't think there were targets at A12, but my mission was focused far south.
How about the 3rd option, which would be to go to; Arena set-up, Objects, Destroy Country objects, select the country in question, scroll down to CO3AMF000NG and just destroy all the ack guns.But you guys already knew that one right?:aok :D
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Originally posted by ROC
Well, we went for the easiest route, and didn't do a full reboot and rebuild of the arena, which would have taken about 20 minutes,
Or take out each of the ack guns in under 5 mins.:aok :D
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Gasp your Brilliant Sweet2th.
You have 2 minutes to tell me Exactly what the objects are and what they are tied to.
Now, how long did it take you to find those, and did you have to keep an event on track? Be honest, I don't think you will answer truthfully here, but You know the answer, don't you.
Gee, aren't we Brilliant a full day after the situation :) Bet you nailed what the coaches should have done that last football game to, right? :p
So, are you trying to really help or just grandstand. I've come to expect a bit better from you, did I make a mistake?
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Originally posted by ROC
Gasp your Brilliant Sweet2th.
You have 2 minutes to tell me Exactly what the objects are and what they are tied to.
Now, how long did it take you to find those, and did you have to keep an event on track? Be honest, I don't think you will answer truthfully here, but You know the answer, don't you.
Gee, aren't we Brilliant a full day after the situation :) Bet you nailed what the coaches should have done that last football game to, right? :p
So, are you trying to really help or just grandstand. I've come to expect a bit better from you, did I make a mistake?
This is all about me now?
<---just pointing out the 3rd option for solving a problem.Sorry it was me that pointed it out & not any of the back patters.Maybe learn from this and use the 3rd option in the future?
Oh & by the by, all ack guns have NG in the title on the objects list, and since there is only one ammo factory it was right at the top of the list.So thanks for pointing that out, it would have taken under 2 minutes to find them and not the original 5 as i had typed before.:aok :D
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
This is all about me now?
<---just pointing out the 3rd option for solving a problem.Sorry it was me that pointed it out & not any of the back patters.Maybe learn from this and use the 3rd option in the future?
Oh & by the by, all ack guns have NG in the title on the objects list, and since there is only one ammo factory it was right at the top of the list.So thanks for pointing that out, it would have taken under 2 minutes to find them and not the original 5 as i had typed before.:aok :D
I think the reason ROC answered you in that way was the way you posted your suggestion. You came off as(no offense by this) kinda a dick in your post. You could have posted your suggestion in a little more respectful way.
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Originally posted by trax1
. You came off as(no offense by this) kinda a dick in your post.
Why Thank You !!:D :aok
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
How about the 3rd option, which would be to go to; Arena set-up, Objects, Destroy Country objects, select the country in question, scroll down to CO3AMF000NG and just destroy all the ack guns.But you guys already knew that one right?:aok :D
Well Sweet2th, (I assume that's what your boy friend calls you)
wrong, at the time I (we) didn't know that, but then again you don't know what you are talking about either. (but you are close)
The ACK guns at the ammo fact. at A12, are not CO3AMF000NG. As a mater of fact that particular code is not on the destroy objects list. If you want to destroy the ACK guns at that location on that map, you will need to destroy objects:
C03GNG000
C03GNG001
C03GNG002
C03GNG003
C03GNG004
C03AMF000 (i don't see any "NG" attachment) is one of the many ammo factory buildings, and destroying it will do nothing for the ACK. But, you already knew that...... right?
suggestion...... If you are going to come off like a S-A. make sure you have your facts straight. Or else you look like a D-A.
;)
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Ok fellas, thats enough, let it go.
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Originally posted by SLED
Well Sweet2th, (I assume that's what your boy friend calls you)
wrong, at the time I (we) didn't know that, but then again you don't know what you are talking about either. (but you are close)
The ACK guns at the ammo fact. at A12, are not CO3AMF000NG. As a mater of fact that particular code is not on the destroy objects list. If you want to destroy the ACK guns at that location on that map, you will need to destroy objects:
C03GNG000
C03GNG001
C03GNG002
C03GNG003
C03GNG004
C03AMF000 (i don't see any "NG" attachment) is one of the many ammo factory buildings, and destroying it will do nothing for the ACK. But, you already knew that...... right?
suggestion...... If you are going to come off like a S-A. make sure you have your facts straight. Or else you look like a D-A.
;)
Sorry i didn't get the lettering exactly right.But atleast it was another option.Pretty sad that " I " have to be the one pointing out yer mistakes huh?
Some folks just don't like being put out on front street with thier lack of ability to properly run an arena.
SLED is starting to show his true colors though, keep up the good werk buddy.Your really showing us all how a SEA CM is really suppose to act,ROC made an excellent choice on that 1 :aok
And uh it's not my problem your taking what i type the wrong way, but it does let me know that your bothered by someone else pointing out the obvious.Maybe next FSO you'll have all yout T's crossed and your I's dotted Buddy:aok
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Sweet2th, what you just did on the boards is a clear example of what we go through on last minute glitches.
You had ample time to correctly look up the numbers, and got them wrong, and the next day realized your mistake.
Again, we had a couple minutes and many other things going on at the time.
So, please, sometimes you make valid arguments and other times, like I said, you are showboating. Don't do this, please, you aren't accomplishing anything constructive.
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Sweet2th I really don't think you should be criticizing the CM's, they do what they do for us to have special events for free. They put all this time and effort into the game to make it more fun for the rest of us and they don't even get paid for it. Mistakes happen, it's a fact of life, no ones perfect. If you have such a problem with the way they handle things then just don't play. I think they do an excellent job and do make this game more enjoyable for the rest of us.
So I'd just like to say to the CM team for putting these events together for us each week.
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What Filth said. At this point no one is looking pretty.
Back to the topic in general...
Maybe not patient enough. Instead of towering and logging perhaps I should have requested a new plane from command. In circumstances such as these, would I have been allowed a fresh plane? I'm thinking perhaps I would and my hot-headedness kept me grounded.... You get so used to the "one plane - one life" end of it I guess.
It is always easy to look back and see your mistakes. The hard part is doing it on the fly. My squad once lost about 2/3 going off the deck of a CV in a Pacific Squad Ops. We had about 14 pilots and 3 or 4 made it up. Reason was the CV was going downwind and the winds were pretty strong. At that time I did not let my guys reup as I was running FSO at the time. Hind sight is 20/20, I think I should have.
Another time a squad loaded with rockets were sitting on the runway and one of them by accident let loose with his rockets. Killed just about everyone in his squad. They were (if I recall) allowed to reup. Mistakes happen and sometimes to the whole squad. Each one should be looked at by the hosting CM carefully and make the call. After that rocket incident the CM’s turned on killshooter for the first few minutes of FSO, but then turn it back off after about 10 minutes. Solves that problem. :)
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Originally posted by trax1
Sweet2th I really don't think you should be criticizing the CM's
Agreed. This was never meant to become a critique of the Campaign Managers, it was just me venting out loud.
Please gents. this matter is resolved. Let us let it go.
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Originally posted by ROC
Sweet2th, what you just did on the boards is a clear example of what we go through on last minute glitches.
You had ample time to correctly look up the numbers, and got them wrong, and the next day
Actually your wrong on that ROC.When ever i was in a AH Scenario i hosted the same map in H2H and went over the orders to a T, so that any glitch or miscalculation could be corrected.
Hosting a H2H room is where you learn how to play with the settings and what they need to be at, and what those settings are.It's really easy to change settings actually.
I was pointing out A 3rd option that you may have taken on Friday night.I can see how you and the Chump would take offense to that(any way it was typed) and i understand.Maybe you guys can learn from this.Does a person really have to come onto these boards and type a certain way to others as SLED does?He even responded to Tinman with a little to much arogance i thought, which is what tempted me to type anything in the first place.Maybe SLED need's a wittle bit more practice before you give him the controls ROC.Maybe he needs to tone it down a notch and learn to take some constructive advice once in a while, funny i think i remember you telling me that on TS once before...........
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
Actually your wrong on that ROC.When ever i was in a AH Scenario i hosted the same map in H2H and went over the orders to a T, so that any glitch or miscalculation could be corrected.
Hosting a H2H room is where you learn how to play with the settings and what they need to be at, and what those settings are.It's really easy to change settings actually.
I was pointing out A 3rd option that you may have taken on Friday night.I can see how you and the Chump would take offense to that(any way it was typed) and i understand.Maybe you guys can learn from this.Does a person really have to come onto these boards and type a certain way to others as SLED does?He even responded to Tinman with a little to much arogance i thought, which is what tempted me to type anything in the first place.Maybe SLED need's a wittle bit more practice before you give him the controls ROC.Maybe he needs to tone it down a notch and learn to take some constructive advice once in a while, funny i think i remember you telling me that on TS once before...........
Anything good on TV this morning?
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This will be my last post on this subject, I don't owe sweet2th an explanation, but I do owe the FSO community one.
it started with this.....
Originally posted by trax1
You came off as(no offense by this) kinda a dick in your post.
Then the response......
Why Thank You !! :D :aok
With that response you were saying........ "Yes, I am trying to be a D**k, I like being a D**k, I want to be a D**k on this BB."
Then I realize that his information is wrong, and decided to call him on it. I did go over the top, and I should have tempered my response a little. I acted like a D**k, and I am not proud of it.
So my apologies to the FSO population.
I apologized publicly on this BB (look it up) to sweet2th, once for a wrong assumption, I won't be this time.
Even though it was wrong for me to slam him, he did deserve it.
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Originally posted by trax1
You know even though that strat was showing as green to us Allies it was shooting at us as well, it even took out one of my guys as we attacked A12, so atleast for the axis it was shooting at us allies.
That is strange. As I remember there is no more Puffy ACK at air bases like A12, correct?
so I don't know why the ammo fact. would be firing at allied planes.
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Does Puffy ack have the ability to kill shot? Could the ack have been aiming at the axis planes around you but a stray shot hit you and took out your bird? Just a thought.
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Friendly ack has been know to kill friendly planes too, in cases where many enemy planes are in the area being fought by many friendly plane. Puffy goes up, you get a small piece of shrapnel in your oil. It's happened to me several times in the MA.
As far A-12 and the ammo puffy, it was shooting at the AXIS planes defending A-12. Unfortunatly, some of the ALLIED planes may have taken damage due to their proximity to the AXIS planes in the area.
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Trax, were there axis air craft in the area when this happened?
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Sweet , This is something you should of taken up thru pm's to the CM team .
hunting down those particular guns at that strat would of taken time , and right at the start of the frame it could have been very risky .
the arena booted me twice while I was hunting them down on Saturday . it could of easily crashed and kicked everyone out .... This was something we worked on very hard to keep from happening .
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Even with the things that happened. It was taken care of swiftly, and as best as it could have been in the time allowed. We (almost) all got up with out any problems and the event went on and everyone had a good time.
Being the CIC for the Axis this frame it was a bit frustrating when this happened. Everyone upping out of that base was warned about the strat and were told to lauch away from the strat. Things do happen, its murphys law(damn that murphy and his laws). And a few planes got hit by it. But the frame went on as planned and I hope all had a good time.
I enjoy these friday nights doing this its something to look forward to. Thanks to everyone, who do their best to make these things happen. Even if a few bugs and glitched happen, thats just part of the fun.
Once again thanks and keep doing your best, so us cartoon pilots have a good friday night.
:aok
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Your Welcome, and thank you for attending. :)
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Little do they know it was all part of my Evil plot....
Bwahahahahaha :rofl
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Originally posted by SLED
That is strange. As I remember there is no more Puffy ACK at air bases like A12, correct?
so I don't know why the ammo fact. would be firing at allied planes.
I was just told by my guy that the ack from the strat got him, Betty was with us and I heard her say to make sure you stay away from the strat, that the ack was firing at us, so I did.
And I didn't see any Axis planes
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I ran a quick test in Offline mode.
I upped a 262 out of 76 and headed for a12 (ammo fac.). OTW I pass over some enemy strat at ~18K, and it fired at me. (puffy ACK).
When I got to A12, I flew over it , the city, and the Ammo fac. with no Puffy ACK firing at me. The ammo fac. was set as friendly. I changed ALT from 25K down to 12K. got nothing.
This does not mean that the Ammo fac. did not take out some friendly AC last FSO. It just means that it did not fire on me offline.
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sled..i was with the clowns escorting them to bomb a12 and i had the ammo factory shootin at me, was no big deal, i warned the rest to stay away from there. i had seen u say somethin bout it at the beginning and wrote it down incase we got close and i did hehe
<> i had fun no matter what. lasted longer than i normally do :)
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I believe it happened Betty, I am just trying to figure out, why? I also am curious why it is not doing it offline.
Will continue to investigate, if anyone figures it out, let us know.
Does anyone have a film of it? I would like to see it.
:)
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i know i didnt record it :(
sowwy :(
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Originally posted by betty
<> i had fun no matter what. lasted longer than i normally do :)
Really, no mountains between here and there?
:D
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh....reho thinks he has jokes! lol
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I wish I had been filming. I saw regular ack fire from town, but I stayed away from the strat after betty said it was firing at us. Will make sure I film from now on just in case something like this happens again.
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If you would, check around with other squad mates for me. See if a film can be had.
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Originally posted by Gaidin
I wish I had been filming. I saw regular ack fire from town, but I stayed away from the strat after betty said it was firing at us. Will make sure I film from now on just in case something like this happens again.
That wasn't ack fire. That was Betty's Bling. Shinny isn't it?
:D