Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: zilla on July 22, 2007, 07:54:17 AM
-
I'll just come out and say it, the Tiger tank is obsolete. In a late war arena crawling with M-4s, Tigers are just a waste of time. I took out two Tigers at +1500 in one engagment. Single shots from the Shermans 17 pounder just about anywhere on the Tiger will kill or cripple the tank. The ricochet that you get from a slightly miss placed shot with a Panzer is a thing of the past with the Sherman. Oh sure, the Tiger is still the best choice against a bomb attack, but Tank v Tank it is finished. Perk the Sherman? Yes!
-
Originally posted by zilla
I can't spawncamp anymore. :cry :cry :cry :cry
:lol :lol
Bronk
-
Sure you can. Just use an M-4. The front armor will probably give you two or three 2nd chances.
-
I'd like to know where you're getting YOUR Shermans from. Every time I've rolled one out I've died on the first hit after putting 4-5 rounds in a Panzer's rear at moderate range
-
Current stats:
Tiger vs. Sherman: k/d 1.91
Sherman vs Panzer: k/d 2.11
Tiger vs Panzer: k/d 5.49
Total kills
Panzer: 16266 k/d 0.81
Sherman: 33301 k/d 1.36
Tiger: 9510 k/d 3.29
-
:rofl
The Tiger is just no longer invulnerable to anything but another Tiger. Ain't it a shame?
-
tigers r garbage now, yes i have 2 agree... i got hit wit 1 M-4 shell... 1 hit kill.. and it hit me in the front not on turret or fuel tank engine and so on...
-bigbob1
-
how can it be garbage when it still has a k/d of 3.29?
-
I would die pretty quickly no matter what plane or GV I decide to use...:o
-
The Panzer is definitely obsolete.
The Tiger and Sherman are about equal.... The Tiger isn't feared anymore.
-
Originally posted by Fianna
The Panzer is definitely obsolete.
The Tiger and Sherman are about equal.... The Tiger isn't feared anymore.
Tiger & Sherman are no equals. The Tiger is to the Sherman what the Sherman is to the Panzer. In both cases roughly a 2-1 superiority
-
The Tiger is a perked sherman...I've hit M4s countless times in a tiger, nothing...but if I spawn a Tiger, I get hit/killed 1 shot.
-
Originally posted by Spikey
The Tiger is a perked sherman...I've hit M4s countless times in a tiger, nothing...but if I spawn a Tiger, I get hit/killed 1 shot.
Oh, happened to me too. But on the average the Tiger is still superior, especially at longer ranges. See numbers above!
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Tiger & Sherman are no equals. The Tiger is to the Sherman what the Sherman is to the Panzer. In both cases roughly a 2-1 superiority
As far as tank vs tank combat goes, they're equals. Each consistently gets 1 shot hits on the other.
-
Have to disagree. Up to about 1.5 depends who hits first. Any farther out tiger has an advantage.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Fianna
As far as tank vs tank combat goes, they're equals. .
They are not. The stats prove you are wrong.
While the Sherman is a dangerous foe to the Tiger and capable off killing a Tiger with one shot (depending on range & placement!), the Tiger is FAR more dangerous to the Sherman
Personal experiences are a quite subjective matter:
Tour 87: K/D 1.75
Tiger I has 2891 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1651 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 88: K/D 1.77
Tiger I has 3360 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1898 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 89: K/D 1.71
Tiger I has 2869 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1677 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 90: K/D 1.90
Tiger I has 1825 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 962 Kills of Tiger I
-
Originally posted by redman555
tigers r garbage now, yes i have 2 agree... i got hit wit 1 M-4 shell... 1 hit kill.. and it hit me in the front not on turret or fuel tank engine and so on...
-bigbob1
First off, the M4 we have does not fire teh standard 75mm round the normal M4 Sherman used to fire. We have the British Firefly version, it had a 17 pounder as a main gun. It was quite capable of killing a Tiger I with a shot to the front armor over 1,000 meters away using regular APC rounds.
Just be thankful the Firefly isn't using the more advanced APCBC and APDS rounds which were capable of taking out a Tiger I from over 2,000 meters.
So, if the Firefly wsa quite capable of taking out a Tiger I at long distances in one shot, why shouldn't it be any different in game?
ack-ack
-
At least we can all agree that the T34 is obsolete and always has been.
-
Originally posted by Trikky
At least we can all agree that the T34 is obsolete and always has been.
Not in EW ;)
-
Originally posted by Lusche
They are not. The stats prove you are wrong.
While the Sherman is a dangerous foe to the Tiger and capable off killing a Tiger with one shot (depending on range & placement!), the Tiger is FAR more dangerous to the Sherman
Personal experiences are a quite subjective matter:
Tour 87: K/D 1.75
Tiger I has 2891 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1651 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 88: K/D 1.77
Tiger I has 3360 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1898 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 89: K/D 1.71
Tiger I has 2869 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1677 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 90: K/D 1.90
Tiger I has 1825 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 962 Kills of Tiger I
I believe that has more to do with the people in the vehicles, rather than the vehicles themselves.
-
Originally posted by Fianna
I believe that has more to do with the people in the vehicles, rather than the vehicles themselves.
In wich way? I don't see all the "better" gv drivers driving Tigers only (And if they did.. what reason would they have to take a Tiger anyway if it's perked but not better than a Firefly? ;) )
The K/D difference is way to high to be dependend on driver skill only - its similar to the Sherman vs Panzer k/D
-
Also take into account that nobody is going to up a Tiger to try and break a spawn camp. They'll up a couple thousand Shermans, though.
-
Originally posted by Lusche
They are not. The stats prove you are wrong.
While the Sherman is a dangerous foe to the Tiger and capable off killing a Tiger with one shot (depending on range & placement!), the Tiger is FAR more dangerous to the Sherman
Personal experiences are a quite subjective matter:
Tour 87: K/D 1.75
Tiger I has 2891 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1651 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 88: K/D 1.77
Tiger I has 3360 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1898 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 89: K/D 1.71
Tiger I has 2869 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 1677 Kills of Tiger I
Tour 90: K/D 1.90
Tiger I has 1825 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 962 Kills of Tiger I
the reason there aren't as many kills, is because of the fact that no one uses them anymore. :D
-
Originally posted by OOZ662
Also take into account that nobody is going to up a Tiger to try and break a spawn camp. They'll up a couple thousand Shermans, though.
Exactly. Perk it. :aok
-
Originally posted by Lusche
In wich way? I don't see all the "better" gv drivers driving Tigers only (And if they did.. what reason would they have to take a Tiger anyway if it's perked but not better than a Firefly? ;) )
The K/D difference is way to high to be dependend on driver skill only - its similar to the Sherman vs Panzer k/D
Because tigers are a lot sexier. I still look for an excuse to spawn a tiger, but I wont do it if I expect more than 2 M4s inbound. The chances just arent good.
PERK THE SHERMAN!!!
-
Originally posted by Serenity
Because tigers are a lot sexier. I still look for an excuse to spawn a tiger, but I wont do it if I expect more than 2 M4s inbound. The chances just arent good.
PERK THE SHERMAN!!!
if there is 1 guy camping the VH ill up a t34, kill him, land, grab a tiger.
if there are more than 1 ill up a t34, kill him land up another one...and so on.
You can kill them faster because you don't have to reload.
-
The tiger still has a slight advantage vs planes. The sherman is alot easyer to kill from the air than the tiger is. In tank vs tank ill rather take the sherman because it reloads and turns its turret faster.
-
I believe I saw somewhere that perks will become a factor with the Sherman when they get around to adding a perked loadout system.
-
The Sherman turret does traverse faster than the Tiger but the reload seem to be a little longer than a Tiger. Still it is much faster than the 2 week T34 reload. The T-34 still has it's uses. The sloped armor and higher speed causes other tanks to expend more time killing you and can allow your buddies a shot or two at them. I think that the Panzer has become little more than a T34 with a better gun, and lesser armor. I have stopped taking Panzers out when Shermans are available.
-
when does school start again?
-
I heard it was 40 days (in texas?) yesterday so start counting.
-
Is the Firefly modeled with the gyroscopic main gun or was those only features on standard US M4 Shermans?
ack-ack
-
i think the tiger should cost less but thats cause i like it better
mostimes im at 2.0 or more in the tiger.love the sherman then 1 hit 1 kill most times.
bad spot for the tiger is up close were sherman is strongest
much better vision out of the m-4 and better abilty to move keeps me on my toes and motor shut off in my tiger
in open terrain at distance m-4 will not normally take down tiger without 3 or 4 shots/best combo is 1 tiger 2 shermans i think.
panzer seems more obsolete to me than the tiger
i would like to see the better russian tank tho
i cant think of its name right now it was comparible to the king tiger.
tnx jeff
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
I heard it was 40 days (in texas?) yesterday so start counting.
:(
-
Originally posted by zilla
I'll just come out and say it, the Tiger tank is obsolete. In a late war arena crawling with M-4s, Tigers are just a waste of time. I took out two Tigers at +1500 in one engagment. Single shots from the Shermans 17 pounder just about anywhere on the Tiger will kill or cripple the tank. The ricochet that you get from a slightly miss placed shot with a Panzer is a thing of the past with the Sherman. Oh sure, the Tiger is still the best choice against a bomb attack, but Tank v Tank it is finished. Perk the Sherman? Yes!
Tiger isnt obsolete... its just the people that use them that are obsolete :D
I have myself taken on 4 Shermans from 1500+ and win then have 2 Shermans kill me at 1300+. so im saying that its not the tank but the person in the driver's and gunner's seat
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Is the Firefly modeled with the gyroscopic main gun or was those only features on standard US M4 Shermans?
ack-ack
the M4 didnt have the gyroscopic main gun, the gun was small enough that the gun didnt move as much. idt any WWII tank besides the Comet had a gyroscopic main gun if im wrong plz correct me :)
-
Originally posted by Ace8765
the M4 didnt have the gyroscopic main gun, the gun was small enough that the gun didnt move as much. idt any WWII tank besides the Comet had a gyroscopic main gun if im wrong plz correct me :)
The M4 Sherman had a main-gun Rand gyro stabilizer that allowed it to fire on the run. It had it from the get go and was the first tank to feature it.
Question that I haven't been able to find an answer on is if the Firefly was equipped with one.
ack-ack
-
I've seen references to the Sherman having gyro stabilizers, which kind of surprises me as the M4 was intended and designed for infantry fire support; and not as a tank destroyer like the M10 Wolverine or M18 Hellcat or a heavier tank like the M26 Pershing which were expected to engage other tanks.
Of course, a 1940's gyro stabilizer is not going to be rock steady like a modern one, and the terrain is not nearly as roughly modeled in the game as it would appear in real life, so as a designed feature in a WWII AIR combat simulator, it's a wash.
IOW: if you modeled the gyro stabilizer, you'd have to model more accurate terrain, to include things like slick muddy surfaces.
Tiger definitely no longer the king of the battlefield. Still useful at long range and on the run, but if sitting still, and closer into the Shermans, it's often going to lose. Vs enemy aircraft, it still tends to hold it's own well.
-
Originally posted by tedrbr
Tiger definitely no longer the king of the battlefield. Still useful at long range and on the run, but if sitting still, and closer into the Shermans, it's often going to lose. Vs enemy aircraft, it still tends to hold it's own well.
Yup. When a Port or vehicle field is suddenly flooded with air cons, I take a Tiger, not an Ostwind.
-
Originally posted by tedrbr
I've seen references to the Sherman having gyro stabilizers, which kind of surprises me as the M4 was intended and designed for infantry fire support; and not as a tank destroyer like the M10 Wolverine or M18 Hellcat or a heavier tank like the M26 Pershing which were expected to engage other tanks.
It was put in the Sherman to allow it to fire on the run whether in support of infantry or against other tanks.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It was put in the Sherman to allow it to fire on the run whether in support of infantry or against other tanks.
Still, as it was intended for fire support for infantry, essentially a moving pill box with MG and 75mm to reduce defenses, the idea of firing on the move in that role outruns the ground troops you are supporting. But, it was supposedly built into the original design. Just didn't expect that design philosophy that early in the war.
Air Cav!
-
Does anyone know if the Firefly retained the gyrostabilizer?
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Does anyone know if the Firefly retained the gyrostabilizer?
ack-ack
I will see if I can find a reference, but my recollection is that the equipment was removed (along with the US provided gun) during the conversion process.
The 17lbr was a very heavy gun, so I doubt it would function properly regardless.
-
They had to shoehorn that gun into the Sherman's turret too, didn't they? On it's side or some such. Just a vague recollection, I may be thinking of another tank.
-
Originally posted by Lusche
Current stats:
Tiger vs. Sherman: k/d 1.91
Sherman vs Panzer: k/d 2.11
Tiger vs Panzer: k/d 5.49
Total kills
Panzer: 16266 k/d 0.81
Sherman: 33301 k/d 1.36
Tiger: 9510 k/d 3.29
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of those Tiger kills are coming from MW where it is still quite formidable, facing only the Panzer and the T-34. I see a LOT of Tigers in use in MW, almost none in LW.
They need to either reduce the perk price of the Tiger or perk the Sherman.
-
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of those Tiger kills are coming from MW where it is still quite formidable, facing only the Panzer and the T-34. I see a LOT of Tigers in use in MW, almost none in LW.
.
The activity in MW is way too low to get such high numbers. And all current 1913 kills of Shermans are from LW of course, so do the approximately additional 600 kills on planes only enabled in LW.
I still do see a lot of Tigers in LW. More than 90% of all my "kills of Tigers" and "killed by Tiger" stem from both LW arenas
Edit: Some additional stats:
Kill distributions between tanks
Tour 86 (before introduction of Firefly)
Panzer IV 74%
T34 5%
Tiger 21%
Tour 89
Panzer IV 29%
Sherman VC 50%
T34 6%
Tiger 15%
Now if Tiger usage would now be restricted to mainly MW arena, the reduction in kills percentage would have been much higher, for the MW arena has usually only between 1% and 10% of the total MA population. But the Tiger lost only 29% of it's "kill share"
We can also clearly see that the biggest victim of the Firefly's introduction is the Panzer IV
-
Originally posted by tedrbr
Still, as it was intended for fire support for infantry, essentially a moving pill box with MG and 75mm to reduce defenses, the idea of firing on the move in that role outruns the ground troops you are supporting. But, it was supposedly built into the original design. Just didn't expect that design philosophy that early in the war.
Air Cav!
The M-3 for both its guns (37mm and 75mm) had it before the Sherman. (elevation only)
"Crews were firmly told not to use the stabilizer unless the tank was in motion."
From M4 Sherman
George Forty
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Does anyone know if the Firefly retained the gyrostabilizer?
ack-ack
it looks like it doesnt it? in the game i have hit tigers on the move while 1200+ away so i think so
in real life idk
-
WHY NOT PERK SHERMAN FIREFLIE THEN BRING IN THE AMERICAN SHERMAN NON PERKED STILL A SHERMAN BUT NOT AS GOOD GUN NON PERKED
-
Why not turn caps lock off?
Bronk
-
Originally posted by kennyhayes
WHY NOT PERK SHERMAN FIREFLIE THEN BRING IN THE AMERICAN SHERMAN NON PERKED STILL A SHERMAN BUT NOT AS GOOD GUN NON PERKED
WHY NOT TURN ON SPELL CHECKER.
-
I would like to see a light perk on the FireFly. Bring the base perk value in at about 50% of what the Tiger is. This would still allow for a lot of FireFly useage, but bring the Panzer back into the light of day also.
I would still love to see a T34/85 fit into the mix somewhere!!
-
Originally posted by Muskie6
I would like to see a light perk on the FireFly. Bring the base perk value in at about 50% of what the Tiger is. This would still allow for a lot of FireFly useage, but bring the Panzer back into the light of day also.
I would still love to see a T34/85 fit into the mix somewhere!!
Agreed.
-
Originally posted by Muskie6
I would like to see a light perk on the FireFly. Bring the base perk value in at about 50% of what the Tiger is. This would still allow for a lot of FireFly useage, but bring the Panzer back into the light of day also.
I would still love to see a T34/85 fit into the mix somewhere!!
Problem with perk vehicles is that they get screwed by forward spawns.
No one wants to lose the perks just because they can't land without
driving 20 miles back to base.
-
well u just got your wish, HT put a perkie on the sherman now
-
I saw that the sherman was perked for 4 points last night. This is good. Also the forward spawns have become easier to land at for me. I have landed kills in spots where I was sure I would get a ditch. I will have to check and see if my .ditchtiger cheat works with the sherman.:rofl
-
The Firefly should be perked anyway, it was a fairly rare tank compared to a standard sherman. The firefly's were feared by Tiger commanders and were a priority target. I don't feel the Firefly's gun is overly powerfull by any means, the 17 pounder was an excellent gun, pretty close to on par with the Panthers 75mm. One thing that should never happen is the Sherman shrugging off just about any hit from a Tiger's 88. A sherman hit by a tiger should be damaged or killed just about every time.
We really need a more standard sherman like a M4a3 76. IT's got a good gun, close to the performance of the 75mm L-48 in the latter panzer IV's, and can still kill a tiger at close range in a weak spot or with the hot rounds. Or just give us a Jagdpanther or Panther and I'll be very happy:D
Later
Big Rat