Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on July 21, 2007, 05:46:48 PM
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I know many of you have sent me emails and private messages asking me for a copy of my stick scale. I do apologize for not posting them sooner but it is pretty damn hard to modify the stick scaling manually like you used to be able to do in AH1. In fact, it's too much trouble to go through. It would take too much time to create a walkthrough that explains how to modify your joystick setting manually and most likely will just end up confusing players.
So, I took the easy way out and took screenshots of my stick scale for elevator and ailerons. Don't need to scale rudders or throttle.
Click on the below link to download the screenshots of my stick scale. If anyone needs additional help in fine tuning, please feel free to sent me a private message.
Stick Scale Screenshots (http://www.speedyshare.com/625941950.html)
ack-ack
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It's interesting that you have a linear scaling when so many say that its a no-no and chose a more exponential curve. Have you tried both ways, and if so, what are your thoughts on each way?
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In AH1 where they had a graphical representation of the stick scale, the curve was very similiar to the curve of a longbow. IMO, that's the only place you should see a curve but the sliders themselves were the same settings as those in the screenshot.
With those that set their sliders to form an exponential curve, I guess the usefulness would depend on what you fly and how you fly. If you like to turn fight, especially at or near stall speeds and want a stick scale that helps minimize the nose bounce then I recommend scaling your stick like mine.
ack-ack
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Those pics seem to be showing the default settings no? (10,20,30...etc)
Whenever I use those settings I get the "Dont move controls so rapidly" with my Cyborg evo.
Guess I'll just have to carry on experimenting with my scaling.
Thanks anyway!:aok
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Nope, not default.
try adjusting the deadband and dampen sliders and see if that works.
ack-ack
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I've used AKAKs stick scaling for several years & feel that they are the best for my flying. Try them.
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I posted a thread in Jan. 02 under a diff name and still use the same settings that were given to us by Lephturn and AKAK. Upon coming back to AH in June 07 I immediately tried to set them back up from memory but these #'s made it easy. I wasn't to far off, now I just got to tweak it a little to suit me better. Can't look at the pics because they expired. been up for 74 hrs or so it says.
It's a great starting point fellas
Thanks again AKAK.
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At the time I didn't realize that the file host had a time limit as too how long your file will be hosted so I made another thread that explains how to manually edit the stick config files to adjust the scaling.
Also, thanks.
Here you go beaston, this is the scale that I use for my stick.
Just open your stick config file in your AH2 settings folder (be sure to back it up before editing) and copy and paste these lines over the ones in the config file.
Roll
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
Pitch
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
Yaw
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
In each of your config files for your controllers, just look for the line that will say "Axis # Roll/Pitch/Yaw". Below those lines, there will be numbers similiar to the ones above. Those are your stick scale numbers. Just copy and paste the above numbers and save your config file. Hope it helps.
Hope this helps.
ack-ack
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I looked for my stick config file and couldn't find one in any of the AH folders. I did a search for stick.* and found a couple of outlook files with the name stick.cfg. They are Microsoft outlook config files and can't be openend. There is no stick.cfg in any AH folder. Can anyone tell me I should find the folder or if it has a different name.
I wanted to compare my settings with Ack-Acks but obviouly ende up frustrated.
Thanks
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Open that file with wordpad and you should have no problems reading it. Then copy and save that file to your desktop and caopy and paste Ackacks #'s where they belong.
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Mystery solved, maybe. For anyone trying to do this. The file is probably not named stick.cfg. Mine is named logitechwingmanforce3dusb.jsm becuase I am using a Logitech stick (Actually it's a CH stick but that's another story). It's a .jsm file, not a .cfg file. It is in the settings folder in the AH program folders.
It appears the file is named after the type of stick you are using. what I dont understand is that there seem to be three lines for pitch and three for roll.
Here is the first half of the file:
Logitech WingMan Force 3D USB
4,15
Y axis
0,32410,65535,0.082000,0.172000,0.250000
AXIS,PITCH,0,1
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
AXIS,PITCH,0,1
0.10,0.20,0.30,0.40,0.50,0.60,0.70,0.80,0.90,1.00
AXIS,PITCH,0,1
0.10,0.20,0.30,0.40,0.50,0.60,0.70,0.80,0.90,1.00
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
X axis
0,32022,65535,0.090000,0.180000,0.250000
AXIS,ROLL,0,1
0.45,0.49,0.53,0.57,0.62,0.67,0.73,0.83,0.93,1.00
AXIS,ROLL,0,1
0.10,0.20,0.30,0.40,0.50,0.60,0.70,0.80,0.90,1.00
AXIS,ROLL,0,1
0.10,0.20,0.30,0.40,0.50,0.60,0.70,0.80,0.90,1.00
I plugged in Ack-Acks numbersin the forst pitch and roll lines. I opened the games and the sliders had changed to match the numbers.
Does anyone know what the other two pitch and roll lines are for?
I want to make sure something isn't messed up.
Thanks
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my guess would be that your looking at the 3 modes you can set your stick for in the game.
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Pretty good guess. I should have thought of that. :o
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man im using this scale now with my saitek 290 and it killed all the nose bounce and im not tweeking as bad on the rudder when i pull lead so my nose dosnt skew.
my gunery thanks you lol
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So do I have to go into this .jsm or whatever to put these numbers, or do I do it in game?
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If you want to use the numbers you have to paste them into the jsm file. You can set up your scaling in the map controllers advanced screen but the numbers don't show there.
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Cool thanks. Do these numbers help reduce bounce riding the edge, and at high speeds?
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Nose bounce is elevator function, so yes.
I can't think of any reason to not have a 1:1 ratio of stick throw to control surface deflection for ailerons. The subjective term "agility" of an aircraft is directly proportional to roll rate, so I have aileron sliders all the way to the top. Try it and you'll see a difference. You can always change it to anything you want if you prefer to inhibit your roll in the initial stages of throw. Why you want to inhibit roll would be a mystery known only to you... :)
Remember that the type of aircraft, type of fights and your method of flying all play a part in determining your stick settings. These are AKAK's settings and he flies only one aircraft, generally only one way, so it is not a cure-all or right for everyone. There are people who fly with all sliders all the way to the top, because they have the smoothness to fly it that way. There are others who fly well with default settings.
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yea i think im going to go back to no scaling with alerions, though it did make it easyier when i was slow and it takes exact alieron input to keep from stalling a wing and fliping, but when fast it was limiting me a little
big differnce in the 190d
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the link has no file to download. Do you have it anywhere else?
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I'm one of those who has all the sliders lined up right across the top, for all my controls. I personally don't like any scaling at all, as I feel it leads (me at least) to training myself to overcontrol. I tried it, and found it be detrimental to my flying.
Basically, the scaling makes your stick less sensitive at low throws, but still gives you full deflection at full throw. That means your stick is mushy and insensitive near center, but gets more authoritative/sensitive as you near the limits of your joystick throw. So you can (and must!) move your stick quickly near center for small inputs, but must slow down your inputs as you give more stick. A small movement near center gives very little effect, but that same small movement with more throw will give a large effect!
IMO, it leads to less refined control across the whole range, because the amount of control you will be inputting varies. A 10% movement of your stick won't give you 10% additional control surface throw. It'll give you less than that at first, but more than 10% later. How can that be a good thing?
Sounds like a great recipe for frustration and nose bounce to me, but that's just my opinion...
By putting your sliders all up at the top, 5% stick throw gives you 5% control surface movement. 25% stick= 25% control surface movement. 75% gives you 75%. Pretty simple and straightforward. Need a little throw? Give a little stick movement...
By putting your sliders on a gradual scale, a 5% stick movement might yield a 2% control surface throw. A 25% might give you 10-13% throw. 50% will give you LESS THAN 50%. Great, you can (and must) move your stick rapidly with little initial effect. Now what?
Now, when you need "just a Little more", you're going to get a LOT more instead. That's because 100% stick is still going to give you 100% control surface movement. So at some point you need to make up for what you've lost, and that means that at some point an additional 25% stick movement will eventually give you MORE THAN 25% control surface movement.
When is that likely to affect you? When you have medium-high control surface throw (as in a slow stall-fight, especially when you need just a bit more elevator to get a shot, but not quite so much that you break over the edge and stall). That's precisely when you need fine, predictable control, and (thanks to scaling) precisely when you WON'T get it!
It may work for some people. I guess I see it differently. If it works for AKAK, I see it like this- AKAK is able to get decent control even though he's handicapped himself by scaling his stick. Maybe that's not a bad thing, especially for me, hehe! I see it a lot like I see Stall Limiter- best when I don't use it, and the other guy does.
Again- I freely admit to being opinionated.
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Again- I freely admit to being opinionated.
A lot depends on the stick a player is using also. Some sticks will inherently have problems with nose bounce without scaleing. It still comes down to what an individual feels comfortable with though.
Here's a previous thread on this topic where I posted mine http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,218269.0.html
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A lot depends on the stick a player is using also. Some sticks will inherently have problems with nose bounce without scaleing. It still comes down to what an individual feels comfortable with though.
Here's a previous thread on this topic where I posted mine http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,218269.0.html
I suppose you're right about that Murdr. I've really only tried two sticks (Saitek Cyborg, and Aitek X52), and have never seen anything I could call "nose bounce". I honestly don't even know exactly what is meant by that term.
The closest I've seen is what I consider "over-controlling"- but that's my problem, not the stick. That got much worse for me when I tried scaling. It went away when I got rid of the scaling. The next closest thing I've seen is when my stick starts spiking- I fix that by getting a new stick. I do fly with a "light hand" though, probably left over from flying RC as a kid.
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I've been trying it unscaled. Strangely, I'm not sure I notice much difference.. I assume just turning off scaling for a given axis does the same thing as sliding the sliders all the way up...
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What's the downside to 10% input = 10% output, etc.? I guess its just all personal preference though, as many have stated.
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Okay, I have been flying with the scaling turned off for a week or so now.
I think it has made it easier to make a small input correction when taking a shot in the air.
OTOH, it has made fine aim tuning in a tank harder...no big deal, just click the scaling back on.
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Okay, I have been flying with the scaling turned off for a week or so now.
I think it has made it easier to make a small input correction when taking a shot in the air.
OTOH, it has made fine aim tuning in a tank harder...no big deal, just click the scaling back on.
Can you turn on the scaling in one mode, i.e. GV mode, and have it off in the other mode? Or is it all or nothing?
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Can you turn on the scaling in one mode, i.e. GV mode, and have it off in the other mode? Or is it all or nothing?
You can set them separately under plane mode and vehicle mode.
Fred
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You can set them separately under plane mode and vehicle mode.
Fred
Perfect, I'll give it a whirl. Thanks.
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IF you are running CH gear, IF you wise in the ways of the force like akak, with good hands then by all means, give it a shot. However I have lost count of the number of people who have tried his setup, and end up back in the TA unable to fly. So do it wisely, backup your originals first!
Mtnman I don't agree with you on this concept.
"So you can (and must!) move your stick quickly near center for small inputs, but must slow down your inputs as you give more stick. "
But I can't think of an easy way to prove it one way or the other.
But I really don't move the stick any faster or slower.
The only time I think what your saying would actually happen is if you are trying to hold to an exact steady 3 Gee's.
I'll be the first to agree that setting scaling is NOT for everyone. If you have very good gear, several years in game, and good hands you can probably learn to do with out it. And probably benefit from doing so. With crisper faster responce's.
My problem is all the guys who are new to the game, who do NOT have CH gear, who do NOT have trained hands.
Who do NOT remember how to undo what they have done. Then end up in the TA begging me to fix it please.
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Found the .jsm file but when i opened stick.cfg the numbers akak gab were there but no roll pitch or yaw heading . whats up anyone know ?
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I use the same as Mtnman, really like the feel.