Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WMLute on July 21, 2007, 03:41:38 PM
-
Quick question.
If you in the DA doing a "formal" duel with a pilot using "standard" DA rules and you agree to a 3k merge, is it acceptable for a player to climb to 6k then dive down to 3k before icon range?
Opinions?
(EDIT: there is a backstory here which I will hold off on for now)
-
hmmm smacks of sharp play there, what would be the point of a duel as the additional E constitutes an unfair advantage.
-
3K is just that.
Diving down from 6K to gain all that E isn't in the spirit of the duel to me.
-
Next time indicate that he should never climb above the predetermined altitude until after both planes have merged.
Lute, next time, lose on purpose.
-
you said 3K that means 3K is the limit no higher you can go lower but not higher thats all
-
No, it's not acceptable.
I've only seen that happen once, and it was when I went afk and forgot to turn off auto-climb. When I came back, I told the guy I was dueling what happened, and scrubbed off all my extra E before merging.
-
Poor form IMHO, did he hot merge too...
-
no.
-
Originally posted by WMLute
Quick question.
If you in the DA doing a "formal" duel with a pilot using "standard" DA rules and you agree to a 3k merge, is it acceptable for a player to climb to 6k then dive down to 3k before icon range?
Opinions?
(EDIT: there is a backstory here which I will hold off on for now)
If both agree on the 3k merge, it means that both cannot go higher than 3k on the initial merge. Climbing to 6k and then diving to 3k before the merge to gain E is a chickenchit thing to do.
ack-ack
-
Just a thought ... lord knows I am not great in duels.
If there is not a predetermined merge speed ... what does it matter if he dove from 10k ... as long as the merge was at 3k? I have seen people scrub E prior to the merge to gain turning advantage. How is that different?
Again ... more for my own knowledge & conversation sake. When I do head over ... I like to know I am following the rules.
-
Co-alt, co-E before the merge has been the rule of thumb in any duel, since I have been part of the community. :aok
-
Originally posted by Spiked
Just a thought ... lord knows I am not great in duels.
If there is not a predetermined merge speed ... what does it matter if he dove from 10k ... as long as the merge was at 3k? I have seen people scrub E prior to the merge to gain turning advantage. How is that different?
Again ... more for my own knowledge & conversation sake. When I do head over ... I like to know I am following the rules.
Generally both players take off from opposite fields at about the same time, in the same plane, with the same load-out, and climb to pre-determined altitude where they level. When players get within Icon range, the two shall climb, dive, or stay level, but generally fly towards each other and cold merge(no HOing on merge). Most consider HOing on any merge a cheap shot, as neither has gained an advantage on the other. Those are the basic rules of an average duel in AH!
Mark
-
bla bla bla who cares dueling for fun is great but to settle a grudge is tarded....if it aint fun folks...why bother...
:noid
-
Lute was this Hawkwhatever? Ive got a nice film of him running from me in the DA and then into his field Ack. Fallowing the field ack killing me him bragging on 200 about killing me. luckily Kjetil was there to calm me down so I didn't get to upset about it and not waste my time with him.
-
Back when field acks didn't do any damage in the DA, some guy I was dueling tried the same thing Lute's guy did. Came in at 10k right before the merge and dove to 5k since that was the agreed upon duel rules. He blows the Vertical 8 on the merge and runs back to his base to hide in his acks. I follow but stay out of ack range because I didn't want to give the guy a cheap win by letting acks shoot me down. Then someone that was in the DA heard me ask the guy to leave his acks, the bystander sent me a PM saying acks don't hurt anyone. I creep within ack range, see that they don't fire and then proceed to flame the guy over his base.
The poor loser then sent me a PM saying he only dueled me to film evidence of my cheating and HT would be very interested in the 3rd party program I had used to prevent the acks from firing at me. Then I had to listen to him rant about how if I didn't cheat, he'd had owned me on the merge, yada yada yada. Don't recall the full name, other than it began with an H and ended with 55. The funny thing is, he had initially asked me to duel so I could teach him some vertical maneuvers and reversals.
ack-ack
-
As I really suck at dueling, I had thought of (but not done) this very thing in the DA. Guess I'll just forget it.
-
Originally posted by Husky01
Lute was this Hawkwhatever? Ive got a nice film of him running from me in the DA and then into his field Ack. Fallowing the field ack killing me him bragging on 200 about killing me. luckily Kjetil was there to calm me down so I didn't get to upset about it and not waste my time with him.
Yes same guy, will fill you in later. And I was there when lute was so he knows my opinion on the matter. I agree with Akak, it's a chickenchit thing to do.
-
That person that climbs to 6k doesnt have much DA time.
3k is 3k not 6k to 3k
Also i think a HO is a HO and people that say no ho's on first merge make me think they are going to ho on the second merge. If you dont understand what a ho is, and cant recognize that you don't have the advantage its just as bad as climbing to 6k and coming down to 3k.
A face full of lead when you both can kill each other proves nothing. One must gain the advantage and win.
-
what about a front quarter shot where the other guy cannot shoot back? is that poor form also?
-
Originally posted by storch
what about a front quarter shot where the other guy cannot shoot back? is that poor form also?
Ill post the screenie when I get back. Going out with the family.
-
Originally posted by FX1
That person that climbs to 6k doesnt have much DA time.
3k is 3k not 6k to 3k
Also i think a HO is a HO and people that say no ho's on first merge make me think they are going to ho on the second merge. If you dont understand what a ho is, and cant recognize that you don't have the advantage its just as bad as climbing to 6k and coming down to 3k.
A face full of lead when you both can kill each other proves nothing. One must gain the advantage and win.
Got to disagree with this one....
If i'm dueling Bat or creton or anyone for "fun" yes. But would you pass that shot is something like KOTH? It's like two gun fighters who both clear leather...but one gets around quicker. To me this is actually part of ACM...its a judgment call on whether you will or will not get your nose around 1st...if not you need to be out of plane. Basically what your saying is my ACM and judgment isn't really quite good enough so I need a rule to protect me.
There is no "HO" after a 1st merge in a duel...hasn't been one since 92 when I started. That doesn't mean I disagree with you in the sense that I never take a "tie"...but that doesn't mean doing so is bad form (unless so agreed prior)....
-
A guns cold first merge has always been pretty standard stipulation.
-
I agree with Ack Ack & Murdr, but this is nothing new.........back during Sour's AH1 Ladder alot of the top 25 tier pilots was doing the same thing..........and they still would lose, rofl.........
-
the guy who did it obviously is the guy in the MA who climbs to 30 k and doesn't know how to do anything but cherry pick. thats why u probably beat him anyways lute. am i right?
-
Originally posted by Murdr
A guns cold first merge has always been pretty standard stipulation.
Any real dueler knows not to shoot on any merge haha..:D Well i'll shoot if he pulls up too early but thats about it.:aok
-
Originally posted by storch
what about a front quarter shot where the other guy cannot shoot back? is that poor form also?
No!
You have the advantage and he cant hit you then its a clean shot. That's were experience and knowledge come into play.
-
Ok storch here is your HO shot you took out my engine with from the second my engine got hit. There is a Inside screenie from my view, one from your view and a exterior shot. If you want I will send you a film to prove no screenies where photo shopped. Notice we both had guns on each other.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/BearKatsview.jpg)
In my cockpit the second my oil was hit.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/StorchView.jpg)
From your cockpit.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Goldelks/Outsideview.jpg)
External Shot.
Would you like me to post the film as well?
So you still think it wasnt a HO shot storch?
-
yes I think it wasn't a HO shot I hit your cockpit and there was no way you could have hit me.
-
Originally posted by storch
yes I think it wasn't a HO shot I hit your cockpit and there was no way you could have hit me.
Are you blind? Like really did you not loot at the pics? my gunsight is on your wing sir. Do you want the film as well?
-
it just keep gettin better...lol
-
Originally posted by Husky01
Are you blind? Like really did you not loot at the pics? my gunsight is on your wing sir. Do you want the film as well?
I'm hardly one to come to the dumbarse's defense but remember, your film captures what is seen by your front end, even when you jump into his plane in the film. His front end might have showed a perfect front quarter angle shot and his film would reflect that.
To settle the argument, the dumbarse needs to post his film so we can see what his FE showed.
ack-ack
-
who is dumbarse ack-ack?
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I'm hardly one to come to the dumbarse's defense but remember, your film captures what is seen by your front end, even when you jump into his plane in the film. His front end might have showed a perfect front quarter angle shot and his film would reflect that.
To settle the argument, the dumbarse needs to post his film so we can see what his FE showed.
ack-ack
]
My guess is he will go into his film, review it, realize it was a HO shot. Then come in here posting tat he never recorded the fight. but hopefully he does post his film so we can see it.
-
I don't film anything, It's a game and of zero importance. I don't look at video from when my kids were young I'm not interested in looking at film about a cartoon fight. here's an idea why don't you post the film you have showing you having alt and speed and whining. it wasn't a duel it was a spontaneous fight and even if it had been a duel at the end of it all a twelve pack of beck's will still cost $12.69 at the publix and I'll still earn a little more money next year if I don't die so none of this is of any consequence.
-
Post it and we can tell in 5 sec.. Pics dont tell the hole story.
Both of you are VETS so if their was any question about the fight just dont count that one..
Were yall doing the best of 5 Loser picks the ride?
-
remember the day when we "checked 6" to begin a duel?
man those days where fun........Phish, Sunny1, chark, and a bunch of other DA regulars
-
na it was all spontaneous. he lost twice but again it's no big deal I lost twice to skyrock and that was spontaneous as well.
I'm going into the DA to learn to duel. I have a long way to go in that arena but I'm enjoying taking my lumps.
it makes a difference in the other arenas especially if you go in there and fight people who are better players.
the DA is different than the other arenas but the lessons learned can come in handy in a furball if you maintain even a modicum of SA.
-
Here is the Film.
http://www.speedyshare.com/705319327.html
Its the Second fight in the film. Not the first one where storch fights me right off the runway with a 50MPH advantage on the merge and sorta kinda BNZs me to death. It was not a set dual. I got in the DA typed anyone want to fight. Storch said come to 24 109F so I did.
-
Originally posted by stickpig
remember the day when we "checked 6" to begin a duel?
man those days where fun........Phish, Sunny1, chark, and a bunch of other DA regulars
I thought it was standard practice to check 6 before a duel. I forgot thats in H2H (:
Tell you the truth their are better fights in H2H than in the DA.. Just need to the right players in the room and that old DA feeling comes back really fast.
-
that was the old DA standard.......Not sure if its still in pratice.
All you had to do was "Check 6 " someone.....if they gave u a Check 6 back it was on.
Dont Da like i used too after the format change..... Miss those days alot though.
lots of good people in the old DA... great conversations, great fights
-
Sorry storch but he could have poped ya.
Yall go DA and make up (:
-
Do you remember all the *****ing and newbs vulching the field. HT just got tired of all the complaints and put a end to that. I do wish we had it back...
-
Originally posted by FX1
Sorry storch but he could have poped ya.
Yall go DA and make up (:
FX got another question when he engaged me right off the runway would you call that BnZ? Not that I much care that it was him just seen that fighting style before and was curious.
-
Was that the first fight?
-
Ya the first fight right after I upped he came in. I was wondering if you would call it BnZ I don't care that its storch just seen that fighting style before and was curious to what you would call it.
-
Originally posted by FX1
Do you remember all the *****ing and newbs vulching the field. HT just got tired of all the complaints and put a end to that. I do wish we had it back...
yea.... Then there was a mass vulch on the vulcher till he submitted.
Man that was great times
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Generally both players take off from opposite fields at about the same time, in the same plane, with the same load-out, and climb to pre-determined altitude where they level. When players get within Icon range, the two shall climb, dive, or stay level, but generally fly towards each other and cold merge(no HOing on merge). Most consider HOing on any merge a cheap shot, as neither has gained an advantage on the other. Those are the basic rules of an average duel in AH!
Mark
and all that BS, NOPE., Uh but skyrock devatiad 3 ft.
Plick :lol
End of the day Merge at ALT indicated, from there, well, your dueling
-
He was using his E and waiting for you to go nose down. Its not BnZ but a common DA tactic when you recognize the other guys lack of E.
Storch should have waited our scrubbed some speed but you could have won the fight. I wouldn't call it a "for the record" da merge. I would call it a friendly merge both of you could have one.
You made a mistake not hanging it out and going nose down. Its hard to make a vet over shoot but he also made mistakes.
What he called running was just that. Your ACM kicked in because he had the angle. Running doesn't always mean 1/2 sector on the deck running. You disengaged because he was going to win.
Yall need to make up and DA for about 10 fights. At that point their will be a obvious winner. I could tell both of you were rusty in the da.
From what i viewed their were no hands down winner.
-
ya I haven't been playing nearly as much only logged 5 hours probably in the past week or so. 30 total this month to my normal 90 so ya I'm a bit rusty.
-
(more backstory)
What this player would do was climb to @ 5-6k while out of icon range, then dive down to 3k before icon range, off merge, spiral climb, then use their E advantage to keep the fight going up. Then they would do a spiral climb, and keep doing said gentle climb untill you finally ran out of E and would break off, or nose down.
We are talking about 5-10 min. of constant near flat turn gentle climbing, using their initial E advantage to stay just above you. They did no other offensive maneuver.
If you do break off and show them your 6 to try to get a "fight" started they would make a pass, and when/if they missed, start the whole process again.
No other move was used.
-
Dueling is hard to find people who duel the same way. Very few people Ive dueled follow the standard rules. Many skip the intitial turn at the merge and go for altitude.
What I suggest is this. Get as much alt as you can, before the merge, then dive down to 3k for the merge. If both parties do this, then its a choice to burn the E trying to slow down to turn better, or to stay fast and use the vertical like so many do anyway. Basically remove many of the rules from it so its a raw fight, with the very beginning stages even, and after the 1st pass, all options are open.
That way everyone knows what to expect. No surprises like the guy was higher to begin with, the guy HO'd etc. Ive been told "Nice HO" at times when the guy had no guns up me as I slowed and let him pass before my guns. We all see stuff a little different on our end.
So again, if the only rules were being co-alt at the initial merge, and no firing at that intial merge, but all bets are off from that point on, it would simplify the whole affair.
-
Lute...
Yes, that is not kosher. The point of a "duel" is equal planes, equal situation. By diving to the merge, your opponent was trying to gain an advantage. Bad form.
As for Husky1/Storch...
Post merge...anything goes. If you don't specify before the fight that forward quarter shots are prohibited, you have nothing to complain about. SRI bud, you got out flown in both fights.
-
Originally posted by storch
yes I think it wasn't a HO shot I hit your cockpit and there was no way you could have hit me.
Storch, You know I don't flame you anymore, but just in the positioning of the planes, me and all my dueling friends would call that a cheap shot! If that's all you could get, then you for sure didn't outfly him, and shooting at that angle means that you weren't confident enough to outfly him. No winner there!:aok
-
Originally posted by storch
the DA is different than the other arenas but the lessons learned can come in handy in a furball if you maintain even a modicum of SA.
exactly right!:aok
-
Here goes a few vids. Agent360 had a bad day hes a better pilot. The other is me and mark owning eachother.:D These are both after i had gotten back from a long break. :aok These should give people the insight on the DAer's rules..
Linky http://www.speedyshare.com/638630780.html
-
will someone teach me how to duel? i dont know how:D
-
Originally posted by WMLute
Quick question.
If you in the DA doing a "formal" duel with a pilot using "standard" DA rules and you agree to a 3k merge, is it acceptable for a player to climb to 6k then dive down to 3k before icon range?
Opinions?
(EDIT: there is a backstory here which I will hold off on for now)
**** no.
-
Originally posted by betty
will someone teach me how to duel? i dont know how:D
Stop flying the Typh for starters:D
-
I'll accept the critique but from my view he took cannon all over the cockpit. as I said it was an inpromptu fight and fun for me. I didn't HO him but got a nice front quarter shot.
I can't view the film I have been having problems for about one week now where if I down films to AH viewer it makes my system crash.
-
Originally posted by storch
I don't film anything, It's a game and of zero importance.
Yet you sure do post about it quite a bit.
-
Originally posted by Murdr
Yet you sure do post about it quite a bit.
posting is fun
-
Originally posted by storch
I'll accept the critique but from my view he took cannon all over the cockpit. as I said it was an inpromptu fight and fun for me. I didn't HO him but got a nice front quarter shot.
I can't view the film I have been having problems for about one week now where if I down films to AH viewer it makes my system crash.
Storch, Me and Lute dueled a few yesterday as well. There was a fight we had where I was above him but he had the E to pull up into me, as he came up I had a split second shot right at the top of his engine. The problem with that is, he could have just as easily pulled just a little harder and we'd have been shooting each other in the face. Good duelers know when this is coming, they try to avoid ramming and head-on shots, so many times one will move out of the way of the ram, therefore exposing themselves to a "front 1/4" just for the sake that there was no clear winner as they came around face to face. I shot him anyway and took off his tail as he passed. lol Lute said, "hey", and immediately I laughed and said srry that was a cheapo. I sure as hell wasn't going to say, "Well I shot you in the tail so how could it have been a HO?" That is what most HO'ers say after you try to avoid their HO.
If it is all for fun, you would definitely not want to take that shot. The fun is truly outflying your opponent for a shot that is unquestionable. Now, from what I saw, it was to close to a head-on, for a friendly duel. Now if you completely hate the guy and you just want to "Win" any way you can. Then film your duels and take any shot you can. Many times that I have encountered someone taking a real close 'front 1/4" shot, it's usually because they have chose an angle that if they don't make that extreme front 1/4 shot, they are about to be saddled up on after the next turn....ie out of last resort! If you will remember, I told Berkats to let it go, and just have some fun, it was saturday! If it is just for fun, one cheap shot shouldn't make that big of a deal, just re-plane and try to own them a little more next time!:aok
-
Originally posted by Slash27
Stop flying the Typh for starters:D
ur just jealous u can fly it poopyhead! hehe
-
Originally posted by betty
ur just jealous u can fly it poopyhead! hehe
I take pride in not being able to drive that tub.:D
-
Originally posted by WMLute
(more backstory)
What this player would do was climb to @ 5-6k while out of icon range, then dive down to 3k before icon range, off merge, spiral climb, then use their E advantage to keep the fight going up. Then they would do a spiral climb, and keep doing said gentle climb untill you finally ran out of E and would break off, or nose down.
We are talking about 5-10 min. of constant near flat turn gentle climbing, using their initial E advantage to stay just above you. They did no other offensive maneuver.
If you do break off and show them your 6 to try to get a "fight" started they would make a pass, and when/if they missed, start the whole process again.
No other move was used.
this is exactly true!
i 'dueled' the same guy in spitV. we merged and i instantly pulled lead for a top down cockpit shot on his wide E retaining turn.
I missed any form of killshot and the fight carried on.
Then....it was about 5 minutes of my chasing him round a flat turn just below and slower than him. there was no way i could pull lead for a shot but there was also no way he could turn any advantage.
essentially we were going to do this turn untill e ran out of fuel.
i consider this tactic to be simply running in a circle, or running in the vertical. IE: having a large E advantage but lacking the skill to convert it into an actual fight winning advantage.
In the end, i typed out to this player:
"WTH is this all about, lets remerge"
and i broke off the turn and went level, started typing again to suggest what might be done to help him win from that possition, and proptly got shot down from dead 6 oclk at 400 yrds.
i didnt care, i laughed about it and the guy then said he OWNED skyrock, Lute, Kjetil and batfink.
he refused to fight again.
whos fault was it that i lost?
totaly mine.
who cares that he won?
nobody.
I happened to film the engagement, seeing as the other guys had been having trouble with him cheating.
MERGE SPEED level at 3,000ft:
batfink - 295mph
playerX - 368mph
tells you something, especialy if you look up what the spit5's max level speed at 3k is.
*whipes my hands of it*
-
bat was this guy HawkWindX? Ive got a film of him running to his ack in the DA
-
dont really care if he is windex, or really who anyone is, or used to be.
this guy flew pretty good, he wasnt half bad at all. his attitude was pathetic. I pm'ed him to ask why he was acting up and he said he had intentionaly dragged WMlute in here so he could try and wind(ex) him up and tell him he sucked. he claimed to be a close friend of all at HTC. his only intention was grief.
saddest part is that with a better attitude he could have quickly earned respect for cartoon skillz and maybe even made a freind or two.
-
Originally posted by storch
I'll accept the critique but from my view he took cannon all over the cockpit. as I said it was an inpromptu fight and fun for me. I didn't HO him but got a nice front quarter shot.
I can't view the film I have been having problems for about one week now where if I down films to AH viewer it makes my system crash.
Dude look at the pics.
If that's not a HO shot, then I'm not sure what a HO is.
'Front quarter shot'....gimme a break.
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
he claimed to be a close friend of all at HTC. his only intention was grief
IF (and that's a huuuuuge if) Dale is friends w/ WindX (or whomever this was, dont' really care) i'm sure he'll be glad to know he's trying to cause grief amongst his player base and dropping HiTechs name while doing it. (nice "friend")
Anger? Upset? Grieved? Naw... Pitty was the strongest emotion I felt in all my dealings w/ this person.
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
3K is just that.
Diving down from 6K to gain all that E isn't in the spirit of the duel to me.
agreed....sounds like the move of someone who likes to win.....even if he has to "stretch" the truth a little:noid
personally, i thought it should be a climb to agreeed upon alt., hten a little bit of time to build e, then merge.....then from there....all's fair? i don't fly in da too much, but that's my understanding of it
<>
john
-
Well guys, here's my thoughts, for what they're worth.
Storch did two things that could be seen as not exactly fair and square.
First fight: BearKats was off the end of the runway only 15 to 20 seconds when Storch turned for the merge. Let the other guy get some speed before you head in. BearKat should have called "No Joy" and not maneuvered. By maneuvering, BearKats accepted the fight.
Second fight: Storch was flying in the weeds on his next merge, which hides the aircraft icon. It's very hard to pick out a dot on the landscape full of dots (shrubs, bushes and the like). Storch's icon didn't appear until he was between 3.0k and 2.5k distant. Meanwhile, he could see BearKat's icon from D6.0. If done on purpose, I'd call that trying to steal an advantage. Stay out of the weeds. Diving to get below the other guy is fine, just begin from an altitude where your icon is visible.
As to the HO... Yeah it was an HO from either view in the film. However, I can't fault Storch as BearKats set up the situation by not getting his 109 reversed in a timely fashion and turned nose on to Storch. Storch could not know that BearKats would not fire, so he fired. I don't think BearKats realized that he was in a pure HO until too late. As they say in racing, "It was a racing incident".
As to the flying, BearKats clearly doesn't fly 109s very often. He was having a very hard time, stalling repeated times and hanging at the top of a climb too often. First, 109s turn better left than right. Much better. Second, when slow in the vertical (especially with flaps out), the 109s resist rolling against torque (to the right). It's almost always faster to roll left. If you must roll right, pull back the throttle and use full right rudder. Otherwise, you'll hang their like a big, immobile target.
Storch was much smoother than BearKats, who wasted several good opportunities by hamfisting the 109 around. 109s like smooth control inputs, especially when flying a high AoA or under significant G loading. Slower, deliberate inputs are always better. Snipers have a saying, "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Think about that some.
BearKats, if you want to practice in the 109s, stop by the TA Tuesday or Wednesday evening after 9 PM Eastern. I suggest flying the 109G-2. It turns nearly a well as the 109F, but tends to be a bit more difficult to fly at the limits. Master the G-2 and the F model becomes easy mode. It takes some time in the 109s to learn when to use the flaps, how much flap to use, when to get them back up, and when to slow down some to avoid auto-retract. The occasional wobble is expected, but you should avoid harsh inputs in general. Besides, nothing conserves E better than not loading the airframe more than needed.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Husky01
bat was this guy HawkWindX? Ive got a film of him running to his ack in the DA
If HawkWindX is the guy, then that's WindX.
ack-ack
-
I saw a cockpit and fired and once again neither of those fights were "duels" you guys need to get girlfriends or something sheesh.
-
lolROFLMAO,
That third film that avaro posted was hilarious. lolz!111
That Neo guy.... omg hehehehe
Funniest film I've ever seen.
-
Originally posted by Widewing
As to the flying, BearKats clearly doesn't fly 109s very often. He was having a very hard time, stalling repeated times and hanging at the top of a climb too often. First, 109s turn better left than right. Much better. Second, when slow in the vertical (especially with flaps out), the 109s resist rolling against torque (to the right). It's almost always faster to roll left. If you must roll right, pull back the throttle and use full right rudder. Otherwise, you'll hang their like a big, immobile target.
Storch was much smoother than BearKats, who wasted several good opportunities by hamfisting the 109 around. 109s like smooth control inputs, especially when flying a high AoA or under significant G loading. Slower, deliberate inputs are always better. Snipers have a saying, "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Think about that some.
BearKats, if you want to practice in the 109s, stop by the TA Tuesday or Wednesday evening after 9 PM Eastern. I suggest flying the 109G-2. It turns nearly a well as the 109F, but tends to be a bit more difficult to fly at the limits. Master the G-2 and the F model becomes easy mode. It takes some time in the 109s to learn when to use the flaps, how much flap to use, when to get them back up, and when to slow down some to avoid auto-retract. The occasional wobble is expected, but you should avoid harsh inputs in general. Besides, nothing conserves E better than not loading the airframe more than needed.
My regards,
Widewing
Im in such a habit of flying the P47 flying something like the 109 is almost completely different as you can clearly tell from the film I couldn't snapstal struggled in the rolls and loops what more or less fighting the plane then storch.
Ty for the invitation and I will stop by.
-
I feel that way in the Jug. Every other plane I feel great in, but the Jug feels different, especially in rolling scissors.
-
Originally posted by Fianna
I feel that way in the Jug. Every other plane I feel great in, but the Jug feels different, especially in rolling scissors.
I feel at home in it :)
-
This topic kinda reminds me of the good ole "Waste ammo before the merge" in essence of being lighter..
I've seen some awkward techniques, your's as well Lute... And your situation especially, is unacceptable.
And as someone posted earlier it's not a HO after initial merge if I can turn faster than you and get that early opportunity to blow you out of the sky. Even though you may not agree, that's the way it's always been in the virtual skies of Aces High.
-
Originally posted by WldThing
This topic kinda reminds me of the good ole "Waste ammo before the merge" in essence of being lighter..
I've seen some awkward techniques, your's as well Lute... And your situation especially, is unacceptable.
And as someone posted earlier it's not a HO after initial merge if I can turn faster than you and get that early opportunity to blow you out of the sky. Even though you may not agree, that's the way it's always been in the virtual skies of Aces High.
heyas wildthng, gimme shout when your on again, we'll go a few in DA. I think I need to knock off some rust too!:aok
Mark
-
I'm far far from the best "dueler" {or stick in general} commenting here so I'm trying to word this carefully:) . To me your assessing your 2nd "move" while your merging. Often I see the "other guy" tightening up a losing scenario to "force" a HO. Now normally I'll convert to an E fight and I'll take the fight out of plane and up to suck whatever E the guy has left...since its actually a "safer" fight vs the joust. On the other hand if your facing a really good stick then your caught in a catch 22...is he really slightly out of plane...is he looking to "sucker" an attempted HO...is he looking to one time you on a crossing FQ shot as he forces a rolling vertical scissors?
Once you get beyond the initial merge all this BS (and thats what I consider it) simply is forcing a guy to fight someone elses way. Now all that being said Bat and I fly our "duels" .303 or 7mm only...that eliminates all this and forces a "saddle up" kill. If we fly with all guns then we both knowthe difference between "a FQ shot" and one that isnt...often we fly them either way since often one or both of us is "giving" a FQ snapshot in exchange for a positional advantage...if the other guy always passes on that shot and you are in fact actually giving a good look then you get hosed....so I always tell Bat if its there take it...or how do I know I messed it up that badly?
Now this is far from the original question...that conduct is simply bush league. However I never let that bother me. I'll give anyone 3k on me and it makes zero difference in the outcome 90% of the time. Very few people are going to beat me because they have alt...and I'm going to beat very few folks for that reason. God knows it doesnt help me with blukitty (or a few others). It simply isnt a duel however and if you expect an "even" fight you'll make a mistake since your not reading it as a neg E defense...
-
Only been in the DA twice/3 times, once I came across Creton- good guy and a good stick- he pwned me in secs, second time I came across zipcode guy, went level etc, his mate sneaks up, shoots me, damaged the elevator, zipcode guy then puts a few rounds in and he gets the "kill"
Gave the DA a miss after that.
-
These are the basic rules of dueling as i know them.
Set merge altitude. If it's 3k, then you can not go above that altitude until after the first merge.
Once in icon range you can dive as low as you want for speed.
The first merge is guns cold.
After the first merge, all rules are gone.
I used to not take the "ho" or deflection shot on the 2nd merge, but lost many duels because of it, so now i do. Seemed like every time i would hold fire, i'd end up with a pilot wound, or smoked engine, or lost wing, because my opponent didn't hesitate to take the shot.