Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: mrmidi on July 21, 2007, 12:47:01 PM

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 21, 2007, 12:47:01 PM

Since I started trying to make terrains and such for A/H2 I found that you
had to do a lot of searching in the TE forums to try and find WORKING
links to some of the utillities, tutorials, help files and such for making
terrains. Some of wich are very old or have moved and no longer there. So I decided to try and make a 1 stop place for these kinds of things.

Mr. Midi's Place (http://www.mrmidi.net/dloads/AH/index.php)

If you have a tool, help file or anything you would like to add to this page
to assist begining terrain makers let me know I'll be glad to add it to the collection.

Also If I have one of your creations there and you do not wish for it to be there let me know as well.

I would like to add a custome tile section in time, that players with tiles they
don't mind sharing with others can be placed for easy finding.

Middog
332nd Flying Mongrels

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Easyscor on July 21, 2007, 01:24:37 PM

Hey Middog,

Add i_view32.exe by Irfan, a great graphics file manipulation tool for among other things converting 32 bit bitmaps to 8 bit, sharpen, and brighten. Too many features to list and, it's free.

http://www.irfanview.com/

Some of those applications look useful but it's hard to tell what they work on or the type of file they output. Any chance for a description of the highlights?

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 21, 2007, 01:32:50 PM

Yeah I can add an extended ifo link perhaps that will help..

I'll get your recomended file added as well.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: McFarland on July 21, 2007, 02:43:21 PM

Wow, that is a great site. This deserves a sticky.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 21, 2007, 03:40:36 PM

Quote

Originally posted by McFarland
Wow, that is a great site. This deserves a sticky.

Thanks just trying to help contribute :)

Middog
332nd Flying Mongrels

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: USRanger on July 21, 2007, 05:12:02 PM

I have a ton of terrain tiles to donate when you are ready for them.  I have no problem at all sharing all I've got.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 21, 2007, 05:16:47 PM

Quote

Originally posted by USRanger
I have a ton of terrain tiles to donate when you are ready for them.  I have no problem at all sharing all I've got.

Thanks US as soon as I get the custom tile section set up I'll shoot you a PM.


Middog
332nd Flying Mongrels

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: OOZ662 on July 21, 2007, 06:58:02 PM

Perhaps you could get the homebrew program Skuzzy gave to rogerdee for making elevation base clipboard maps?

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: USRanger on July 21, 2007, 06:58:06 PM

Sounds good:aok

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Avaro on July 21, 2007, 07:03:23 PM

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
Perhaps you could get the homebrew program Skuzzy gave to rogerdee for making elevation base clipboard maps?

What makes you think skuzzy gave him a program? Most the online clipboards are made by Dux.. Nhawk makes his own though.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: OOZ662 on July 21, 2007, 07:05:46 PM

Quote

Originally posted by rogerdee
do u mean the clipboard map?

i use the terrian editor but when it says make map (as in map for clipboard)all i would get was a bitmap of the sea with no terrain.

Skuzzy kindly sent me one of his home ade programs to make the clipboard map which works perfect every time for me.

for some reason my laptop doesnt like the map making program that comes with the terrain editor.

Thanks to roy i can now play with the map how i want with out any problems.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Avaro on July 21, 2007, 07:30:59 PM

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662

Well it makes the map the program sees it does not make the edited map you see in my terrain post. Well i'm sure he just edited it like a few of these tuts say. :D

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: OOZ662 on July 21, 2007, 07:36:33 PM

That didn't make any sense.

However, if you read his post, the TE would no output a map for him, so he used a program Skuzzy sent him to output a height based clipboard style map without any editing. I'm sure other people would enjoy having said program.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Avaro on July 21, 2007, 07:47:18 PM

I mean it makes the exact same map the editor would. Apparently.. lol Skuzzy wouldn't give a program that made edited maps.. Or Dux wouldn't make the clipboards anymore.:aok Also would be unfair to people he did not give the program to so i doubt its what your saying it is.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: OOZ662 on July 21, 2007, 07:51:48 PM

If it weren't such a thing, why are four or five people begging for it? Go read the "my new map" thread.

Even if it doesn't do what has been said that it does, it'll clear up problems for anyone that has the same issue rogerdee does. I don't see why you're so adamantly against it...if you aren't against adding it, you're just using calories trying to prove me wrong for some reason.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Avaro on July 21, 2007, 10:09:04 PM

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
If it weren't such a thing, why are four or five people begging for it? Go read the "my new map" thread.

Even if it doesn't do what has been said that it does, it'll clear up problems for anyone that has the same issue rogerdee does. I don't see why you're so adamantly against it...if you aren't against adding it, you're just using calories trying to prove me wrong for some reason.

Its a great program if it does what he says.. Just thought they whould of let everyone have such a program. I guess i'll toss a pm at rogerdee and test it.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: MotleyCH on July 22, 2007, 10:48:03 AM

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
If it weren't such a thing, why are four or five people begging for it? Go read the "my new map" thread.

Even if it doesn't do what has been said that it does, it'll clear up problems for anyone that has the same issue rogerdee does. I don't see why you're so adamantly against it...if you aren't against adding it, you're just using calories trying to prove me wrong for some reason.

It does make great clipboard maps.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 22, 2007, 10:59:44 AM

Ok guy's and gals I've PM'd Skuzzy about this program.

Can we get back on the topic of this thread now.

Any one have something they wish to contribute?

If so let me know I'll be happy to include it on the site to help other's
in learning to use the TE,OE, and hopefully the CLE.


Middog
332nd FLying Mongrels

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: rogerdee on July 23, 2007, 07:12:34 AM

the map that i use on the clip board its not edited or touched up in any way,its just as it is off the program that Skuzzy sent me.

it does what it says on the tin

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Denholm on July 23, 2007, 09:25:05 AM

Sticky Please!

Add this too please:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188450

(OE tutorial, didn't see it up on your website. Yes, it's made by me.)

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 23, 2007, 11:13:57 AM

Knew I was forgeting something of yours LOL
It's there now...:aok

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Denholm on July 23, 2007, 02:43:22 PM

Cool, thanks!:cool:

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on July 26, 2007, 05:45:56 PM

-punt-

Title: tilecolors.zip?
Post by: Ghastly on July 26, 2007, 06:11:26 PM

So.... color me an idjut, but just what do the colors referenced in the bmp in tilecolors.zip signify?

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: McFarland on July 27, 2007, 02:30:11 PM

Did a search, found some things from waaaaay back. Like this: http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/3dem/downloads.html. I just did a search under the term "DEMS" in the section "Terrain Editor".  There are several other interesting things I found, I'll try to post them.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Easyscor on July 27, 2007, 04:02:55 PM

Thanks McFarland

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: McFarland on July 27, 2007, 04:42:14 PM

I also found this site http://www.terrainmap.com/rm24.html#ASTERL1A and this site http://edc.usgs.gov/products/elevation/gtopo30/gtopo30.html, I know you veterans of mapmaking know about them and where to find them, but the newer ones would probably also like to know about them.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on August 04, 2007, 11:24:32 AM

Any one got any thing else they want added to this page.

I also have a custom texture page there as well if anyone want's to share
some terrain textures.

Skuzzy can this thread be sticky'd?


Mid

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Ghastly on August 04, 2007, 04:27:33 PM

With respect to GTOPO30, I'll give you guys a VB utility to convert the GTOPO30 DEM files to an indexed greyscale BMP file as soon as I finish it.  

Neither GIMP nor Corel can directly import the MSB ordered 16bit signed integer files (at least that I can figure out) the USG software blows up when you try to run it on every machine I've tried, FW tools contains a tool that's supposed to but gives an error message whenever you try to save out to any kind of a file (apparently needs "Python" installed, and I don't have) and 3DEM will create greyscale bitmaps if you make your own grey scale colormap (which is laborious)- but is nearly impossible to create height maps that are to horizontal scale because you have to zoom in just the right amount and then save an image of the scaled down version in the window - and there are no tools to let you select an exact sized area to view.

According to NHawk, Photoshop can read them - but I don't have PS.

I'm tired of messing about with it, when I can just write a file conversion utility and be done.

GTOPO30 will be a great source of terrain though, because at a scale of 1 KM it's not too far off from the 1/2 mile scale of AH.

(You guys can tell what I've been doing, huh?)

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: NHawk on August 05, 2007, 07:43:07 AM

Photoshop can open GTOPO30 DEM files directly and I would think Corel has the same options somewhere....

1) Click FILE
2) Click OPEN AS
3) Select DEM File
4) Select Open As: RAW
5) .. Raw Options

Width: 4800
Height: 6000

Channels:
Count: 1
Depth: 16bit
Byte Order: Mac

Header Size: 0

6) Click OK

The file will open and land will be all black.

7) Click Image
8) Select Adjustments/Levels
9) Adjust levels to the point you're happy with grayscale output.
10) Adjust ouput levels to 1 ~ 255
11) Change image to RGB/8bit
12) Flood fill water with grayscale 0

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Ghastly on August 05, 2007, 08:01:05 AM

Nope, one area where Corel definately lags PS is in the ability to work with Raw files.  Instead of being incorporated into the application, they give you a seperate application to convert them - and instead of determining/parsing/prompting for the file format, they support Raw import by camera model only.

Since I couldn't find a camera model that writes out 16 bit signed integer in MSB first format (and why would one?) , I was out of luck.

Gimp has a built in scripting language that I could probably implement one in, but it would take more time than just writing it in one of the languages I know.

It's only about 2 hours work - but I've only had an hour to spend on it.  Besides, once I'm done I'll be able to use it for other file types by just changing the import routine.



Guy

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Dux on August 05, 2007, 12:53:48 PM

NHawk, I'm only really familiar with DTED files... but do DEM files also change size once they go above 50-deg Lat?

DTEDs become half the size horizontally.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Easyscor on August 05, 2007, 02:14:33 PM

DEM files continue to be at 30 seconds all the way to the pole, giving more data points per mile in the east west direction however DTED files have more reliable elevation data because they’ve been updated more recently. The best results depend on the area of the world.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Easyscor on August 05, 2007, 02:17:25 PM

Ghastly you might want to be aware that elevation data 0x1A may cause you some problems with file read errors. Your mileage may vary.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Ghastly on August 06, 2007, 12:37:36 AM

Hmmm... I'll bear that in mind Easycor!  Thanks - I don't know how long it would have taken to resolve a troublesome terrain down to that as a culprit...

And I've emailed it out to MidDog, if anyone else needs or wants it.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: NHawk on August 06, 2007, 05:32:18 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Easyscor
DEM files continue to be at 30 seconds all the way to the pole, giving more data points per mile in the east west direction however DTED files have more reliable elevation data because they’ve been updated more recently. The best results depend on the area of the world.

This is more or less correct. Here is the chart for distances covered at different latitudes.

Latitude Ground distance (meters)
(degrees)   E/W   N/S
--------- ------------
Equator 928 921
10 914 922
20 872 923
30 804 924
40 712 925
50 598 927
60 465 929
70 318 930
73 272 930
78 193 930
82 130 931  

Keep in mind that the GTOPO is not an actual satellite scan. It is a computer generated elevation model compiled from different data sources......

DTED 30 18 product specification
DCW 160 97 calculated vs. DTED
USGS DEM  30 18 product specification
AMS maps 250 152 estimated from 500-meter interval
IMW maps 50 30 estimated from 100-meter interval
Peru map 500 304 estimated from 1,000-meter interval
N.Z. DEM 15 9 estimated from 100-foot interval
ADD highly variable wide range of scales and intervals

Hence why better detail can be obtained depending on the area of the world you use.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Easyscor on August 06, 2007, 11:28:03 AM

:rofl

NHawk the eyes  on some of these guys glazed over and smoke started pouring from their ears after the first line, but yes.

:aok

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on August 12, 2007, 01:22:10 AM

Added the working Delta files to the website...


Mid

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: croduh on August 12, 2007, 02:24:40 PM

Great find indeed MrMidi:aok

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: USRanger on August 18, 2007, 04:12:49 PM

Midi, I'm getting ready to send you a whole bunch of object & terrain textures. I gotta go thru em & change em all into .jpg format to conserve file size first.

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on August 18, 2007, 04:21:30 PM

Sounds good US...:aok

Mid

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: mrmidi on August 23, 2007, 06:52:08 PM

I've added another terrain texture to the textures, section of the site.
A grassy rock.

(http://www.mrmidi.net/dloads/AH/tiles/grassyrock.jpg)

Mid

Title: Map making tools and info location
Post by: Denholm on August 24, 2007, 08:58:29 AM

Might use it for this in the near future:
(http://603sqdrn.collectivelyspaced.com/tunnel.jpg)